2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Permabear

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Fr Tod Umptious

First Up wrote: »

If you took the trouble to study her career you might want to modify the claim that she "never really stood for anything". She has a formidable record of standing for - and against - things since she was a teenager. And it wasn't confined to just talking about them.

That may be true, but the accusations of "carpetbagging" from the 2000 NY senate campaign are not that far off the mark.

Permabear

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my friend

Thargor wrote: »

You're clutching at straws Permabear, you'd think a professional trader like yourself would admire her for that return, you're talking like she made it by jacking up the price of a HIV drug or selling dodgy baby formula. Boosting your families financial future for the sake of risking a few grand like that is admirable.

Conveniently Hillary did it trading cattle futures while her husband was governor of Arkansas and the largest employer in Arkansas was Tyson foods...

She turned $1000 into $400,000 (today's money) in 10 months

Her losing trades on margin were conveniently never called by the company handling her trades

Like I said before, akin to Bertie's 'I won it on the horses'

Black Swan

Permabear wrote: »

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I'm in my 20's now, only a bit older than that 22-year-age Monica back then, and get hit upon by older men all the time. Some are in positions of trust, power, and are married. It doesn't mean that I will agree with their advances, or sacrifice my integrity and self-worth because of someone's title or power or money, be they the US president or not. And correct me if I am wrong, but a 22-year-old US citizen has reached majority, is allowed to vote, hold many public elected offices, sign contracts and be legally obligated, drink alcohol, be convicted as an adult if guilty, and volunteer for the US military? So a 22 year-old Monica can decide to die for her country (as early as age 18), but not be allowed a consensual relationship with an older man, be they in a position of power or not? I value my personal freedoms, and do not want someone imposing such social norms, ethics, or regulations on whom I can date as an adult, and would resist such regulations, especially if they were imposed on me by a state or federal government.

MightyMandarin

Permabear wrote: »

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But Trump is a serial cheater, so the chances are he'll cheat again, as he's never issued an apology for it afaik (at least he doesn't seem the type to apologise for any of his behaviour).

Because of this, I'd be weary about Trump if I were you (and shared your opinions on Presidents cheating on their spouses while in office), because out of the entire field, Trump is the most likely to engage in infidelities, given his past conduct.

If Hillary can be deemed guilty-by-association because of Bill's actions, then why can't we point the finger at Trump's past infidelities and claim that there is a substantial risk of him abusing his power in this way because of his history?

Permabear

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Permabear

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InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

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How strange...its almost as though you didn't know about the impeachment hearings.

They failed to impeach bill Clinton. We sat through all this contrived shock and horrror while we listened to ken Starr and the congressional investigation attempt to.impeach the sitting president and they failed miserably.

K-9

Hard to argue with the logic tbh, people can say it was 20 years ago but that doesn't really wash for Hillary. Bill is history like JFK was to a new generation of people.

I do think the trading thing can be easily dismissed, many the Wall Street trader had road to Damascus moments later on in life. Believable maybe not, but explainable.

As for age differences, well the problem there isn't in the present, it's 20 or 30 years down the line with health consequences,and but we're going way off topic with that and middle ages men hitting on young women!

Permabear

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Black Swan

Permabear wrote: »

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So you are advocating laws and regulations governing the relationships between younger women and men in positions of power? No thanks, that's too big a sacrifice of my personal freedoms. There are too many laws and regulations governing our personal behaviour. I don't want more government imposed regulations, I want less.

Besides, I did not know that Bill Clinton was running for 2016 president. I thought he was limited to 2 terms.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

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You still equate an out of court settlement with hush money. It isnt.

It certainly will be interesting. If she wins the nomination it will be a sustained RNC attack for the entirety of the campaign. Swift boating will be mild compared to what is expected to come.

Whether the endless rehash of allegations against her husband works to sway voters will remain to be seen. Will harping on the transgressions of her husband turn voters against her?

Usually this inter party wrangling waits until after the primaries but with the castrated state of the republican party right now they need to divert attention early but I wouldnt expect a lot of response yet.

InTheTrees

Black Swan wrote: »

Besides, I did not know that Bill Clinton was running for 2016 president. I thought he was limited to 2 terms.

It will be fun to see their campaign ads. The republican party. The party of privileged white men, is going to go after a female candidate's wayward spouse to try and discredit her.

They can probably wave goodbye to the few remaining votes they may have got from women.

MightyMandarin

Ted Cruz Didn’t Disclose Loan From Goldman Sachs for His First Senate Campaign

A review of personal financial disclosures that Mr. Cruz filed later with the Senate does not find a liquidation of assets that would have accounted for all the money he spent on his campaign. What it does show, however, is that in the first half of 2012, Ted and Heidi Cruz obtained the low-interest loan from Goldman Sachs, as well as another one from Citibank. The loans totaled as much as $750,000 and eventually increased to a maximum of $1 million before being paid down later that year. There is no explanation of their purpose.

This is interesting, particularly because

As Ted Cruz tells it, the story of how he financed his upstart campaign for the United States Senate four years ago is an endearing example of loyalty and shared sacrifice between a married couple.

“Sweetheart, I’d like us to liquidate our entire net worth, liquid net worth, and put it into the campaign,” he says he told his wife, Heidi, who readily agreed.

So he's not the only one caught lying during this campaign then.

InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

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Bill Clinton is one of the most popular ex-presidents.

He left office with a 65% approval rating. If there wasnt term limits he would most likely have won the 2000 election.

Black Swan

InTheTrees wrote: »

It will be fun to see their campaign ads. The republican party. The party of privileged white men, is going to go after a female candidate's wayward spouse to try and discredit her.

They can probably wave goodbye to the few remaining votes they may have got from women.

The GOP 2016 presidential nominee better be careful of how he attacks Hillary Clinton through the infidelity of her husband. Hillary was not guilty of infidelity, and women who have suffered such in their marital relationships (or friends of women that did) may sympathize with Hillary, not condemn her. Such attacks have a potential to backfire.

On another issue, I watched the State of the Union Address by Obama, and was greatly disappointed in his delivery and content. Like one of my friends said at the javahouse today: "Boring!" I watched the rebuttals, and Haley was just OK, nothing spectacular, and really missed an opportunity to blow our socks off, and perhaps become a VP running mate competing for the women's vote. Not sure why they included Cruz on the telly afterwards, as all he did was a rehash of his campaign speeches from Iowa.

Now Bernie Sanders got my attention with his after address comments. Oh, he was not charismatic, and did not knock me over, but I listened to what he said and did not flip the telly channel before he was finished. He is an independent running for the Democrat nomination, and a bit left of centre, so he probably will not win the Dem nomination for president, and if by some stroke of fate he did, I do not remember ever reading about a politically left candidate winning the presidency since its founding (but I could be in error).

InTheTrees

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Ted Cruz Didn’t Disclose Loan From Goldman Sachs for His First Senate Campaign

This is interesting, particularly because

So he's not the only one caught lying during this campaign then.

Wow. The trump campaign have been digging.

Pretty damming. Not disclosing the loan is one thing but lying to ones constituents that you were making a major personal sacrifice is far more sleazy. Also his wife worked for Goldman Sachs.

I wonder how he'll answer this in tomorrows debate?

Rjd2

I know its unlikely, but is their is any legal way for me to watch the republican debate tomorrow morning?:o

First Up

Rjd2 wrote: »

I know its unlikely, but is their is any legal way for me to watch the republican debate tomorrow morning?:o

I would expect CNN to show it.

Permabear

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Rjd2

thanks.:)

Permabear

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Thargor

my friend wrote: »

She turned $1000 into $400,000 (today's money) in 10 months
'

Haha you convert the profits into todays money but leave the initial investment in 1979 dollars? Dont be so blatant.

According to wiki her trades were guided by a friend and fellow lawyer who was also a succesful futures trader who was in turn guided by his friend who just happened to be a massively successful gambler aswell? Isnt it just possible these guys knew how to make money in cattle futures?

she was guided by James Blair, a friend, lawyer, outside counsel to Tyson Foods, Arkansas' largest employer, and, since 1977,[5] a futures trader who was doing so well he encouraged friends and family to enter the commodity markets as well.[3][4] Blair in turn traded through, and relied upon cattle markets expertise from, broker Robert L. "Red" Bone of Refco, a former Tyson executive and professional poker player who was a World Series of Poker semifinalist.

Clutching at straws as I said.

Permabear

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First Up

Permabear wrote:

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That will be worth a fair few votes.

Thargor

Permabear wrote: »

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No because "tackling dangerous risks in the financial system"refers to massive institutions that have the resources to fix the whole market and endanger the economy, as Ive said multiple times, individuals are perfectly free to spend all their money on Powerball tickets or cattle futures if they so wish. I haven't seen a single Democrat calling for individual peoples investment rights to be curtailed, have you?

I have seen plenty calling for the actual dangerous practices such as predatory lending, subprime loans and insane loan-to-book ratios of major financial institutions to be regulated though, these are the dangerous casino capitalism practices Clinton and other politicians from both parties refer to, not individual peoples investment accounts, but I think you know that.

Permabear

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my friend

Permabear wrote: »

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Hillary has form with respect to hypocrisy- voted FOR the invasion of Iraq, then complained about the invasion of Iraq.

Thargor

Energy speculators? Are they burning cattle for fuel in Arkansas or something? You've cherry picked a single line from an interview she did during high gas prices and are twisting it to imply she wants to go after individual small time traders, I think you know what you're doing and Ive wasted enough time correcting you:

Q: You’ve said you want to get tough with OPEC. But what does it mean when you have members of OPEC like Ahmadinejad of Iran or Hugo Chavez of Venezuela? How do you plan on getting tough with them?

A: Well, I actually have a four-part program that I would put into effect were I president today to deal with these rising gas prices. I would go after the energy traders and speculators. I would close the “Enron loophole.” I voted to quit filling up the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. I have advocated a gas tax holiday that is paid for, out of the record profits of the oil companies. And it’s an enormous burden on people who drive any considerable distance.

Do you have a single piece of evidence that says its her policy to go after individuals and stop them from trading in commodity futures that would make her a hypocrite as you have repeatedly claimed?