Ireland's "Peaceful Protestors" - Pest Control?

Fukuyama

Fr. Ned wrote: »

In dean's world, protesters would be arrested, charged and sent to trial/prison.
I hope he never gets his wish because that would be the start of something that would quite quickly get out of control.
The Gardai are doing their job, they're well trained on how to deal with situations and should be left to deal with them.

You're talking pure BS now.

People who break the public order act are given plenty of leeway in Ireland. Fair enough too - as a crowd mentality can take over. All it takes is one or two trouble makers to whip up an angry mob.

However, when a garda addresses you directly and tells you to get off the road, and you don't comply (multiple times), I don't see any other way other than arrest.

What we have is a traveling circus of career activists wasting garda time.

If protest suppression (in a true, real form) is every actually occurring in Ireland, I'll stand and fight against it alongside anyone else regardless of their political views. But I won't support a rent-a-mob who think they can do as they please.

Timberrrrrrrr

Fr. Ned wrote: »

There's people on this website who think that anyone disagreeing with the government should be beaten off the streets and even locked up according to a few.

Am gonna need a source for that wild accusation please.

Nodin

Dean0088 wrote: »

This isn't a political discussion. It's one about policing. And, as far as I can tell, the heartbeat of the nation hasn't risen to the point of rejecting the gardaí in favour of random mobs.

It is? All I've seen thus far is a wish to inflict violence of people, based on stereotyping and snobbery. Thankfully its not going to happen.

Fukuyama

end of the road wrote: »

they are working and thats the end of it. those who need to be arrested are arrested

Saying so doesn't make it that. It might be working in your opinion, but some people don't like to see 50+ people braking the law and acting like disrespectful thugs, only for 1 or 2 arrests to be made.

I sincerely hope (and expect) that none of these arrests ever make it to trial. The best way to deal with public order offenders is a warning from a garda after 2-3 hours in a cell to cool off.

This thread isn't a call for protest oppression (despite your wish for it to be so), it's about controlling people who behave like animals in the name of protest.

Having an issue to protest about doesn't exempt you from what is a reasonable and just law.

Timberrrrrrrr

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Most ex-BA have some type of mental problems/issues after years in the army.
They wouldn't have been the brightest bulbs in the box even before they signed up.

Idiotic post is idiotic

I'm sure you have peer reviewed stats to back up this ridiculous claim?

Fukuyama

Nodin wrote: »

It is? All I've seen thus far is a wish to inflict violence of people, based on stereotyping and snobbery. Thankfully its not going to happen.

Based on behaviour and language, as seen in their OWN videos.

Any denial of anti-social subcultures within these mobs is however laughable. It's not snobbery to identify people on the subculture they voluntarily subscribe to.

Fr. Ned

Dean0088 wrote: »

You're talking pure BS now.

These are your words aren't they?

"The gardaí aren't there to make sure things don't escalate - these idiots should know how to behave like adults. They're there to ensure those who break the law, and continue doing so despite their presence, are dealt with the way a peaceful, democratic country does - arrest, charge and if necessary, a trial.."

Fr. Ned

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Idiotic post is idiotic

I'm sure you have peer reviewed stats to back up this ridiculous claim?

I got a mod warning the last time I engaged with you.
I won't be engaging further, however my post still stands.

Fukuyama

Fr. Ned wrote: »

These are your words aren't they?

"The gardaí aren't there to make sure things don't escalate - these idiots should know how to behave like adults. They're there to ensure those who break the law, and continue doing so despite their presence, are dealt with the way a peaceful, democratic country does - arrest, charge and if necessary, a trial.."

I don't know what your reading ability is... However:

I said "those who break the law" in obvious reference to the Public Order Act.

You seem to have read "protesters".

Hope that clears it up for you.

Fukuyama

Fr. Ned wrote: »

I got a mod warning the last time I engaged with you.
I won't be engaging further.

That's probably because your engagements break the forum rules - you have no logical point to argue, so resort to ad hominem attacks.

Fr. Ned

Dean0088 wrote: »

I don't know what your reading ability is... However:

I said "those who break the law" in obvious reference to the Public Order Act.

You seem to have read "protesters".

Hope that clears it up for you.

So, what law are the protesters breaking and why aren't the Gardai doing as you wish?

Fr. Ned

Dean0088 wrote: »

That's probably because your engagements break the forum rules - you have no logical point to argue, so resort to ad hominem attacks.

More assumptions about people, eh?

Timberrrrrrrr

Fr. Ned wrote: »

I got a mod warning the last time I engaged with you.
I won't be engaging further, however my post still stands.

So no stats to back up your vicious claims? Well colour me surprised.

Timberrrrrrrr

Fr. Ned wrote: »

More assumptions about people, eh?

Oh

Kettle, Pot, Black

:rolleyes:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Fr. Ned wrote: »

These are your words aren't they?

"The gardaí aren't there to make sure things don't escalate - these idiots should know how to behave like adults. They're there to ensure those who break the law, and continue doing so despite their presence, are dealt with the way a peaceful, democratic country does - arrest, charge and if necessary, a trial.."

Probelm there is that you assume it's the protesters who escalate things. There have been many cases where the police have been seen, recorded and admitted to cases of butality.

I think we may differ by how we consider a "peacful democratic country" deals with breaking the law in these cases.

Fr. Ned

Oh dear, even after mod warnings he starts the trolling again.....ho hum....

Fukuyama

Fr. Ned wrote: »

So, what law are the protesters breaking and why aren't the Gardai doing as you wish?

Public Order Act.

5.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to engage in offensive conduct—

(a) between the hours of 12 o'clock midnight and 7 o'clock in the morning next following, or

(b) at any other time, after having been requested by a member of the Garda Síochána to desist.

6.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to use or engage in any threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with intent to provoke a breach of the peace or being reckless as to whether a breach of the peace may be occasioned.

8.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds a person in a public place and suspects, with reasonable cause, that such person—

(a) is or has been acting in a manner contrary to the provisions of section 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 or 9 , or

(b) without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, is acting in a manner which consists of loitering in a public place in circumstances, which may include the company of other persons, that give rise to a reasonable apprehension for the safety of persons or the safety of property or for the maintenance of the public peace,

the member may direct the person so suspected to do either or both of the following, that is to say:

(i) desist from acting in such a manner, and

(ii) leave immediately the vicinity of the place concerned in a peaceable or orderly manner.

(2) It shall be an offence for any person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, to fail to comply with a direction given by a member of the Garda Síochána under this section.

(3) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

Wilful obstruction.

9.—Any person who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, wilfully prevents or interrupts the free passage of any person or vehicle in any public place shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £200.

In the videos posted, "protesters" are in violation of this act because they blocked roads without a permit, refused orders of AGS, blocked vehicles, used insulting language towards workers and AGS and displayed violent intent.

That's about as clear as I can make the Public Order Act. There it is. It's no act specially crafted to suppress protests - it's intended to keep the peace.

Fr. Ned

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Probelm there is that you assume it's the protesters who escalate things. There have been many cases where the police have been seen, recorded and admitted to cases of butality.

I think we may differ by how we consider a "peacful democratic country" deals with breaking the law in these cases.

Sorry?
I was quoting another poster there, dean0088.

Fr. Ned

Dean0088 wrote: »

Public Order Act.

5.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to engage in offensive conduct—

(a) between the hours of 12 o'clock midnight and 7 o'clock in the morning next following, or

(b) at any other time, after having been requested by a member of the Garda Síochána to desist.

6.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to use or engage in any threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with intent to provoke a breach of the peace or being reckless as to whether a breach of the peace may be occasioned.

8.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds a person in a public place and suspects, with reasonable cause, that such person—

(a) is or has been acting in a manner contrary to the provisions of section 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 or 9 , or

(b) without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, is acting in a manner which consists of loitering in a public place in circumstances, which may include the company of other persons, that give rise to a reasonable apprehension for the safety of persons or the safety of property or for the maintenance of the public peace,

the member may direct the person so suspected to do either or both of the following, that is to say:



In the videos posted, "protesters" are in violation of this act because they blocked roads without a permit, refused orders of AGS, blocked vehicles, used insulting language towards workers and AGS and displayed violent intent.

That's about as clear as I can make the Public Order Act. There it is. It's no act specially crafted to suppress protests - it's intended to keep the peace.

Everyone's an expert on 'the law' eh?
Thankfully we leave it to the professionals to interpret it.

Fukuyama

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Everyone's an expert on 'the law' eh?
Thankfully we leave it to the professionals to interpret it.

At this point, having literally quoted an act which is one of the most plainly worded on the statute books, and you seem to deny that it says what it says, I'm going to bow out of any further discussion with you.

I'm always open to discussion and debate. But you don't want to do that - you want to substitute reality with your own version that suits.

For the past 4/5 pages your replies have been nothing but personal attacks, misquoting posters (saying I want to suppress protest) and downright idiotic, uninformed statements. Your use of hyphens around 'the law' paints it as some abstraction similar to "the man" - your thought process and opinions are that of an a moody teenager.

If you actually come forth with an argument with a shred of sense or basis in normal, civilized thinking I'll engage but until then it's better for AH and this thread if this kindof nonsense wans't engaged with.

I'm sure this can only delight you in the same way an IW protester is delighted that society refuses to take them seriously. All I have to say to that is that I hope your ignorance is one of bliss.

end of the road

Dean0088 wrote: »

You're talking pure BS now.

People who break the public order act are given plenty of leeway in Ireland. Fair enough too - as a crowd mentality can take over. All it takes is one or two trouble makers to whip up an angry mob.

However, when a garda addresses you directly and tells you to get off the road, and you don't comply (multiple times), I don't see any other way other than arrest.

What we have is a traveling circus of career activists wasting garda time.

If protest suppression (in a true, real form) is every actually occurring in Ireland, I'll stand and fight against it alongside anyone else regardless of their political views. But I won't support a rent-a-mob who think they can do as they please.

nobody is wasting guarda time. if they need to be arrested then they are. end of

end of the road

Dean0088 wrote: »

Saying so doesn't make it that. It might be working in your opinion, but some people don't like to see 50+ people braking the law and acting like disrespectful thugs, only for 1 or 2 arrests to be made.

I sincerely hope (and expect) that none of these arrests ever make it to trial. The best way to deal with public order offenders is a warning from a garda after 2-3 hours in a cell to cool off.

This thread isn't a call for protest oppression (despite your wish for it to be so), it's about controlling people who behave like animals in the name of protest.

Having an issue to protest about doesn't exempt you from what is a reasonable and just law.

not my opinion. fact. if the 50 + people need to be arrested then they will be. they obviously don't as they aren't being arrested. wasting cell spaces for this when we have severely dangerous criminals just isn't cost effective

Nodin

Dean0088 wrote: »

Based on behaviour and language, as seen in their OWN videos.

Any denial of anti-social subcultures within these mobs is however laughable. It's not snobbery to identify people on the subculture they voluntarily subscribe to.

My eye. You and a few fellow travellers are projecting your fear of the "great unwashed" and hoping for a bit of baton porn to keep yez happy.

end of the road

Dean0088 wrote: »

Based on behaviour and language, as seen in their OWN videos.

Any denial of anti-social subcultures within these mobs is however laughable. It's not snobbery to identify people on the subculture they voluntarily subscribe to.

language has nothing to do with it. its just language. if one can't deal with it, then find another job. i have to deal with if its used at me so the police are no different

end of the road

Dean0088 wrote: »

Public Order Act.

5.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to engage in offensive conduct—

(a) between the hours of 12 o'clock midnight and 7 o'clock in the morning next following, or

(b) at any other time, after having been requested by a member of the Garda Síochána to desist.

6.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to use or engage in any threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with intent to provoke a breach of the peace or being reckless as to whether a breach of the peace may be occasioned.

8.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds a person in a public place and suspects, with reasonable cause, that such person—

(a) is or has been acting in a manner contrary to the provisions of section 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 or 9 , or

(b) without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, is acting in a manner which consists of loitering in a public place in circumstances, which may include the company of other persons, that give rise to a reasonable apprehension for the safety of persons or the safety of property or for the maintenance of the public peace,

the member may direct the person so suspected to do either or both of the following, that is to say:



In the videos posted, "protesters" are in violation of this act because they blocked roads without a permit, refused orders of AGS, blocked vehicles, used insulting language towards workers and AGS and displayed violent intent.

That's about as clear as I can make the Public Order Act. There it is. It's no act specially crafted to suppress protests - it's intended to keep the peace.

no . only section 5 of the UK act is for that sort of nonsense.

Fukuyama

end of the road wrote: »

language has nothing to do with it. its just language. if one can't deal with it, then find another job. i have to deal with if its used at me so the police are no different

The police aren't there to be cursed at and insulted personally for no reason. A failure to stand up to this kind of scumbag behaviour proliferates it throughout society.

Like it or not, skangers dislike the gardaí because they are the force who stand up to them. Here, they have number on their side so enjoy breaking the law with impunity.

You can deny this subculture all you want. It'll only lead me to believe you don't actually live in areas where these kind of people do. They're generally little thugs who, as always, use numbers and anti-social behaviour to ruin areas for the majority of normal people.

Go ahead and call me a snob. If being a snob these days means condemning anti-social behaviour and skangers in general, then the "elite class" must be much more accessible than it was 30/40 years ago. I've never considered myself a member of it until I was labeled on in this thread!

end of the road

Dean0088 wrote: »

The police aren't there to be cursed at and insulted personally for no reason.

its part of the job. they know that when they join. if they don't like it or can't deal with it, don't join. if such language can be used at the public and if reported the police can charge you for wasting time then they should be no different.

Dean0088 wrote: »

A failure to stand up to this kind of scumbag behaviour proliferates it throughout society.

it doesn't. it can't be stood up to.

Fukuyama

end of the road wrote: »

its part of the job. they know that when they join. if they don't like it or can't deal with it, don't join. if such language can be used at the public and if reported the police can charge you for wasting time then they should be no different.



it doesn't. it can't be stood up to.

It's also part of the job to arrest those who do it, not to be blindly accepted.

The gardaí are not the verbal or physical punching bags of the government. They're the police force of the state and they're employed and supported by the majority of Irish people who despise anti-social behaviour and would never verbally or physically or physically assault a garda.

The public order act is there for a reason. And it's the most used act by gardaí for a reason.

end of the road

Dean0088 wrote: »

It's also part of the job to arrest those who do it, not to be blindly accepted.

The gardaí are not the verbal or physical punching bags of the government. They're the police force of the state and they're employed and supported by the majority of Irish people who despise anti-social behaviour and would never verbally or physically or physically assault a garda.

The public order act is there for a reason. And it's the most used act by gardaí for a reason.

its part of the job and thats it. language isn't assault

hju6

Dean0088 wrote: »

It's also part of the job to arrest those who do it, not to be blindly accepted.

The gardaí are not the verbal or physical punching bags of the government. They're the police force of the state and they're employed and supported by the majority of Irish people who despise anti-social behaviour and would never verbally or physically or physically assault a garda.

The public order act is there for a reason. And it's the most used act by gardaí for a reason.

So the protesters should wear expensive suits and speak the queens English ?

Or do you think that the working class have no right to protest ?