Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP
Comments
-
If you don't want to have the argument then don't. Perma presented evidence to make a point I presented counter evidence. Don't be one of those people who tries to interject their disinterest into someone else's conversation. It's rude.
I find the liberal attempt to make Megyn Kelly the victim after all these years of abusing her equally pathetic. Of all the debates that have been had about women being harassed by the social media until now Kelly has never been mentioned as a victim even though given her level of prominence, her appearance and her politics she's probably the primary recipient of misogynist online abuse in the world. It's very selective outrage is what I'm saying. Very selective and convenient.
As for what Perma said about women taking notice. Don't think conservative women haven't noticed the abuse Megyn Kelly has got from the left all these years. They're not going to suddenly start seeing the left as the saviour of women when their primary target along with Palin is now their favourite victim.
If you want to go ahead and again accuse me of whataboutery I'll rightly accuse you of using buzzwords in lieu of an argument.
What you've done is just turned yet another argument into conservatives vs liberals, again. I mightn't have valued Permabear's source with much value, but that doesn't mean he/she didn't have a point; Trump's antics have been horrible and his remarks about Kelly and other women have been disgusting.
There are trolls on both sides who make rotten comments about candidates on both sides. This can't be disputed. You seem to portray that Kelly and Palin are victims of abuse from liberals; what about Hillary's abuse? Or is she just a fair target?0 -
This post had been deleted.
I'd say enda gets called worse, by more people, on an average night when he's not on the news.
Have to admire the balls on Fox News with their "won't someone think of the children" play - would love to see a graphic of insults aimed by them towards liberals, men and women alike.
Edit: not hard to find... http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/08/18/70-awful-displays-of-sexism-on-fox-news/2049940 -
Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,267 CMod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 36407
This is not a control sample, or a control of any sort methodologically. It is a nonrandom convenience sample purposefully selected that's anecdotal at best, with serious concerns as to what it represents. Rather, you are just simply comparing one set of comments with another.Rather than whataboutery I've presented is a control sample from before this spat between the two involving people who are almost certainly (given the content of the video was about Democrats intimidating voters) not Trump supporters.0 -
I don't know guys slamming Trump when his persona is doing wonders for his Muslim supporters and don't say he does not have any. He clearly is against the Wahhabi,Jihadi ISIS crowd and nobody in the Muslim community in America supports them.0
-
MightyMandarin wrote: »What you've done is just turned yet another argument into conservatives vs liberals, again. I mightn't have valued Permabear's source with much value, but that doesn't mean he/she didn't have a point; Trump's antics have been horrible and his remarks about Kelly and other women have been disgusting.
There are trolls on both sides who make rotten comments about candidates on both sides. This can't be disputed. You seem to portray that Kelly and Palin are victims of abuse from liberals; what about Hillary's abuse? Or is she just a fair target?
They're all fair targets for criticism because they're all public figures. Of course we all want the criticism to be at a high level and be above the type of vile abuse that's levelled at some. But to imply that abuse is the fault of anyone but the abuser is pathetic. I don't blame Hillary for the fact that Donald Trump is the most consistently lied about candidate, I blame the people who lie and distort what he says.
If Megyn Kelly is abused it's not because Donald Trump has picked a fight with her, it's because people don't like her, and I would bet good money that more Trump supporters than Hillary supporters like Megyn Kelly.
Furthermore, if Trump was a fringe candidate it might make some sense to go and investigate the type of people who support him and if you were to seize upon a few of them and identify them as having some strange tendencies that might have a shred of legitimacy. But the Republican party has 30 million members and over 40% of them support Donald Trump. To say that this type of vile misogyny is something that characterises the typical Trump supporter, and not the typical twitter user is a gross mischaracterisation.
There is an element of Trump's support base that tends towards this type of stuff, but there is equally an element of Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton's support base that tends towards much of the same as I've already demonstrated. Rather than using this to excuse the Trump supporters I would say that this says nothing at all about either candidate and more about people in general. To pass this off as a Trump phenomenon is disingenuous.0 -
Advertisement
-
Black Swan wrote: »This is not a control sample, or a control of any sort methodologically. It is a nonrandom convenience sample purposefully selected that's anecdotal at best, with serious concerns as to what it represents. Rather, you are just simply comparing one set of comments with another.
Perma's evidence wasn't exactly scientific so I won't hold myself to a higher standard than him.0 -
There is an element of Trump's support base that tends towards this type of stuff, but there is equally an element of Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton's support base that tends towards much of the same as I've already demonstrated. Rather than using this to excuse the Trump supporters I would say that this says nothing at all about either candidate and more about people in general. To pass this off as a Trump phenomenon is disingenuous.
Speaking of the ugly contingent of Bernie Sanders' supporters (sometimes referred to as "Berniebros"), the BBC published an article on them yesterday.0 -
Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,267 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 36407
It would appear that the latest Iowa polls place Clinton and Sanders in a close race, many of the differences between the two presidential candidates falling within the margins of error. Of course these polls are descriptive percentages, and caution should be used when interpreting results. If Sanders wins in the first two primaries, Iowa (1 Feb) and New Hampshire (9 Feb), how may this affect the race for the Democrat nomination?
Sources:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/ia/iowa_democratic_presidential_caucus-3195.html
http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2016-presidential-primary-schedule-calendar/0 -
Latest on the Clinton email issue, several have been declared Top Secret:
http://www.everyjoe.com/2016/01/21/news/portland-community-college-announces-whiteness-history-month/#1
One wonders if this is a really deep play by Obama to have another candidate, any other beside Mr. Sanders, to replace her.
And, sorry if OT, the surrealism of having on the BBC the Celebrity Apprentice USA on later tonight where the presenter looks like the potentially next US president is odd to say the least.0 -
Black Swan wrote: »It would appear that the latest Iowa polls place Clinton and Sanders in a close race, many of the differences between the two presidential candidates falling within the margins of error. Of course these polls are descriptive percentages, and caution should be used when interpreting results. If Sanders wins in the first two primaries, Iowa (1 Feb) and New Hampshire (9 Feb), how may this affect the race for the Democrat nomination?
Sources:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/ia/iowa_democratic_presidential_caucus-3195.html
http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2016-presidential-primary-schedule-calendar/
If the Democrats were to throw Joe Biden into the race it would just be throwing more meat into the lion's den. Trump would eviscerate him. Biden isn't nearly as smart as Trump. People are talking about Elizabeth Warren but she's far too much of a progressive. 2016 is the year of the populist. The Dems need to find a Donald Trump to beat a Donald Trump.0 -
Advertisement
-
PopePalpatine wrote: »Speaking of the ugly contingent of Bernie Sanders' supporters (sometimes referred to as "Berniebros"), the BBC published an article on them yesterday.
Yeah, the Bernie people hate Hillary and they tend to see anyone associated with her as condoning the many many many crimes she has committed. It's similar to how anyone who says they support Trump is accused of being a racist. Anyone who says they support Hillary is accused of being a dishonest self-server.
What I find hilarious is that people are actually attacking Sanders on race for being against reparations for slavery. I can't think of a single politician who supports reparations, especially not Hillary yet this supposed scandal has got a lot of traction on social media. I can't help but think there's some credence to the suspicion about Hillary shills.
Besides that, the only candidate that actually has a track record of harming women is Hillary Clinton.0 -
This post has been deleted.0
-
-
What I find hilarious is that people are actually attacking Sanders on race for being against reparations for slavery. I can't think of a single politician who supports reparations, especially not Hillary yet this supposed scandal has got a lot of traction on social media. I can't help but think there's some credence to the suspicion about Hillary shills.
Yeah, I think the article misfired by focusing on that rather than the typical Berniebro's antipathy (judging by circlejerks on Reddit, their natural habitat) towards the Black Lives Matter campaigners.0 -
They're all fair targets for criticism because they're all public figures. Of course we all want the criticism to be at a high level and be above the type of vile abuse that's levelled at some. But to imply that abuse is the fault of anyone but the abuser is pathetic. I don't blame Hillary for the fact that Donald Trump is the most consistently lied about candidate, I blame the people who lie and distort what he says.
What sort of notion is that? Hillary isn't responsible for the crap she gets thrown at her, the same way Kelly deserved none of the abuse Trump has hurled at her. The only ones responsible here are the Republicans who've anointed Hillary as some sort of anti-christ and Trump who didn't like the fact that a woman had the guts to challenge his bully-boy tactics.
Also, your 'Trump is the most consistently lied about candidate' is laughable. Trump never stops lying during his rallies and interviews, and even his ads have shown to use clips which had nothing to do with his 'enemy' aka Mexican Immigrants.If Megyn Kelly is abused it's not because Donald Trump has picked a fight with her, it's because people don't like her, and I would bet good money that more Trump supporters than Hillary supporters like Megyn Kelly.
It is exactly because Trump picked a fight with her. Kelly challenged him because of some of his horrible comments about women he didn't like. Trump supporters don't like Kelly because Trump doesn't like Kelly. That's the mentality of his followers, they follow the shepherd.Furthermore, if Trump was a fringe candidate it might make some sense to go and investigate the type of people who support him and if you were to seize upon a few of them and identify them as having some strange tendencies that might have a shred of legitimacy. But the Republican party has 30 million members and over 40% of them support Donald Trump. To say that this type of vile misogyny is something that characterises the typical Trump supporter, and not the typical twitter user is a gross mischaracterisation.
I've a very low opinion of Trump supporters and the Republican party anyway. The GOP has lost much of it's credibility in the past few years since big money really took over and any of the Republicans I had some respect for have been shut out or restricted to a place on the fringes. I respect guys like Rand Paul because he doesn't seem to toe the party or corporate line, while being somewhat respectful to others. Trump's just an- albeit entertaining- asshole with a lot of money.
The thing is, Bernie nor Hillary haven't said one thing as insulting as Trump has. If you disagree please show me some evidence.There is an element of Trump's support base that tends towards this type of stuff, but there is equally an element of Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton's support base that tends towards much of the same as I've already demonstrated. Rather than using this to excuse the Trump supporters I would say that this says nothing at all about either candidate and more about people in general. To pass this off as a Trump phenomenon is disingenuous.
Neither have branded Mexicans as 'rapists', insulted a war-vet in McCain because Trump (who certainly showed himself to be a real Rambo himself by avoiding the draft) 'doesn't like people who were captured'. The list of insulting things Donald has said could go on and on.0 -
PopePalpatine wrote: »Yeah, I think the article misfired by focusing on that rather than the typical Berniebro's antipathy (judging by circlejerks on Reddit, their natural habitat) towards the Black Lives Matter campaigners.
To be fair, a lot of that was due to this incident when a few BLM protesters interrupted him rudely, even though Bernie's been fighting for Civil Rights for years.0 -
MightyMandarin wrote: »What sort of notion is that? Hillary isn't responsible for the crap she gets thrown at her, the same way Kelly deserved none of the abuse Trump has hurled at her. The only ones responsible here are the Republicans who've anointed Hillary as some sort of anti-christ and Trump who didn't like the fact that a woman had the guts to challenge his bully-boy tactics.
Also, your 'Trump is the most consistently lied about candidate' is laughable. Trump never stops lying during his rallies and interviews, and even his ads have shown to use clips which had nothing to do with his 'enemy' aka Mexican Immigrants.
It is exactly because Trump picked a fight with her. Kelly challenged him because of some of his horrible comments about women he didn't like. Trump supporters don't like Kelly because Trump doesn't like Kelly. That's the mentality of his followers, they follow the shepherd.
I've a very low opinion of Trump supporters and the Republican party anyway. The GOP has lost much of it's credibility in the past few years since big money really took over and any of the Republicans I had some respect for have been shut out or restricted to a place on the fringes. I respect guys like Rand Paul because he doesn't seem to toe the party or corporate line, while being somewhat respectful to others. Trump's just an- albeit entertaining- asshole with a lot of money.
The thing is, Bernie nor Hillary haven't said one thing as insulting as Trump has. If you disagree please show me some evidence.
Neither have branded Mexicans as 'rapists', insulted a war-vet in McCain because Trump (who certainly showed himself to be a real Rambo himself by avoiding the draft) 'doesn't like people who were captured'. The list of insulting things Donald has said could go on and on.
You say the notion that Trump is the most consistently lied about candidate is laughable then you go and say that he branded Mexicans as rapists. Lie. Watch the actual video he's talking about a specific subset of immigrants and referencing an earlier stat he cited that said that 80% of women and girls crossing the border illegally are raped. He later said on Don Lemon's show, "someone's doing the raping".
You accuse him of "avoiding the draft". He was given a draft number of over 300 meaning he was highly unlikely to ever be called. The insinuation that he actively avoided it is a total lie.
Hillary anointed herself as the anti-christ when she spearheaded a smear campaign against the victims of her husband. Look up the story of Kathleen Willey and the lengths Hillary went to to intimidate her into silence.
As for the big money in the Republican party, that's absolutely laughable. Big money influencing politics is a bipartisan issue and anyone who pretends that one or the other is in the pockets of big business is deluding themselves.
As for Trump insulting people, there's one thing you can say with some accuracy about all Trump supporters. They don't care about hurt feelings. Explain to me why they should.
As for Megyn Kelly being "brave" to pull him up on his insults against women, who really cares. He called Rosie O'Donnell a fat pig and as yet no one has come out to refute that. There's a difference though. Trump says mean things about people in the public eye, Hillary bullies women weaker than her who have been the victims of terrible crimes into silence. If you think Trump has been worse to women you need some perspective.0 -
Add your reply here.Black Swan wrote: »It would appear that the latest Iowa polls place Clinton and Sanders in a close race, many of the differences between the two presidential candidates falling within the margins of error. Of course these polls are descriptive percentages, and caution should be used when interpreting results. If Sanders wins in the first two primaries, Iowa (1 Feb) and New Hampshire (9 Feb), how may this affect the race for the Democrat nomination?
Sources:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/ia/iowa_democratic_presidential_caucus-3195.html
http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2016-presidential-primary-schedule-calendar/
If the Democrats were to throw Joe Biden into the race it would just be throwing more meat into the lion's den. Trump would eviscerate him. Biden isn't nearly as smart as Trump. People are talking about Elizabeth Warren but she's far too much of a progressive. 2016 is the year of the populist. The Dems need to find a Donald Trump to beat a Donald Trump.
1. Diamond Joe has categorically said he won't run.
2. Biden would absolutely destroy Trump in any debate. He's actually a serious politician.they/them/theirs
And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek
0 -
Add your reply here.
1. Diamond Joe has categorically said he won't run.
2. Biden would absolutely destroy Trump in any debate. He's actually a serious politician.
That's a grand claim.
Biden beat Paul Ryan because 2012 was before things had visibly started to go wrong. Ryan was accused of being negative and a doomsayer while Biden arrogantly laughed his way through Ryan's assertions that Obama's foreign policy had begun to unravel. ISIS started taking over the very next year. That's a major gaffe in hindsight and Biden would get annihilated for that among other things.
Biden is a fool. He laughed and joked his way through criticism of a foreign policy that's almost universally accepted to be a cataclysmic failure.
Not to mention that the ridiculously Democratic partisan media was at its zenith in 2012.0 -
You say the notion that Trump is the most consistently lied about candidate is laughable then you go and say that he branded Mexicans as rapists. Lie. Watch the actual video he's talking about a specific subset of immigrants and referencing an earlier stat he cited that said that 80% of women and girls crossing the border illegally are raped. He later said on Don Lemon's show, "someone's doing the raping".
No, it's not a lie. Here's the transcript:“When Mexico (meaning the Mexican Government) sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you (pointing to the audience). They’re not sending you (pointing again). They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing drugs.They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people!
He is not referring to a 'subset' of Mexicans, indeed the only 'subset' he refers to are the one's who aren't in fact criminals, drug traffickers or rapists, implying that the majority are.
He got out of it because he got a doctor's note over some injury to his heel, otherwise he would've been drafted after he graduated. That's beside the point anyway because Donald is a coward who loves to slander McCain with insults over his capture while Donald was so brave he didn't bother volunteering and serving his country, yet has no problem insulting someone who has.You accuse him of "avoiding the draft". He was given a draft number of over 300 meaning he was highly unlikely to ever be called. The insinuation that he actively avoided it is a total lie.Hillary anointed herself as the anti-christ when she spearheaded a smear campaign against the victims of her husband. Look up the story of Kathleen Willey and the lengths Hillary went to to intimidate her into silence.
I'm no Hillary fan, but nobody deserves the treatment she receives. For someone who's never been convicted in a court of law, she's been treated like a mass murderer, although some conservatives will probably portray her as exactly that over 'Benghazi'.
As for the big money in the Republican party, that's absolutely laughable. Big money influencing politics is a bipartisan issue and anyone who pretends that one or the other is in the pockets of big business is deluding themselves.
Big money does influence both sides, but the Democratic party hasn't had its soul ripped out like the GOP has, at least not yet. The Tea Party has destroyed the GOP and in the current campaign, facts are irrelevant (even global warming is disputed ffs), insults and jibes are rewarded and policies and track-records are meaningless. The GOP has become a joke because of big money and honest conservatives who actually want the country to succeed are labelled as RINO's and are stripped of their power and tossed aside in favour of brash bullies who want to wage war with the Democrats.
The only thing I can say about Trump supporters with accuracy is that they either have a very low level of intelligence, have a high tendency to be brainwashed, love a bandwagon or else just haven't clue what's going on and how to actually solve it.As for Trump insulting people, there's one thing you can say with some accuracy about all Trump supporters. They don't care about hurt feelings. Explain to me why they should.
I care because nobody has the guts to stand up to the man. He's the classic case of narcissistic personality disorder and when someone challenges him he resorts to his bully-boy tactics and childish insults.As for Megyn Kelly being "brave" to pull him up on his insults against women, who really cares.
Ok, I'll refute that. Rosie O'Donnell is neither fat nor a pig.He called Rosie O'Donnell a fat pig and as yet no one has come out to refute that.
Trump bullies people everywhere he goes. Look at what he did in Scotland where he threatened people with compulsory purchase (which had no legal basis) because he thought their houses were ugly and then when they refused, he hurled disgusting insults at guys like Michael Forbes. Here's a video including Trump making up lies and hurling abuse at a poor farmer.There's a difference though. Trump says mean things about people in the public eye, Hillary bullies women weaker than her who have been the victims of terrible crimes into silence. If you think Trump has been worse to women you need some perspective.
If that doesn't show picking on weaker people, I don't know what does.0 -
Advertisement
-
MightyMandarin wrote: »No, it's not a lie. Here's the transcript:
He is not referring to a 'subset' of Mexicans, indeed the only 'subset' he refers to are the one's who aren't in fact criminals, drug traffickers or rapists, implying that the majority are.
He got out of it because he got a doctor's note over some injury to his heel, otherwise he would've been drafted after he graduated. That's beside the point anyway because Donald is a coward who loves to slander McCain with insults over his capture while Donald was so brave he didn't bother volunteering and serving his country, yet has no problem insulting someone who has.
I'm no Hillary fan, but nobody deserves the treatment she receives. For someone who's never been convicted in a court of law, she's been treated like a mass murderer, although some conservatives will probably portray her as exactly that over 'Benghazi'.
As for the big money in the Republican party, that's absolutely laughable. Big money influencing politics is a bipartisan issue and anyone who pretends that one or the other is in the pockets of big business is deluding themselves.
Big money does influence both sides, but the Democratic party hasn't had its soul ripped out like the GOP has, at least not yet. The Tea Party has destroyed the GOP and in the current campaign, facts are irrelevant (even global warming is disputed ffs), insults and jibes are rewarded and policies and track-records are meaningless. The GOP has become a joke because of big money and honest conservatives who actually want the country to succeed are labelled as RINO's and are stripped of their power and tossed aside in favour of brash bullies who want to wage war with the Democrats.
The only thing I can say about Trump supporters with accuracy is that they either have a very low level of intelligence, have a high tendency to be brainwashed, love a bandwagon or else just haven't clue what's going on and how to actually solve it.
I care because nobody has the guts to stand up to the man. He's the classic case of narcissistic personality disorder and when someone challenges him he resorts to his bully-boy tactics and childish insults.
Ok, I'll refute that. Rosie O'Donnell is neither fat nor a pig.
Trump bullies people everywhere he goes. Look at what he did in Scotland where he threatened people with compulsory purchase (which had no legal basis) because he thought their houses were ugly and then when they refused, he hurled disgusting insults at guys like Michael Forbes. Here's a video including Trump making up lies and hurling abuse at a poor farmer.
If that doesn't show picking on weaker people, I don't know what does.
Trump was referencing the fact that Mexico pressures criminals to leave Mexico and flee to the US. They don't want to pay for them. Get your facts right and don't cherry pick a small part of a larger point that he was making.
Trump's draft number was never called. Persist in the lie all you want. The insinuation that he "got a doctor's note" is way off the mark. They don't allow your local GP to do the medical exam. He was examined by a military doctor and given a designation that meant he would only have been called in the event of a national emergency. His student deferments were routine.Ok, I'll refute that. Rosie O'Donnell is neither fat nor a pig.
It seems your relationship with the truth us about as good as the person you're criticising.
You have a perception of the Republican party that hasn't evolved past 2012. You don't seem to realise that the world has changed around you and so it's difficult to even begin to cut through some of the crap you're saying.
Apparently the Democratic party still has a soul. I mean come on. Where do I even start. Goldman Sachs speaking fees? Obama's biggest donors? Hillary's biggest donors? Saudi funding? Hillary seeking donations for political favours in office? Voter intimidation? Voter fraud? It's because of people like you that the Democrats get away with so much. Because you've swallowed the propaganda you'll always believe they're the lesser of two evils.0 -
Amazing the power the reporting from Iowa will have, it'll be weeks til either result is fully known.0
-
Trump was referencing the fact that Mexico pressures criminals to leave Mexico and flee to the US. They don't want to pay for them. Get your facts right and don't cherry pick a small part of a larger point that he was making.
Trump's draft number was never called. Persist in the lie all you want. The insinuation that he "got a doctor's note" is way off the mark. They don't allow your local GP to do the medical exam. He was examined by a military doctor and given a designation that meant he would only have been called in the event of a national emergency. His student deferments were routine.
It seems your relationship with the truth us about as good as the person you're criticising.
You have a perception of the Republican party that hasn't evolved past 2012. You don't seem to realise that the world has changed around you and so it's difficult to even begin to cut through some of the crap you're saying.
Apparently the Democratic party still has a soul. I mean come on. Where do I even start. Goldman Sachs speaking fees? Obama's biggest donors? Hillary's biggest donors? Saudi funding? Hillary seeking donations for political favours in office? Voter intimidation? Voter fraud? It's because of people like you that the Democrats get away with so much. Because you've swallowed the propaganda you'll always believe they're the lesser of two evils.
Show me one piece of evidence that says Mexico encourages its criminals to flee to America. Otherwise that statement is blatant and utter racism.
He's still a coward who insults war-vets yet couldn't muster enough courage to fight for his country himself.
The fact you'd stand by a statement such as that proves my point about the people who support Trump.
The Republican party has devolved since 2012. It's now more right-wing than ever, lies are spewed all over the debate stage and only the most insulting, narcisstic pathologically-lying candidates are high in the polls.
At least none of the above has occurred thus far and the debate stage remains relatively lie-free. It's also ironic you claim 'voter fraud and intimidation' because the Republican state govts. have done nothing but ruin democracy with the voter ID laws designed to target the poor (Democrat) voters.0 -
MightyMandarin wrote: »Show me one piece of evidence that says Mexico encourages its criminals to flee to America. Otherwise that statement is blatant and utter racism.
He's still a coward who insults war-vets yet couldn't muster enough courage to fight for his country himself.
The fact you'd stand by a statement such as that proves my point about the people who support Trump.
The Republican party has devolved since 2012. It's now more right-wing than ever, lies are spewed all over the debate stage and only the most insulting, narcisstic pathologically-lying candidates are high in the polls.
At least none of the above has occurred thus far and the debate stage remains relatively lie-free. It's also ironic you claim 'voter fraud and intimidation' because the Republican state govts. have done nothing but ruin democracy with the voter ID laws designed to target the poor (Democrat) voters.
He didn't insult war vets, he insulted a war vet. Difference. The difference is lost on a lot of dishonest people who similarly try and pretend that an insult against Megyn Kelly or Carly Fiorina is an attack on all women. It's just phoney outrage for political propaganda purposes and plays right into Trump's hands.
It's not more right wing. It's actually come to the centre on economic policies but you wouldn't know that because you're not paying attention to the facts. It has become more populist. Not more right wing.
Voter ID laws are designed to prevent dead people from voting for Democrats. The fact that Democrats are against voter ID should be a major red flag for any thinking person. If someone can register to vote they can apply for a photo ID. You can be asked to produce ID at a polling booth in Ireland and no one thinks that's an assault on Democracy. It's actually kind of funny to see someone make that argument on boards.ie without a hint of irony.
And Trump isn't a pathological liar. If you read his book the Art of the Deal you'll see plenty in there about "truthful hyperbole" but not outright lying. He has made many grand claims and taken lots of criticism only to see his poll numbers surge when his claim is proven right. That's because he makes his claims in an unbelievable way so that when he's proven right it gets maximum coverage.0 -
-
He didn't insult war vets, he insulted a war vet. Difference. The difference is lost on a lot of dishonest people who similarly try and pretend that an insult against Megyn Kelly or Carly Fiorina is an attack on all women.
I used to wonder why so many people supported Trump. It slowly dawned on me that - leaving aside the rump of his supporters who are, let's face it, outright racists and misogynists - the trick is, quite simply, self-deception.
Trump himself gives masterclasses in this all the time. He'll say something, and then claim that he didn't say it, and that it's outrageous that anyone could possibly claim that he said it.
Let's take your first claim: "He didn't insult war vets, he insulted a war vet." On the face of it, this seems plausible. True, he insulted one rather prominent veteran, John McCain. Now, if he had insulted McCain over his political leanings, or his voting record, or, hell, his dress sense, your point might have some validity. But, no: he claimed that McCain wasn't a war hero because he was captured. That's insulting to every soldier who's ever been captured, and it takes a breathtaking act of self-deception to believe otherwise.
Similarly, his remarks about Kelly or Fiorina. He suggested that nobody could vote for Fiorina because of her looks. Again, you can hand-wave all you like about how this is "just" him insulting one woman (if you carefully ignore all the insults he has thrown at other women), but if you're going to pretend that it's not symptomatic of a deep-rooted misogyny, you're not fooling anyone but yourself.
But let's leave all that aside for a second. The wider point here is that we're talking about a candidate for president of the USA who doesn't seem to understand any form of debate other than insults. It really is a horrifying reflection on American society, and on modern society in general, that someone like this can be seriously considered a contender for head of state of the world's most powerful country.
Think about the field day certain commentators have had every time Joe Biden made a gaffe. Now imagine that it's not the VP we're talking about, but the president; and that it's not accidental misstatements, but boorish and offensive bragado. Imagine further that it's not something that crops up every couple of months on a slow news day, but every time he opens his mouth.
Is that the president America wants? Seriously?0 -
This post has been deleted.0
-
This post had been deleted.
I agree with you. This is part of the reason why I hate Hillary's constant jibes about the GOP because the party is essentially two different parties in one. The likes of Boehner lose their jobs because they make deals with Democrats; a sin for any 'real Republican'. Even the Libertarian end with Rand Paul is cast out when bills like the Patriot Act are put forward.0 -
He didn't insult war vets, he insulted a war vet. Difference. The difference is lost on a lot of dishonest people who similarly try and pretend that an insult against Megyn Kelly or Carly Fiorina is an attack on all women. It's just phoney outrage for political propaganda purposes and plays right into Trump's hands.
It's not more right wing. It's actually come to the centre on economic policies but you wouldn't know that because you're not paying attention to the facts. It has become more populist. Not more right wing.
Voter ID laws are designed to prevent dead people from voting for Democrats. The fact that Democrats are against voter ID should be a major red flag for any thinking person. If someone can register to vote they can apply for a photo ID. You can be asked to produce ID at a polling booth in Ireland and no one thinks that's an assault on Democracy. It's actually kind of funny to see someone make that argument on boards.ie without a hint of irony.
And Trump isn't a pathological liar. If you read his book the Art of the Deal you'll see plenty in there about "truthful hyperbole" but not outright lying. He has made many grand claims and taken lots of criticism only to see his poll numbers surge when his claim is proven right. That's because he makes his claims in an unbelievable way so that when he's proven right it gets maximum coverage.
So that's still no evidence about Mexico yeah? Good to see your claims are just as baseless as Trump's, Walshy.
Oscar adressed your point on this already, and he's right; if you really believe that you're deceiving yourself.
They're not designed to prevent dead people from voting, they're supposedly designed to prevent voter fraud. The problem is, that's not why they were made. Between 2004 and 2012 over the course of all the national elections when 350m total votes were cast, the number of cases involving voter fraud was 86. Yes, 86. Of all the problems that could be addressed, this was the one the GOP went after. So what could possibly be the real reason? Making sure the poorest people with no drivers license, passport and certainly no college ID couldn't vote? Surely not..0 -
Advertisement
-
MightyMandarin wrote: »I agree with you. This is part of the reason why I hate Hillary's constant jibes about the GOP because the party is essentially two different parties in one. The likes of Boehner lose their jobs because they make deals with Democrats; a sin for any 'real Republican'. Even the Libertarian end with Rand Paul is cast out when bills like the Patriot Act are put forward.
It's not the democrats job to sort out the republican party, they should be hammering them on the fact the party has become a joke. The republicans need to decide what they stand for and what they want because the current mixture of extremes is not doing them any good. They need to recognise demographics have changed and they will never get the presidency fear mongering and attacking.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement