Ireland could face a fine of €1,000,000,000 (yes, one billion) in EC Apple probe

My name is URL

Anyone want to do some math and figure out how much every gainfully employed person would need to pay towards a billion euro fine? Has to be in or around €1000 each.

A thousand euro.. because others don't want to pay for the privilege of operating here with massive profits

EmilyHoward

The only way to resolve this is through the use of space cash

diomed

Need a poll
1. Tell them to stick it
2. Tell them to stick it on the tab

darkpagandeath

diomed wrote: »

Need a poll
1. Tell them to stick it
2. Tell them to stick it on the tab

Stick what prey tell ? If Ireland has been breaking/bending the law we have to pay up. I made a thread about large corporations here not paying tax and how long could we hold the EU off on it. Most people were telling me the EU could do absolutely nothing. How very very wrong they were.

Wompa1

kippy wrote: »

At this point a lot of the major multinationals have invested serious money in this country - to pull out would cost significant money

You'd think so wouldn't ya?

Fruit of the Loom closed down all their factories in Ireland and moved them to Morocco. Dell moved from Limerick to Poland.

The media in Ireland tells us every time jobs are created it's because our highly skilled workforce. It's complete and utter muck. Look at the majority of jobs created over the last 2 years....Phone support with French, German, Spanish, Dutch, Italian etc. Mostly hiring in people from other European countries...which is fine but it's not because of our talent pool. It's all about the tax breaks.

We're leading Europe in terms of tech jobs for the big companies. And our University courses in Computer Sciences and IT are woefully behind the curve on where the Industry is at. If we have to compete on the grounds of actual skill and other factors. We're beyond f**ked

Mint Aero

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

We badly need our corporationt tax, if harmonisation is allowed to happen we're in trouble in terms of attracting and keeping multi corporations. It's one of the few things the government has got right.

Why do we need to help Apple avoid tax? It's perpetuating the ever increasing divide between the wealthy and poor in our society. Who has benefited from this in the past decade in Ireland? What has it done for you? Have you had an easy time the past decade? Have the rich gotten off lightly with tax in every aspect whilst the poor where squeezed until they left the country? Do you live in rural Ireland? Do you even have access to internet with more than 1mb of download speed. Why are you paying for both refuse collection and household charge? Why are people in Ireland working a 37 hrs week and getting paid under €6.50 per hour? why are people under 25 working 37hrs a week and getting paid under €4 per hour? Why does our Taoiseach earn more than both the president of America & the prime minister of England?

Perhaps Irish should begin to look at their country in the macro instead of the micro all the time. We then might actually contribute a better place for our nations children to grow up and actually live in someday instead of whoring our resources out to the "big man" with a flashy watch.

anncoates

Expect to see a new IPhone 6.5 Super + rushed out if they end up getting fined.

crannglas

Funny how Irish people will pay this money back also. Should be the people who gave go ahead for tax breaks to pay it. And don't tell me EU UK and USA and other countries didn't benefit from Ireland's laws. Bunch of leeches

crannglas

Funny how Irish people will pay this money back also. Should be the people who gave go ahead for tax breaks to pay it. And don't tell me EU UK and USA and other countries didn't benefit from Ireland's laws. Bunch of leeches

crannglas

EmilyHoward wrote: »

The only way to resolve this is through the use of space cash

Space cash? Is there a hidden stash Emily?

Frank Lee Midere

My name is URL wrote: »

I think he means in so far as that they were 'afraid' to go it alone outside of the UK

Anyway, state-aid to companies is illegal under competition laws. The EC aren't just pulling ideas out of their arse and applying them exclusively to Ireland. Other nations and companies are under the same scrutinies and subject to the same sort of regulation.

Starbucks in the Netherlands and Fiat in Luxembourg are also being investigated at present. Naturally Apple, as the biggest market capataliser in the world is getting most attention.

And it's not about harmonisation, it's about ensuring a basic degree of competitiveness within the EU. Nobody is demanding that we change our CT rate in all of this (though many would like us to), they just want us and other countries to commit to the one we set ourselves, without any underhanded backroom dealings that give us an unfair advantage.

And yet a PWC and World Bank report stated that while irelands declared corporate tax is 12.5% the effective rate is 11.9%. Meanwhile France has a declared rate of 33% and and effective rate of 8.5%.

The investigation needs to widen.

Frank Lee Midere

crannglas wrote: »

Funny how Irish people will pay this money back also. Should be the people who gave go ahead for tax breaks to pay it. And don't tell me EU UK and USA and other countries didn't benefit from Ireland's laws. Bunch of leeches

We are actually owed the back taxes. Not the EU. The fines are a different matter.

Frank Lee Midere

My name is URL wrote: »

Anyone want to do some math and figure out how much every gainfully employed person would need to pay towards a billion euro fine? Has to be in or around €1000 each.

A thousand euro.. because others don't want to pay for the privilege of operating here with massive profits

We really had bog all to do with these profits. Not a line of iPhone code was written in Cork. The US has a right to be outraged however.

crannglas

Funny how Irish people will pay this money back also. Should be the people who gave go ahead for tax breaks to pay it. And don't tell me EU UK and USA and other countries didn't benefit from Ireland's laws. Bunch of leeches

Frank Lee Midere

Wompa1 wrote: »

You'd think so wouldn't ya?

Fruit of the Loom closed down all their factories in Ireland and moved them to Morocco. Dell moved from Limerick to Poland.

The media in Ireland tells us every time jobs are created it's because our highly skilled workforce. It's complete and utter muck. Look at the majority of jobs created over the last 2 years....Phone support with French, German, Spanish, Dutch, Italian etc. Mostly hiring in people from other European countries...which is fine but it's not because of our talent pool. It's all about the tax breaks.

We're leading Europe in terms of tech jobs for the big companies. And our University courses in Computer Sciences and IT are woefully behind the curve on where the Industry is at. If we have to compete on the grounds of actual skill and other factors. We're beyond f**ked

I don't know if our tech courses are as bad as you say. After coming back to Ireland after a decade abroad I've been fairly impressed by the quality if Irish grads.

But it doesn't matter anyway. If companies have well paid highly skilled workers originating from anywhere based in any one country it's hard to shift them. Software companies aren't going to Poland because who wants to earn polish wages? Not even the highly skilled Poles.

Wompa1

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

I don't know if our tech courses are as bad as you say. After coming back to Ireland after a decade abroad I've been fairly impressed by the quality if Irish grads.

I've been impressed by some Irish Grads too. But I've been more impressed by people I've worked with in the states so far. Much stronger work ethic and thirst for knowledge....also, most of them haven't even gone to college, they did courses. Which seems to have produced very rounded skills and also no BS theories perpetrated by lecturers who have never worked in a large enterprise.

Just my opinion. Also, over here many of the colleges\Universities require lecturers to actively work in their field. Not just doing research. Personally, I think that would be beneficial in Ireland.

Right now we have lectures that hold on for years and learn as the students learn. When I was in college my lecturer spent a month during the summer learning a programming language. He then taught it to us for 2 semesters. He didn't have a clue!

Aidric

Apple has more cash on its balance sheet then it knows what to do with it. A fine, even at the numbers quoted, wouldn't overly concern them.

That G8 meeting that was held in NI last year put tax avoidance at the top of the agenda and perhaps Europe under new commissioner Almunia are trying to take a lead. I assume they will pursue LX/NL/GB with the same line of inquiry?

Rabbo

When did the EU change from being a collection of countries agreeing on free trade and movement to an authority who's main function is to tell it's member countries what to do. What's the point in being a sovereign nation anymore , we are really creeping towards a United States of Europe.

The Brits are a much more powerful country than us and even they are getting fed up with this

bmm

The whole story is total exaggeration and spin by the media who never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Apple will probably get a refund of a few million for overpaying tax !

Donald73

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

And yet a PWC and World Bank report stated that while irelands declared corporate tax is 12.5% the effective rate is 11.9%. Meanwhile France has a declared rate of 33% and and effective rate of 8.5%.

The investigation needs to widen.

If this is true then have they gone and issued fines to companies utilising this rate in France and to France themselves.Because if not then they should be told to kiss our arses until they do so.

Peregrine

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2014/09/29/barking-up-the-wrong-apple-tree/#more-17001

Interesting article..

Frank Lee Midere

Wompa1 wrote: »

I've been impressed by some Irish Grads too. But I've been more impressed by people I've worked with in the states so far. Much stronger work ethic and thirst for knowledge....also, most of them haven't even gone to college, they did courses. Which seems to have produced very rounded skills and also no BS theories perpetrated by lecturers who have never worked in a large enterprise.

Just my opinion. Also, over here many of the colleges\Universities require lecturers to actively work in their field. Not just doing research. Personally, I think that would be beneficial in Ireland.

Right now we have lectures that hold on for years and learn as the students learn. When I was in college my lecturer spent a month during the summer learning a programming language. He then taught it to us for 2 semesters. He didn't have a clue!

I agree that the US is good at the highest level. Remember that Silicon Valley is getting the best in the world and from the US itself.

Valetta

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Only now?
Anyone who ever thought that centralising decision making for 27 countries in the German Chancellors office would work in the interests of a small island floating behind another island out in the North Atlantic has an underpants on their head and two pencils up their nose. It is, and always was, an absolutely fukking stoopid idea.

Apt user name.

c_man

I wish Apple and the likes paid a fair amount of tax. It's not fair that if I were to form a computer/software company tomorrow, that they get an unfair advantage from the government in regards to this. Imagine if Apple themselves were strangled at birth due to the US gov taking a more favourable few of the established companies of the time?

That being said, lol at the EU imposing fines. Did the Irish taxpayer not get fuked enough to satisfy them? Any chance of fines for the other EU countries which favour their own domestic companies? Nah, didn't think so. Ireland's a nice handy target with a household brand that earns the ire of plenty of Joe's in the street. Much more sellable for outrage than say the UK government and BAE weapons. We've little to no clout. It's a big boys club.

ClovenHoof

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Im beginning to wish the EU would kindly F off

Bet you voted YES to the Lisbon Treaty twice and called anyone who voted NO a "conspiracy theorist".