Ireland's "Peaceful Protestors" - Pest Control?

BoJack Horseman · 01-10-2014 4:13pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

and in the case of the Journal it attracts nutters...

Opinion polls on TheJournal indicate SF should have 100+ TDs in the Dáil.

DrumSteve · 01-10-2014 4:13pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'd say that's more to do with the fact that people here are regular posters and longer term members of Boards, whereas the comments section of the Journal or some Facebook page will attract people looking to specifically post on the topic...and in the case of the Journal it attracts nutters...

True, I wouldn't put much stock in the journals comment section, but its surprising that you don't see more of that type of poster on here.

01-10-2014 4:13pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And herein is encapsulated the Economic logic of the Irish Left...

State funding comes from the magic fairy money tree... So of course it doesn't have to actually pay it's way!!!

What Economics dictate that a company in need with serious upgrading should be turning a profit from day 1?

Irish Water is state owned, in other words its owned by the people of this country, why should it be making a profit?

donvito99 · 01-10-2014 4:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Irish Water is state owned

It's semi state. Wrong again. Move on, thanks.

BoJack Horseman · 01-10-2014 4:16pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Irish Water is state owned, in other words its owned by the people of this country, why should it be making a profit?

So it can invest money maintaining & upgrading water infrastructure.

(How obvious is this!).

Quin_Dub · 01-10-2014 4:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What Economics dictate that a company in need with serious upgrading should be turning a profit from day 1?

Irish Water is state owned, in other words its owned by the people of this country, why should it be making a profit?

Nobody said Profit , we said pay for itself...you suggest that it loses money.

01-10-2014 4:27pm

=donvito99;92431081]Because they're Gardaí and entitled to be there in order to facilitate work protected by statute and the injunction of a high court judge.

Are you saying the Gardai are above the law? Of course they are not, like anyone else they must comply with the same laws as us, that means they should be wearing safety gear. If they dont want to wear safety gear then no work should be carried out.

Because otherwise the contractor will be continually harassed and have their property damaged, as evidenced above in this thread.

Why behind the barriers though? Why cant they stand outside the barriers?

They are loitering and disturbing legitimate public works. It's called a breach of the peace.

Clearly you are not watching the same videos. The protesters are just standing there. If one of them attempts to enter the contained area then the Gardai should arrest them. Instead it seems that they are hell bent of pushing them.

Show us some evidence of this. If not, they're either in plainclotes who can produce ID upon request, or members of the public order unit who can produce a baton upon request.

Obviously you haven't watched all the videos. It is in plain site that many of them are not wearing identification. Have a look yourself.

This demonstrates a lack of understanding of proper procedure on your part. Gardaí are only required to give a broad explanation of the reason for arrest, there's no requirement to cite an Act.

Hence my original point, they are grabbing people without giving a reason. again watch the videos that are being put online.

That's your opinion. But they're not irrelevant upon conviction, are they sonny boy?

nobody is being convicted, all people arrested are being released without charge. What does that tell you sonny boy?

If you'd like to produce such a video instead of spuriously shiteing on we can all take a look. To be devil's advocate, I'd suggest that the filming began to amount to shoving it in his face as well as being one of many factors amounting to a public order offence -- and these people aren't unfamiliar with those.

I have produced a video.

3.46, a member of the Garda tells a women she is breaking the law for filming, he then goes onto to quote section 8 of the public order act.

Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994

8.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds a person in a public place and suspects, with reasonable cause, that such person—

(a) is or has been acting in a manner contrary to the provisions of section 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 or 9 , or

(b) without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, is acting in a manner which consists of loitering in a public place in circumstances, which may include the company of other persons, that give rise to a reasonable apprehension for the safety of persons or the safety of property or for the maintenance of the public peace,

the member may direct the person so suspected to do either or both of the following, that is to say:

(i) desist from acting in such a manner, and

(ii) leave immediately the vicinity of the place concerned in a peaceable or orderly manner.

(2) It shall be an offence for any person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, to fail to comply with a direction given by a member of the Garda Síochána under this section.

(3) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

4 of them there, 2 Gardai 1 protester in a car and 1 person filming. Please find the relevant section of section 8 as quoted by the Garda where the law has been broke?

That's fair enough, they are and they aren't. There's no Garda motto. They uphold the law, they're certainly not there to protect the louts and thugs you defend, the very subject of their enquiries.

Maybe not a motto but certainly an oath

I HEREBY SOLEMNLY AND SINCERELY DECLARE BEFORE GOD THAT_

I WILL FAITHFULLY DISCHARGE THE DUTIES OF A MEMBER OF THE GARDA SIOCHANA WITH FAIRNESS, INTEGRITY, REGARD FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, DILIGENCE AND IMPARTIALITY, UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE LAW AND ACCORDING EQUAL RESPECT TO ALL PEOPLE.

WHILE I CONTINUE TO BE A MEMBER, I WILL TO THE BEST OF MY SKILL AND KNOWLEDGE DISCHARGE ALL MY DUTIES ACCORDING TO LAW, AND

I DO NOT BELONG TO, AND WILL NOT WHILE I REMAIN A MEMBER FORM, BELONG TO OR SUBSCRIBE TO , ANY POLITICAL PARTY OR SECRET SOCIETY WHATSOEVER".

Oh! I am so sorry. Wanna hug? A lil huggywug? awwwhhh bless

You're deluded.

Any comment on this?

01-10-2014 4:29pm

sjb25 wrote: »

I'm not against being anti water tax but I am against being a scumbag blocking roads and calling guards and others scumbags for doing there jobs the guards should kick the sh1t out of them like most other police services would

You want the Gardai to "Kick the **** out of them"?

That would be illegal, so you against people blocking roads but you advocate violence.

Very strange.

Little CuChulainn · 01-10-2014 4:31pm

I'll try my best to respond to what you've posted despite the formatting mess.

Deleted User wrote: »

Health & Safety Law requires them to wear safety gear.

They would be complying with safety laws if they stood outside the barriers, this would also allow them to provide the same protection to Irish water workers.

Quote the law you are referring to. Gardaí are not bound by many health and safety laws due to necessity.

Deleted User wrote: »

People have the legal right to stand in a public place. The Gardai have no legal powers to move people if they are breaking no laws.

You don't have an inalienable right to stand in a public place. If you are breaking the law you gotta move.

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont need to ask them to know this is illegal.

It's not

Deleted User wrote: »

Every arrest must be conducted within the law, if a Garda arrests you you must be notified why you are under arrest.

Indeed. And how many people do not know the reason for the arrest. Your mistake is that you think it has to be announced.

Deleted User wrote: »

Section 8 seems to be a favourite, this was used on occasion because someone was filming them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOoXqnJu5gU&list=FLb2HmzkJgti8Ukgm_N3wP4Q

Well let's be a little more precise. She was filming a conversation between the Gardaí and someone else. You'd have to be mental to think the Gardaí won't stop people recording private conversations.

Deleted User wrote: »

Seen it a few days ago, but cant remember where now. But I will let you have this one. A defective truck of Irish water is reported to Gardai who refuse to act.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dYkrfjn4OM

When you say they refuse to act, you mean they refuse to do what they are told.

ThisRegard · 01-10-2014 4:35pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

True, I wouldn't put much stock in the journals comment section, but its surprising that you don't see more of that type of poster on here.

As the other guy said, and I alluded to, specific stories tend to attract people looking to make a specific point on such things who wouldn't be bothered with anything else.

Here people generally have an opinion on everything and anything.

DrumSteve · 01-10-2014 4:43pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

As the other guy said, and I alluded to, specific stories tend to attract people looking to make a specific point on such things who wouldn't be bothered with anything else.

Here people generally have an opinion on everything and anything.

Ah I've been here long enough to know what.

Just find it strange the lack of that sort of commenting here.

donvito99 · 01-10-2014 4:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you saying the Gardai are above the law? Of course they are not, like anyone else they must comply with the same laws as us, that means they should be wearing safety gear. If they dont want to wear safety gear then no work should be carried out.

How do you expect Gardaí to enforce the law if, as you say, "they must comply with the same laws as us"? They can't break red traffic lights in emergencies or carry firearms in public or carry other 'offensive weapons' (baton, pepper spray)? You no what you've just said to be wrong.

Why behind the barriers though? Why cant they stand outside the barriers?

Why not above or below them?

Clearly you are not watching the same videos. The protesters are just standing there. If one of them attempts to enter the contained area then the Gardai should arrest them. Instead it seems that they are hell bent of pushing them.

They stand on top of the pavement to be dug, wearing it like a badge of honour and quote bad law continually, saying they're entitled to be there because it's a public place. The road is a public place, but I can't legally lie down in it.

Obviously you haven't watched all the videos. It is in plain site that many of them are not wearing identification. Have a look yourself.

All of the videos I have seen include uniformed Gardai with epaulettes and shoulder numbers. In cases where there were no numbers, it was because the Gardai in question were the rank of Inspector or above, and are not required to wear their identification number on their shoulders.

nobody is being convicted, all people arrested are being released without charge. What does that tell you sonny boy?

It's only a matter of time. If they continue to post their illegal exploits (criminal damage, all the individuals involved identifiable and probably "known to Gardaí" as they say) online well then they deserve it.

3.46, a member of the Garda tells a women she is breaking the law for filming, he then goes onto to quote section 8 of the public order act.

Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994

8.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds a person in a public place and suspects, with reasonable cause, that such person—

(a) is or has been acting in a manner contrary to the provisions of section 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 or 9 , or

(b) without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, is acting in a manner which consists of loitering in a public place in circumstances, which may include the company of other persons, that give rise to a reasonable apprehension for the safety of persons or the safety of property or for the maintenance of the public peace,
[/quote]

You have just spelled out the illegality of that which you have denied to be contrary to the law. I needn't do it for you anymore.

the member may direct the person so suspected to do either or both of the following, that is to say:

(i) desist from acting in such a manner

So, stop filming I guess?

Maybe not a motto but certainly an oath

I HEREBY SOLEMNLY AND SINCERELY DECLARE BEFORE GOD THAT_

I WILL FAITHFULLY DISCHARGE THE DUTIES OF A MEMBER OF THE GARDA SIOCHANA WITH FAIRNESS, INTEGRITY, REGARD FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, DILIGENCE AND IMPARTIALITY, UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE LAW AND ACCORDING EQUAL RESPECT TO ALL PEOPLE.

WHILE I CONTINUE TO BE A MEMBER, I WILL TO THE BEST OF MY SKILL AND KNOWLEDGE DISCHARGE ALL MY DUTIES ACCORDING TO LAW, AND

I DO NOT BELONG TO, AND WILL NOT WHILE I REMAIN A MEMBER FORM, BELONG TO OR SUBSCRIBE TO , ANY POLITICAL PARTY OR SECRET SOCIETY WHATSOEVER".

No mention of protecting the public by the way, your point in the first place giving rise to this citation. It would also appear that Gardaí are executing their oath of office perfectly in protecting the interests of Irish Water and preventing damage to the person and property of Irish Water's agents.

Any comment on this?

A fine example of policing, also that Neurofen is often excellent at dealing with headaches like that.

donvito99 · 01-10-2014 5:18pm

Also this. Love it.

http://imgur.com/Qi7fKs5

And this.

http://imgur.com/a/Owkib

Quin_Dub · 01-10-2014 5:27pm

donvito99 wrote: »

Also this. Love it.

http://imgur.com/Qi7fKs5

And this.

http://imgur.com/a/Owkib

The Bingo one is excellent....

mickydoomsux · 01-10-2014 6:27pm

When the anti-tards have resorted to suggesting that the Gardai are breaking construction health and safety rules or getting upset at a member of the force laughing in their faces then it just goes to show how desperate their pathetic campaign is now that it has basically completely failed.

Most people don't have a problem with paying for water.

That's why it's the same workless wonders showing up in places they don't even live to harass people trying to do a job while normal people get on with their lives.

01-10-2014 6:30pm

mickydoomsux wrote: »

When the anti-tards have resorted to suggesting that the Gardai are breaking construction health and safety rules or getting upset at a member of the force laughing in their faces then it just goes to show how desperate their pathetic campaign is now that it has basically completely failed.

Most people don't have a problem with paying for water.

That's why it's the same workless wonders showing up in places they don't even live to harass people trying to do a job while normal people get on with their lives.

Busy day at FG HQ?

Most people do not want to pay for water yet again, and I doubt anyone wants to pay some of the highest prices in Europe!

mickydoomsux · 01-10-2014 6:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Busy day at FG HQ?

Sick burn and so original.

Now call me a sheep and then tell me to "bend over and take it" (a concept which i find to be quite insulting and homophobic/anti-woman because it assumes that someone doing that is somehow automatically degraded).

01-10-2014 6:35pm

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Sick burn and so original.

Now call me a sheep and then tell me to "bend over and take it" (a concept which i find to be quite insulting and homophobic/anti-woman because it assumes that someone doing that is somehow automatically degraded).

No need to call you anything, its clear and obvious to all.

Berserker · 01-10-2014 6:40pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The Left in Ireland.
All the expenditure...none of the taxes.

After watching videos like this I am so happy that:

1) I am not a lefty.

2) I live in a big house, surrounded by big walls, with electric gates, in a really nice, small private estate.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, the police in this country have a really difficult job when it comes to dealing with 'individuals' like these. A far more aggressive approach is needed.

mickydoomsux · 01-10-2014 6:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No need to call you anything, its clear and obvious to all.

Yeah, obviously if i don't agree with you and buffoons like you who don't understand how things work then i am a member of FG.

Makes perfect sense.

ThisRegard · 01-10-2014 6:44pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Busy day at FG HQ?

Phrases like this need to be added to the Bingo Cards.

Fukuyama · 01-10-2014 6:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you saying the Gardai are above the law? Of course they are not, like anyone else they must comply with the same laws as us, that means they should be wearing safety gear. If they dont want to wear safety gear then no work should be carried out.

Are you a freeman? Or do you subscribe to some similar ideology with regard to the "law of the land"?

I'm not arsed getting into a legalese language talk here because

a) Neither of us are solicitors
b) You seem to use the rigidity of the law to form your own

For all intents and purposes, and to the average bloke in the street, YES, the gardaí are above the law. They can't tell someone to move on for no reason, but when there's a clear and obvious reason, they can. Just like they can't kill someone, but when there's a necessity to do so, they can.

These protesters are breaking the law. They don't assemble peacefully and use tactics (blocking public roads, intimidation, threats) which are illegal. Nobody can be arrested in Ireland for protesting. They can be arrested for public order offences. And it's worth noting that in EVERY Irish Water protest video I've seen that featured an arrest, the guards gave the arrested 10+ opportunities to leave the area and get off scot free.

Getting arrested in Ireland under the Public Order act is virtually impossible. Often it takes over 20 minutes until the garda sees there's no alternative and is left with no choice. Gardaí don't want to arrest people for this childish crap. It involves paperwork, paperwork and possibly a court appearance over something foolish.

These protesters are acting like immature idiots at best, and intimidating mobs at worst.

Timberrrrrrrr · 01-10-2014 6:47pm

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Yeah, obviously if i don't agree with you and buffoons like you who don't understand how things work then i am a member of FG.

Makes perfect sense.

Amazing how they ALWAYS resort to calling posters FG/Labour shills when their points get ripped asunder.

01-10-2014 6:48pm

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Yeah, obviously if i don't agree with you and buffoons like you who don't understand how things work then i am a member of FG.

Makes perfect sense.

Are you a member of FG?

01-10-2014 6:50pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Amazing how they ALWAYS resort to calling posters FG/Labour shills when their points get ripped asunder.

And how do we know that you or other members arent FG members sent here to promote government policy?

I find it amazing how people like you are proud to pay water charges and wear it like a badge of honour.

Im surprised you don't just hand over your wages to the government, it appears you would be happy t do so.

Fukuyama · 01-10-2014 6:51pm

Berserker wrote: »

After watching videos like this I am so happy that:

1) I am not a lefty.

2) I live in a big house, surrounded by big walls, with electric gates, in a really nice, small private estate.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, the police in this country have a really difficult job when it comes to dealing with 'individuals' like these. A far more aggressive approach is needed.

I think in most cases, even a "no nonsense" approach would work. In that video with you man blocking the street, the gardaí spend ages dealing with him. I'd have preferred:

"Morning sir. We got a call about you blocking in the workers. Can you explain that?"

"Yeah, I'm protesting the water m.."

"That's fine. It's illegal to block the street with a car and entrap people. Please move the jeep and van".

"No, see I'm entitled to ..."

"Move them or we'll arrest you and move them for you"

"Well I'm not gona.."

"Grand so." *slaps on cuffs*

Job done. 2 minutes.

end of the road · 01-10-2014 6:53pm

Berserker wrote: »

the police in this country have a really difficult job when it comes to dealing with 'individuals' like these.

thats the nature of the job. its what they signed up for

Berserker wrote: »

A far more aggressive approach is needed.

its not. it was tried before many times and it nearly lead to a blood bath. the current tactics by the guarda are fine. they get the job done safely and without incident

end of the road · 01-10-2014 6:56pm

Dean0088 wrote: »

I think in most cases, even a "no nonsense" approach would work.

it wouldn't and it doesn't. the days of no nonsense are gone as its to dangerous an approach

Dean0088 wrote: »

I'd have preferred:

"Morning sir. We got a call about you blocking in the workers. Can you explain that?"

"Yeah, I'm protesting the water m.."

"That's fine. It's illegal to block the street with a car and entrap people. Please move the jeep and van".

"No, see I'm entitled to ..."

"Move them or we'll arrest you and move them for you"

"Well I'm not gona.."

"Grand so." *slaps on cuffs*

Job done. 2 minutes.

thats exactly what happens currently

Little CuChulainn · 01-10-2014 6:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And how do we know that you or other members arent FG members sent here to promote government policy?

I find it amazing how people like you are proud to pay water charges and wear it like a badge of honour.

Im surprised you don't just hand over your wages to the government, it appears you would be happy t do so.

I do. It's called tax. I'm not exactly surprised you don't know of it.

Little CuChulainn · 01-10-2014 6:59pm

end of the road wrote: »

thats the nature of the job. its what they signed up for

its not. it was tried before many times and it nearly lead to a blood bath. the current tactics by the guarda are fine. they get the job done safely and without incident

The nature of the job is to stop crime, not pander to some over entitled morons who think physical violence and verbal abuse comes under the heading peaceful protest.

Ireland's "Peaceful Protestors" - Pest Control?

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