2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

MightyMandarin

Black Swan wrote: »

Republican South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley will rebut Obama's State of the Union Address on behalf of the GOP. This opportunity for Haley may be a test balloon to see how well she is received nationally, and if she does grand, may be a promising candidate to run as VP with the 2016 GOP presidential nominee? This strategy may draw some of the women's vote, given that there has never been a female US Vice President.

I'd be surprised if the eventual Republican nominee doesn't select a woman for VP. Considering Hillary will have the women's vote, and the Republican field is overly male-dominated, it would be wise for the nominee to select a woman to try and take some of that vote from Hillary, if she is nominated.

MightyMandarin

Permabear wrote: »

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Again, he still hasn't been convicted in a court of law, so until you can prove that he's guilty of any such offence, your point is meaningless.

And out of court settlements should never be used as evidence to prove someone's guilt. People settle all the time just to make a case go away, regardless of their guilt. It's not up to you or anyone to judge someone's guilt just because they settled.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

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Going after a candidates spouse in a political campaign can be counter productive. Allegations from years ago? I suppose they could try some kind of swift boating like they did to John Kerry but this is the candidates spouse and not the candidate and it may just make her more sympathetic.

Permabear

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my friend

This should be the most positive State of the Union for 7 years, The outlook is great, Obama is leaving.

MightyMandarin

my friend wrote: »

This should be the most positive State of the Union for 7 years, The outlook is great, Obama is leaving.

The outlook is great because the economy is better now than in '08, they've gotten out of Iraq and almost out of Afghanistan and millions of America's poorest now have access to healthcare.

While he's far from perfect, Obama's done a good job imo.

moneymad

MightyMandarin wrote: »

The outlook is great because the economy is better now than in '08, they've gotten out of Iraq and almost out of Afghanistan and millions of America's poorest now have access to healthcare.

While he's far from perfect, Obama's done a good job imo.

The us is heading into a massive recession bud.

my friend

MightyMandarin wrote: »

The outlook is great because the economy is better now than in '08, they've gotten out of Iraq and almost out of Afghanistan and millions of America's poorest now have access to healthcare.

While he's far from perfect, Obama's done a good job imo.

well, that's your opinion, I think if you look at the facts -the metrics - its clear that while Obama may have constructed the window dressing of healthcare he would have served the people better had he knuckled down term 1 and worked on the employment numbers.

History will not see Obama favorably - the least best of our time

KingBrian2

moneymad wrote: »

The us is heading into a massive recession bud.

Whoever becomes President will not have the same challenges Obama faced. There will of course be major difficult choices to make. The President was without Congressional support for much of his term usually they back the President of the day on all crucial matters. This has changed which is good as it encourages further debate on important news, business & legislation.

MightyMandarin

moneymad wrote: »

The us is heading into a massive recession bud.

Anything else in that crystal ball of yours?

Seriously, there's no point in making predictions if you're not going to provide trustworthy sources to support your claim.

The Randy Riverbeast

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Republicans aren't stupid and dangerous. They just say a lot of stupid things and some of their proposed policies and the thought of some of their candidates in power is quite dangerous.

It's a shame Cruz couldn't put some of that intelligence of his to better use than making up stories, facts and the rest of the nonsense he comes out with.

I would actually prefer Trump rather than Cruz. Trump does it for the attention, Cruz believes in what he says about discriminating against people.

MightyMandarin

my friend wrote: »

well, that's your opinion, I think if you look at the facts -the metrics - its clear that while Obama may have constructed the window dressing of healthcare he would have served the people better had he knuckled down term 1 and worked on the employment numbers.

History will not see Obama favorably - the least best of our time

You're right in that he should've got more done while he had a blue congress, but overall he's done alright imo.

Like Obama, Enda Kenny receives a lot of flak here for things out of his control, and while he's not perfect, I think history will judge him and Obama favourably as they've helped steer both of their economies out of the abyss.

It's also ironic that according to most Conservatives, Reagan was the 'best president ever' when actually his policies started the 2008 crash. History is unfortunately very rarely objective and tells the full story.

BoJack Horseman

Bad luck for Barry, on the eve of his last SOTU speech, a potential hostage issue developing in the Persian Gulf

feardeas

my friend wrote: »

well, that's your opinion, I think if you look at the facts -the metrics - its clear that while Obama may have constructed the window dressing of healthcare he would have served the people better had he knuckled down term 1 and worked on the employment numbers.

History will not see Obama favorably - the least best of our time

The least best of our time..... well only if you take from January 09 to now as 'our time'.

Have we all forgotten about good old W.

Permabear

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Hande hoche!

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Bad luck for Barry, on the eve of his last SOTU speech, a potential hostage issue developing in the Persian Gulf

Didn't something similar happen a few years ago with some British marines?

Manach

Leaving aside the wonderful impression Mr. Kenny does of a rabbit in headlights, from a historical perspective the economy was indeed in a bad state when Mr. Obama took office. However whether the steps he took to stabilise it have created knock on effects to the world's future economy will causes oceans of ink to be spilt among economists in their debates.

my friend

feardeas wrote: »

The least best of our time..... well only if you take from January 09 to now as 'our time'.

Have we all forgotten about good old W.

W rates better than Obama

Black Swan

Permabear wrote: »

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Yours is an anecdotal example, so my reply will be anecdotal too. I know a partner of a very well known legal firm with offices nationwide that I occasionally lunch with. She specialises in defending corporations and high public officials from employee lawsuits. She has told me that they do a cost-benefit analysis of each case, and all too often, even if their corporate or public client is innocent, they settle out of court. Settlements are sometimes reached by innocent corporate or public official defendants to avoid Pyrrhic victories that may inflict a devastating toll on the victor. So settlements tell outsiders nothing.

my friend

Black Swan wrote: »

Yours is an anecdotal example, so my reply will be anecdotal too. I know a partner of a very well known legal firm with offices nationwide that I occasionally lunch with. She specialises in defending corporations and high public officials from employee lawsuits. She has told me that they do a cost-benefit analysis of each case, and all too often, even if their corporate or public client is innocent, they settle out of court. Settlements are sometimes reached by innocent corporate or public official defendants to avoid Pyrrhic victories that may inflict a devastating toll on the victor. So settlements tell outsiders nothing.

Your anecdote describes what's done to keep stuff buried, Paula Jones case was in public, she wasn't blackmailing him, she was seeking justice, the $850k was paid without an apology , why pay when the spotlight has been placed ?

If innocent take the stand, but that would then result in someone perjuring themselves in a court of law...

InTheTrees

my friend wrote: »

If innocent take the stand,

Speak or you must be guilty? Medieval logic right there.

That's why the Bill of Rights contains a provision against being forced to testify against oneself.

MightyMandarin

my friend wrote: »

Your anecdote describes what's done to keep stuff buried, Paula Jones case was in public, she wasn't blackmailing him, she was seeking justice, the $850k was paid without an apology , why pay when the spotlight has been placed ?

If innocent take the stand, but that would then result in someone perjuring themselves in a court of law...

Evidently she wasn't because she wouldn't have taken the money otherwise.

Under your idea, you're violating their rights to not incriminate themselves so that arggument is irrelevant.

Like I said to Permabear before, settling out of court is not an indicator of guilt. Stop seeing it as such.

my friend

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Evidently she wasn't because she wouldn't have taken the money otherwise.

Under your idea, you're violating their rights to not incriminate themselves so that arggument is irrelevant.

Like I said to Permabear before, settling out of court is not an indicator of guilt. Stop seeing it as such.

You're presenting Hillary like defences, 'if I say it ain't so, it ain't so'

Well try dispatching these facts:

''More specifically, the Independent Counsel concluded that President Clinton testified falsely on three counts under oath in Clinton v. Jones. However, Ray chose to decline criminal prosecution in favor of what the Principles of Federal Prosecution call "alternative sanctions". This included being impeached:

"As a consequence of his conduct in the Jones v. Clinton civil suit and before the federal grand jury, President Clinton incurred significant administrative sanctions. The Independent Counsel considered seven non-criminal alternative sanctions that were imposed in making his decision to decline prosecution: (1) President Clinton’s admission of providing false testimony that was knowingly misleading, evasive, and prejudicial to the administration of justice before the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas; (2) his acknowledgement that his conduct violated the Rules of Professional Conduct of the Arkansas Supreme Court; (3) the five-year suspension of his license to practice law and $25,000 fine imposed on him by the Circuit Court of Pulaski County, Arkansas; (4) the civil contempt penalty of more than $900,000 imposed on President Clinton by the federal court for violating its orders; (5) the payment of more than $850,000 in settlement to Paula Jones; (6) the express finding by the federal court that President Clinton had engaged in contemptuous conduct; and (7) the substantial public condemnation of President Clinton arising from his impeachment."
These seven sanctions, Ray reasoned, were "sufficient", and therefore he did not pursue further sanctions in a criminal proceeding.''

Fines , sanctions, a massive financial settlement and career ending disbarment and you think pleading the fifth was to save dignity??

It was what the self admitted liar was willing to accept rather than face a criminal trial.

Permabear

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my friend

Permabear wrote: »

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Incredible stuff from an incredible person, you know she once traded $1000 into $100,000 in 10 months trading cattle futures

$100,000 in 1979? That's about $400,000 in today's money!

But that's another story

Permabear

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my friend

Permabear wrote: »

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Ah but she was a greenhorn, when later attempts were made to audit the trades Hillary pretty much claimed she didn't know what she was at or could she identify the trades, her margin defaults were not called as they should have been and while her husband was Governor of Alabama she walked away with a cool $400,000 in today's money after 10 months of not knowing what she was doing....

incredible stuff

It ranks with Bertie's 'won it on the horses'

Permabear

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Permabear

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20Cent

Bill Clinton allegations, the email "scandal", Benghazi. Hillary's detractors really scraping the barrel. Might be a bad road to go down if Trumps past gets looked into more closely.