Ireland's "Peaceful Protestors" - Pest Control?

Timberrrrrrrr

Banjo String wrote: »

I never said you served up north, but I'm certain the British army did.

And what has that got to do with me or this subject? We're talking about so called protesters who are harassing and bullying workers in 2014 not what the British army did in another country 30 years ago, try stay on topic.

And it's hardly a personal attack, I just keep asking myself what would have someone's head so full of anger and rage that they keep on advocating protestors to be baton charged, pepper sprayed, and put on their backs and be handcuffed. Anyone would know that scenario would certainly do the gards no favours in areas they're working in.

Not sure where you are getting the "anger and rage" angle from but if that's what you see from words on a screen then maybe it's time to take a break. I advocate the Gardai taking a stronger stance against intimidating bullies and i believe the best way to do that is to be swift/firm/decisive and take no **** from them.

Want to protest peacefully? Fine by me.

Want to intimidate, harass and bully men going about their work, scream abuse and cause a public disturbance? Fine but you get told once to move along, If you refuse then you are arrested and if you resist then pepper spray/baton is used a s a persuader. Don't like how that works? Don't act the bollix then.

Then I remembered you had served with her majesties finest.

It all made sense.

What i said in my old account has nothing to do with this account, just because you have a bug bear against all things British does not give you the right to attack me personally and i will be bringing this to mod attention.

Banjo String

Dean0088 wrote: »

The organizers of these protests are almost exclusively hard left or republican groups. The career protesters (many of whom it's very easy to identify by name) are parts of these groups.

This is blatantly untrue. The vast majority of protest groups come from AAA, socialists, residents associations and other non political parties.

Yesterday, 2 of the countries largest trade unions came out in support of the protests also.

I know it would suit some people for your assumption to be true, but the evidence points otherwise.

Dean0088 wrote: »

I have old classmates and friends who have either traveled to England or gone up north to join the BA. It's a job. Anyone who displays any kind of harsh political views or keen interest in the issues of Northern Ireland will not get through the interview stage. Same goes for any force in Ireland and the UK - army, garda etc..

Are they on this thread calling for protestors to be put on their backs, handcuffed, baton charged or pepper sprayed?

Dean0088 wrote: »

Other than the fact that one of the contractor companies is from NI, I don't see how NI, the UK or anyone status as a BA soldier (past or present) is relevant.

You do. I've pointed it out several times now.

Dean0088 wrote: »

This is an Irish issue. I really think you were just trying to whip up support for your posts by highlighting another posters former role in the BA, seeing as many of the supporters of the protesters are extreme republican and, by extension, likely to target a BA solider's posts.

Well you attempted to line anyone up who doesn't support water charges as hard left dissident republican.

So you would think that tbh.

Fukuyama

Banjo String wrote: »

This is blatantly untrue. The vast majority of protest groups come from AAA, socialists, residents associations and other non political parties.

Yesterday, 2 of the countries largest trade unions came out in support of the protests also.

I know it would suit some people for your assumption to be true, but the evidence points otherwise.




Are they on this thread calling for protestors to be put on their backs, handcuffed, baton charged or pepper sprayed?



You do. I've pointed it out several times now.



Well you attempted to line anyone up who doesn't support water charges as hard left dissident republican.

So you would think that tbh.

You're consistently nit-picking any details from a particular post, or a posters personal life to avoid condemning scumbag behavior on the part of the protesters, which is the topic of this thread.

Not once in this thread has there been calls for the suppression of anti-government protesters. There has been calls for law and order among protesters, and the enforcement of such by gardaí. Nobody supports garda violence, they support a police force that doesn't treat those breaking the law with Extra-Special-Entitlement-Padded-Kid-Gloves (Patent Pending).

If your idea of protesting and conducting yourself in a legal, peaceful manner are mutually exclusive then I think your position is clear to any level-headed person reading this thread.

Nodin

Dean0088 wrote: »

You're consistently nit-picking any details from a particular post, or a posters personal life to avoid condemning scumbag behavior on the part of the protesters, which is the topic of this thread.

Not once in this thread has there been calls for the suppression of anti-government protesters. ..................

Ye reckon?

Should the guards not just wade in with batons, make a load of arrests (50+) and
be done for the day? Instead of just babysitting a bunch of idiots on a Tuesday
morning only for work to proceed at a snail's pace?

Dyr

I think the bould gene has been reading this thread and facepalming all week:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/theyre-decommissioning-democracy-30638890.html

MRnotlob606

pernicious disgusting protesters behaving like nazi wannabes.

Nodin

Dean0088 wrote: »

..................


I have old classmates and friends who have either traveled to England or gone up north to join the BA. It's a job. Anyone who displays any kind of harsh political views or keen interest in the issues of Northern Ireland will not get through the interview stage. Same goes for any force in Ireland and the UK - army, garda etc..
.

Absolutely."any kind of harsh political views or keen interest in the issues of northern Ireland".
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/sep/29/rangers-military

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/armed-forces-involvement-sectarian-rangers-protest-pr-disaster/6182

Fukuyama

Bambi wrote: »

I think the bould gene has been reading this thread and facepalming all week:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/theyre-decommissioning-democracy-30638890.html

That's the most retarded thing I've read in a long time.

Fukuyama

Nodin wrote: »

Absolutely."any kind of harsh political views or keen interest in the issues of northern Ireland".
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/sep/29/rangers-military

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/armed-forces-involvement-sectarian-rangers-protest-pr-disaster/6182

I'm not being pulled into an argument about whether there are idiots in the BA or not. However, you're mission to do so speaks volumes about your own affiliations and political ideals. I don't doubt there are racists, EDL members, xenophobes and anti-Irish soldiers in the BA. My point was that it's retarded to bring into question a poster's motivations simply because they were in the BA.

Unless they make remarks which indicate otherwise, their position in posting is that of an Irish citizen or resident who is entitled to comment on the behaviour of protesters and their own police force.

Banjo String

Dean0088 wrote: »

You're consistently nit-picking any details from a particular post, or a posters personal life to avoid condemning scumbag behavior on the part of the protesters, which is the topic of this thread.

If by 'nitpicking' you mean calling someone out who has repeatedly called for protestors to be baton charged, pepper sprayed, and in one case hoped for a woman to be thrown on her back and to be handcuffed, then I'm guilty as charged.

Dean0088 wrote: »

Not once in this thread has there been calls for the suppression of anti-government protesters.

Oh dear.

Dean0088 wrote: »

There has been calls for law and order among protesters, and the enforcement of such by gardaí. Nobody supports garda violence, they support a police force that doesn't treat those breaking the law with Extra-Special-Entitlement-Padded-Kid-Gloves (Patent Pending).

You're reading what you want to read. I'm on my phone atm, but I'll gladly point you towards the lads on this thread who very much say otherwise when I get home.

Dean0088 wrote: »

If your idea of protesting and conducting yourself in a legal, peaceful manner are mutually exclusive then I think your position is clear to any level-headed person reading this thread.

What does that even mean?

Nodin

Dean0088 wrote: »

I'm not being pulled into an argument about whether there are idiots in the BA or not. However, you're mission to do so speaks volumes about your own affiliations and political ideals. I don't doubt there are racists, EDL members, xenophobes and anti-Irish soldiers in the BA. My point was that it's retarded to bring into question a poster's motivations simply because they were in the BA..

But you stated, and I quote - "Anyone who displays any kind of harsh political views or keen interest in the issues of Northern Ireland will not get through the interview stage. Same goes for any force in Ireland and the UK - army, garda etc"

I'm just pointing out the holes in your plot.

Fukuyama

Banjo String wrote: »

If by 'nitpicking' you mean calling someone out who has repeatedly called for protestors to be baton charged, pepper sprayed, and in one case hoped for a woman to be thrown on her back and to be handcuffed, then I'm guilty as charged.

Oh dear.



You're reading what you want to read. I'm on my phone atm, but I'll gladly point you towards the lads on this thread who very much say otherwise when I get home.


What does that even mean?

Once again, you're deliberately choosing to ignore fundamental parts of the argument.

People are allowed to protest legally. The gardaí have not attached protests. Rather, they have walked into protests and tried to restore order - mostly by simply standing in a line to keep people away from IW workers, trucks etc... This is not suppression. This is a softly softly approach to crowd control.

Protestors have taken advantage and are displaying foul behavior. The gardaí are the national police force and a mine as much as they are anyone elses. I don't want to see videos of them being treated like dirt and almost afraid to make arrests because a bunch of entitled malcontents will throw a strop.

Your repeated assertions that gardaí are suppressing or are violent are laughable. The guards might as well be wearing bunny rabbit costumes they're that soft on protesters.

Ultimately, the protesters are trying to whip up a storm with these tactics but are preaching to their own small band of converted. The majority of people see this carry on and instantly back away from associating themselves with ULA, PbP etc... as a result, which is a shame because (even though I don't support them), it hinders full democratic debate among the electorate.

So you can cry about the gardaí suppressing the left all you want. In reality, the left cut their nose off to spite their face with their childish behaviour and foul mouths.

Nodin

Dean0088 wrote: »

Once again, you're deliberately choosing to ignore fundamental parts of the argument.

People are allowed to protest legally. The gardaí have not attached protests. Rather, they have walked into protests and tried to restore order - mostly by simply standing in a line to keep people away from IW workers, trucks etc... This is not suppression. This is a softly softly approach to crowd control.

..............

And what you want is suppression, eg

Should the guards not just wade in with batons, make a load of arrests (50+) and be done for the day? Instead of just babysitting a bunch of idiots on a
Tuesday morning only for work to proceed at a snail's pace?

Fukuyama

Nodin wrote: »

But you stated, and I quote - "Anyone who displays any kind of harsh political views or keen interest in the issues of Northern Ireland will not get through the interview stage. Same goes for any force in Ireland and the UK - army, garda etc"

I'm just pointing out the holes in your plot.

I've heard this from friends (particularly about the Defense Forces recruitment). It's standard advice to not mention anything political, radical or Northern Ireland etc... during the interviews. Not even small talk about the news or a little joke about the budget etc... Because they don't want anyone with an axe to grind whether they're for or against the government.

Obviously people get through, but given the lengths the BA and PDF go to to ensure they're non-political organisation, I think it's unfair to bring up a posters employment history with them particularly as the issue itself has nothing to do with NI, is completely dissimilar from the public order situations in NI in years gone by and in no way can be said to reflect a posters opinions on it.

People want to see the gardaí not turn their cheek when someone calls them a "cúnt" or squares up to them. Nobody is calling for the paras.

Banjo String

Dean0088 wrote: »

Once again, you're deliberately choosing to ignore fundamental parts of the argument.

People are allowed to protest legally. The gardaí have not attached protests. Rather, they have walked into protests and tried to restore order - mostly by simply standing in a line to keep people away from IW workers, trucks etc... This is not suppression. This is a softly softly approach to crowd control.

Protestors have taken advantage and are displaying foul behavior. The gardaí are the national police force and a mine as much as they are anyone elses. I don't want to see videos of them being treated like dirt and almost afraid to make arrests because a bunch of entitled malcontents will throw a strop.

Your repeated assertions that gardaí are suppressing or are violent are laughable. The guards might as well be wearing bunny rabbit costumes they're that soft on protesters.

Ultimately, the protesters are trying to whip up a storm with these tactics but are preaching to their own small band of converted. The majority of people see this carry on and instantly back away from associating themselves with ULA, PbP etc... as a result, which is a shame because (even though I don't support them), it hinders full democratic debate among the electorate.

So you can cry about the gardaí suppressing the left all you want. In reality, the left cut their nose off to spite their face with their childish behaviour and foul mouths.

I'll ask this.

Why are the gards intervening in a civil matter?

The residents of the estate have made it very clear that they do not want GMC Sierra to install meters in their estate.

Irish Water have made it clear, metered/unmetered it makes no difference, you will receive a bill regardless.

Simple answer please.

Why don't GMC Sierra relocate to an estate that wish to be metered?

Take your time. Try to see it from someone else's point of view.

Oh, and one final note. Their is only one side on this debate advocating violence. I haven't seen anyone wishing any harm on the gards.

Make of that what you will.

MRnotlob606

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

pernicious disgusting protesters behaving like nazi wannabes.

Nazi :mad:

This word is used too much these days, If you want to know what the word really means go speak to someone who survived a concentration camp.

Fukuyama

Nodin wrote: »

And what you want is suppression, eg

If a crowd is told to move onto a green area to protest, and doesn't do so after multiple attempts, then I think they should be arrested to discourage further "protests".

The gardaí are there to facilitate protests, not to allow any kind of carry on in residential areas just because 30 or so loud mouths realise they can ignore garda orders in big numbers.

There is no special, anti-protest law on the books here. This is simple Public Order offences.

When a protester is injured by traffic or hurts themselves around the construction areas, there'll be questions about why the gardaí didn't move the protest to a safer area.

Nodin

Dean0088 wrote: »

..........

People want to see the gardaí not turn their cheek when someone calls them a "cúnt" or squares up to them. Nobody is calling for the paras.

Some people do. Others seem to hanker for the days when the militia or hussars would be called out to deal with the offenders.

Fukuyama

Banjo String wrote: »

I'll ask this.

Why are the gards intervening in a civil matter?

The residents of the estate have made it very clear that they do not want GMC Sierra to install meters in their estate.

Irish Water have made it clear, metered/unmetered it makes no difference, you will receive a bill regardless.

Simple answer please.

Why don't GMC Sierra relocate to an estate that wish to be metered?

Take your time. Try to see it from someone else's point of view.

Oh, and one final note. Their is only one side on this debate advocating violence. I haven't seen anyone wishing any harm on the gards.

Make of that what you will.

The garda don't care whether water meters are installed here, Jupiter or not at all. The first few weeks of water meters went in with no trouble. It's only since workers have been entrapped, intimidated, threatened and otherwise stopped working that they were called in.

The Public Order act is not a civil matter. I'm no solicitor, but that's basic stuff.

You claim that "the residents" have unanimously decided to become their own enforcement group for their area, so the gardaí have to right to be there. Cop on. In every video, numbers of protester are between 30-50. Many of whom are not from the estates they protest in (they travel around). A small group do not speak for the majority.

The gardaí are this country's police force. They uphold criminal law which includes the Public Order Act. Nobody can opt out of that act, even entitled noisey protesters who claim to represent the people of Ireland. :rolleyes:

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

I'll ask this.

Why are the gards intervening in a civil matter?

The residents of the estate have made it very clear that they do not want GMC Sierra to install meters in their estate.

Irish Water have made it clear, metered/unmetered it makes no difference, you will receive a bill regardless.

Simple answer please.

Why don't GMC Sierra relocate to an estate that wish to be metered?

Take your time. Try to see it from someone else's point of view.

Oh, and one final note. Their is only one side on this debate advocating violence. I haven't seen anyone wishing any harm on the gards.

Make of that what you will.

I could not tell from any video I watched who were residents and who were outsiders. I think once a law has been enacted in the Oireachtas the concept of local democracy should not extend to each street or estate being able to opt out of what the law was passed to implement.

And I have never heard of any secret ballot in a residential area to test your assertion that residents have made it clear that they do not want meters.

Fukuyama

Nodin wrote: »

Some people do. Others seem to hanker for the days when the militia or hussars would be called out to deal with the offenders.

Idiots do.

Any normal person knows that repeated foul and abusive language to a garda should warrant an arrest because in order for a police force to police, they need respect. If I walked up to a garda and repeatedly called them a **** I'd expect to be arrested and charged .

This is not suppressing anyone's right to free speech, it's upholding the law.

This kind of anti-social behaviour has ruined many parts of Dublin and elsewhere and the gardaí are hamstrung by resources, the judiciary and political correctness from dealing with it. Just because it's being repackaged as a "protest" doesn't make it any less anti-social, intimidating and illegal.

Banjo String

Dean0088 wrote: »

The garda don't care whether water meters are installed here, Jupiter or not at all. The first few weeks of water meters went in with no trouble. It's only since workers have been entrapped, intimidated, threatened and otherwise stopped working that they were called in.

The Public Order act is not a civil matter. I'm no solicitor, but that's basic stuff.

You claim that "the residents" have unanimously decided to become their own enforcement group for their area, so the gardaí have to right to be there. Cop on. In every video, numbers of protester are between 30-50. Many of whom are not from the estates they protest in (they travel around). A small group do not speak for the majority.

The gardaí are this country's police force. They uphold criminal law which includes the Public Order Act. Nobody can opt out of that act, even entitled noisey protesters who claim to represent the people of Ireland. :rolleyes:

Using the rolleyes emoticon. Sophisticated.

I'll ask again.

rish Water have made it clear, metered/unmetered it makes no difference, you will receive a bill regardless. 

Simple answer please. 

Why don't GMC Sierra relocate to an estate that wish to be metered? 

I'll also throw this out here.

Oh, and one final note. Their is only one side on this debate advocating violence. I haven't seen anyone wishing any harm on the gards. 

You seem to keep missing it.

Fukuyama

Banjo String wrote: »

Using the rolleyes emoticon. Sophisticated.

I'll ask again.



I'll also throw this out here.



You seem to keep missing it.

I don't know what fantasy land you're living in, but when the democratically elected government of a country passes a law, it's not up to individual housing estates to decide whether or not they want to accept said law.

Furthermore, you seem to think that small groups of angry idiots represent entire housing estates which could contain 5,000+ people?

Finally, the gardaí don't take sides. Nobody is advocating limitless violence to put down anti-water meter protests. People are advocating that they gardaí up their tactics to handle protests which are unruly. Their first and only port of call so far has been to handle protesters with kid gloves.

If the gardaí were the police force of Fianna Gael, you'd have thought they wouldn't have cut their wages, allowances and reduced resources. This is not the policy of a government hell bent on creating a police state.

You repeat, again and again, that people who don't like to see anti-social protester and their behaviour, mere feet from their front door, are in support of a police state. The boring reality is that most people want to the law upheld, and those that repeatedly refuse to comply with all reasonable garda requests should be arrested and charged under the Public Order act.

I have addressed your points. Now I put a direct question to you:

State your opinion on the behaviour of protesters as seen in videos uploaded by the protesters themselves.

Dean0088

Dean0088 wrote: »

I don't know what fantasy land you're living in, but when the democratically elected government of a country passes a law, it's not up to individual housing estates to decide whether or not they want to accept said law.

Labour were elected under many promises which turned out to be lies. The democratic process has failed.

Fr. Ned

Dean0088 wrote: »

State your opinion on the behaviour of protesters as seen in videos uploaded by the protesters themselves.

How come you lads never put up video's of peaceful protests where there's no pushing or shoving and are generally good humoured?

Fukuyama

Deleted User wrote: »

Labour were elected under many promises which turned out to be lies. The democratic process has failed.

This isn't a political discussion. It's one about policing. And, as far as I can tell, the heartbeat of the nation hasn't risen to the point of rejecting the gardaí in favour of random mobs.

Fr. Ned

Deleted User wrote: »

Labour were elected under many promises which turned out to be lies. The democratic process has failed.

Democracy in this country is a joke anyway.
We can vote in tweedledum and tweedledee all we like, fact is that the permanent government are the ones with the real power (the civil service) and they are controlled by our 'betters' in Europe.
All the rest is just a front.

Fukuyama

Fr. Ned wrote: »

How come you lads never put up video's of peaceful protests where there's no pushing or shoving and are generally good humoured?

The only videos being posted online are by the anti-water meter crowd. Surely it would be in their best interests to put up such videos. However, it seems nonexistent.

I'm not going to go and video tape 5-6 people standing around as "proof" of people's ability to be peaceful. Abiding by the law isn't something to win political points over. It's called normal behaviour.

The discussion is on how gardaí should handle situations where by your own admission in the post quoted above, protesters resort to intimidating and illegal behaviour. I for one, think those in breach of the Public Order act should be warned once and arrested if they don't cop on.

Further failure to comply shouldn't get the usual "ah now, c'mon now lads" reaction from AGS, they should stand their ground and enforce the law.

Fr. Ned

Dean0088 wrote: »

This isn't a political discussion. It's one about policing. And, as far as I can tell, the heartbeat of the nation hasn't risen to the point of rejecting the gardaí in favour of random mobs.

Hard to know what to think about you lads, One lot of you say it's the 'usual suspects' organising the protests and another lot claim it's 'random mobs'.
The title of the thread includes the words 'pest control', that in itself says a lot about the attitude of people who don't believe in the democratic right to protest.

Fr. Ned

Dean0088 wrote: »

The only videos being posted online are by the anti-water meter crowd. Surely it would be in their best interests to put up such videos. However, it seems nonexistent.

I'm not going to go and video tape 5-6 people standing around as "proof" of people's ability to be peaceful. Abiding by the law isn't something to win political points over. It's called normal behaviour.

The discussion is on how gardaí should handle situations where by your own admission in the post quoted above, protesters resort to intimidating and illegal behaviour. I for one, think those in breach of the Public Order act should be warned once and arrested if they don't cop on.

Further failure to comply shouldn't get the usual "ah now, c'mon now lads" reaction from AGS, they should stand their ground and enforce the law.

Most of the 'pushing and shoving' I've seen on the videos has been coming from AGS.