2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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Actually the exact opposite.
Republicans are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill once again while ignoring the plank in their own eye.

Overheal

Permabear wrote: »

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Well you must have me on ignore or something then :rolleyes: don't cry echo-chamber and then ignore people who reply to your comments.

Are you suggesting that those people who care about the ethical implications of Sanders' staffers' actions should "take it to PM" while ceding the public fora to those who want to bray loudly about Trump and other Republicans?

Don't be daft, discuss it here with all the other people who are talking about it. There's just not much to say on such a small burp in the presidential race. If Sanders had instructed his camp to look at the data we'd have a completely different discussion. Sanders apologized, Clinton accepted the apology, both agreed to investigate the matter, the DNC has since restored access to his voter rolls, the staffers involved have been fired, the incident has been effectively resolved. What more would you like, righteous indignation? I'm voting for Sanders, not his fired staffer.

oscarBravo

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Neither. You can tell that I'm not suggesting it by the simple fact that I didn't say it. Don't read between the lines; I didn't write between them.

Feel free to discuss it to your heart's content with whomever else feels it's a more significant issue than whatever large swathe of humanity the Republican field is currently busy alienating.

Personally, I think Trump's idea of a religious test for immigration is a much, much bigger deal. How silly of me.

Overheal

Politifact details why Donald Trump is 2015's liar of the year

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/dec/21/2015-lie-year-donald-trump-campaign-misstatements/

"You can't con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you don't deliver the goods, people will eventually catch on." - Donald Trump, Art of The Deal

WarZ

Permabear wrote: »

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I'm pretty sure that there is much more international coverage given to the millions of people starving in Africa than to the homeless problem in Dublin so I am not sure what your point is here.

Also, is that a tacit admittance that the Republican gaffes are in fact far worse than the this particular incident? After all, the homeless crisis in Dublin is a drop in the ocean compared to the millions starving in Africa.

Overheal

From: Hillary Clinton
Date: Saturday, December 19, 2015
Subject: I need your help.

Friend --

I don't know how else to say it except by saying it: We could lose the nomination.

The other candidates on that stage tonight would like nothing more than for our team to sit back and relax right now, but I am not taking anything for granted.

You can't either, I need your help.

Let's show the world that we're going to fight hard, secure the Democratic nomination, and go on to the White House. I know you'll step up when I need you. Chip in $1 today:

<<DONATE $1>>

Thanks,

Hillary

Permabear

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oscarBravo

Permabear wrote: »

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You can do whatever the hell you want, but how dare you misrepresent me when I've made it perfectly clear that I suggested no such thing.

I'm genuinely shocked. That's a debating tactic that I thought was way, way beneath you.

K-9

So basically you are not happy that Irish political boards tend to be pro Democrat and critical of Republicans.

You probably haven't noticed that Amerika and the pro Republican posters tend to do whataboutery as well.

So in short, partisan political posters are partisan shocking revelation!

Permabear

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Overheal

Permabear wrote: »

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Show us in the quotes where OscarBravo said what you claim he said:

oscarBravo wrote: »

Then perhaps the people who do care can discuss among themselves the national security implications of Democratic candidates accessing each other's email lists, while studiously ignoring Republican candidates' desires to promote islamophobia, alienate minorities, and deny women access to reproductive rights.

oscarBravo wrote: »

Neither. You can tell that I'm not suggesting it by the simple fact that I didn't say it. Don't read between the lines; I didn't write between them.

Feel free to discuss it to your heart's content with whomever else feels it's a more significant issue than whatever large swathe of humanity the Republican field is currently busy alienating.

Personally, I think Trump's idea of a religious test for immigration is a much, much bigger deal. How silly of me.

Clutching at straws; seeing things that don't actually exist - and no, these posts were not edited.

K-9

Permabear wrote: »

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Mod:

OB clarified it for you twice. You can pm him if you wish, but please stop cluttering the thread up with it. Thank you.

Overheal

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

1 of 4 staffers was fired, and an investigation is underway. Hardly a deflection away from the possible ethics violations.

Denial: Claim that it's a non-issue and insist that "nobody cares" (even though many people do care).

Neither candidate involved indicated that they "care" in so much that they feel affronted. Sanders is still grieved that the DNC set up the debates for Hillary's benefit and temporarily stripped his access to his own records but that smaller matter appears to have been expediently resolved.

Red herring: Go back to talking about Trump and Muslims more loudly than ever, to drown out any potential criticism of Sanders.

This is amusing.

Perhaps Trump should discontinue trying to make headlines then if he wants to give more attention to perceived scandals in the Democratic primaries. I'll entertain any criticism of Sanders you like, a favorite among facebook trolls is to insinuate he is a misogynistic pedophile, which is always worth a few laughs.

JPNelsforearm

Overheal wrote: »

I'll entertain any criticism of Sanders you like, a favorite among facebook trolls is to insinuate he is a misogynistic pedophile, which is always worth a few laughs.

SNIP.

This is below the standard expected here. Please read the charter before posting again.

Overheal

I always thought that whole BLM spat was totally misguided; the man marched alongside Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. for civil liberties.

"This country has socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor." - Rev. Martin Luther King Jr

Confronted Saturday by protesters at the Netroots Nation conference in Phoenix chanting “Black lives matter!” and “What side are you on?” Sanders was clearly annoyed. “Black lives, of course, matter,” the populist and self-described socialist senator said. “I spent 50 years of my life fighting for civil rights and for dignity…If you don’t want me to be here, that’s OK. I don’t want to outscream people.”

Manach

Overheal wrote: »

the man marched alongside Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. for civil liberties.

Well that clearly disqualifies Mr. Sanders: he was/is clearly the puppet of Religious extremists who wanted to tear down the Church/State wall and impose a theocratic state. :rolleyes:

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

Oh, all those issues which hang over Clinton's head, plus more like her shakedown of people, businesses and countries into donating to her campaign "charity," will come out big time in the general election.

It's no longer "news." What's the ole American expression during their war for independence? "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes?" Well, the Republicans unloaded their muskets too early, and the email controversy and Benghazi story and "charity" CT claim have already run their courses in the news media and are now mostly archive. That's why it's called "news" in journalism, because it's "new" and interesting to the audience, not the same old thing drug up from past archives that's now boring, and does not increase media ratings that draw an audience and associated advertiser profits.

The GOP and its followers need to read Republican outsider Trump's 1987 book on deal making regarding how to manipulate the news media for free and frequent press (pp 56-57 if memory serves me right). That's why most of the GOP established presidential candidates continue to find themselves flat-footed in the polls, all but 2 in the single digits while Trump is in the 20s, 30s, and one 41%. It's all about entertainment and something "new," not about right or wrong, and the Americans just love "new" surprises in their pseudo-reality telly shows, and celebrity entertainer Trump is giving it to them. They may love him, or hate him, but they are constantly tuning in to listen to his next outrageous, controversial, nonsensical, and sometimes bigoted statement by the droves. He is "news," not something in the past that established GOP hope to someday resurrect from the archives of public disinterest.

Some posters here claim that "Republicans" (and we are really talking Trump here) are getting more attention and criticism in US Politics [prefix], well, that's exactly what Trump wants, and it's working for him in Eire just like it's working in USA (sometimes world wide). Instead of crying about the so-called liberal leaning media, when is the GOP leadership and its followers going to wake up to what Trump is doing to them, both Republicans and Democrats alike? If he can keep his pseudo-reality show going with top ratings and associated advertiser profits into the primaries and then the November GE, he just might steal the 2016 presidency out from under both established parties. And if Trump does that to the American people, then they deserve what they get.

Overheal

Speaking of new news, a Trump supporter has been arrested in San Francisco after police were tipped off he was planning to attack Muslims

http://www.mediaite.com/online/trump-supporter-arrested-for-alleged-planning-to-bomb-muslims/

http://www.peacock-panache.com/2015/12/william-celi-anti-muslim-terrorism-plot20914.html

Richmond police said they can’t elaborate on the threats other than to say that Celli’s actions and statements drew the attention of law enforcement, and were very concerning to officers.

Celli appeared to be a supporter of Presidential candidate Donald Trump. A post on his Facebook page said he would follow Trump “to the end of the world.”

No one was injured.

In addition to the message that he would follow Trump “to the end of the world,” Celli filled his social media account with loads of pro-Trump and anti-Muslim rhetoric.

“Donald trumps on again I’m happy leaders okay but this guys a great point man I’ll follow this MAN to the end of the world,” Celli posted to Facebook on October 21st.

A week later he said, “Donald Trump’s on again I’m feeling good about myself.”

Referring to his work as a self-employed plumber, Celli argued last year he lost work and wages due to undocumented immigrants storming the borders to take jobs and welfare benefits. “I have lost 30%of my business to to Hispanics coming to my country under false pretenses an and freeload in construction or in the blue collar sector they need to go back home lets not talk about the welfare they suck dry,” he said in June of 2014.

Police evacuated the neighborhood before detonating a device found at his home.

This is the type of thing people worry about when you spout a bunch of that "free media" nonsense Black Swan alludes to while never doing anything to correct your followers or check their outrage. A normal person would have long by now told their supporters not to consider such acts of violence; rather Trump is the kind of guy to watch his supporters kick and beat a man at one of his rallies - "Maybe he should have been roughed up," coming about 3 months after saying "we must treat each other with respect. I would never condone violence."

...in response to supporters beating up a Hispanic homeless man. So clearly that was a lie, and the man lacks any integrity of character.

edit: oh, and he predacated that mobbing just a couple weeks before he said he would never condone violence!

Not even the president and already creating his own terrorists. Gods forbid he gets control of a fleet of Predator and Reaper drones, flying off to violate the Geneva Conventions.

Much more is required from this candidate in terms of taking responsibility for being a leader if he wishes to gain the votes of the lunatic fringe. But he's already proven that he deserves his place on the terror watch list - at least that's what list I hope he's on.

Overheal

Wow the complete lack of response to the above news is telling :rolleyes:;)

Hande hoche!

Overheal wrote: »

Wow the complete lack of response to the above news is telling :rolleyes:;)

So a supporter of someone did something bad, not exactly earth shattering. http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/muslim-woman-attacked-at-indiana-cafe-by-drunken-bernie-sanders-supporter-yelling-white-power/.

MonkeyTennis

It is my belief that Trump will not win the Republican nomination. When the others drop out either Cruz or Rubio will overtake him. I truly believe he has shone a spotlight onto deep racism not only in america but across the world.

In my opinion he gave a voice to racism and sexism that many now feel acceptable and yes in Ireland too

Black Swan

Once again we should be cautioned about the simple adding of very different polling organisations and methodologies as RCP does with their average percentages. To not commit the same error, the two below polling organisations will be treated separately, and it may become evident that their respective results are quite different for the race between Trump and Cruz.

CNN/ORC polls taken 27 Nov - 1 Dec compared with 17-21 Dec show the Trump percentage grow from 36 to 39%, while during the same two time periods polled Cruz grew from 16 to 18%, consequently for the CNN/ORC polls the Cruz growth had been offset by Trump's growth maintaining Trump's significant lead over Cruz.

Quinnipiac polls taken 23-30 Nov and 16-20 Dec show the Trump percentage grow from only 27 to 28%, which was so close to the poll confidences intervals to be essentially the same; i.e., flat. This was compared to a significant growth in percentage for Cruz from 16 to 24% coming close to Trump's 28%.

Not sure how to interpret the very different polling outcomes, except when one candidate claims they are closing the gap, it may appear so with one polling organisation, but not another, and of course the candidate will pick the one that favours their best interests.

Colonialboy

K-9 wrote: »

So basically you are not happy that Irish political boards tend to be pro Democrat and critical of Republicans.

You probably haven't noticed that Amerika and the pro Republican posters tend to do whataboutery as well.

So in short, partisan political posters are partisan shocking revelation!

in short ... your saying democrats are partisan.
I find the subtle paradox in 'democrats are partisan' interesting in its exposure of human nature.
Most people are partisan about what they believe in I guess. With few people able to balance all views objectively , extracting whats best.

The lack of discussion in this thread of the numerous scandals the clintons have been caught up in is pretty astounding. More manifestation of 'democrats are partisan' effect.
Most people seem caught up on the populist sensationalist soundbites the media have chosen to highlight from Trump. Theres been very little discussion of Trumps economic policy, loss of manufacturing jobs, the widening wealth gap, opiate explosion etc etc in the US.
Also isnt it interesting how much Wall St has come out against Trump, could the enemy of my enemy be my friend.
The discussion here has become very one dimensional, Id have hoped intelligent debate would be multi-faceted.

Having said that Im still looking forward to ongoing debate,and am enjoying this discussion.

Oh and any 'partisan' who wants to accuse me of a particualr leaning, go ahead, but Im not interested in responding to that, I dont have time to waste justifying or denying a position I havent actually stated just so some poster can pidgeon hole me in one of their partisan boxes. (but i bet some people cant resist, they cant handle a world where they cant put everyone and everyones opinion in a very confined box).

InTheTrees

Colonialboy wrote: »

in short ... your saying democrats are partisan.

Well duh.

Anyone that self identifies as either Republican or Democrat is partisan right?

InTheTrees

Colonialboy wrote: »

The lack of discussion in this thread of the numerous scandals the clintons have been caught up in is pretty astounding.

Oh and any 'partisan' who wants to accuse me of a particualr leaning, go ahead, but Im not interested in responding to that, I dont have time to waste justifying or denying a position I havent actually stated just so some poster can pidgeon hole me in one of their partisan boxes.

ha ha ha

Your position is absolutely clear.

:rolleyes:

K-9

Colonialboy wrote: »

in short ... your saying democrats are partisan.
I find the subtle paradox in 'democrats are partisan' interesting in its exposure of human nature.
Most people are partisan about what they believe in I guess. With few people able to balance all views objectively , extracting whats best.

The lack of discussion in this thread of the numerous scandals the clintons have been caught up in is pretty astounding. More manifestation of 'democrats are partisan' effect.
Most people seem caught up on the populist sensationalist soundbites the media have chosen to highlight from Trump. Theres been very little discussion of Trumps economic policy, loss of manufacturing jobs, the widening wealth gap, opiate explosion etc etc in the US.
Also isnt it interesting how much Wall St has come out against Trump, could the enemy of my enemy be my friend.
The discussion here has become very one dimensional, Id have hoped intelligent debate would be multi-faceted.

Having said that Im still looking forward to ongoing debate,and am enjoying this discussion.

Oh and any 'partisan' who wants to accuse me of a particualr leaning, go ahead, but Im not interested in responding to that, I dont have time to waste justifying or denying a position I havent actually stated just so some poster can pidgeon hole me in one of their partisan boxes. (but i bet some people cant resist, they cant handle a world where they cant put everyone and everyones opinion in a very confined box).

No "side" has the monopoly on partisan posters.

Clinton emails and other stuff was brought up many times if you go back, thinking it wasn't would be wrong.

Overheal

You really don't see people cheerleading for Hillary either. It's like, we COULD circle the wagons about Christie and bridges and pig crates but doesn't anyone care about Christie? Nope. Same for Hillary it seems.

On social media all I see are the right wingers going militant against Hillary because they see her as a threat, and I'm just here knowing I won't even vote for her in the Primary.

Manach

Because did not already seem like a TV reality show gone bad already may I present Mr. McAfee:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/12/24/mcafee-run-libertarian-party-candidate-president/77877980/

K-9

Overheal wrote: »

You really don't see people cheerleading for Hillary either. It's like, we COULD circle the wagons about Christie and bridges and pig crates but doesn't anyone care about Christie? Nope. Same for Hillary it seems.

On social media all I see are the right wingers going militant against Hillary because they see her as a threat, and I'm just here knowing I won't even vote for her in the Primary.

The other big thing is, Trump is dividing Republican opinion, never mind the usual R vs. D. divide. The Democratic side just isn't as fractious or bitter.

Go back to 08 and the divide was Hilary vs. Obama.

Black Swan

The Quinnipiac polls for the 3 Democrat presidential candidates may suggest a tracking trend leading into their primaries (although these percentages are only descriptive and not inferential, and should be viewed with caution)?

Poll taken | Clinton | Sanders | O'Malley
17-21 Sep | 43 | 25 | 0
29 Oct-2 Nov | 53 | 35 | 0
23-30 Nov | 60 | 30 | 2
16-20 Dec | 61 | 30 | 2