2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Permabear

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First Up

Permabear wrote: »

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I wouldn't get too excited about it. 10% of Democrats voted for McCain in 2012 and 10% voted for Bush in 2004.

my friend

First Up wrote: »

I can understand why supporters of the un-electable Trump are desperately hoping that the Dems reciprocate by nominating the equally un-electable Sanders.

It ain't going to happen, but enjoy the dream while it lasts.

Trump is more electable than Hilary , only a disconnected RTE fed gullible believes otherwise

Trump is capable of getting Democratic votes whereas Hilary can't even get full support from the Democratic Party

Permabear

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First Up

my friend wrote: »

Trump is more electable than Hilary , only a disconnected RTE fed gullible believes otherwise

Trump is capable of getting Democratic votes whereas Hilary can't even get full support from the Democratic Party

You think Trump has the support of a united GOP? Where have you been?

my friend

First Up wrote: »

You think Trump has the support of a united GOP? Where have you been?

He's gaining support continuously in spite of them, where have you been?

First Up

Permabear wrote: »

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Noteworthy, but insignificant in electoral terms. There is always cross-over in presidential elections. Many Republicans of Irish origin voted for Kennedy, the "Reagan Democrats" were significant and McCain drew support from older white voters unimpressed with the idea of a black president.

All the serious analysis (including the GOP's own) shows that the Republicans must either broaden their electoral base or risk extinction. Obama got over 80% of the combined minority vote in both his elections. You think Trump is the sort of candidate to entice them back?

The Republicans are in disarray over Trump - Paul Ryan is now being groomed as his alternative. Far more Republicans will either vote for Clinton or abstain than Dems will vote for Trump.

Thargor

Permabear wrote: »

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Its the same old problem with those polls though, they still dont ring cellphone numbers, only landlines, that introduces an immediate bias thats getting worse every year.

First Up

my friend wrote: »

He's gaining support continuously in spite of them, where have you been?

Not in cloud cuckoo land anyway. Trump appeals to the same narrow - and declining - demographic as Palin and the Tea Party nutters (remember them?) It isn't remotely close to being enough to win, no matter how loudly they chant and how many flags they wave.

K-9

Permabear wrote: »

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If a similar or larger amount of Republicans wouldn't vote Trump not that noteworthy though.

Many don't like Clinton as we know, but we also know many detest Trump, maybe the least detestable would win in a showdown between them!

my friend

First Up wrote: »

Noteworthy, but insignificant in electoral terms. There is always cross-over in presidential elections. Many Republicans of Irish origin voted for Kennedy, the "Reagan Democrats" were significant and McCain drew support from older white voters unimpressed with the idea of a black president.

All the serious analysis (including the GOP's own) shows that the Republicans must either broaden their electoral base or risk extinction. Obama got over 80% of the combined minority vote in both his elections. You think Trump is the sort of candidate to entice them back?

The Republicans are in disarray over Trump - Paul Ryan is now being groomed as his alternative. Far more Republicans will either vote for Clinton or abstain than Dems will vote for Trump.

Why do you knee jerk attack anyone that accepts the Trump phenomenon

You don't have to be a fan to accept the impact

You don't have to be a fan to accept Hilary is 'hated' by a large % of the voters

Hilary is a very divisive figure, I've rarely seen non political Individuals get so animated about a politician as I've seen when Hilary pops up

I have at times been shocked at the vitriol otherwise seemingly reserved and or calm people hold for her , in 3 decades living and working in various parts of the US she is the only person capable of dragging the 'c' word out of Americans

You really have to ask yourself, what's the source of that?

Permabear

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walshyn93

First Up wrote: »

You think Trump has the support of a united GOP? Where have you been?

Do you think any republicans will vote for Sanders or many for Hillary?

walshyn93

First Up wrote: »

Noteworthy, but insignificant in electoral terms. There is always cross-over in presidential elections. Many Republicans of Irish origin voted for Kennedy, the "Reagan Democrats" were significant and McCain drew support from older white voters unimpressed with the idea of a black president.

All the serious analysis (including the GOP's own) shows that the Republicans must either broaden their electoral base or risk extinction. Obama got over 80% of the combined minority vote in both his elections. You think Trump is the sort of candidate to entice them back?

The Republicans are in disarray over Trump - Paul Ryan is now being groomed as his alternative. Far more Republicans will either vote for Clinton or abstain than Dems will vote for Trump.

Where is the evidence that Paul Ryan is being groomed to replace him?

First Up

my friend wrote: »

Why do you knee jerk attack anyone that accepts the Trump phenomenon

You don't have to be a fan to accept the impact

You don't have to be a fan to accept Hilary is 'hated' by a large % of the voters

Hilary is a very divisive figure, I've rarely seen non political Individuals get so animated about a politician as I've seen when Hilary pops up

I have at times been shocked at the vitriol otherwise seemingly reserved and or calm people hold for her , in 3 decades living and working in various parts of the US she is the only person capable of dragging the 'c' word out of Americans

You really have to ask yourself, what's the source of that?

Nothing "knee jerk" about looking beyond the headlines and seeing the bigger picture. You cannot win a presidential election with the support of only one section of the electorate.

It is perfectly obvious that Trump has strong appeal to a specific demographic - older, white, less educated and mostly male. He has virtually no appeal beyond that and he actually scares the bejaysus out of large sections of the population. Clinton is not exactly warm and cuddly and she is certainly disliked on a personal level. But she is seen as both competent and a steady hand. I doubt we will see people weeping with joy on her election night but if its Trump V Clinton, it is no contest.

First Up

walshyn93 wrote: »

Where is the evidence that Paul Ryan is being groomed to replace him?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/11/paul-ryan-the-gops-anti-trump/

Paul Ryan is rapidly emerging as Republicans’ anti-Trump

On the campaign trail, the GOP race for president can probably best be described so far as chaotic.

Back in Washington, House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) is trying to steer the ship of his party into much calmer waters. Over the past week, he has given multiple interviews in which his ideas and tone have come across as the opposite of the inflammatory rhetoric and in-fighting taking place among his fellow conservatives vying for the White House — most notably, of course, GOP front-runner Donald Trump.

walshyn93

my friend wrote: »

Why do you knee jerk attack anyone that accepts the Trump phenomenon

You don't have to be a fan to accept the impact

You don't have to be a fan to accept Hilary is 'hated' by a large % of the voters

Hilary is a very divisive figure, I've rarely seen non political Individuals get so animated about a politician as I've seen when Hilary pops up

I have at times been shocked at the vitriol otherwise seemingly reserved and or calm people hold for her , in 3 decades living and working in various parts of the US she is the only person capable of dragging the 'c' word out of Americans

You really have to ask yourself, what's the source of that?

If her finally being brought to justice is contingent upon Trump winning expect a lot of people to vote for Trump. A large number of people would wait 4 years for a democrat just to see her get what she deserves.

walshyn93

First Up wrote: »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/11/paul-ryan-the-gops-anti-trump/

Paul Ryan is rapidly emerging as Republicans’ anti-Trump

On the campaign trail, the GOP race for president can probably best be described so far as chaotic.

Back in Washington, House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) is trying to steer the ship of his party into much calmer waters. Over the past week, he has given multiple interviews in which his ideas and tone have come across as the opposite of the inflammatory rhetoric and in-fighting taking place among his fellow conservatives vying for the White House — most notably, of course, GOP front-runner Donald Trump.

There's nothing in that article to convince anyone he's gearing up for a run. They might like to interpret it as him "steering into calmer waters" what other will interpret it as is misjudging the tone of the campaign. His favourables are also abysmal. He'll never break 40% favourable.

my friend

First Up wrote: »

Nothing "knee jerk" about looking beyond the headlines and seeing the bigger picture. You cannot win a presidential election with the support of only one section of the electorate.

It is perfectly obvious that Trump has strong appeal to a specific demographic - older, white, less educated and mostly male. He has virtually no appeal beyond that and he actually scares the bejaysus out of large sections of the population. Clinton is not exactly warm and cuddly and she is certainly disliked on a personal level. But she is seen as both competent and a steady hand. I doubt we will see people weeping with joy on her election night but if its Trump V Clinton, it is no contest.

The poll booth for Trump will beat his poll numbers

In a Trump v Hilary showdown

Trump will take her apart, the latest revelations about Hilarys deliberate instructions to mishandle classified documents is very damaging , add in Bills rape stories resurfacing, the Clintons enrichment since leaving the White House, upcoming Haiti charity scandals

Hilary will be firefighting from the centre of a circle

Trump will win people over as the campaign rolls

Trump is looking like Reagan V2.0

walshyn93

my friend wrote: »

The poll booth for Trump will beat his poll numbers

In a Trump v Hilary showdown

Trump will take her apart, the latest revelations about Hilarys deliberate instructions to mishandle classified documents is very damaging , add in Bills rape stories resurfacing, the Clintons enrichment since leaving the White House, upcoming Haiti charity scandals

Hilary will be firefighting from the centre of a circle

Trump will win people over as the campaign rolls

Trump is looking like Reagan V2.0

He may revive Jeb's insult "chaos candidate". Who wants a president embroiled in scandal the whole time. Real scandal, not just outlandish statements.

johnnyskeleton

my friend wrote: »

Trump is more electable than Hilary , only a disconnected RTE fed gullible believes otherwise

Trump is capable of getting Democratic votes whereas Hilary can't even get full support from the Democratic Party

First Up wrote: »

You think Trump has the support of a united GOP? Where have you been?

my friend wrote: »

He's gaining support continuously in spite of them, where have you been?

Mod Note:

This forum is for serious debate not bickering. my friend, please don't make comments such as "disconnected RTE fed gullible" and the like as it is poor quality debate.

InTheTrees

Colonialboy wrote: »

if Hilary is such a erstwhile, honourable and treasured law maker ... then why isnt she upholding the law and supporting her president .

Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton joined her rivals Monday in opposing the Obama administration's deportation raids targeting Central American immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally and ignored deportation orders.[/I.

??

Shes not secretary of state anymore you know? Shes running a campaign tor the election this November.

Do you think all candidates have to hold the same opinions?

InTheTrees

my friend wrote: »

Hilary is cooked, FBI investigation is exposing her real flaws, Iowa polls show Bernie neck and neck!!

Neck and neck with Bernie! Wow

That's embarrassing

If you havent watched the US primary process before there can be many ups and downs.

The US is a very varied place. Geographically its as large as Europe and there can be huge differences in peoples attitudes.

A northern socialist to winning the South would be remarkable. Remember the Clintons are from Arkansas.

InTheTrees

my friend wrote: »

Trump is more electable than Hilary , only a disconnected RTE fed gullible believes otherwise

Trump is capable of getting Democratic votes whereas Hilary can't even get full support from the Democratic Party

Really?

How do you think a casino owner candidate is going to go down in the Bible belt?

You think Utah will go for Trump?

Trump hasn't even said whether he's for or against abortion yet. For a large proportion of southern voters that is the only issue they vote on. Pat robertson and his followers will never vote for anyone pro-choice for instance.

And thats just the abortion issue. Then there's gambling. Its illegal throughout most of the USA. There's no bookmakers on every high street like in Ireland. You have to go to Las Vegas or an Indian Reservation. Attitudes to gambling are stuck in the Victorian age probably due to the massive religious lobby in the us.

walshyn93

InTheTrees wrote: »

Really?

How do you think a casino owner candidate is going to go down in the Bible belt?

You think Utah will go for Trump?

Trump hasn't even said whether he's for or against abortion yet. For a large proportion of southern voters that is the only issue they vote on. Pat robertson and his followers will never vote for anyone pro-choice for instance.

And thats just the abortion issue. Then there's gambling. Its illegal throughout most of the USA. There's no bookmakers on every high street like in Ireland. You have to go to Las Vegas or an Indian Reservation. Attitudes to gambling are stuck in the Victorian age probably due to the massive religious lobby in the us.

Trump has already said he's pro-life. The only thing the Bible Belt hates more than gays and abortions is Hillary Rodham Clinton. He's not known as a casino gambling mogul he's known as a property mogul. You're talking about things that haven't been issues in this campaign and are unlikely to stick. The idea that his casino history is going to hurt his campaign is fanciful wishful thinking.

Permabear

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InTheTrees

my friend wrote: »

You don't have to be a fan to accept Hilary is 'hated' by a large % of the voters

Hilary is a very divisive figure, I've rarely seen non political Individuals get so animated about a politician as I've seen when Hilary pops up

I have at times been shocked at the vitriol otherwise seemingly reserved and or calm people hold for her , in 3 decades living and working in various parts of the US she is the only person capable of dragging the 'c' word out of Americans

You really have to ask yourself, what's the source of that?

Of course Republicans hate the Clintons. They failed at impeachment, they've failed to pin anything on them for 25 years.

Republicans loathe the Clintons and there is a large block of voters who would never vote for her. Fair enough. I come across right wingers who hate her with a passion too.

We've just experienced eight years of an Obama presidency where republicans tried to block almost everything he did. Republican opposition isnt new, its politics. There are equally passionate Democrats who are pretty amazed by the rise of Donald Trump.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

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Really? You think the Mormon Church will endorse him? I suppose they might but it would certainly be fascinating to watch. The Mormons take their religion pretty seriously though.

InTheTrees

walshyn93 wrote: »

He's not known as a casino gambling mogul he's known as a property mogul. You're talking about things that haven't been issues in this campaign and are unlikely to stick. The idea that his casino history is going to hurt his campaign is fanciful wishful thinking.

Right now during the primary process each parties candidates battle it out among themselves.

Its after the candidates are picked that the campaigning between the parties begins. At that point Trump's record will come under far more scrutiny. The casinos and the Chapter 11 bankruptcies will be fair game. But there's no way the democrats will show their hand yet, all that waits until after the candidates have been decided.

Permabear

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