2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Permabear

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Manach

International news rarely seems to make an impact in US. However given what on balance the seemly good recent deal between Iran and America and hopefully the lessening tension between them would this be a boost, given her tenure in the State Department, for Clinton?

MightyMandarin

Manach wrote: »

International news rarely seems to make an impact in US. However given what on balance the seemly good recent deal between Iran and America and hopefully the lessening tension between them would this be a boost, given her tenure in the State Department, for Clinton?

She didn't really have a lot to do with the deal though, did she? I think Kerry deserves most of the credit or criticism depending on who you listen to.

Overall it seems like a good deal as America seem to finally learning that Iran certainly won't like you the more sanctions you impose on them. The same could be said for North Korea except Kim Jong Un seems a lot more unpredictable than the Iranians.

Permabear

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Black Swan

Is Bernie Sanders closing the gap with Hillary Clinton beginning 2016?

3 most recent CBS/NY Times polls:

Taken | Clinton | Sanders
6-10 Nov | 52 | 33
4-8 Dec | 52 | 32
7-10 Jan | 48 | 41

The 4th Democrat debate scheduled for Sunday 17 January 2016 is expected to be a bit more confrontational than past debates. Perhaps this poll given above, as well as others may be reason?

Manach

Well my reckoning is that she was known as an internationalist (ie willing to work within the norms of diplomacy) then she would have laid the groundwork for the deal to come to fruition with the Iranians.

Black Swan

Permabear wrote: »

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Agree with you that support of points makes for a more substantial argument, and I too will cite sources and polls accordingly. And polls generally should be observed with caution given that they are descriptive and not inferential, but once again what RCP does by averaging completely different polls is greatly suspect.

Permabear

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InTheTrees

Permabear wrote: »

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If thats true then its disgusting.

:eek:

Permabear

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Black Swan

Permabear wrote: »

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Although I'm independent methinks that the Democrat and Republican 2016 presidential candidates should be asked their positions on a Steve Forbes flat tax, that includes eliminating the vast number of write-offs that currently make a joke of the existing tax system.

Permabear

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Fr Tod Umptious

Black Swan wrote: »

Is Bernie Sanders closing the gap with Hillary Clinton beginning 2016?

3 most recent CBS/NY Times polls:

Taken | Clinton | Sanders
6-10 Nov | 52 | 33
4-8 Dec | 52 | 32
7-10 Jan | 48 | 41

The 4th Democrat debate scheduled for Sunday 17 January 2016 is expected to be a bit more confrontational than past debates. Perhaps this poll given above, as well as others may be reason?

Why are the Dems scheduling debates at such weird times.
9pm on a bank holiday Sunday night.
During a heavy weekend of NFL playoff action.

There was one also on a Saturday night before Christmas.

Are they trying to protect someone ?

Permabear

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Fr Tod Umptious

Permabear wrote: »

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All of this shows that Hillary is just not popular with the general public.
If she was then there would be no need to hide her debates away at such obscure TV times.

Permabear

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my friend

Bernie is closing in on Clinton and he's not even trying...

Interesting article from Vanity Fair

'On Sunday, we’ll get the best indication yet of whether Bernie Sanders really intends to go all the way. He has never gotten rough, sticking to a mode of “implied contrast” on issues. Yet even his mildest jabs have wounded the frontrunner—or erstwhile frontrunner—as if a tug on her sleeve would be enough to rip off her entire arm.'

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/01/bernie-sanders-is-closing-in-on-clinton-and-hes-not-even-trying

Go Bernie!

ancapailldorcha

I've only been reading this thread but some of the stuff about Hilary here is damning, or shocking at the very least.

Manach

Actually on Clinton, Permabear's post actually makes me ever more incline to her.

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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Attack her daughter and husband Classy.

Have the libertarians selected a candidate yet?

Hope they pick McAfee.

Lockstep

20Cent wrote: »

Attack her daughter and husband Classy.

Have the libertarians selected a candidate yet?

Hope they pick McAfee.

You've been around long enough. This standard is utterly unacceptable. Another post like this and you're taking a break from the forum.

Lockstep

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool pinko lefty scumbag and I've no time for Clinton. Her track record on social issues is extremely weak (switching to more libertarian positions when it became politically expedient to do so and with a worrying closeness to Wall Street.

Her foreign policy is also dodgy for me. She's as much a chickenhawk as any of the Republican candidates.

MightyMandarin

Lockstep wrote: »

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool pinko lefty scumbag and I've no time for Clinton. Her track record on social issues is extremely weak (switching to more libertarian positions when it became politically expedient to do so and with a worrying closeness to Wall Street.

It's not even just social issues. She's hopped on the anti-Wall St. bandwagon in the past few months, but it's clear as day that she'll change absolutely nothing in terms of regulation and taking on hedge funds and investment banks and their dirty schemes.

I also cannot stand her political games. The negative ads, dragging Chelsea out to bad-mouth Bernie, effectively rigging the DNC with that horrible Wassermann Schultz who's blatantly on her side. 3 debates scheduled at awful times so that Bernie wouldn't get exposure and Hillary wouldn't get found out. It's also not just Bernie supporters who despise this carry on; O'Malley and Jim Webb complained a lot about in the past few months.

But above all, I just cannot stand Hillary's attitude. She's as arrogant and cocky as they come, and her attempts to come across as 'young and trendy' are cringeworthy to say the least. Taking selfies with the Kardashians and all this nonsense is why I don't think she's presidential-like. She doesn't command an audience like Obama does, she doesn't fight for real change, even when it's unpopular to do so, like Bernie does and her ties with Wall St. just make her look so shady and looking like she's only saying nice things and acting happy so she can get something from you.

I wouldn't trust her as a person, let alone as a presidential candidate.

fr336

Clinton looks as slippery as they come. I would not trust her as president, even by the normal standards. Even Trump is an idiot but you know what you're getting. Do not trust Clinton one bit. I'm almost feeling Bush will be president at the end of all this.

MightyMandarin

fr336 wrote: »

Clinton looks as slippery as they come. I would not trust her as president, even by the normal standards. Even Trump is an idiot but you know what you're getting. Do not trust Clinton one bit. I'm almost feeling Bush will be president at the end of all this.

He's not an idiot, he's smart, which is worrying.

Seriously, watch one of his rallies like this one (they're hilarious to watch imo) and see how he has this incredible self awareness; anytime the audience goes quiet he blurts out another thing like 'Obama's an idiot' or 'we're gonna build a wall!' to get the audience riled up again. His style is incredible too; he almost has a chat with the audience.

Trump's only good for entertainment value, which is why I consider him as a clown, but he's smart and has this attitude that's cocky, self-absorbed and arrogant, but is just incredible. He's wiped the floor with anyone trying to usurp his lead.

His ideas are awful and arguments flawed, but he's a master manipulator. Watch him secure the nomination.

fr336

MightyMandarin wrote: »

He's not an idiot, he's smart, which is worrying.

Seriously, watch one of his rallies like this one (they're hilarious to watch imo) and see how he has this incredible self awareness; anytime the audience goes quiet he blurts out another thing like 'Obama's an idiot' or 'we're gonna build a wall!' to get the audience riled up again. His style is incredible too; he almost has a chat with the audience.

Trump's only good for entertainment value, which is why I consider him as a clown, but he's smart and has this attitude that's cocky, self-absorbed and arrogant, but is just incredible. He's wiped the floor with anyone trying to usurp his lead.

His ideas are awful and arguments flawed, but he's a master manipulator. Watch him secure the nomination.

Well if there's any justice Sanders should get the Dem nomination. Clinton is like the kid at school trying to fit in changing her policy all the time - she seemingly has no principles other than seeking power for herself. Can't stand her and to me she'd be the worst of Bush and Obama, if you can imagine that hybrid.

KingBrian2

MightyMandarin wrote: »

He's not an idiot, he's smart, which is worrying.

Seriously, watch one of his rallies like this one (they're hilarious to watch imo) and see how he has this incredible self awareness; anytime the audience goes quiet he blurts out another thing like 'Obama's an idiot' or 'we're gonna build a wall!' to get the audience riled up again. His style is incredible too; he almost has a chat with the audience.

Trump's only good for entertainment value, which is why I consider him as a clown, but he's smart and has this attitude that's cocky, self-absorbed and arrogant, but is just incredible. He's wiped the floor with anyone trying to usurp his lead.

His ideas are awful and arguments flawed, but he's a master manipulator. Watch him secure the nomination.

Yes but past elections have seen Reagan, Bush and Nixon all get elected. Trump is definitely a strong contender. With Clinton America will get a great centre right politician. Is this good enough for a Nation that wants to push away the era of bad governance? Bernie Sanders like him or loathe him is Presidential and does not appeal to the lowest common denominator. Should he get nominated he will have to face the hardline Republicans. He is unlikely to win as America is too polarised. A new front line Democrat is needed to open us this election.

KingBrian2

fr336 wrote: »

Well if there's any justice Sanders should get the Dem nomination. Clinton is like the kid at school trying to fit in changing her policy all the time - she seemingly has no principles other than seeking power for herself. Can't stand her and to me she'd be the worst of Bush and Obama, if you can imagine that hybrid.

Maybe Obama can be asked to rerun for President. Is there any rule against that? He clearly is the best choice so far and he probable would secure a third term if he did considering the choices.:pac:

Overheal

I think he actually has good odds, he has pretty typical swing polling among republican voters. And he's not nearly as divisive as Clinton would be. I've ridden the sandworm explored the social media comments sections and found there's really not much people get violently against sanders about except that he's a communist (totally false), something about financing ethics with his wife some years ago which by todays standards are a cough without covering your mouth, and some decades old essay where he questioned sexual fantasy displayed in pornography which his detractors have to frame incorrectly ("Bernie wants to rape women") in order to try and get anything to stick to him.

Were he elected I'm not sure you'd see the same obstructionism that was had under Obama but I could be wrong. No doubt, if the GOP loses again it will be another 4 years of working tirelessly to blame the opposition for all of our woes, even though they have a house and senate majority and appointed 5 of 9 of the Justices..

Manach

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Maybe Obama can be asked to rerun for President. Is there any rule against that? He clearly is the best choice so far and he probable would secure a third term if he did considering the choices.:pac:

Offhand from my reading of "Short intro to US Politics" in the wake of FDR's four terms, an ammendment was passed to limit the terms to two for any US President.