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2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP
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Colonialboy wrote: »Same could be said for Trump. only his supporters are smart enough to see through the media and establishments agenda and are voting for him anywyas.
A great night for America, a great night for democracy with another record turnout for the GOP.
Trump will anihilate Hilary when the go head to head and he will turn alot of her voters and even convince some GOP voters who said they will never vote for him.
Once Trump has the nomination in his back pocket he will tone down the rhetoric, donors will come flooding in and Trump will go to town on Hilary who has so many skeletons in her closet it will look like MJs Thriller video.
and you approve of potential presidents using hate,racism and greed as tools to ascend to the White House?-as long as they 'tone it down' afterwards?-the one dimensional morality free thinking of the right has been the reason that so many 'beasts' have risen in our history invariably ensuring false imprisonment,torture and often genocide as part of their tenure-0 -
Wouldn't toning it down be seen as Trump selling out to the establishment?
The problem with toning it down is the genie is already out of the bottle for many!Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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Wouldn't toning it down be seen as Trump selling out to the establishment?
The problem with toning it down is the genie is already out of the bottle for many!
His supporters will find some sort of excuse for it. He is just trying to trick the "cucks" into voting for him so he can make everything better, it's for their own good.0 -
The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »His supporters will find some sort of excuse for it. He is just trying to trick the "cucks" into voting for him so he can make everything better, it's for their own good.
What's maybe more insane than any of the rest of it, as evidenced also in this thread, is people who are voting for him (or say they would vote for him) because they don't believe what he is saying and that is is mostly exaggeration and lies on his part.
Call me cynical, but I have a hard time believing that and reckon a lot of these people just don't want to say why they really support him.0 -
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Not the best night, indeed. Looks like the US presidential election will probably be a choice between right wing and further right wing.0
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What's maybe more insane than any of the rest of it, as evidenced also in this thread, is people who are voting for him (or say they would vote for him) because they don't believe what he is saying and that is is mostly exaggeration and lies on his part.
Call me cynical, but I have a hard time believing that and reckon a lot of these people just don't want to say why they really support him.
What like ending the war on Drugs? Ending the criminality, taking away criminal gangs and the violence they bring? Sealing the border, deporting illegals? Fighting the corporatocracy? Fighting the two party cronyism, giving two fingers to the PC brigade? In terms of his current positions as regards womens rights, immigration, gay rights etc, in the Republican field he stands alone.
Do I believe half or even a quarter of the things Trump says? No, do I believe he believes half or even a quarter of the things he says? No, he is saying things to attract as many dissatisfied voters as he can, hence why some of those things jar with the opinions he held when he wasnt running for the Republican nomination. Its called strategy. Even at that he is still not as dangerous as the rest of the Republican field or Hillary Clinton, who will bring the US to war for imperialist aims, guarantee it.
The system needs reform Trump will bring that reform, look at the rest of the field, Goldman Sachs candidates, religious lunatics and a communist relic, Trump is the least worst option.
Worst case scenario is literally that Trump is basically the same as all the other candidates, another Obama, a politician.
Best case scenario he instigates true political reform.
Also, I find him genuinely funny and enjoy listening to him.0 -
Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭Join Date:Posts: 37131
A wishful assertion based on zero evidence.Colonialboy wrote: »sort of like your assertion so...
Less of this, please.The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34
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Wouldn't toning it down be seen as Trump selling out to the establishment?
The problem with toning it down is the genie is already out of the bottle for many!
This is the crux of the issue America rejects absolute power. It is why they value their constitution so much. Most Americans are not lunatics or thugs. They know Trump is right about a lot of core political issues. Then again the average American is careless about politics in general.0 -
KingBrian2 wrote: »This is the crux of the issue America rejects absolute power. It is why they value their constitution so much. Most Americans are not lunatics or thugs. They know Trump is right about a lot of core political issues. Then again the average American is careless about politics in general.
What core political issues?0 -
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JPNelsforearm wrote: »What would those reasons be?
What like ending the war on Drugs? Ending the criminality, taking away criminal gangs and the violence they bring? Sealing the border, deporting illegals? Fighting the corporatocracy? Fighting the two party cronyism, giving two fingers to the PC brigade? In terms of his current positions as regards womens rights, immigration, gay rights etc, in the Republican field he stands alone.
Do I believe half or even a quarter of the things Trump says? No, do I believe he believes half or even a quarter of the things he says? No, he is saying things to attract as many dissatisfied voters as he can, hence why some of those things jar with the opinions he held when he wasnt running for the Republican nomination. Its called strategy. Even at that he is still not as dangerous as the rest of the Republican field or Hillary Clinton, who will bring the US to war for imperialist aims, guarantee it.
The system needs reform Trump will bring that reform, look at the rest of the field, Goldman Sachs candidates, religious lunatics and a communist relic, Trump is the least worst option.
Worst case scenario is literally that Trump is basically the same as all the other candidates, another Obama, a politician.
Best case scenario he instigates true political reform.
Also, I find him genuinely funny and enjoy listening to him.
So... in essence your support for him boils down to... he is a liar who I can't trust but he he is charming so...
I mean I get not believing Trump... who could? But then if you don't believe him and you still want him to be President aren't you just hoping against hope and in a void of evidence, in spite of everything he has said that by some random coincidence he happens to be a match with what you desire. I don't understand how anyone could think that way.0 -
JPNelsforearm wrote: »What would those reasons be?
What like ending the war on Drugs? Ending the criminality, taking away criminal gangs and the violence they bring? Sealing the border, deporting illegals? Fighting the corporatocracy? Fighting the two party cronyism, giving two fingers to the PC brigade? In terms of his current positions as regards womens rights, immigration, gay rights etc, in the Republican field he stands alone.
Do I believe half or even a quarter of the things Trump says? No, do I believe he believes half or even a quarter of the things he says? No, he is saying things to attract as many dissatisfied voters as he can, hence why some of those things jar with the opinions he held when he wasnt running for the Republican nomination. Its called strategy. Even at that he is still not as dangerous as the rest of the Republican field or Hillary Clinton, who will bring the US to war for imperialist aims, guarantee it.
The system needs reform Trump will bring that reform, look at the rest of the field, Goldman Sachs candidates, religious lunatics and a communist relic, Trump is the least worst option.
Worst case scenario is literally that Trump is basically the same as all the other candidates, another Obama, a politician.
Best case scenario he instigates true political reform.
Also, I find him genuinely funny and enjoy listening to him.
If you don't believe anything he says, how are you supposed to know what he will do if he gets elected?
The worst case scenario is a lot worse than business as usual. It's a hell of a lot worse.0 -
jobbridge4life wrote: »So... in essence your support for him boils down to... he is a liar who I can't trust but he he is charming so...
I mean I get not believing Trump... who could? But then if you don't believe him and you still want him to be President aren't you just hoping against hope and in a void of evidence, in spite of everything he has said that by some random coincidence he happens to be a match with what you desire. I don't understand how anyone could think that way.
No he says lots of things I agree with as regards corporatism, immigration, political correctness etc
"hoping against hope" Wasnt that what Obama ran on? Trump at least, is an anti establishment candidate, everyone is out to get him, that says enough, more than he ever could . A vote for Trump is a rejection of the establishment.0 -
If you don't believe anything he says, how are you supposed to know what he will do if he gets elected?
The worst case scenario is a lot worse than business as usual. It's a hell of a lot worse.
No its not, the President doesnt have absolute power, he can be impeached, this is why the hysteria around Trump drives his support, Trump cannot be worse then the Presidents they already have had, calm down, that line of "who knows what he will do" is utterly hysterical.0 -
JPNelsforearm wrote: »No he says lots of things I agree with as regards corporatism, immigration, political correctness etc
"hoping against hope" Wasnt that what Obama ran on? Trump at least, is an anti establishment candidate, everyone is out to get him, that says enough, more than he ever could . A vote for Trump is a rejection of the establishment.
But you don't believe him? So in essence you are just hoping for no reason at all that real Trump is the one you want him to be. I mean you could literally do that with virtually any politician.
BTW Trump is 100% part of the establishment, billionaire, scion of wealth, political donor, but just like Boris in England he is funny enough and wacky enough to trick people into thinking he is something new.0 -
jobbridge4life wrote: »But you don't believe him? So in essence you are just hoping for no reason at all that real Trump is the one you want him to be. I mean you could literally do that with virtually any politician.
BTW Trump is 100% part of the establishment, billionaire, scion of wealth, political donor, but just like Boris in England he is funny enough and wacky enough to trick people into thinking he is something new.
He isnt part of the establishment or have you not been following this campaign? Literally everyone is attacking him. He's self funding, the Republican donors and party leaders held a meeting on how to get rid of him. The democrats attack him, the left wing lunatics hate him, the religious nutters dont trust him. The Israeli lobby tells people not to vote for him. He's the ultimate anti establishment candidate.0 -
JPNelsforearm wrote: »No its not, the President doesnt have absolute power, he can be impeached, this is why the hysteria around Trump drives his support, Trump cannot be worse then the Presidents they already have had, calm down, that line of "who knows what he will do" is utterly hysterical.
George W Bush bankrupted the country started 2 wars and completely destabilised the Middle East, brought in the patriot act, pulled out of the Kyoto agreement (effectively stalling any action on Global warming), started guantanamo bay and 'extraordinary rendition' destroying the U.S. reputation abroad, destroyed public education with 'no child left behind' etc etc etc
A bad president can do enormous enormous damage.
Trump is even more dangerous than Bush was. Bush was just a puppet for the neocons, Trump is a pathological liar, a narcissist, a populist demagogue who is stirring up another race war...
You are extremely naive if you think this man can't do much harm.0 -
JPNelsforearm wrote: »What would those reasons be?
What like ending the war on Drugs?
http://reason.com/blog/2015/11/09/when-he-called-for-an-end-to-the-war-on
Stephanopoulos: You used to think that legalization, taking the profit out, would solve that problem. What changed your mind?
Trump: Well, I did and I—I —not think about it, I said it's something that should be studied and maybe should continue to be studied. But it's not something I'd be willing to do right now. I think it's something that I've always said maybe it has to be looked at because we do such a poor job of policing. We don't want to build walls. We don't want to do anything. And if you're not going to want to do the policing, you're going to have to start thinking about other alternatives. But it's not something that I would want to do. But it's something that certainly has been looked at and I looked at it. If we police properly, we shouldn't do that.Ending the criminality, taking away criminal gangs and the violence they bring?Sealing the border,deporting illegals?Fighting the corporatocracy?Fighting the two party cronyism,giving two fingers to the PC brigade?In terms of his current positions as regards womens rights, immigration, gay rights etc, in the Republican field he stands alone.
Immigration - you clearly know nothing about the Republican party.
Gay rights - He is anti SSM, again fitting the Republican party like a glove.Do I believe half or even a quarter of the things Trump says? No, do I believe he believes half or even a quarter of the things he says? No, he is saying things to attract as many dissatisfied voters as he can,hence why some of those things jar with the opinions he held when he wasnt running for the Republican nomination.Its called strategy. Even at that he is still not as dangerous as the rest of the Republican field or Hillary Clinton, who will bring the US to war for imperialist aims, guarantee it.The system needs reform Trump will bring that reform,look at the rest of the field, Goldman Sachs candidates, religious lunatics and a communist relic, Trump is the least worst option.
Good that he's not pandering to the religious lunatics though...
Oh.
You also clearly have no idea what communism is, but that's not surprising.Worst case scenario is literally that Trump is basically the same as all the other candidates, another Obama, a politician.Best case scenario he instigates true political reform.0 -
JPNelsforearm wrote: »He has said enough and stayed enough on message in some instances that he cannot row back on them, trade, immigration and the wall, military, even at that its still more than any other candidate promises. I believe he is sincere on those issues, populist on others, not reflecting his real beliefs, see legalising drugs v his position now becasue he needs to be against it to win the nomination
So, plainly put, I was right. You are indulging in a very extreme form of confirmation bias. To be honest its actually more than that even because you are actively picking and choosing from your own favourite candidate, what policies he really means and which he doesn't. In that case I'll have a side of Bernie with all the free college but hold the excess taxes, they're just something he says after all.JPNelsforearm wrote: »He isnt part of the establishment or have you not been following this campaign? Literally everyone is attacking him. He's self funding, the Republican donors and party leaders held a meeting on how to get rid of him. The democrats attack him, the left wing lunatics hate him, the religious nutters dont trust him. The Israeli lobby tells people not to vote for him. He's the ultimate anti establishment candidate.
I ahve been and as far as I can tell my observation is correct. You yourself said he has been saying what he needs to in order to trick enough people into supporting him and will do pretty much whatever he feels like when in power. Sounds like your Grade A Mass Produced Politician to me.0 -
JPNelsforearm wrote: »No he says lots of things I agree with as regards corporatism, immigration, political correctness etc
You're going to need to go into some actual detail at some point - which policies and proposals specifically are you referring to?0 -
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jobbridge4life wrote: »But you don't believe him? So in essence you are just hoping for no reason at all that real Trump is the one you want him to be. I mean you could literally do that with virtually any politician.
But not every politician goes out of their way to bash Muslims.0 -
Trumps not doing that.
http://reason.com/blog/2015/11/09/when-he-called-for-an-end-to-the-war-on
Stephanopoulos: You used to think that legalization, taking the profit out, would solve that problem. What changed your mind?
Trump: Well, I did and I—I —not think about it, I said it's something that should be studied and maybe should continue to be studied. But it's not something I'd be willing to do right now. I think it's something that I've always said maybe it has to be looked at because we do such a poor job of policing. We don't want to build walls. We don't want to do anything. And if you're not going to want to do the policing, you're going to have to start thinking about other alternatives. But it's not something that I would want to do. But it's something that certainly has been looked at and I looked at it. If we police properly, we shouldn't do that.
Will this also come with winning lottery tickets for all?And tanking the economy to do so.
Which would further tank the economy.
Yes, that is exactly what we can expect from the corporate billionaire!By running for one of the two parties.So ruin the country all in the interest of a childish 'nyeh nyeh'. I wonder why people who use terms like 'PC brigade' get mocked so often, and labelled as immature.Womens rights - staunchly pro life, wants to defund Planned Parenthood, frequently makes misogynistic attacks against women. Yeah, he's in complete contrast to the Republican party positions on women's right :rolleyes: - must be why many women's websites consider him the worst candidate on that front.
http://www.lifenews.com/2016/03/14/attention-donald-trump-killing-330000-babies-outweighs-any-good-planned-parenthood-does/Immigration - you clearly know nothing about the Republican party.Gay rights - He is anti SSM, again fitting the Republican party like a glove.So he is lying, and you fully acknowledge that but still support him.
Translation: hence why he is lying on these issues.
Trump has gone on record saying he will bring torture and bombings. What you know already is that Trump will bring war. Trump supporters also love to bash Clinton on issues in the middle east, but guess who supported both the Iraq War and Libyan intervention? That's right, Trump.
Again, massive lie, Trump didnt support Iraq, nor did he support LibyaYeah, why elect a politician who has been bought out mostly by corporate interests when you can just elect the embodiment of those corporate interests directly?Good that he's not pandering to the religious lunatics though...You also clearly have no idea what communism is, but that's not surprising.That's not true and you know it. Worst case scenario is he causes race riots on a scale not seen before, helps ISIS grow a hell of a lot stronger than they are now or have ever been (seriously, their recruitment department must be LOVING the prospect of Trumps US torturing families), destroys the US economy possibly beyond repair (you can't just go and claim bankruptcy then wipe your hands of it all when you're a country) and takes on 'other' solutions when his plans to keep Mexicans and Muslims out doesn't work.
Such as? Because what you've been pointing to in this post is clearly not the case.
You cant post big paragraphs based on anti Trump propaganda and then expect me to reply to them seriously, "race riots", "torturing muslim families", bombing(as if they are not doing it now) "destroy the US economy". The only people who want race riots are the likes of "Black lives matter" and other hardcore racists.
All of that is nonsense, just smear. You are posting propaganda, should I attack Bernard or Hilldog through their ties to George Soros etc?0 -
JPNelsforearm wrote: »Again, electioneering.
Will this also come with winning lottery tickets for all?Nope, immigration costs more in services then it brings inYes, that is exactly what we can expect from the corporate billionaire!Of which the party is doing its damnedest to get rid of himUtter bull****, donald Trump is an favour of planned parenthood, "the worst republican", complete lie.
http://www.lifenews.com/2016/03/14/attention-donald-trump-killing-330000-babies-outweighs-any-good-planned-parenthood-does
Here you go, from the very same site you linked to: http://www.lifenews.com/2015/10/19/donald-trump-planned-parenthood-should-absolutely-be-de-funded/
Laura Ingraham: Yesterday, Planned Parenthood was exposed again in an eighth video released by the Center for Medical Progress. Do you still believe there are two Planned Parenthoods or is it time to defund this organization?
Donald Trump: Well, you should defund anyway because they are doing the abortions. It is like an abortion factory, which is terrible. So you should defund anyway. But those videos are horrible. Every time you see them, they get worse and worse. And it’s not only that, the messengers are so bad. There always, I mean these people, what they say and the way they, it’s like you are selling parts to an automobile or something. It’s a terrible situation going on with Planned Parenthood. There’s no question about it.
And here we are again -- http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/11/politics/donald-trump-refutes-third-party-run-report/index.html
"The biggest problem I have with Planned Parenthood is the abortion situation. I mean its like an abortion factory, frankly, and you can't have it and you shouldn't be funding it. It shouldn't be funded by the government," Trump said.[/B]What Republican party? the one that has allowed over 11 million illegals into the country that supports amnesty etc, whilst saying the opposite in public?
Well in that case, Trump is going to be an advocate of (or at least lenient towards) illegal immigration within hours of his inauguration.So was Hilary ClintonAgain, massive lie, Trump didnt support Iraq, nor did he support Libya
“Are you for invading Iraq?” Stern asked.
“Yeah, I guess so,” Trump responded. “I wish the first time it was done correctly.”
And now Libya... http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/feb/25/donald-trump/donald-trumps-pants-fire-claim-he-never-discussed-/
"I can’t believe what our country is doing," Trump said, according to a BuzzFeed transcript. "Gaddafi in Libya is killing thousands of people, nobody knows how bad it is, and we’re sitting around we have soldiers all have the Middle East, and we’re not bringing them in to stop this horrible carnage and that’s what it is: It’s a carnage."
Trump continued.
"You talk about things that have happened in history; this could be one of the worst," Trump said. "Now we should go in, we should stop this guy, which would be very easy and very quick. We could do it surgically, stop him from doing it, and save these lives. This is absolutely nuts. We don’t want to get involved and you’re gonna end up with something like you’ve never seen before."ExactlyHow about listen to the religious lunatics themselves, like Glenn Beck etc, they are all voting for Cruz, because they they think Trump is lying lol
But they don't think Trump is lying, they know Trump is lying.
And so do you, you have said as much over and over and over.How so?Victim blaming on a massive scale, typical of the left, that is all ideology you have posted, none of it fact.You cant post big paragraphs based on anti Trump propaganda and then expect me to reply to them seriously,"race riots","torturing muslim families",
Oh, that's right! You consider Muslims to be terrorists! I completely forgot what you are willing to agree with Trump when he says one thing, then agree again when he says the opposite.bombing(as if they are not doing it now)"destroy the US economy".The only people who want race riots are the likes of "Black lives matter" and other hardcore racists.All of that is nonsense, just smear.You are posting propaganda, should I attack Bernard or Hilldog through their ties to George Soros etc?
It shows you know you're wrong and making a bit of a mockery of yourself at this stage, to be honest.0 -
Seems like the last Republican debate has been scrapped. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/latest-kasich-win-dealt-big-blow-trump-376855880
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Hande hoche! wrote: »Seems like the last Republican debate has been scrapped. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/latest-kasich-win-dealt-big-blow-trump-37685588
They are utterly pointless at this stage.0 -
Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,267 CMod ✭✭✭✭Join Date:Posts: 36407
The problem with toning it down is the genie is already out of the bottle for many!
“I think you’d have riots,” Trump said on CNN. … "I think you’d have problems like you’ve never seen before. I think bad things would happen.”
Is Trump threatening the GOP leadership with violence, as well as suggesting to his supporters that "riots" and "bad things" would be appropriate if he is not the Republican 2016 presidential nominee?0 -
Black Swan wrote: »Why would White Supremacist and Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke endorse Donald Trump for president 2016 this past weekend?
Why would White Supremacist and Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke Will Quigg endorse Donald Trump Hillary Clinton for president 2016 this past weekend?Black Swan wrote: »
When interviewed by CNN,
Strange how CNN has not interviewed Clinton on the endorsement nor drawn conclusions based upon Clinton's failure to repudiate the Klan.0 -
One of the lessons can be drawn from his campaign, is that Trump's strategy of effectively manipulating the media on his terms and not engaging with them so as to appear to be dancing to their tune has proved to this point successful. As Black Swan points out, this comes from his playbook in his earlier written works (offhand having read Art of the Deal a while back as wondering why Doonesbury was making such fun of him) .0
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Yesterday, why has "Russian state TV has come out firmly in favour of Donald Trump in his bid to become US president?" Unlike the so often claimed American media bias against Trump (i.e., as manufactured by Trump per his 1987 book to say "outrageous" things to draw media attention), could the Russian media be biased in favour of Trump because of his favourable comments about Putin, who, for all practical purposes is dictator of Russia?
Does anyone see the craic in "establishment" Putin and "establishment" Russian TV endorsing "nonestablishment" Trump?0 -
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Black Swan wrote: »Yesterday, why has "Russian state TV has come out firmly in favour of Donald Trump in his bid to become US president?" Unlike the so often claimed American media bias against Trump (i.e., as manufactured by Trump per his 1987 book to say "outrageous" things to draw media attention), could the Russian media be biased in favour of Trump because of his favourable comments about Putin, who, for all practical purposes is dictator of Russia?
Does anyone see the craic in "establishment" Putin and "establishment" Russian TV endorsing "nonestablishment" Trump?
Anyway, latest advert from Trump
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