2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

JPNelsforearm

Black Swan wrote: »

Trump University litigation, with founder Donald Trump as a defendant, has been plodding along since 2010 in California. If the above statement is a valid legal argument, why has Trump's defending lawyer and his nationally prestigious law firm O’Melveny & Myers NOT FILED a motion asking US District Judge Gonzalo Curiel to step aside, or recuse himself? Simply because this Trump judge-bias argument has no substance in fact in a US court of law, would more than likely be ruled as a "frivolous" legal argument, could have severe and adverse consequences for the Trump University defense, and only represents the repetitious and typical campaign spin so frequently attributed to Trump's proclamations from his political pulpit; whereupon he attempts to smear and discredit the reputation of someone who does not follow his orders, or march to the beat of his drum.

Im not disputing that, Im saying, Trump would be remiss, not to carry on as he has been. The case wont be heard until after the election, why shouldnt he control the news cycle surrounding the case? What he does, legally, is a totally different story.

Akrasia

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Closing the border and deporting illegals is not a racist policy, no matter what the Mexican flag waving thugs who beat up Trump supporters seem to think. A sovereign nation has borders, or it is not a nation.

Lets see what the Man himself has to say on the subject of Mexico

I don’t see how there is any room for misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the statement I made on June 16th during my Presidential announcement speech. Here is what I said, and yet this statement is deliberately distorted by the media:

“When Mexico (meaning the Mexican Government) sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you (pointing to the audience). They’re not sending you (pointing again). They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing drugs.They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people! But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people. It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably from the Middle East. But we don’t know. Because we have no protection and we have no competence, we don’t know what’s happening. And it’s got to stop and it’s got to stop fast.”

What can be simpler or more accurately stated? The Mexican Government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc. This was evident just this week when, as an example, a young woman in San Francisco was viciously killed by a 5 time deported Mexican with a long criminal record, who was forced back into the United States because they didn’t want him in Mexico. This is merely one of thousands of similar incidents throughout the United States. In other words, the worst elements in Mexico are being pushed into the United States by the Mexican
government. The largest suppliers of heroin, cocaine and other illicit drugs are Mexican cartels that arrange to have Mexican immigrants trying to cross the borders and smuggle in the drugs. The Border Patrol knows this. Likewise, tremendous infectious disease is pouring across the border. The United States has become a dumping ground for Mexico and, in fact, for many other parts of the world. On the other hand, many fabulous people come in from Mexico and our country is better for it. But these people are here legally, and are severely hurt by those coming in illegally. I am proud to say that I know many hard working Mexicans—many of them are working for and with me…and, just like our country, my organization is better for it.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-epic-statement-on-mexico-2015-7?r=US&IR=T

Trump's conspiracy theory that the mexican government is deliberately sending rapists, murderers, thieves and 'disease ridden people' into America is as intolerant as any speech Hitler gave about the jews in 1930s Germany

Billy86

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Closing the border and deporting illegals is not a racist policy, no matter what the Mexican flag waving thugs who beat up Trump supporters seem to think. A sovereign nation has borders, or it is not a nation.

Saying you have never met a Mexican who is a good person, is very much racist. By saying "some I assume, are good people" that's exactly what he did.

InTheTrees

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

The case wont be heard until after the election, why shouldnt he control the news cycle surrounding the case?

Because he's handling it really badly.

He's not answering the critics. In fact he's dug himself in deeper by saying a Muslim wouldn't be qualified either. That shows he has no intention of apologizing.

The talk is that he seems to think he can just ignore it (except for the short positive testimonial video he released) and it'll go away.

But he's losing donors and vital high level supporters (the only politician who seems willing to go out and stump for him is chris christie!) and his poll numbers have gone down.

B_Wayne

In terms of going after the Judge via a political campaign, it's both unethical and probably illegal...

B_Wayne

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Seriously.


Do you deny rapists, murderers, thieves and disease ridden people are crossing into the US?

Its an undeniable fact that infectious diseases are on the rise again both in the states and in Europe(look at TB and AIDS rates in Ireland, well over half of all diagnoses every year are foreigners) due to mass/illegal immigration.

Erm, Trump literally objected to vaccinations, his sort of attitudes are far worse in terms of contributing to ignorance and illness. Measles returned in the US, thanks to a failure to vaccinate due to paranoia about science and just bs, Trump gives it a platform consistently....

Murderers,rapists, thieves and even disease ridden people can and are Americans as well. Trump has specifically targeted Mexicans for every problem in America.

We've got serious cases such as the Stanford rape case which highlights that rape and sexual harassment occurs to a huge degree on US campuses, it's not Mexicans doing it... No highlighting of that though, I suspect he's not concerned.

Trump decided to harass a judge over his heritage. Cause he claimed bias, it was bull****. The simple fact is that Trump is trying to deflect from his white collar criminality. This never draws the ire of Trump fans as he's given them somebody to target for racial reasons.

Trump is a character that I will never respect. His apartment blocks included refusing or charging black people more. So he always met the criteria of a racist.

KingBrian2

Speaking of Mexicans on the Southern Border does Clinton intend to legalize drugs I do know Trump is opposed to the war on drugs that has claimed the lives of more Mexicans and Americans than the war of Jihadists.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Donald_Trump_Drugs.htm

Black Swan

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Im not disputing that, Im saying, Trump would be remiss, not to carry on as he has been. The case wont be heard until after the election, why shouldnt he control the news cycle surrounding the case? What he does, legally, is a totally different story.

Are you suggesting that it's OK for Trump to trash the US District Judge's reputation, so long as Trump reaches his objective to get elected president?

B_Wayne wrote: »

In terms of going after the Judge via a political campaign, it's both unethical and probably illegal...

It's my understanding that if you are running for president you can slander and liable anyone you wish without legal consequences (e.g., freedom of speech, etc.), whereas if you were not running for office, you could be charged and tried in civil court.

As for ethical concerns, such considerations don't seem to bother Trump, or for that matter, any of the candidates running for president. In fairness, Bernie Sanders appears to be the most ethical in this campaign, but he has had his lapses too, just not as much as the others.

B_Wayne

Black Swan wrote: »

It's my understanding that if you are running for president you can slander and liable anyone you wish without legal consequences (e.g., freedom of speech, etc.), whereas if you were not running for office, you could be charged and tried in civil court.

As for ethical concerns, such considerations don't seem to bother Trump, or for that matter, any of the candidates running for president. In fairness, Bernie Sanders appears to be the most ethical in this campaign, but he has had his lapses too, just not as much as the others.

Yeah, I was sort of considering this, this morning. I loath Clinton for a lot of reasons including treatment of Lewinsky and other such stuff. But unfortunately she's the best option... But this year definitely seems like the all time low for Presidential elections. Goldwater ends up paling in contrast.....

KingBrian2

B_Wayne wrote: »

Yeah, I was sort of considering this, this morning. I loath Clinton for a lot of reasons including treatment of Lewinsky and other such stuff. But unfortunately she's the best option... But this year definitely seems like the all time low for Presidential elections. Goldwater ends up paling in contrast.....

Really, Clinton that good even though she has a history of deceiving the public. Everything is said about Trump as he has become a magnet for derision whereas Clinton is somehow America's savior in this hour of need. She has not changed her policies, everything remains the same as per husbands term. She is a Centre left candidate that supports bombing Arab countries.

B_Wayne

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Really, Clinton that good even though she has a history of deceiving the public. Everything is said about Trump as he has become a magnet for derision whereas Clinton is somehow America's savior in this hour of need. She has not changed her policies, everything remains the same as per husbands term. She is a Centre left candidate that supports bombing Arab countries.

Trump has no consistent policy and has used it as a platform to divert from his fraud case...

Brian?

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Really, Clinton that good even though she has a history of deceiving the public. Everything is said about Trump as he has become a magnet for derision whereas Clinton is somehow America's savior in this hour of need. She has not changed her policies, everything remains the same as per husbands term. She is a Centre left candidate that supports bombing Arab countries.

You really need to skew the political spectrum by a good margin to describe Clinton as centre Left. She's a right wing, "pro business " politician.

KingBrian2

B_Wayne wrote: »

Trump has no consistent policy and has used it as a platform to divert from his fraud case...

Come off it Trump is running on a platform of tough on America's enemies. His speeches are designed for not only American audiences but also the Chinese, North Koreans, Saudi's, Iranians & Russians and if you can't see that well your biased. Clinton still receives donations form the most corrupt countries in the world. Here we have the first Women Candidate of the Democratic party yet she is okay with Saudi Sheiks. I happen to agree with Trump on a number of issues whereas Clinton is even more pro Corporate than Obama ever was. She voted for the Iraq war and did deals with some of the most right wing Republicans in Congress.

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Speaking of Mexicans on the Southern Border does Clinton intend to legalize drugs I do know Trump is opposed to the war on drugs that has claimed the lives of more Mexicans and Americans than the war of Jihadists.

Its more complicated than that, its a states rights issue.

As regards cannabis legalisation, Clinton will continue Obama's policy of allowing the various states to decide for themselves without federal interference.

Brian?

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Come off it Trump is running on a platform of tough on America's enemies. His speeches are designed for not only American audiences but also the Chinese, North Koreans, Saudi's, Iranians & Russians and if you can't see that well your biased. Clinton still receives donations form the most corrupt countries in the world. Here we have the first Women Candidate of the Democratic party yet she is okay with Saudi Sheiks. I happen to agree with Trump on a number of issues whereas Clinton is even more pro Corporate than Obama ever was. She voted for the Iraq war and did deals with some of the most right wing Republicans in Congress.

You are confusing rhetoric and policy. Trump has no coherent policies.

KingBrian2

Brian? wrote: »

You are confusing rhetoric and policy. Trump has no coherent policies.

It would be great to see policies actually tabled and i do see that Trump has better policies than Clinton.

oscarBravo

Brian? wrote: »

You are confusing rhetoric and policy. Trump has no coherent policies.

He doesn't have a great deal of coherent rhetoric either.

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It would be great to see policies actually tabled and i do see that Trump has better policies than Clinton.

He has policies?

Billy86

Well KingBrian2;97412768, now is your chance to be the official first Trump supporter on boards to talk policy in some detail, so have at it.

That's not meant as sarcasm by the way, because I literally ha e not seen a single Trump fan on boards talking about policy, and I lm not alone in that.

K-9

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Seriously.


Do you deny rapists, murderers, thieves and disease ridden people are crossing into the US?

Its an undeniable fact that infectious diseases are on the rise again both in the states and in Europe(look at TB and AIDS rates in Ireland, well over half of all diagnoses every year are foreigners) due to mass/illegal immigration.

Mod:

Please post back up for the above, and it better be reputable back up.

Black Swan

Trump slogan: "Make America Great Again." If you think that leading the world in GDP and having the most expensive and powerful military today defines "Great," it already has those things without Trump. If being "Great" according to Trump is exemplified by his media-drawing brash, "outrageous," and "sensationalist" words (per his 1987 playbook) during these past campaign months, then the old "Ugly American" expression comes to mind from a diplomatic and international viewpoint as summarized by Paul Thomas of the New Zealand Herald:

"Trump personifies everything the rest of the world despises about America: casual racism, crass materialism, relentless self-aggrandizement, vulgarity on an epic scale. The fact that so many Republicans are comfortable with the thought of this monumentally unqualified man in the Oval Office shows how warped the Party has become."

JPNelsforearm

K-9 wrote: »

Mod:

Please post back up for the above, and it better be reputable back up.

"CDC admitted disease imported as states data reveals illegal immigrant links "

In straightforward defiance against the White House position of non-transparency, previous communication from the Center for Disease Control discovered Tuesday acknowledged that 97 percent of the measles found in United States this year could be attributed to “importations from at least 18 countries.”
http://www.examiner.com/article/cdc-admitted-disease-imported-as-states-data-reveals-illegal-immigrant-links

Immigrants and refugees originating from areas where infections persist can pose a significant challenge for national disease control and or elimination strategies. The factors that support and sustain the prevalence of diseases in the less developed world are beyond the control of national and state/provincial/municipal public health programs at the migrant's ultimate destination. As a consequence, the continued disparities in prevalence levels of infectious diseases in a world of increasing travel and migration makes national disease control or elimination almost impossible. These same factors also increase the epidemiological likelihood that many infections that are now very well controlled in the developed world will be increasingly observed in migrant or foreign-born populations resident in host destinations.

Globally, tuberculosis remains a major infectious disease threat. Tuberculosis was declared a global emergency by the World Health Organization in 1993. Rates of tuberculosis infection in some regions of the world are several orders of magnitude greater than those in the developed world. During this period of time where control was increasingly effective in migrant-receiving nations, immigration movements from areas of the world where tuberculosis remained a major public health challenge increased. As a consequence, in many immigration-receiving nations, the majority of cases of tuberculosis are now observed in the foreign-born population related to importation from high-prevalence source nations to low-prevalence host nations [18, 19].

Similar epidemiological patterns are now being observed in other infections in the developed world. Migration and population mobility are associated with continuing—and in some cases, increasing—levels of diseases..

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/12/1742.full



Emerging and reemerging infectious diseases, many of which are likely to continue to originate overseas, will continue to kill at least 170,000 Americans annually
annual infectious disease deaths have nearly doubled to some 170,000 since 1980 after reaching historic lows that year, while new and existing pathogens, such as HIV and West Nile virus, respectively, continue to enter US borders.
http://fas.org/irp/threat/nie99-17d.htm


43.6% of TB cases in Ireland are foreigners
http://www.stjames.ie/gpshealthcareprofessionals/conferencescourses/tbconference/epidemiologytb.pdf

Page five.53.8% of all HIV cases are foreign born, 60% of all heterosexual aids diagnoses are from countries with an AIDS epidemic(aka not Ireland)
http://www.drugs.ie/resourcesfiles/ResearchDocs/Ireland/2015/HSE_HIV_2014.pdf

Akrasia

%

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

"CDC admitted disease imported as states data reveals illegal immigrant links "

In straightforward defiance against the White House position of non-transparency, previous communication from the Center for Disease Control discovered Tuesday acknowledged that 97 percent of the measles found in United States this year could be attributed to “importations from at least 18 countries.”


http://www.examiner.com/article/cdc-admitted-disease-imported-as-states-data-reveals-illegal-immigrant-links

Measles is covered by the MMR vaccine and in mexico 97% of children are vaccinated against measles. In the U.S. the biggest risk of Measles outbreaks comes from idiot parents refusing to vaccinate their children and not from immigrants.

Immigrants and refugees originating from areas where infections persist can pose a significant challenge for national disease control and or elimination strategies. The factors that support and sustain the prevalence of diseases in the less developed world are beyond the control of national and state/provincial/municipal public health programs at the migrant's ultimate destination. As a consequence, the continued disparities in prevalence levels of infectious diseases in a world of increasing travel and migration makes national disease control or elimination almost impossible. These same factors also increase the epidemiological likelihood that many infections that are now very well controlled in the developed world will be increasingly observed in migrant or foreign-born populations resident in host destinations.

Globally, tuberculosis remains a major infectious disease threat. Tuberculosis was declared a global emergency by the World Health Organization in 1993. Rates of tuberculosis infection in some regions of the world are several orders of magnitude greater than those in the developed world. During this period of time where control was increasingly effective in migrant-receiving nations, immigration movements from areas of the world where tuberculosis remained a major public health challenge increased. As a consequence, in many immigration-receiving nations, the majority of cases of tuberculosis are now observed in the foreign-born population related to importation from high-prevalence source nations to low-prevalence host nations [18, 19].

Again, TB is overed by the BCG vaccine, and in Mexico, 95% of people receive the vaccine at birth. Mexico is not the source of TB in the U.S. Where TB is making a comeback, it is amongst un-vaccinated communities and is a failure of public health promotion and not immigration policy.

Similar epidemiological patterns are now being observed in other infections in the developed world. Migration and population mobility are associated with continuing—and in some cases, increasing—levels of diseases..

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/12/1742.full
[/quote]
Where does it say that Mexican immigrants are disease ridden?

It just says that people moving around the world can transmit infections. Are you suggesting we ban tourism? Will americans travelling to Rio for the Olympics be described as 'disease ridden' because some of them will return with infections?

Emerging and reemerging infectious diseases, many of which are likely to continue to originate overseas, will continue to kill at least 170,000 Americans annually
annual infectious disease deaths have nearly doubled to some 170,000 since 1980 after reaching historic lows that year, while new and existing pathogens, such as HIV and West Nile virus, respectively, continue to enter US borders.
http://fas.org/irp/threat/nie99-17d.htm

Nice alarmist website there

43.6% of TB cases in Ireland are foreigners
http://www.stjames.ie/gpshealthcareprofessionals/conferencescourses/tbconference/epidemiologytb.pdf

43% of a very low number are foreigners. There are 9 cases of TB per 100k in Ireland per year. Its hardly an existential threat, especially considering the fact that 94% of Irish people are vaccinated against TB

Page five.53.8% of all HIV cases are foreign born, 60% of all heterosexual aids diagnoses are from countries with an AIDS epidemic(aka not Ireland)
http://www.drugs.ie/resourcesfiles/ResearchDocs/Ireland/2015/HSE_HIV_2014.pdf

The Aids panic is so 1980s
In the western world Aids is under control. In Africa it is a huge problem but that has nothing to do with mexican immigrants into America being called disease ridden by Donald Trump, the supposedly non racist presidential candidate.

Suryavarman

Black Swan wrote: »

Trump slogan: "Make America Great Again." If you think that leading the world in GDP and having the most expensive and powerful military today defines "Great," it already has those things without Trump. If being "Great" according to Trump is exemplified by his media-drawing brash, "outrageous," and "sensationalist" words (per his 1987 playbook) during these past campaign months, then the old "Ugly American" expression comes to mind from a diplomatic and international viewpoint as summarized by Paul Thomas of the New Zealand Herald:

"Trump personifies everything the rest of the world despises about America: casual racism, crass materialism, relentless self-aggrandizement, vulgarity on an epic scale. The fact that so many Republicans are comfortable with the thought of this monumentally unqualified man in the Oval Office shows how warped the Party has become."

Trump's version of great is a return to an unobtainable nostalgic version of 1950s America. This was a time when the white male ruled the roost. You could leave school in your early to mid teens and go get a job for life in a factory and you made enough money to support a wife and three kids. As this was pre-civil rights and pre-feminism you could crack offensive jokes in the work place or elsewhere and nobody ever called you out on it. None of this is true anymore. This world has been falling apart over the last 40 years. Now you go to college and together with your partner you can afford the necessities in life. If you don't go to college then you're in for a rough ride and then there's a pretty decent chance your wife divorces you eventually. Females, black people, Hispanics and homosexuals are all equals now both before the law and in societies eyes.

Naturally the white working class male is angry about this assault on his way of life and his standard of living. He has found solitude in Donald Trump's insults and easy answers. This is because of an ignorance about why this is all happening. It isn't because society is too soft and takes offence too easily. It isn't because of illegal immigrants and it isn't because of free trade. It's because of progress. The sad reality for these people is that their way of life is dead and isn't coming back despite what Trump promises.

As the economy progresses people need to have greater skills to have a decent standard of living. In the mid-1800s you could become POTUS with only a couple of years of formal education as Abraham Lincoln did. In the late-1800s you could become one of the richest people to ever live even though you left school at 12 as Andrew Carnegie did. Before long this became impossible as you needed have at least an primary school education just to get a job in a factory. Nowadays you need to have a trade or a college degree to get a decent standard of living. Factory workers just aren't productive enough to get wage increases that allow them to keep up with wage increases in other areas of the economy. This means they either have to live with a stagnant standard of living or lose their job.

As this has all happened at a time of increased globalisation free trade has naturally gotten the blame for everything. The factory worker loses his job and sees the company opening a factory in China and blames free trade. He assumes that if there wasn't free trade then he'd still have a job. This is completely wrong. The alternative to a Chinese factory worker making cars isn't an American factory worker building them, it's an American robot. The hard truth is that the working class and manufacturing sector is dying in the first world just like the farming class and agricultural sector died before it. This isn't a bad thing and shouldn't be seen as a bad thing. There's a myth that's often peddled that American wages have been stagnant since the 1970s. This is completely untrue, pretty much every demographic in America has seen their real incomes increase massively in that time, apart from white, working class males.

This isn't to say that the working class should be forgotten about. Although free trade isn't causing the manufacturing sector to decline, it is hastening its demise. Therefore, as economists always argue, free trade needs to be combined with assistance to displaced workers. Retraining needs to be provided that allows displaced workers to upskill. Rust belt cities could be turned into special economic zones with incentives for manufacturers to open up there. Better efforts need to be made to allow working class kids to attend college and get the education they need to succeed in life. This could be done either through increased grants or special efforts to reduce youth unemployment so they can get a job to support themselves through college.

Trump's vision of greatness is ultimately down to ignorance. Both he and his supporters are ignorant of why the economic situation of white, working class males has been deteriorating. The attitudes towards minorities and women that their fathers had and the ones they were raised with are no longer tolerated. At the same time minorities and women have been improving their situation while Trumps supporters get left behind. While Trump might be a racist, sexist pig most of his supporters probably aren't. They just feel emasculated and want their old lives back.

fr336

Billy86

fr336 wrote: »

When was the last time someone won the nomination while being investigated for fraud?

History may have been made twice!

fr336

Billy86 wrote: »

When was the last time someone won the nomination while being investigated for fraud?

History may have been made twice!

Difference is Hillary's fans (I know there are very few..) act as if she's a saint (most of them simply because she's female, it would seem). Btw has she explained why she's not released her speeches to the wealthy yet? Why on earth would she not do such a simple thing?

KingBrian2

Billy86 wrote: »

Well KingBrian2;97412768, now is your chance to be the official first Trump supporter on boards to talk policy in some detail, so have at it.

That's not meant as sarcasm by the way, because I literally ha e not seen a single Trump fan on boards talking about policy, and I lm not alone in that.

It is not my job to stress the pros and cons of the Trump presidential nomination. That is the decision of the American voting public to make. I would just point out that I see merit in much of what Trump has to say.

In other news more terrorist attacks in Damascus today. A Shi'ite religious site was targeted by terrorism. A fine display of sectarianism.

ancapailldorcha

fr336 wrote: »

Please don't just drop pics in this thread.

Black Swan

Protests are being organised in Dublin and Clare in anticipation of a visit by Donald Trump later this month. He is to fly into Shannon 23 June 2016 and visit his Doonbeg golf resort in Co Clare before leaving on 25 June 2016. Enda Kenny remarked in the Dáil: “If Trump’s comments are racist and dangerous, which they are, there is an alternative to vote for.”

Ozymandius2011

Enda said a few days ago (reported on thejournal.ie) that he would have no problem meeting Trump. Is the penny starting to drop that embarrassing violent protests against the possible next President of the US - the major source of FDI to our country - would backfire badly on investment and on efforts to help the undocumented Irish in the US?