2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Refusing to meet Trump would be such a Trump thing to do.

Billy86

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It would be great to see policies actually tabled and i do see that Trump has better policies than Clinton.

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It is not my job to stress the pros and cons of the Trump presidential nomination. That is the decision of the American voting public to make. I would just point out that I see merit in much of what Trump has to say.

No Brian, you said you consider Trump to have better policies than Clinton and said so in this thread, so it is your job to discuss them and how you think they are better -- in this thread. That's the whole thing about debate Brian, when you make a comment you are expected to back it up and not run away hiding when challenged on it.

So please, go ahead and discuss Trump's policies.

Billy86

fr336 wrote: »

Difference is Hillary's fans (I know there are very few..) act as if she's a saint (most of them simply because she's female, it would seem). Btw has she explained why she's not released her speeches to the wealthy yet? Why on earth would she not do such a simple thing?

If you can find me a decent number of people in this thread who consider her a saint, I might give that credence - even in the wider scheme of things, very few seem to consider her as such.

The reason when has not released her speeches is probably similar to the reason Trump has still not released his tax returns.

walshyn93

Billy86 wrote: »

The reason when has not released her speeches is probably similar to the reason Trump has still not released his tax returns.

It's probably the exact same reason, but it's strange to draw that parallel when her speeches were a centerpiece of Sanders' campaign against her, not Trump's.

B_Wayne

walshyn93 wrote: »

Many crossing the border are from Guatemala, Ecuador etc so your evidence is deficient.

These "unvaccinated communities" you refer to are not the tiny minority of concerned suburban moms, they're the large majority of Somalis and other middle eastern groups.

Trump has actively opposed vaccines.......

walshyn93

Brian? wrote: »

You are confusing rhetoric and policy. Trump has no coherent policies.

Hillary's foreign policy proposal:

"As secretary of state, I worked to restore America’s leadership in the world. As president, defending our values and keeping us safe will be my top priority. That includes maintaining a cutting-edge military, strengthening our alliances, cultivating new partners, standing up to aggressors, defeating ISIS, and enforcing the Iran nuclear agreement."


Is that any less vague than Trump's? I won't c&p it because it's about 20 times longer than Clinton's.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-foreign-policy-speech

Hillary's immigration proposal:

"We need comprehensive immigration reform with a path to full and equal citizenship. If Congress won't act, I'll defend President Obama’s executive actions—and I'll go even further to keep families together. I'll end family detention, close private immigrant detention centers, and help more eligible people become naturalized."

Here's Trump's https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

Again, it's too long to copy and paste. The level of detail in Trump's policies compared to Clinton's makes it so that anyone who declares, as you have done, that Trump's policies are too vague or incoherent is exposing themselves as someone who only follows the headlines and the clickbait and hasn't done their own research.

walshyn93

B_Wayne wrote: »

Trump has actively opposed vaccines.......

I'm hoping Newt Gingrich has already talked some sense into him on that.

From To Save America (rev. ed., 2011, pp. 142-143):
But perhaps no anti-scientific argument is more dangerous today than the claim put forward by radical environmentalists, most notably Robert F. Kennedy Jr., that childhood vaccinations can cause autism. Numerous peer-reviewed studies have disproved this connection. Moreover, the Lancet, a prominent British journal that published a 1998 study confirming a vaccination-autism connection, recently retracted the study, whose findings had already been repudiated by ten of its thirteen co-authors.
Yet some parents, worried by these rumors, have stopped vaccinating their children, endangering public health.

Christy42

walshyn93 wrote: »

Hillary's foreign policy proposal:

"As secretary of state, I worked to restore America’s leadership in the world. As president, defending our values and keeping us safe will be my top priority. That includes maintaining a cutting-edge military, strengthening our alliances, cultivating new partners, standing up to aggressors, defeating ISIS, and enforcing the Iran nuclear agreement."


Is that any less vague than Trump's? I won't c&p it because it's about 20 times longer than Clinton's.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-foreign-policy-speech

Hillary's immigration proposal:

"We need comprehensive immigration reform with a path to full and equal citizenship. If Congress won't act, I'll defend President Obama’s executive actions—and I'll go even further to keep families together. I'll end family detention, close private immigrant detention centers, and help more eligible people become naturalized."

Here's Trump's https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

Again, it's too long to copy and paste. The level of detail in Trump's policies compared to Clinton's makes it so that anyone who declares, as you have done, that Trump's policies are too vague or incoherent is exposing themselves as someone who only follows the headlines and the clickbait and hasn't done their own research.

Can't believe I read through that. There is minimal content in both of those links.

As far as I can see the actual policies are:

Build a wall on the Southern border. (How are we still entertaining this as a policy that could happen?).

Deport Illegal Immigrants (eh not the worst in the world)

Try to be nice with China and Russia (errmmm seems to what is happening already)

Spend loads more money on the military (I see no way this ends badly)


Aside from that it is meaningless sentences and giving out about Obama for starting wars and spending too much on the military (curious given he wants to increase spending but howenever).

walshyn93

Akrasia wrote: »

Lets see what the Man himself has to say on the subject of Mexico

Trump's conspiracy theory that the mexican government is deliberately sending rapists, murderers, thieves and 'disease ridden people' into America is as intolerant as any speech Hitler gave about the jews in 1930s Germany

Do you think it is impossible that a government as rotten and corrupt as the Mexican government would neglect to pursue a Mexican criminal they believe has left the country? They can't even afford to pay their police decent wages, what makes you think they have the resources to incarcerate every criminal?

From a Mexican POV it's a win win situation if their criminals voluntarily leave.

It doesn't even have to be a deliberate policy. Simple knowledge of a warrant for your arrest might encourage a Mexican criminal to flee across the border.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the Mexican government has done far worse than what is being suggested here, if it even is being suggested that they're implementing a policy of self-deportation of criminals.

PS: Your dishonest use of parentheses to put words in Trump's mouth, didn't go unnoticed.

walshyn93

Christy42 wrote: »

Can't believe I read through that. There is minimal content in both of those links.

As far as I can see the actual policies are:

Build a wall on the Southern border. (How are we still entertaining this as a policy that could happen?).

Deport Illegal Immigrants (eh not the worst in the world)

Try to be nice with China and Russia (errmmm seems to what is happening already)

Spend loads more money on the military (I see no way this ends badly)


Aside from that it is meaningless sentences and giving out about Obama for starting wars and spending too much on the military (curious given he wants to increase spending but howenever).

I don't care if you don't like his policies. The point is he has policies, probably more than Clinton does, unlike what was being suggested.

Brian?

walshyn93 wrote: »

Christy42 wrote: »

Can't believe I read through that. There is minimal content in both of those links.

As far as I can see the actual policies are:

Build a wall on the Southern border. (How are we still entertaining this as a policy that could happen?).

Deport Illegal Immigrants (eh not the worst in the world)

Try to be nice with China and Russia (errmmm seems to what is happening already)

Spend loads more money on the military (I see no way this ends badly)


Aside from that it is meaningless sentences and giving out about Obama for starting wars and spending too much on the military (curious given he wants to increase spending but howenever).

I don't care if you don't like his policies. The point is he has policies, probably more than Clinton does, unlike what was being suggested.

What are his policies?

walshyn93

Brian? wrote: »

What are his policies?

They're all on his website. You can read them for yourself here. https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions

BoJack Horseman

Brian? wrote: »

What are his policies?

read the link brian

he shares Bernie's distrust of NATO but differs on Bernie's bellicose attitude toward China.

Christy42

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

read the link brian

he shares Bernie's distrust of NATO but differs on Bernie's bellicose attitude toward China.

Less tax (just to everyone)

More guns (odd he mentions here that mental health care should be fixed)

Ditch Obamacare (cos the old way was so much better), reduce barriers to get new drugs into the market (cos who needs all those nasty trials first)

Build a wall (love that this is kept separate to the immigration policy part)

Make relations with China worse (in spite of the other section saying to make them better).

Owe less debt (no particular plan-just owe less debt)

Make relations with all of Asia far far worse (hadn't reached the point where the US should plonk a decent chunk of its military in the South China seas with my last China point). Apparently this would help the U.S.'s bargaining position (via threats of violence?)

Spend more on VA care

Fr Tod Umptious

Mass murder in a Florida nightclub.
50 dead
Suspect also dead.

Identified as Afghan

Police calling it terrorism and ideologically motivated.

Watch Trumps poll number rise while Clinton continues to pander.

Suryavarman

walshyn93 wrote: »

I don't care if you don't like his policies. The point is he has policies, probably more than Clinton does, unlike what was being suggested.

Analysis has shown that his domestic policies would massively increase the Federal budget deficit. I think it's fair to say that his foreign policies would seriously damage the US's reputation and its relationships with other countries.

How do you justify such policies?

Suryavarman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Mass murder in a Florida nightclub.
50 dead
Suspect also dead.

Identified as Afghan

Police calling it terrorism and ideologically motivated.

Watch Trumps poll number rise while Clinton continues to pander.

He was born in America.

BoJack Horseman

Christy42 wrote: »

Make relations with all of Asia far far worse

Sounds subjective.

how would he make things worse compared to Pres Barry.

say wrt Philippines & Thailand.... where relations have cooled.

Fr Tod Umptious

Suryavarman wrote: »

He was born in America.

BBC had originally said he was Afghan, but are now saying Afghan decent.

Still fuel to Trumps fire though.

Christy42

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Sounds subjective.

how would he make things worse compared to Pres Barry.

say wrt Philippines & Thailand.... where relations have cooled.

Imagine you don't like someone you have to deal with regularly.

Now imagine this person holding a gun when you deal with them.

Do you prefer them prefer or after they started waving a gun around. How in the world does parking your military next door to them not make like you less? Why do I even need to argue this?

On another point.
What does Trump propose about cases like this?http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/us/christina-grimmie-singer-on-the-voice-dies-in-shooting-at-concert.html?_r=0

Note only one was killed but only due to a brave man's actions, it could have been much much worse otherwise (and given the varying stance on gun ownership in the US is very relevant to this race). Or should we only concentrate on cases where the shooter has some relation to Islam.

Billy86

Suryavarman wrote: »

Analysis has shown that his domestic policies would massively increase the Federal budget deficit. I think it's fair to say that his foreign policies would seriously damage the US's reputation and its relationships with other countries.

How do you justify such policies?

Hence why the Economist lists him as (ironically enough) as big a threat to the global economy as not just ISIS, but all jihadi terrorism - http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/economist-trump-presidency-global-risk-220887

https://gfs.eiu.com/Archive.aspx?archiveType=globalrisk

Billy86

oscarBravo wrote: »

Florida?

Well with their religious fervency, opposition to same sex marriage, and love of guns...



...I can see he may have mixed them up.

JPNelsforearm

Billy86 wrote: »

Well with their religious fervency, opposition to same sex marriage, and love of guns...



...I can see he may have mixed them up.

muh liberal meme

Suryavarman

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

No, I didnt miss it.


He was imported to the US. His parents are Afghan, his father supports the Taliban, once tried to run for president of Afghanistan, as I have said countless times, place of birth is irrelevant, its background, culture and genetics that matter. This guy obviously(by his actions) does not reflect a Floridian or American mindset, he reflects the hardline Islamic culture that he emanated from. That he enjoys the fat of European civilisation is of no bearing on his origins, he will always be an an Afghani.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/742053354189299712

He was born in the US. Regardless, people aren't imported, goods and services are.

His background doesn't matter unless you are proposing to unconstitutionally strip US born people of their citizenship due to their background.

walshyn93

Suryavarman wrote: »

Analysis has shown that his domestic policies would massively increase the Federal budget deficit. I think it's fair to say that his foreign policies would seriously damage the US's reputation and its relationships with other countries.

How do you justify such policies?

Analysis has shown
Analysis has shown
Analysis has shown

Anyone can use weasel words to make a point.

walshyn93

Billy86 wrote: »

Well with their religious fervency, opposition to same sex marriage, and love of guns...

[IMG]...I can see he may have mixed them up. [/img]

Girl on the left, probably never shot anyone. Girl on the right, notorious terrorist, responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people all over the world.

As you say, they're exactly the same and very smart of you to draw a parallel :rolleyes:

BoJack Horseman

Christy42 wrote: »

Do you prefer them prefer or after they started waving a gun around. How in the world does parking your military next door to them not make like you less? Why do I even need to argue this?.

Not sure what you are getting at Christy....

Again, the question was simple....

How will Pres Trump damage asian relations to a greater extent than Obama?
I used Thailand and the Philippines as examples as relations have certainly cooled there in the Obama years (I might also include Taiwan in that).

johnnyskeleton

Mod Note:

Ok, about 3 pages of stuff about the tragic recent killing, internet memes, Afghanistan etc.

I've deleted over 40 off topic posts. This thread is about the US Presidential Election. As the primaries are done it might be better to start a new thread. However, for the moment we will leave this one open. Any more off topic posts will be dealt with severely.

JPN and Walshy banned for xenophobia and trolling respectively.

Other posters, please don't feed the trolls and report any off topic posts rather than responding in thread.

Suryavarman

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Mod Note:

Ok, about 3 pages of stuff about the tragic recent killing, internet memes, Afghanistan etc.

I've deleted over 40 off topic posts. This thread is about the US Presidential Election. As the primaries are done it might be better to start a new thread. However, for the moment we will leave this one open. Any more off topic posts will be dealt with severely.

JPN and Walshy banned for xenophobia and trolling respectively.

Other posters, please don't feed the trolls and report any off topic posts rather than responding in thread.

Apologies if it isn't appropriate to ask this in thread. Is it okay to discuss yesterday's massacre in the context of the presidential race? As in, could we discuss what candidates are saying about the massacre and how it might affect the campaign? Or is it best just to leave the whole topic behind given how things fared out yesterday evening?

Akrasia

Suryavarman wrote: »

He was born in the US. Regardless, people aren't imported, goods and services are.

His background doesn't matter unless you are proposing to unconstitutionally strip US born people of their citizenship due to their background.

This is one of my fears about Trump

First he says he wants to 'temporarily' stop all muslims from entering the U.S. (including american citizens) 'Until we figure out what's going on'

A position he has re-iterated even today

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/13/us/politics/trump-clinton-sanders-shooting-reaction.html?_r=0

It is a very short leap in logic from there, to internment camps for Muslim people currently residing in the U.S.