Ireland's "Peaceful Protestors" - Pest Control?

SweetChaos

Ah so ye got a bit of dirt on one worker well done, I've no doubt now we will hear it all over the youtube videos when the troops (protesters) will be mobilised tomorrow for another week of so called peaceful protests they are becoming more militant and it wont end well I seen one comment of facebook saying they should start a riot show them they mean business

personally I think that type of behaviour is unacceptable and no one should have to deal and be subjected to this while they are just doing their job

Gatling

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/death-threats-made-to-irish-water-workers-30513885.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/gun-threat-irish-water-worker-1687208-Sep2014/

http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=33001

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-water-workers-spat-at-and-stoned-by-meter-protesters-30498336.html

Peaceful ,innocent protesters


My ass

Cant wait to see what the scumbag with the imitation firearm gets when he goes to trial

SweetChaos

Gatling wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/death-threats-made-to-irish-water-workers-30513885.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/gun-threat-irish-water-worker-1687208-Sep2014/

http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=33001

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-water-workers-spat-at-and-stoned-by-meter-protesters-30498336.html

Peaceful ,innocent protesters


My ass

And now the protesters are upset because of the garda presence and they cant get away with their thuggish behaviour anymore and now upload videos of Garda "brutality"

jank

Gatling wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/death-threats-made-to-irish-water-workers-30513885.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/gun-threat-irish-water-worker-1687208-Sep2014/

http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=33001

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-water-workers-spat-at-and-stoned-by-meter-protesters-30498336.html

Peaceful ,innocent protesters


My ass

Cant wait to see what the scumbag with the imitation firearm gets when he goes to trial

But but but... democratic process is broken, european overlords, IW scumbags at it too, Gardai acting like a private police force, British Army... blah blah blah....
Will defenders of these protestors condemn this action? Nope, they will attempt to dodge , evade and basically drag the topic into some other vein of nothingness.

These idiot protestors is the reason why 99% of normal level headed people will never march or protest.

Gatling

jank wrote: »

But but but... democratic process is broken, european overlords, IW scumbags at it too, Gardai acting like a private police force, British Army... blah blah blah....
Will defenders of these protestors condemn this action? Nope,

They'll have a go at me though

Fr. Ned

Gatling wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/death-threats-made-to-irish-water-workers-30513885.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/gun-threat-irish-water-worker-1687208-Sep2014/

http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=33001

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-water-workers-spat-at-and-stoned-by-meter-protesters-30498336.html

Peaceful ,innocent protesters


My ass

Cant wait to see what the scumbag with the imitation firearm gets when he goes to trial

Any convicted murderers among them?

Gatling

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Any convicted murderers among them?

Its quite possible isnt it,

So the faux outrage whats it all about ?

Timberrrrrrrr

Gatling wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/death-threats-made-to-irish-water-workers-30513885.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/gun-threat-irish-water-worker-1687208-Sep2014/

http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=33001

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-water-workers-spat-at-and-stoned-by-meter-protesters-30498336.html

Peaceful ,innocent protesters


My ass

Cant wait to see what the scumbag with the imitation firearm gets when he goes to trial

And after reading those reports i reiterate my stance that Gardai need to take a firmer approach with these scrotes and if needs be the use of pepper spray and batons should be sanctioned to protect decent people going about their days work.

Fr. Ned

Obviously there's some on here who want us to take the English route, similar to the time of the poll tax riots.
Thankfully we live in a more civilised society where we allow our Gardai to do their jobs in the way they deem appropriate.
There's a reason why in this country that we don't have an armed police force and it's served us very well up to now.
I think the last time we had to use batons and pepper spray in this country was in Landsdowne Road in 1995.

Gatling

Fr. Ned wrote: »

I think the last time we had to use batons and pepper spray in this country was in Landsdowne Road in 1995.

Unfortunately that's not very true is it

Timberrrrrrrr

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Obviously there's some on here who want us to take the English route, similar to the time of the poll tax riots.
Thankfully we live in a more civilised society where we allow our Gardai to do their jobs in the way they deem appropriate.

Nothing civilised about the way the anti meter crowd are acting, Would it be ok for me to come to your place of work, call you a pedophile, film you and post it on social media?

There's a reason why in this country that we don't have an armed police force and it's served us very well up to now.
I think the last time we had to use batons and pepper spray in this country was in Landsdowne Road in 1995.

Wrong again. why am i not surprised :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Dublin_riots

The most sustained violence took place around the General Post Office building, where the rioters initially sat down in protest and then, several of them having been batoned, regrouped behind burning barricades and threw rocks, paving slabs and one or possibly two petrol bombs at Gardaí.

geeksauce

jank wrote: »

But but but... democratic process is broken, european overlords, IW scumbags at it too, Gardai acting like a private police force, British Army... blah blah blah....
Will defenders of these protestors condemn this action? Nope, they will attempt to dodge , evade and basically drag the topic into some other vein of nothingness.

These idiot protestors is the reason why 99% of normal level headed people will never march or protest.

Totally agree, many more people would protest and march if it wasn't for those idiots there inciting and threatening violence. The vast majority of people that would want to protest would definitely be put off by these clowns, in no possible way would a normal decent person want to be associated with any of the muppets currently protesting.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jank wrote: »

But but but... democratic process is broken, european overlords, IW scumbags at it too, Gardai acting like a private police force, British Army... blah blah blah....
Will defenders of these protestors condemn this action? Nope, they will attempt to dodge , evade and basically drag the topic into some other vein of nothingness.

These idiot protestors is the reason why 99% of normal level headed people will never march or protest.

Hang on - are you takign about peaceful protestors as the thread title states, or the water meter guys? Biiiig difference. There is no way you can say "these idiot protestors" about a guy who pulled a fake gun on water-meter installer and imply he's typical of most protesters who would partake in marches.

geeksauce

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Hang on - are you takign about peaceful protestors as the thread title states, or the water meter guys? Biiiig difference. There is no way you can say "these idiot protestors" about a guy who pulled a fake gun on water-meter installer and imply he's typical of most protesters who would partake in marches.

The guy pulling the gun isn't necessarily typical of the majority of protesters, however the majority of people that would consider protesting are put off by idiots like this guy who seem to show up at any and every protest there is. If it wasn't for idiots like this the protests would have far more support however, because of these people they will never gain the required support or momentum.

I think the thread title is misleading you too, I would assume the "Peaceful Protestors" part is a bit tongue in cheek, or sarcastic hence the "" around the words.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

geeksauce wrote: »

The guy pulling the gun isn't necessarily typical of the majority of protesters, however the majority of people that would consider protesting are put off by idiots like this guy who seem to show up at any and every protest there is. If it wasn't for idiots like this the protests would have far more support however, because of these people they will never gain the required support or momentum.

I think the thread title is misleading you too, I would assume the "Peaceful Protestors" part is a bit tongue in cheek, or sarcastic hence the "" around the words.

Perhaps so, but taking this guy as an example of progtestors in general is a fallacy. We're talking compeltely different circumstances (noramlly portest marches are proactive and more political in nature) and use completely different tactics. The guys opposing the water metre installations are people who are makign a one off protest because of an incident happening there and then and are not the guys who woud usually go on marches or to demonstarations.

It may put people off, but if so, these people aren't reading the situation correctly and are probbaly looking for an excuse to condemn protrestors in general anyway.

Gatling

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Perhaps so, but taking this guy as an example of progtestors in general is a fallacy. I read a lot obout protestors and have yet to encoutner any such insicdent as those mentioned in the news articales.

We're talking compeltely different circumstances (noramlly portest marches are proactive) and completely different tactics.

There simply is no conparison, and if people are making a comparison they need to be clear as to what protests they are comparing it too.

It's happening all over dublin on a daily basis though not in all areas apparently but it's happening a lot

geeksauce

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Perhaps so, but taking this guy as an example of progtestors in general is a fallacy. We're talking compeltely different circumstances (noramlly portest marches are proactive and more political in nature) and use completely different tactics. The guys opposing the water metre installations are people who are makign a one off protest because of an incident happening there and then and are not the guys who woud usually go on marches or to demonstarations.

It may put people off, but if so, these people aren't reading the situation correctly and are probbaly looking for an excuse to condemn protrestors in general anyway.

I'm sure they are reading the situation correctly, I have seen footage of the protests happening around the country and I for one have no interest in getting involved with any of the people at them. To me there is a vast difference between peaceful protests and what is going on with the IW workers at the minute.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gatling wrote: »

It's happening all over dublin on a daily basis though not in all areas apparently but it's happening a lot

Not for one second saying it isn't.

I'm dsitinguishing them from protesters, not from other water-meter incidents.

geeksauce wrote: »

I'm sure they are reading the situation correctly, I have seen footage of the protests happening around the country and I for one have no interest in getting involved with any of the people at them. To me there is a vast difference between peaceful protests and what is going on with the IW workers at the minute.

Nor would I, to be perfectly honest. Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with them.

Gatling

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not for one second saying it isn't.

I'm dsitinguishing them from protesters, not from other water-meter incidents.



Nor would I, to be perfectly honest. Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with them.

I get you now

Quin_Dub

The whole problem with Protests about anything in Ireland is that within a very short time , they get taken over (visually/audibly at least) by fringe extremist groups that muddy the water entirely by bringing in complaints about everything and ramping up the vitriol and emotions to the point where the protests simply become shouting matches and totally lose the focus that they were meant to have in the 1st place.

I think the only successful protest in recent memory was the pensioners regarding the Medical card.... Why? Because there were no shouty morons involved . They marched , they held up their banners , maybe chanted their slogans a bit but they kept it civil and on message.

Most importantly , they kept to the single specific issue and the protests were targeted in the right place - They didn't blockade Doctors surgeries and hospitals , they went to the Dail....

The result ? They got what they wanted.

As other posters have said in the last few pages , A large number of people are actively dissuaded from getting involved in any kind of protest in this country due to the involvement of a particular coterie of hard left activists who turn up and escalate tensions and also try to expand the scope of protests to cover every one of their perceived issues with the state.

Everyone has a right to protest and I would support that right to the end , but wide scale support for these protests (or any protests tbh) will never happen until the organisers either get control of the agitators or get rid of them entirely...

Anatom

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The whole problem with Protests about anything in Ireland is that within a very short time , they get taken over (visually/audibly at least) by fringe extremist groups that muddy the water entirely by bringing in complaints about everything and ramping up the vitriol and emotions to the point where the protests simply become shouting matches and totally lose the focus that they were meant to have in the 1st place.

I think the only successful protest in recent memory was the pensioners regarding the Medical card.... Why? Because there were no shouty morons involved . They marched , they held up their banners , maybe chanted their slogans a bit but they kept it civil and on message.

Most importantly , they kept to the single specific issue and the protests were targeted in the right place - They didn't blockade Doctors surgeries and hospitals , they went to the Dail....

The result ? They got what they wanted.

As other posters have said in the last few pages , A large number of people are actively dissuaded from getting involved in any kind of protest in this country due to the involvement of a particular coterie of hard left activists who turn up and escalate tensions and also try to expand the scope of protests to cover every one of their perceived issues with the state.

Everyone has a right to protest and I would support that right to the end , but wide scale support for these protests (or any protests tbh) will never happen until the organisers either get control of the agitators or get rid of them entirely...

^^^^ That ^^^^^!

Excellent post.

micosoft

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The whole problem with Protests about anything in Ireland is that within a very short time , they get taken over (visually/audibly at least) by fringe extremist groups that muddy the water entirely by bringing in complaints about everything and ramping up the vitriol and emotions to the point where the protests simply become shouting matches and totally lose the focus that they were meant to have in the 1st place.

I think the only successful protest in recent memory was the pensioners regarding the Medical card.... Why? Because there were no shouty morons involved . They marched , they held up their banners , maybe chanted their slogans a bit but they kept it civil and on message.

Most importantly , they kept to the single specific issue and the protests were targeted in the right place - They didn't blockade Doctors surgeries and hospitals , they went to the Dail....

The result ? They got what they wanted.

As other posters have said in the last few pages , A large number of people are actively dissuaded from getting involved in any kind of protest in this country due to the involvement of a particular coterie of hard left activists who turn up and escalate tensions and also try to expand the scope of protests to cover every one of their perceived issues with the state.

Everyone has a right to protest and I would support that right to the end , but wide scale support for these protests (or any protests tbh) will never happen until the organisers either get control of the agitators or get rid of them entirely...

Just to add a bit you are missing is that they clearly stated that they would use their votes effectively in the next election. Whether you agree with it or not this was an effective use of the democratic right to peacefully protest and get a point across. Whether you agree or disagree with water charges, I think most impartial observers would see that politicans aren't in the slightest bit worried about the electoral impact of the people out protesting. Sure they will lose the upcoming byelection, but those sums have already been done and governments rarely if ever win a byelection (i.e. nothing can be read into a byelection vote). By the next election the yokes that are out protesting won't turn up at the booth (a perennial problem for PbP/SWP etc) and Sinn Fein will have do their usual pragmatic u-turn when they sniff power and say that it's too late to do anything, and sure they are just a junior partner in coalition. On the other hand the politicians knew damn well that everyone who turned up for the Medical Card protest would have remembered and voted accordingly. That's democracy for you!

DazMarz

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the next Government will be formed via a coalition of Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and what's left of Labour... with possibly a few independents shoring up the numbers. I don't take into account any new parties that might for before the next General Election.

Current seats in Dáil Eireann:

Fine Gael: 69
Labour: 34
Fianna Fáil: 20
Sinn Féin: 14
Socialist Party: 2
PBPA: 1
WUAG: 1
Independent: 22

with 4 currently vacant seats to be filled by by-election.

I would hazard a guess that after the next General Election, the Dáil will look something like this:

Fine Gael: +/- 55
Fianna Fáil: +/- 35
Sinn Féin: +/- 25
Labour: +/- 10
Misc: +/- 5
Ind: +/- 25

That is taking into account that the next Dáil will have 158 seats, compared to the current 166. This is NOT taking into account that any new parties may form.

Looking at the above, the most likely government (if those numbers hold) would be a coalition between Fine Gael/Fianna Fáil/Labour. It would give them a solid, stable majority in the Dáil. They could almost certainly rely upon the support of an Independent technical group if need be, too.

The next government will be the "Anyone but the Shinners" election for the main parties; you can be sure that it will be historic in terms of how the main parties will transfer very well between each other, bucking recent trends. It will be a re-aligning election, in terms of that we will (finally) see a true left-right divide emerge in Irish politics, Civil War politics will be buried as FG/FF finally go into coalition and Labour will hang on for dear life. If Labour do not remain in government after the next election, they are truly shagged, as SF will take all the plaudits of opposition and Labour will continue a slide down. If they remain in government, they have some chance to regroup.

One of the main parties beating the drum at the minute is People Before Profit. They currently have one sitting T.D., Richard Boyd Barrett. And I reckon he will lose his seat in Dun Laoghaire. Why? Because the Shinners will scupper him. In 2011, there was a gentleman's agreement that SF would not run a candidate in Dun Laoghaire, so as to open the door for RBB. However, seeing as a SF candidate topped the poll in Dun Laoghaire at the last Local Elections, they're likely to stick two fingers up at RBB and run a candidate. The left are not so united now, are they? They're as "mé féin" as anyone, but just don't like to admit it. The addition of a SF candidate in Dun Laoghaire will split the vote and neither the Shinner nor RBB will get elected.

Dun Laoghaire is losing a seat at the next GE; Ceann Comhairle will be automatically re-elected, so that's one of the four seats gone already. The Fine Gaeler from there is also a cert to be re-elected. You can be damn sure that Mary Hanafin will run again and will most likely get re-elected. RBB will be in a contest with Eamon Gilmore for the final seat... and Eamon will most likely have enough experience and clout to scrape it, leaving RBB pissing into the wind.

And, lads, let's not forget: in six months' time... there'll be something else to go out and protest about, and Water Charges will be all but forgotten.

Quin_Dub

micosoft wrote: »

Just to add a bit you are missing is that they clearly stated that they would use their votes effectively in the next election. Whether you agree with it or not this was an effective use of the democratic right to peacefully protest and get a point across. Whether you agree or disagree with water charges, I think most impartial observers would see that politicans aren't in the slightest bit worried about the electoral impact of the people out protesting. Sure they will lose the upcoming byelection, but those sums have already been done. By the next election the yokes that are out protesting won't turn up at the booth (a perennial problem for PbP/SWP etc) and Sinn Fein will have do their usual pragmatic u-turn when they sniff power. On the other hand the politicians knew damn well that everyone who turned up for the Medical Card protest would have remembered and voted accordingly. That's democracy for you!

Agree completely - Pensioner Medical cards was the perfect example of a targeted protest - They had a single issue and a single "threat" which carried real weight and impact the the government. The over 50's vote and always do and they remained focused on the single issue , didn't try to bundle a host of complaints in to muddy the waters and stuck to the plan.

The current protests are just that , protests, that will eventually fizzle out because they lack structure and focus and they have no real threat behind them.

Regardless of how many water meters do or don't get installed , everyone will still get a bill, so the government get their money. The fact that GMC Sierra take a bit longer to get the job done has no real impact on anything.

There is no "Anti-Water charges" voting block - There are lots of individual small groups that have Water charges on a laundry list of things that they oppose, but getting the vote out for these groups will be impossible at any material level.

Of course there will be individual TD's in certain constituencies that will be at risk due to the issues but not enough for it to make a material difference to governance in the country..

After the next election Fine Gael will still be the largest party , Fianna Fail will be next , Labour are going to take a strong hit, but will still be there , SF may pick up a few more seats , but nothing like the volume that the local election results might indicate (which was a pure protest vote and one which people don't really care about as Councillors/MEP aren't seen in the same light as a General Election) and we'll have an increased number of independents and "Others".

Fundamentally though , Governance in Ireland is not going to take any kind of sharp turn to the left in 2016...

Fr. Ned

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The whole problem with Protests about anything in Ireland is that within a very short time , they get taken over (visually/audibly at least) by fringe extremist groups that muddy the water entirely by bringing in complaints about everything and ramping up the vitriol and emotions to the point where the protests simply become shouting matches and totally lose the focus that they were meant to have in the 1st place.

I think the only successful protest in recent memory was the pensioners regarding the Medical card.... Why? Because there were no shouty morons involved . They marched , they held up their banners , maybe chanted their slogans a bit but they kept it civil and on message.

Most importantly , they kept to the single specific issue and the protests were targeted in the right place - They didn't blockade Doctors surgeries and hospitals , they went to the Dail....

The result ? They got what they wanted.

As other posters have said in the last few pages , A large number of people are actively dissuaded from getting involved in any kind of protest in this country due to the involvement of a particular coterie of hard left activists who turn up and escalate tensions and also try to expand the scope of protests to cover every one of their perceived issues with the state.

Everyone has a right to protest and I would support that right to the end , but wide scale support for these protests (or any protests tbh) will never happen until the organisers either get control of the agitators or get rid of them entirely...

Agreed, only there's certain people on this site who want them beaten off the streets, arrested and jailed and who continually refer to people who are protesting as scumbags, thugs, lowlifes etc and being from some sub-culture.
Just because some of these people know of no other way of getting their message across, doesn't mean that they can all be tarred with the one brush.
As a side issue, the Greek people rioted and had massive protests and got half of their national debt written off.
What does the good little Paddy get for being so docile? Abused on sites like this by people who aren't even from this country and have no stake in it.

SweetChaos

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Agreed, only there's certain people on this site who want them beaten off the streets, arrested and jailed and who continually refer to people who are protesting as scumbags, thugs, lowlifes etc and being from some sub-culture.
Just because some of these people know of no other way of getting their message across, doesn't mean that they can all be tarred with the one brush.
As a side issue, the Greek people rioted and had massive protests and got half of their national debt written off.
What does the good little Paddy get for being so docile? Abused on sites like this by people who aren't even from this country and have no stake in it.

Wow so who is the foreigners you are referring to?

Just because they have a banner in their hands doesn't give people a right to act anti-social

Gatling

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Agreed, only there's certain people on this site who want them beaten off the streets, arrested and jailed and who continually refer to people who are protesting as scumbags, thugs, lowlifes etc and being from some sub-culture.
Just because some of these people know of no other way of getting their message across, doesn't mean that they can all be tarred with the one brush.
As a side issue, the Greek people rioted and had massive protests and got half of their national debt written off.
What does the good little Paddy get for being so docile? Abused on sites like this by people who aren't even from this country and have no stake in it.

Ah sure there all innocent aren't they really

Barely There

DazMarz wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that after the next General Election, the Dáil will look something like this:

Fine Gael: +/- 55
Fianna Fáil: +/- 35
Sinn Féin: +/- 25
Labour: +/- 10
Misc: +/- 5
Ind: +/- 25

That is taking into account that the next Dáil will have 158 seats, compared to the current 166. This is NOT taking into account that any new parties may form.

The Shinners won't come within an ass's roar of 25 seats.

25 seats is around 16% of the total number - SF can't even get that percentage in a local election in the midst of public anger at Property Tax/Water Charges. Economically things are likly to have improved when the Country goes into a GE, which pulls the rug from under SF who've positioned themselves as the party that will abolish all these charges (while not cutting services :rolleyes:)

Furthermore, SF have never achieved a correlation between voting percentage and seat percentage - to get 16% of the seats, they'd have to get over 20% of the vote - that's mainly because many people would rather gouge their eye out than give a Shinner a transfer.


The next election will not see anything like the radical shake-up you suggest.

BoJack Horseman

Fr. Ned wrote: »

the Greek people rioted and had massive protests and got half of their national debt written off.

The 2 don't correlate.

The Greek write down was based on the reality that they simply couldn't repay the full amount of debt accumulated through decades of mismanagement.

Ireland can repay & is thusly shafted.
Nowt to do with the presence or absence of protests.

Quin_Dub

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The 2 don't correlate.

The Greek write down was based on the reality that they simply couldn't repay the full amount of debt accumulated through decades of mismanagement.

Ireland can repay & is thusly shafted.
Nowt to do with the presence IR absence of protests.

Absolutely - All the Greek rioters achieved was scaring away FDI for the next 10 years