2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Akrasia

Trump should just ignore it and let it blow over, but I wonder will he be able to resist the urge to retaliate?

Rjd2

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I respectfully disagree. Trump has sold himself wonderfully as the anti establishment nominee, a guy who is a winner as his non stop bragging about his success and the supposed lack of it for his rivals.

It will be very easy for his PR machine to paint Romney as "stale establishment loser who got hammered last time around" which as you would expect is what is been said.

I think like the Rubio/Cruz attack the other week, its to late in the day really, if Romney had came out hard on Trump in the build up of New Hampshire and even endorsed a rival, I think it would have been a much bigger blow than this.

I think the only way Trump does not get the republican nod, is if everyone else in the race bar one drop out, their isn't enough anti Trump supporters to go around. Its just a matter of one or Rubio or Cruz deciding which one of them it should be.

Just my opinion though.:o

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

Trump should just ignore it and let it blow over, but I wonder will he be able to resist the urge to retaliate?

He ignored it by calling Romney a loser, boasting about having more money than him and implying that Romney would have blown him for an endorsement in 2012

20Cent

At last the sensible wing of the republican party are coming out against trump. Might be too little too late though.

Inquitus

20Cent wrote: »

At last the sensible wing of the republican party are coming out against trump. Might be too little too late though.

It's clear Trump has done wonders to energise the base, if they shaft him, they will more than likely disincentivise alot of people who would go out to vote for him from voting. They also seem a bit late in turning the cannons loose on him. We will see over the next 10 days as that will either give us a Trump GOP nominee or show a resurgence for Cruz or Rubio.

Akrasia

Inquitus wrote: »

It's clear Trump has done wonders to energise the base, if they shaft him, they will more than likely disincentivise alot of people who would go out to vote for him from voting. They also seem a bit late in turning the cannons loose on him. We will see over the next 10 days as that will either give us a Trump GOP nominee or show a resurgence for Cruz or Rubio.

If trump loses the nomination he's likely to play his trump card by going independent and torpedoing any chance of a republican victory in the GE

Inquitus

Akrasia wrote: »

If trump loses the nomination he's likely to play his trump card by going independent and torpedoing any chance of a republican victory in the GE

I agree, and you can't really blame him, the GOP set the procedure for selecting a nominee and shouldn't really interfere to this degree if they don't like the way it's going. I mean love or hate Trump they have had record turnout in most of their primaries.

Colonialboy

Inquitus wrote: »

I agree, and you can't really blame him, the GOP set the procedure for selecting a nominee and shouldn't really interfere to this degree if they don't like the way it's going. I mean love or hate Trump they have had record turnout in most of their primaries.

Yes Republicans are turning out in record highs and Democrats are turning out in historicaly lows numbers.
Thos extra voters are coming from dis-enfranchised and dis-illusioned Americans who are republicans supporters finally seing a candidate who isnt part of the established clique and so are coming out to vote.

Whereas dis-illusioined democrats arent coming out to vote cos they see no point what with hillary running.
But come general election time, those democrats not coming out to vote in the democratic primary, will come out to vote for Trump in the GE.

Inquitus

Colonialboy wrote: »

But come general election time, those democrats not coming out to vote in the democratic primary, will come out to vote for Trump in the GE.

Presume you meant Hillary, and I agree, they know she has it sewn up so Primary voting it not a priority, but they will certainly turn out in larger numbers for a GE.

Colonialboy

Inquitus wrote: »

Presume you meant Hillary, and I agree, they know she has it sewn up so Primary voting it not a priority, but they will certainly turn out in larger numbers for a GE.

No I meant Trump. I think the stay at home Democrats in the primary will come out to vote for Trump in the general election.

Manach

Interesting discussion (mix of IT and politics) on slashdot on the Justice Dept. granting immunity to the person who set up Clinton's Email Server.

ECO_Mental

Colonialboy wrote: »

No I meant Trump. I think the stay at home Democrats in the primary will come out to vote for Trump in the general election.

Are you crazy.......Democrats are going to come out in droves to vote for one of the most hated Republican candidates ever. WHY, I need to hear the logic to this one.......

Akrasia

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Are you crazy.......Democrats are going to come out in droves to vote for one of the most hated Republican candidates ever. WHY, I need to hear the logic to this one.......

Because this is a leap year packed with full moons and Mayan prophecies

BOHtox

Rjd2 wrote: »

I respectfully disagree. Trump has sold himself wonderfully as the anti establishment nominee, a guy who is a winner as his non stop bragging about his success and the supposed lack of it for his rivals.

It will be very easy for his PR machine to paint Romney as "stale establishment loser who got hammered last time around" which as you would expect is what is been said.

I think like the Rubio/Cruz attack the other week, its to late in the day really, if Romney had came out hard on Trump in the build up of New Hampshire and even endorsed a rival, I think it would have been a much bigger blow than this.

I think the only way Trump does not get the republican nod, is if everyone else in the race bar one drop out, their isn't enough anti Trump supporters to go around. Its just a matter of one or Rubio or Cruz deciding which one of them it should be.

Just my opinion though.:o

You could be right. One of the top comments of that video is "this just goes to show you how fúcking pathetic and how far the establishment will go to keep their power. this is disgusting as if we the people are ****ing stupid and cant make our own decisions smfh"

Support mightn't fall too much for Trump but hopefully people rally around Cruz, Rubio or Kasich who would be far better presidents

Canadel

Akrasia wrote: »

Because this is a leap year packed with full moons and Mayan prophecies

No I think it's the culmination of a corruption of the GOP which became an ideological party in the 80s and is suffering for it now. The GOP were like a religion. Had to be against abortion, against gay marriage etc. Couldn't be a republican without that. But obviously not every republican actually cared about those religious issues, so they lied e.g. Mitt Romney. Now there's a candidate who is actually telling 'the truth'. The ideological strait-jacket has been destroyed. And Trump wielded the hammer. And because of this he is seen to be the embodiment of honest politics.

He can get the nomination but I can't see how he wins a general election without some kind of Mayan miracle. Independents and Democrats gonna vote Hilary.

Rjd2

Rjd2 wrote: »

I think the only way Trump does not get the republican nod, is if everyone else in the race bar one drop out, their isn't enough anti Trump supporters to go around. Its just a matter of one or Rubio or Cruz deciding which one of them it should be.

Just my opinion though.:o

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/3/steve-deace-marco-rubio-gets-second-chance-do-righ/?page=all#pagebreak

Reasonably interesting article that, the bookies still have Rubio 2nd fav, but he has very little chance whatsoever, he dropping out would probably be the best thing for the anti Trump brigade.

Its something knowing politics he wouldn't regret in the long term as still only 44. He won't though and will probably suffer the ultimate fail that is losing his home state Florida.

What would you guys be saying to Cruz and Rubio if you had both of their ears?:o

Rjd2

Not a fan of the women, but fair play for displaying a sense of humour.:P

https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/705579415510634496


Looking at this from as a neutral point as possible, but this is a poor performance from trump, the lowlight wasn't him saying he would order the army to commit war crimes which was bleak enough, but none of the rest jumped on him for it. The good news for Trump is Rubio is doing very little of note though and a stinker of a performance from trump here won't stop him cruising the republican nomination.

Colonialboy

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Are you crazy.......Democrats are going to come out in droves to vote for one of the most hated Republican candidates ever. WHY, I need to hear the logic to this one.......

So whats your explanation for why Democrats are not coming out to vote in the primary ?

Why are there historical low turnout for democrats ?

And who are the democrats who arent voting in the primarys going to come out and vote for in the presidential election ?
Are they not going to vote at all ?
It makes no sense they would not vote for their candidate in the primary but would vote for them in the presidential election.

The media, politicos and establishment got it MASSIVELY WRONG regarding the appeal of Trump in the primary and how well he would do.
I think the same people are getting it wrong with how many democrats (especially ones who did not vote in the primary) will switch for Trump in the presidential .

Colonialboy

Nate Silver of fivethirtyeight fame has Trump at 114% of the target delegates he needs to get the nomination.
Nates very astute analysis , this implies Trump would have to have a disastrous run in not to get the nod. And his momentum is only gathering energy.

FreudianSlippers

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I'm what people in the South frequently call a "Yankee Republican" - someone who has fairly fiscally conservative views, but socially very liberal views. These people have long been pushed to the "left" fringe of the Republican party and for the most part straight into the "right" fringe of the Democratic party.

That's until the Tea Party came along. I think the Tea Party and Trump have been the saviour of the "traditional" Republican party which may well have to splinter off into a 3rd party as the insane right fringe (social right, because I don't think the majority of Trump supporters really do have any economic policy or understanding of economics) have hijacked the name "Republican".

Colonialboy

Poor performance from Rubio in the debate.
He spent alot of time directing peopel to look at his website for information on his policys.
Trump made some substantive points about the TPP. Rubio get dragging it back to personal issues.

Trump made some good points about addressing waste fraud and mismanagement in government agencys. No wonder the establishment are concerned.

interesting aspect to the debate.
Trump spent alot of time talking and raising policy issues. But then when the mic passed over to another candidate, they would more often than not bring it back to Trump and personality discussion.
Consistently every candidate regularly kept turning moderator questions directed to them and about their policys into an answer that invovled an attempt to discredit Trump.
At one point Megan Kelly asks Cruz about his immigration poilicy, immigration amnesty and Senator Sessions. Virtually the first sentence out of Cruzs mounth is about Trump and writing cheques.
How can Cruz turn a question to him about his immigration policy into an answer that is 95% about cheques Trump wrote. Very poor moderation, many cnadidates got away without having to answer the question directed to them by just making some random point about Trump.
The cnadidates cant stop talking about Trump. Wow.

FreudianSlippers

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But she makes some valid points that will no doubt be brought up by a lot more people than Ann Coulter between now and November.

I don't see a singe "valid point" raised in that muck at all?

All I see is a slanderous attack on Bill Clinton based on allegations, most of which were proven to be untrue by the FBI and independent investigators, or were recanted at a later time. In fact, two of those women only dodged perjury charges and jail time by rolling on a 3rd individual.

FreudianSlippers

Colonialboy wrote: »

Poor performance from Rubio in the debate.
He spent alot of time directing peopel to look at his website for information on his policys.
Trump made some substantive points about the TPP. Rubio get dragging it back to personal issues.

Trump made some good points about addressing waste fraud and mismanagement in government agencys. No wonder the establishment are concerned.

interesting aspect to the debate.
Trump spent alot of time talking and raising policy issues. But then when the mic passed over to another candidate, they would more often than not bring it back to Trump and personality discussion.

Trump knew how to get him off the rails, by calling him "little Marco" it really derailed Rubio. He got sucked into Trump's trap big time.

BoJack Horseman

Colonialboy wrote: »

Poor performance from Rubio in the debate.
He spent alot of time directing peopel to look at his website for information on his policys.
Trump made some substantive points about the TPP. Rubio get dragging it back to personal issues.

Trump made some good points about addressing waste fraud and mismanagement in government agencys. No wonder the establishment are concerned.

interesting aspect to the debate.
Trump spent alot of time talking and raising policy issues. But then when the mic passed over to another candidate, they would more often than not bring it back to Trump and personality discussion.
Consistently every candidate regularly kept turning moderator questions directed to them and about their policys into an answer that invovled an attempt to discredit Trump.
At one point Megan Kelly asks Cruz about his immigration poilicy, immigration amnesty and Senator Sessions. Virtually the first sentence out of Cruzs mounth is about Trump and writing cheques.
How can Cruz turn a question to him about his immigration policy into an answer that is 95% about cheques Trump wrote. Very poor moderation, many cnadidates got away without having to answer the question directed to them by just making some random point about Trump.
The cnadidates cant stop talking about Trump. Wow.

That is interesting.
Sky News are playing a different angle.
Their 2 min segment being repeated is an edited collage of the other candidates abusing Trump.

Then a shot at the end of Rubio refusing to shake Trumps offered hand.

This may be part of the reason why people on our side of the pond cannot understand why he is winning?
Our media never show any substance.

Colonialboy

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

That is interesting.
Sky News are playing a different angle.
Their 2 min segment being repeated is an edited collage of the other candidates abusing Trump.

Then a shot at the end of Rubio refusing to shake Trumps offered hand.

This may be part of the reason why people on our side of the pond cannot understand why he is winning?
Our media never show any substance.

So then ask yourself two questions
'Who are Sky targetting with that 2 minute segment on repeat ? '
'Why are Sky targetting that demographic with the 2 minute segment on repeat ? '

Is it for peopel who might support Trump and sway them (not much point its the UK they cant vote anyways) ?
So who else are they trying to hit with that repeat repeat segment ?
Is it for educated liberals who discuss politics alot ? perhaps
Why are the targetting them ?
lets just leave it there.. back to the presidential race

Colonialboy

Another interesting outcome from last nights GOP debate,
All the Republican candidates said that whomever wins the nomination, that they will support the nominee.

So all the candidates who claim Trump is not fit for the role of Commander in Chief, have stated they would support Trump if he wins the nomination.

Fr Tod Umptious

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Are you crazy.......Democrats are going to come out in droves to vote for one of the most hated Republican candidates ever. WHY, I need to hear the logic to this one.......

But Trump is not "one of the most hated Republican candidates ever"
Polls and primary result are indicating that he is very popular.
Strong GOP voter turn out in primaries would also indicate the above.

Hillary on the other hand has major popularity problems.
Poor Dem voter turn out in the primaries would also indicate the above.

The Dems really need to get dirty and focus on "stop Trump".
Trying to make Hillary popular is a lost cause at this stage.

RobertKK

GOP voters are energised by Trump, the establishment in the party want an establishment candidate. Trump was fine when he was supporting Romney and Romney was more than happy to have his support.
There is talk that Romney considered running again but feared going up against Trump.

I listen to what Trump has to say, he is not wacko like how some in the media want to portray him. He is the cleverest non politician/evolving politician and he is running rings around the established names.
He plays on fears, he plays on insecurity which is what politicians who want change or maybe not all use. He then gives a message of hope which in his case is make America great again.
All done with his excess charisma, and one can see why he is winning the GOP battle.

Lets face it, we will all be glued to a Trump v Clinton presidential debate. More fireworks than July 4th.

On a local level, Trump always seems to mention Pfizer and Ireland at every rally.

jobbridge4life

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Should it come to it, and against all reason I still hope it doesn't, and Trump is the Republican nominee then Republicans ought to put the country first and vote for the candidate most likely to beat him. Whether that is Hillary or Bernie or another viable third party candidate is to my mind pretty immaterial in this equation.
Donald Trump, as a political entity, is a monstrosity.Among his litany of offences against the spirit of America is: the slurring of whole groups of peoples; pledges to prohibit entry to Muslim immigrants en masse; His protectionist rattlings; promises to stuff the Supreme Court with judges hand picked to ensure the abnegation of established rights and enforce his narrow political 'vision'; virulent misogyny as entertainment; and, racialist rhetoric entirely devoid of reason or facts. Take that together with his willingness to capriciously stoke up fears and the basest instinct of people the comparison with previous fascists is striking and chilling.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Certainly you are correct, the Republican party is not as universally atrocious as certain sections of the media both here and in the US itself likes to make out. That said it is far worse than most of its supporters would acknowledge and is rapidly declining. Moreover they have no one to blame but themselves.
Moderate and reasonable Republicans may be turning around now, aghast at what has become of their party but they facilitated it. John McCain is appalled that Donald Trump may be the nominee? Well respectfully he ought to look at what he and his campaign foisted unto the electorate in the form of Sarah Palin. The Bush family are shocked that such a hateful man with so little respect for others might be President? They need to look at the 2004 election and think about whether GWB's stoking up of homophobia and empowering the evangelical right played a role in making today's mess. Mitt deplores Donald Trump, he was desirous of and happy to receive Trump's endorsement last time in spite of the many egregious and perposterous things Trump had done up to that point. The moderates, and in particular the business elite, of the Republican party have been happy to tolerate the quackery, prejudice, religious extremism and down right idiocy of many in their party for too long and now they are reaping the results.

I'm reminded of a quote from Cold Mountain, Renee Zellweger's character discussing the origins of the Civil War remarks... 'Every piece of this is man's bullsh!t. They call this war a cloud over the land. But they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say 'Sh*t, it's raining!'

One simply hopes that the entire US and indeed world doesn't have to pay for their mistakes however.

InTheTrees

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The Dems really need to get dirty and focus on "stop Trump".
Trying to make Hillary popular is a lost cause at this stage.

Until the conventions when nominees are picked you'll find the various campaigns will stay reasonably quiet about the opposing parties candidates.