Ireland could face a fine of €1,000,000,000 (yes, one billion) in EC Apple probe

My name is URL

The $8 billion in back taxes that Apple could owe in the wake of a preliminary report by the European Commission (EC) on Tuesday would be dwarfed by the amount Apple saved through tax deals that the company struck with the Irish government over the past three decades.

Ireland’s 12.5 percent corporate tax rate is low by international standards, but a U.S. Senate subcommittee found last year that Apple has managed to pay an effective tax rate of less than 2 percent and even no taxes on some profits in Ireland.

If the EC decides the tax deal is state aid to Apple, it could fine Ireland up to $1.26 billion and Apple up to 10 percent of its revenue, which could amount to $17 billion. But the preliminary report suggests that the EC would seek “recovery of the aid,” which could be about $8 billion or billions more, depending on how many years of back taxes the EC would seek.

http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-inc-could-owe-8-billion-back-taxes-eu-1697030

What's everyone's take on this? I'm noticing a lot of people who are usually very pro EU, now saying they should mind their own business.. which is a bit ironic really.

Is expecting huge companies to pay their fair share of taxes really a bad thing?

donvito99

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/Drevil_million_dollars.jpg

frozenfrozen

they can take the roads back, we haven't got a ****ing billion to give them!

Remmy

My mind plays elevator music when I see that many zeros

ted1

But we'll also get several billions in back payment, but end up with several hundred thousand in the dole if FDI pulls out

Specialun

We give them a bendy iphone instead

kippy

ted1 wrote: »

But we'll also get several billions in back payment, but end up with several hundred thousand in the dole if FDI pulls out

Not sure why this would lead to all FDI pulling out but anyway.

My name is URL

ted1 wrote: »

But we'll also get several billions in back payment, but end up with several hundred thousand in the dole if FDI pulls out

It doesn't mention that in any articles. They suggest that the EC would be the ones receiving back payments from Apple through fines.

I think, but am open to correction, that if Ireland granted state-aid to Apple and agreed to them paying the tax they paid; then we have no real entitlement to any back payment.

efb

If apple are given that much how much are Intel, Dell et al given?

I worry for Irish jobs. Burosso & Amunia are only taking care of Portugal

Agent Coulson

Europe now know if they say bend over and take your punishment, Ireland will bend over and say thank you.

EyeSight

To pay it we could start charging people for water!

wait...

ted1

kippy wrote: »

Not sure why this would lead to all FDI pulling out but anyway.

Because the cost of doing buisness will increase. Double Irish loophole will be closed.

Fukuyama

8-1=7

So the Irish have pulled off the biggest €7 Billion stroke in history. Should we stick it in the poor box or keep it?

kneemos

Why don't they close the loopholes instead of concentrating on a thirty year old deal?

fleet_admiral

Im beginning to wish the EU would kindly F off

Kermit.de.frog

It's far more likely Apple would have to pay the Irish government in back taxes.

ted1

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Im beginning to wish the EU would kindly F off

Me too. Allowing access to our water should be considered state aid too.

Iwasfrozen

Maybe we should hold a referendum at the same time as the British?

jodaw

The EU. A great bunch of lads!!!

mikom

Enda Kenny says Knowledge economy when shitting on about Apple/twitter/google/ linkedin and Ireland.
All I see is............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqW_5vTBAXw

My name is URL

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's far more likely Apple would have to pay the Irish government in back taxes.

Why so? It's not as if Apple have been hoodwinking us for the last 30 years. The Irish government of the day are the ones that brought that deal to the table!

Cuddlesworth

My name is URL wrote: »

I think, but am open to correction, that if Ireland granted state-aid to Apple and agreed to them paying the tax they paid; then we have no real entitlement to any back payment.

Yep, when the lawyers are done with it and it gets handed to tax consultants it will all drift away. This is between Ireland and the EU.

the groutch

My name is URL wrote: »

It doesn't mention that in any articles. They suggest that the EC would be the ones receiving back payments from Apple through fines.

I think, but am open to correction, that if Ireland granted state-aid to Apple and agreed to them paying the tax they paid; then we have no real entitlement to any back payment.

would the EC have any real entitlement to keep the 8bn though?

jodaw

the groutch wrote: »

would the EC have any real entitlement to keep the 8bn though?

Do you honestly think Ireland would have a say in keeping it?:D

My name is URL

the groutch wrote: »

would the EC have any real entitlement to keep the 8bn though?

I dunno how it'd work but presumably if they were to demand money from Apple it would be through direct fines for breaching antitrust laws and regulations rather than 'back-payment of taxes', so I guess they'd be entitled to do with it as they please as they are the ones responsible for enforcing such regulations.

fleet_admiral

Apple apparently has assets of 652 billion dollars. 8 billion should be a drop in the ocean for them

The government should use the money to build the underground

Tail Docker

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Apple apparently has assets of 652 billion dollars. 8 billion should be a drop in the ocean for them

The government should use the money to build the underground

Yeah? Not put it back into the pension fund they decimated bailing out their buddies?

Iwasfrozen

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Apple apparently has assets of 652 billion dollars. 8 billion should be a drop in the ocean for them

The government should use the money to build the underground

The government should use the money to pay off 4.4% of our debt...

C.K Dexter Haven

frozenfrozen wrote: »

they can take the roads back, we haven't got a ****ing billion to give them!

So, that'll be the Dundrum section of the Luas line. Yeah, I can live with that.:cool:

Tin Foil Hat

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Im beginning to wish the EU would kindly F off

Only now?
Anyone who ever thought that centralising decision making for 27 countries in the German Chancellors office would work in the interests of a small island floating behind another island out in the North Atlantic has an underpants on their head and two pencils up their nose. It is, and always was, an absolutely fukking stoopid idea.

The Diabolical Monocle

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Only now?
Anyone who ever thought that centralising decision making for 27 countries in the German Chancellors office would work in the interests of a small island floating behind another island out in the North Atlantic has an underpants on their head and two pencils up their nose. It is, and always was, an absolutely fukking stoopid idea.

<

---

has an underpants on head.

Tail Docker

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

<

---

has an underpants on head.

What about the pencils?

fleet_admiral

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Only now?
Anyone who ever thought that centralising decision making for 27 countries in the German Chancellors office would work in the interests of a small island floating behind another island out in the North Atlantic has an underpants on their head and two pencils up their nose. It is, and always was, an absolutely fukking stoopid idea.

I have been pro european up until recently. I am finding myself agreeing with David Cameron more and more now and Im fast becoming anti EU

0byme75341jo28

I want to have sex with Angela Merkel.

Satriale

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Only now?
Anyone who ever thought that centralising decision making for 27 countries in the German Chancellors office would work in the interests of a small island floating behind another island out in the North Atlantic has an underpants on their head and two pencils up their nose. It is, and always was, an absolutely fukking stoopid idea.

QFT.
Please run in the next GE...

kippy

ted1 wrote: »

Because the cost of doing buisness will increase. Double Irish loophole will be closed.

I dont think this has anything to do with the double Irish loophole tbh.

fleet_admiral

Lyric Spicy Panel wrote: »

I want to have sex with Angela Merkel.

bet ye she has a massive merkin

RobbingBandit

Lyric Spicy Panel wrote: »

I want to have sex with Angela Merkel.

Turkey Jowls and the ability to channel the spirit of Der Fuhrer is a real turn on.

RobbingBandit

fleet_admiral wrote: »

bet ye she has a massive merkin

It is on her head.

VinLieger

Okay how about we make a deal? We will pay the fine if the EU agree we no longer have to support all the bad gambles their banks made.

Mint Aero

They've a f*cking cheek asking everyone to tighten their belts, and letting the richest of the rich off lightly in tax. C*ntin' f*ck c*nts at their best.

Dyr

You can take our water
You can take our income
But you'll NEVER take our corporate tax rate!

I think that about sums up Irelands priorities

Dempsey

All part of the master plan to have tax harmonisation across the EU.

The EU is showing its true colours and the people of this country still think we can't survive without them. People laughed at Scotland for having Stockholm syndrome...

Augmerson

Dempsey wrote: »

The EU is showing its true colours and the people of this country still think we can't survive without them. People laughed at Scotland for having Stockholm syndrome...

I don't follow.

Scotland, as part of the UK, is still in the EU.

kippy

Dempsey wrote: »

All part of the master plan to have tax harmonisation across the EU.

The EU is showing its true colours and the people of this country still think we can't survive without them. People laughed at Scotland for having Stockholm syndrome...

Eh...we cant.....

WoollyRedHat

Mint Aero wrote: »

They've a f*cking cheek asking everyone to tighten their belts, and letting the richest of the rich off lightly in tax. C*ntin' f*ck c*nts at their best.

We badly need our corporationt tax, if harmonisation is allowed to happen we're in trouble in terms of attracting and keeping multi corporations. It's one of the few things the government has got right.

holystungun9

Lyric Spicy Panel wrote: »

I want to have sex with Angela Merkel.

OMG, yes! So hot to have my hairy gut and her sweaty gunt, rubbing and slapping off each other as we do our sexy naked love dance. Add some clothes pegs, a table tennis paddle, gaffer tape, some wire gauze and a size 17 spanner...now that's a good night!

Also, down with loop holes!

monkeysnapper

Well fcuk it anyway, after years of always wanting a I phone I finally get one... Does this mean I'll have to give it back ?

My name is URL

Augmerson wrote: »

I don't follow.

Scotland, as part of the UK, is still in the EU.

I think he means in so far as that they were 'afraid' to go it alone outside of the UK

Anyway, state-aid to companies is illegal under competition laws. The EC aren't just pulling ideas out of their arse and applying them exclusively to Ireland. Other nations and companies are under the same scrutinies and subject to the same sort of regulation.

Starbucks in the Netherlands and Fiat in Luxembourg are also being investigated at present. Naturally Apple, as the biggest market capataliser in the world is getting most attention.

And it's not about harmonisation, it's about ensuring a basic degree of competitiveness within the EU. Nobody is demanding that we change our CT rate in all of this (though many would like us to), they just want us and other countries to commit to the one we set ourselves, without any underhanded backroom dealings that give us an unfair advantage.

Rucking_Fetard

kneemos wrote: »

Why don't they close the loopholes instead of concentrating on a thirty year old deal?

New Global Plan Would Crack Down On Corporate Tax Avoidance

Dempsey wrote: »

All part of the master plan to have tax harmonisation across the EU.

+1

kippy

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

We badly need our corporationt tax, if harmonisation is allowed to happen we're in trouble in terms of attracting and keeping multi corporations. It's one of the few things the government has got right.

If harmonisation happens in a fair and transparent manner, we're sound.
France and indeed other nations have effective corpo tax rates lower than ours.
The thing we have over them, I believe, is the double Irish thing - which to be honest is probably something that needs getting the heave ho anyway.
At this point a lot of the major multinationals have invested serious money in this country - to pull out would cost significant money, especially IF other states in the EU have the exact same tax laws at that point.

If the government focused on reducing other costs for business, ahead of other states, there might be incentives there to come to Ireland,