2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Brian?

AbusesToilets wrote: »

While I would certainly agree that torture is not something that the US should support, if US personnel are captured by non-state actors, such as the Taliban or ISIS, they are likely to face torture and worse regardless of the US's actions.

The media likes to portray any interrogation techniques beyond basic questioning as torture, choosing to overlook the nature of the persons being questioned. They are not uniformed members of a recognised military, they are suspected terrorists. They aren't subject to the treaties that cover armies at war, and are unlikely to treat US personnel as such.

So 2 wrongs do make a right?

AbusesToilets

oscarBravo wrote: »

...none of which makes torture acceptable.

Dressing it up as "enhanced interrogation" is a nice Orwellian/Cheneyian argument, but that doesn't make it not torture.

I don't consider sleep deprivation and stress positions to be torture. You likely disagree, but they are viable techniques and a far cry from the treatment a US soldier would receive at the hands of the various Islamist groups.

Akrasia

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I don't consider sleep deprivation and stress positions to be torture. You likely disagree, but they are viable techniques and a far cry from the treatment a US soldier would receive at the hands of the various Islamist groups.

The U. S. antics at Abu Ghraib prison are still used as a recruitment tool for ISIS.

They use hatred of the West to make themselves stronger. We need to defuse that by demonstrating that western values are open to people of all backgrounds

Stooping to their level would be a tactical disaster

ancapailldorcha

We appear to be veering off topic again. Back on course please.

AbusesToilets

I would be very interested in the candidates being questioned on where they fall in continuing Obama's efforts at rapprochement with Iran and whether they would speak out against Saudi Arabia's involvement in supporting terrorism against the West, not to mention its economic warfare by means of oil market manipulation.

Fr Tod Umptious

I read on the BBC News app that Trump is now questioning Rubio's eligibility.
Because was born to non citizen parents.

Rubio has basically old him to f**k off.

Does anyone think Rubio has a chance to win this nomination ?

BoJack Horseman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Does anyone think Rubio has a chance to win this nomination ?

He is the establishment candidate, so he will always stand a chance.

He'll remain in until the end.

Mr.Micro

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I read on the BBC News app that Trump is now questioning Rubio's eligibility.
Because was born to non citizen parents.

Rubio has basically old him to f**k off.

Does anyone think Rubio has a chance to win this nomination ?

Somebody has to stop Trump, anybody? Him in office would mean Armageddon, IMO.

Mr.Micro

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I would be very interested in the candidates being questioned on where they fall in continuing Obama's efforts at rapprochement with Iran and whether they would speak out against Saudi Arabia's involvement in supporting terrorism against the West, not to mention its economic warfare by means of oil market manipulation.

So long as it keeps selling oil to the West, the other points matter little.

Fr Tod Umptious

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Somebody has to stop Trump, anybody? Him in office would mean Armageddon, IMO.

But can Rubio stop Trump ?
At what point if any does the wheels come off Trumps bandwagon.

I think Rubio wins in Nov if he is nominated, not sure about Trump though.

Rubio is to the GOP in 2016 what Obama was to the Dems. in 2008.
Young, ethnic and up against an old and tired candidate from the party that has held the presidency for 8 years.

Mr.Micro

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But can Rubio stop Trump ?
At what point if any does the wheels come off Trumps bandwagon.

I think Rubio wins in Nov if he is nominated, not sure about Trump though.

Rubio is to the GOP in 2016 what Obama was to the Dems. in 2008.
Young, ethnic and up against an old and tired candidate from the party that has held the presidency for 8 years.

Not sure either. I never expected Trump to be where he is at the minute. Despite his vile comments, nay probably because of them he is up there. An unknown and a real threat to our world. I just hope that people will see sense before long.

AbusesToilets

Mr.Micro wrote: »

So long as it keeps selling oil to the West, the other points matter little.

It sells oil to Europe, but it's not the only possible supplier. A developed Iran could serious threaten their market. It also been working to crash the US natural gas and shale oil development by driving the oil price down, which is also negatively affecting Russia.

JPNelsforearm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Not sure either. I never expected Trump to be where he is at the minute. Despite his vile comments, nay probably because of them he is up there. An unknown and a real threat to our world. I just hope that people will see sense before long.

Melodramatics much? This irrational and baseless loathing is as bad as the Glenn Beck "Obama is a homosexual muslim who will be putting us all in FEMA camps" type of stuff. Trump is just what the US needs. This " export and gut your manufacturing base whilst increasing and importing the welfare class" style of politics is dead.

JPNelsforearm

Good article on the rise of Trump.
http://buchanan.org/blog/buchanan-trumps-rise-is-rejection-of-quarter-century-of-bush-republicanism-124847?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PatrickBuchanan+%28Pat+Buchanan+Update%29

"In the GOP nomination race, the chickens of a quarter century of Bush Republicanism have come home to roost,” Buchanan told Breitbart. “Trump’s triumphs to date are due to his recognition of, and identification with, the Middle American revolt against Bush family ideology and policy, and what it has produced.”

Buchanan explained that “America is rejecting the Bush immigration policy,” which has “proffered amnesty” to “12 million illegals… because it said the United States is helpless to do anything about their presence here.”

“America’s establishment has failed America,” Buchanan said, “The single clearest message in the presidential campaign of 2015-2016 is that the American people would like to cleanse our capital city of its ruling class.”

"Trump repudiated all three pillars of Republican globalism: namely, military adventurism, immigration multiculturalism, and trade globalism.

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), who shares Bush’s goals for more global trade, more immigration, and more foreign adventurism, was quick to defend Bush’s enduring legacy during the debate. “He kept us safe, and I am forever grateful to what he did for this country,” Rubio said earnestly as he was met with uproarious applause from the GOP donor-stacked audience.

Buchanan, who has not made any endorsement in the race, explained that the American people are rejecting the trade globalism of Bush Republicans that “carted off what was once the greatest manufacturing base the world had ever seen”."

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

The super delegates she has are free to change their mind any number of times up until the actual nomination process. The last time super delegates selected a candidate that was contrary to the popular vote, democrats disenfranchised their voters and lost the election to Ronald Reagan in a colossal landslide.

And 2008...

eire4

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The good news is the reopening of relations with Cuba but even that is opposed by all the Republican leaders.

Agreed. That has been a positive move. No doubtnot everything Obama has done is bad. But for me his militarism, his surveilence state, not reigning in militarized police and his trade policy the TPP being the final straw for me has me in the camp of not liking what Obama has done as president overall.

KingBrian2

eire4 wrote: »

Agreed. That has been a positive move. No doubtnot everything Obama has done is bad. But for me his militarism, his surveilence state, not reigning in militarized police and his trade policy the TPP being the final straw for me has me in the camp of not liking what Obama has done as president overall.

You wouldn't be what the Republicans call Obamabots. Their way of lampooning admirers of the President. I'd like to see what the Obama supporters themselves the core groups are going to sway Hillary or Bernie. They may play a big role as the election goes on. He won two election terms and amazingly liberals in the South voted Obama as well. Not too bad for a Marxist Socialist. Personally I believe he has restored America's tattered reputation but on foreign policy he has messed up and listened too much to the hawks. Also the UN needs serious reform, not going to happen if Congress does not even approve being in the UN.

eire4

Overheal wrote: »

The super delegates she has are free to change their mind any number of times up until the actual nomination process. The last time super delegates selected a candidate that was contrary to the popular vote, democrats disenfranchised their voters and lost the election to Ronald Reagan in a colossal landslide.

Very good point. As things stand in terms of delegates actually voted for it is actually 51-51 between Sanders and Clinton. I have said before given one of the key themes to the Sanders campaign is that of a rigged economy if Clinton needs unelected super delegates to win the Democratic nomination then they are in trouble come November as that kind of scenario is exactly the kind of scenario that would enrage many Sanders supporters who are independents.

eire4

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You wouldn't be what the Republicans call Obamabots. Their way of lampooning admirers of the President. I'd like to see what the Obama supporters themselves the core groups are going to sway Hillary or Bernie. They may play a big role as the election goes on. He won two election terms and amazingly liberals in the South voted Obama as well. Not too bad for a Marxist Socialist. Personally I believe he has restored America's tattered reputation but on foreign policy he has messed up and listened too much to the hawks. Also the UN needs serious reform, not going to happen if Congress does not even approve being in the UN.

Haha I may be many things but an Obamabot I certainly am not. Really for me Obama has been a massive disappointment as a president really. He has just kept the killing and the war machine motoring along and certainly not made the world a safer place quite the opposite I would say. The spying and turning the US into an Orwellian survelience state, he has gone after whistleblowers, the police have been militarized and he has done little to reign in their out of control behaviour. While economcially sure he stopped the bleeding that he inherited from Bush and in many statistical ways made things better. But in reality the vast majority of that improvement has continued to flow towards the top with the vast majority of Americans not seeing any improvement in their incomes. In General he talked a big game but in the end for me he has been a massive disappointment.

RobertKK

I was talking to a friend today, he couldn't believe his sister who was an illegal immigrant in America, but was naturalised through marriage.
He told me he was chatting to her, and she was giving out about illegal immigrants coming into America, he couldn't believe what she was saying.
He told me she is supporting Trump.

It was the funniest moment of my day, I know his sister and even I was dumbfounded at her blindness to how she was once an illegal immigrant.
You would think someone like Rubio might be more acceptable.

Fr Tod Umptious

RobertKK wrote: »

I was talking to a friend today, he couldn't believe his sister who was an illegal immigrant in America, but was naturalised through marriage.
He told me he was chatting to her, and she was giving out about illegal immigrants coming into America, he couldn't believe what she was saying.
He told me she is supporting Trump.

It was the funniest moment of my day, I know his sister and even I was dumbfounded at her blindness to how she was once an illegal immigrant.
You would think someone like Rubio might be more acceptable.

I fund that attitude with a lot of legal Irish on the US, especially recently arrived or recently legalised ones.

They certainly looked down their noses at illegals with their new found rights.

Black Swan

Glancing over 5 recent and different national polls conducted by Fox News, NBC News/WSJ, CBS News, USA Today/Suffolk, and Quinnipiac, all show Trump clearly ahead of Cruz and Rubio except for NBC News/WSJ, where Cruz is slightly ahead. Such variation suggests caution when observing 2016 presidential polling by various organisations. And as mentioned awhile back, I would not accept the RCP poll average with any merit given that it simply averages the results of different polling organisations using different samples, methods, collection times, etc.

Reuters did a non-random convenience sample of Catholics leaving church, including anecdotal comments by a few, suggesting that the Trump and Pope Francis exchange had mixed results. Given that Reuters lacked methodological rigour, was limited to Boston and New York churches, and not nationwide I am uncertain how to interpret their results, except with caution.

RobertKK

Ted Cruz fires his communications manager after he put out tweets saying Rubio made negative comments about the bible.
He put out tweets saying Rubio had said there aren't many answers in the bible.

You have to laugh. TrusTed to tell lies.

colossus-x

eire4 wrote: »

Haha I may be many things but an Obamabot I certainly am not. Really for me Obama has been a massive disappointment as a president really. He has just kept the killing and the war machine motoring along and certainly not made the world a safer place quite the opposite I would say. The spying and turning the US into an Orwellian survelience state, he has gone after whistleblowers, the police have been militarized and he has done little to reign in their out of control behaviour. While economcially sure he stopped the bleeding that he inherited from Bush and in many statistical ways made things better. But in reality the vast majority of that improvement has continued to flow towards the top with the vast majority of Americans not seeing any improvement in their incomes. In General he talked a big game but in the end for me he has been a massive disappointment.

I'm not sure he could have done much about the surveillance which would have been in full swing way before he gained office.

EDIT: The disappointment was they pulled out of IRAQ and left a job undone. I get the 'oh bush did it' thing. But not really. It was a American adventure and they chickened out. This mistake will go one for decades.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And 2008...

In 2008 Obama was the popular candidate, selected by the nomination process who went on to win the election by a solid margin. The primary was tight but ultimately lost by Clinton, at least in part because she started the Muslim rumors.

On a more cheerful subject, regardless of how this election or the next 4-8 years go, I can look forward to the candidacy of Senator Elizabeth Warren.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

In 2008 Obama was the popular candidate, selected by the nomination process who went on to win the election by a solid margin. The primary was tight but ultimately lost by Clinton, at least in part because she started the Muslim tumors.

On a more cheerful subject, regardless of how this election or the next 4-8 years go, I can look forward to the candidacy of Senator Elizabeth Warren.

Hillary won the popular vote.
Is there a breakdown of how superdelegates went?

colossus-x

It seems to me that there is no doubt it's a Trump/Clinton card. As much as there is a fervour about Trump, I think Clinton will utterly thrash him in the end. Something like 70/30.

PS. I predicted the Conservative majority

colossus-x

Overheal wrote: »

she started the Muslim tumors.

.

What's that ?

colossus-x

colossus-x wrote: »

It seems to me that there is no doubt it's a Trump/Clinton card. As much as there is a fervour about Trump, I think Clinton will utterly thrash him in the end. Something like 70/30.

PS. I predicted the Conservative majority

61% is the highest popular vote anyone'ever had, 62 years ago. 70% ain't happening.

Overheal

colossus-x wrote: »

What's that ?

rumors. edited.