2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Black Swan

Whom is the "World Class Liar?" A couple days ago Donald Trump called Hillary Clinton one, when before Trump declared running for the 2016 presidential election he stated (quote): "I know Hillary, and I think she would make a great president or vice president.”

Suryavarman

There's a new Washington Post-ABC poll out:

Nevertheless, in a head-to-head general election matchup, Clinton leads Trump 51 percent to 39 percent among registered voters nationwide, the poll found. This is Clinton’s largest lead in Post-ABC polling since last fall and a dramatic reversal from last month’s survey, which found the nearly even, with Trump at 46 percent and Clinton at 44 percent.

InTheTrees

The final Benghazi report came out today.

This is the eighth republican committee to try and find some evidence that Clinton did something wrong and after two years investigation and despite promises that Clinton was guilty of all kinds of crimes they've come up with nothing at all.

All the garbage Clinton has been accused of adds up to precisely nothing. Just like all the other right wing smear campaigns.

TheDoctor

I assume this will mean its the last we hear of Benghazi

Black Swan

Although national polls are descriptive and not inferential, and caution should be exercised when observing the results of any of them, it is interesting to note that all June 2016 polls by different polling organisations (including Fox News and Rasmussen Reports that have generally favoured Republicans in past presidential elections), show Hillary Clinton leading Trump ranging from 2 to 12 percentage points. Furthermore, I would ignore the RCP Average of Clinton +6.8, as it erroneously averages several different polls with different methodologies, time periods, etc. Given these limitations, let's look at June:

Poll | Taken | Clinton | Trump
ABC | 20-23 June | 51 | 39
NBC/WSJ | 19-23 June | 46 | 41
Rasmussen | 20-21 June | 44 | 39
Reuters | 18-22 June | 44 | 34
Economist | 18-20 June | 43 | 39
CNN/ORC | 16-19 June | 47 | 42
Gravis | 16 June | 51 | 49
Monmouth | 15-19 June | 49 | 41
CNBC | 11-13 June | 40 | 35
Bloomberg | 10-13 June | 49 | 37
CBS News | 9-13 June | 43 | 37
FOX News | 5-8 June | 42 | 39

Akrasia

TheDoctor wrote: »

I assume this will mean its the last we hear of Benghazi

Hopefully, but the noises surrounding the emails are getting louder

The washington post was a strong Hilllary supporter during the primaries and today they published a very scathing article basically calling her a liar and saying she has something to hide

Remember that Clinton said that her main/only reason for using a private email server while at State was "convenience." She didn't want to carry around multiple devices for email, she explained.


But this email to Abedin — which came at the start of her four-year term in office — suggests a bit more active agency than Clinton has previously let on. "I think we need to get on this asap to be sure we know and design the system we want," doesn't strike me as Clinton simply wanting convenience and following the instructions of her IT people on how to make that happen. It reads to me as though Clinton is both far more aware of the email setup and far more engaged in how it should look than she generally lets on publicly.

There's nothing in these emails that changes the basic political dynamic of the email controversy as Clinton seeks to win the White House this fall. Everything still depends on whether the Justice Department decides to indict Clinton or those close to her for purposely keeping information that the public had a right to know away from them. We've been waiting on the results of that FBI investigation for months now and, in truth, no one really knows when they will finally come.

But revelations like Monday's — a chunk of previously undisclosed emails that are clearly professional in nature — lend further doubt to the story Clinton had told about why she set up a private server and how she handled it after leaving office. For a candidate already struggling to convince voters she is honest and trustworthy enough to be president, stories like this one are deeply problematic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/28/hillary-clintons-email-story-continues-to-get-harder-and-harder-to-believe/

InTheTrees

There's growing curiosity about why Trump hasnt made any response to the supreme courts landmark decision on abortion two days ago.

Especially after he spent last week courting the evangelical christian vote.

At some point he's going to have to commit to a position.

Brian?

InTheTrees wrote: »

There's growing curiosity about why Trump hasnt made any response to the supreme courts landmark decision on abortion two days ago.

Especially after he spent last week courting the evangelical christian vote.

At some point he's going to have to commit to a position.

Hasn't he been consistently pro choice? He supports Roe v Wade remaining, doesn't he? If he changes now hes a goner.

Even the darling of the Evangelicals, GW Bush, supported Rowe v Wade.

InTheTrees

Brian? wrote: »

Hasn't he been consistently pro choice? He supports Roe v Wade remaining, doesn't he? If he changes now hes a goner.

Even the darling of the Evangelicals, GW Bush, supported Rowe v Wade.

The Republican Party is committed to having Roe Vs Wade over turned, so Trump is going to have to accept that presumably.

A Republican party candidate for president who is pro-choice would be interesting.

George W was very anti-abortion, much more than his father.

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

The final Benghazi report came out today.

This is the eighth republican committee to try and find some evidence that Clinton did something wrong and after two years investigation and despite promises that Clinton was guilty of all kinds of crimes they've come up with nothing at all.

All the garbage Clinton has been accused of adds up to precisely nothing. Just like all the other right wing smear campaigns.

What the Benghazi report says:

The Obama/Clinton policy in Libya was a disaster but for political purposes warnings were ignored and political ends were prioritized over security needs in the months leading up to the September 11 attacks.

During the attacks American lives could have been saved by the swift deployment of military assets, but political desires created a bureaucratic paralysis preventing key decisions from being made.

In the aftermath of the deadly terrorist attacks, the Obama/Clinton teams chose politics and deception rather than tell the American people the truth.

Our illustrious media is begrudgingly having to report the facts of the report... And there it stops.

If the main characters of the Benghazi event were republicans, the media elite would have a much different attitude on the findings. I think there is little doubt they would use the finding to accuse a republican of: 1) The republican displays poor judgement qualities by failing to realize the risks posed to the Benghazi mission by extremist groups based on intelligence that was available suggesting an attack was probable. 2) That the republican is unqualified to be Commander In Chief because at a critical time when military support was available, ready and could have interceded, they spent their time debating what our military assets should be wearing, thus leaving our people to burn and perish. 3) The republican needs to withdraw from speaking the office of President because they chose politics and deception rather than tell the people the truth of what happened because an election was only 50 some days away.

But it involved favored democrats of the media, so NOTHING TO SEE HERE, PLEASE MOVE ALONG.

This is probably the end to investigations on Benghazi, true, but there is also little doubt Donald Trump will use it to tell the people the truth about Hillary’s poor judgement, political priorities over safety, and continued deceit in the matter with the media serving as her comrade in crime.

And with the populist uprising we are seeing in the US and Europe this year, I believe it will resonate with the electorate, regardless of what our geniuses in media mistakenly believes. They were wrong on Trump winning the GOP race, they were wrong on the Brexit, and I think they will be wrong on this.

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

What the Benghazi report says:

Do you have a link to that quote from the Report?

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

Although national polls are descriptive and not inferential, and caution should be exercised when observing the results of any of them, it is interesting to note that all June 2016 polls by different polling organisations (including Fox News and Rasmussen Reports that have generally favoured Republicans in past presidential elections), show Hillary Clinton leading Trump ranging from 2 to 12 percentage points. Furthermore, I would ignore the RCP Average of Clinton +6.8, as it erroneously averages several different polls with different methodologies, time periods, etc. Given these limitations, let's look at June:

Poll | Taken | Clinton | Trump
ABC | 20-23 June | 51 | 39
NBC/WSJ | 19-23 June | 46 | 41
Rasmussen | 20-21 June | 44 | 39
Reuters | 18-22 June | 44 | 34
Economist | 18-20 June | 43 | 39
CNN/ORC | 16-19 June | 47 | 42
Gravis | 16 June | 51 | 49
Monmouth | 15-19 June | 49 | 41
CNBC | 11-13 June | 40 | 35
Bloomberg | 10-13 June | 49 | 37
CBS News | 9-13 June | 43 | 37
FOX News | 5-8 June | 42 | 39

You’re offering caution on polls again, eh? I’m so confused. :)

Yes, Trump had a bad June. He wasted a month in restructuring his staff, retooling the campaign, and changing tactics for a general election. But changes are in the wind. Below is a transcript of the jobs plan speech he gave this week. And if he continues on this path in the campaign it will resonate well with the US electorate and improve his poll numbers and chances against Clinton immensely, IMO.

Donald Trump's jobs plan speech:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/full-transcript-trump-job-plan-speech-224891

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

Do you have a link to that quote from the Report?

Of course I do.

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/28/benghazi-report-details-obamaclinton-failures-before-during-and-after-deadly-attacks/

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

Of course I do.

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/28/benghazi-report-details-obamaclinton-failures-before-during-and-after-deadly-attacks/

"hotair.com"? Okay...

Its a hysterical right wing conspiracy story about the report.

Save

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

"hotair.com"? Okay...

Its a hysterical right wing conspiracy story about the report.

Save

Ah yes, the coveted Ad Hominem attack. Standard fare from the left. Hate to tell you this, but it gets rather old.

So... what in the article is WRONG?

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

Ah yes, the coveted Ad Hominem attack. Standard fare from the left. Hate to tell you this, but it gets rather old.

But you posted an unattributed quote saying "this is what the report says".

It actually doesnt say those things does it? That's an article from "hotair.com"?

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

But you posted an unattributed quote saying "this is what the report says".

It actually doesnt say those things does it? That's an article from "hotair.com"?

Well. it you want to be pedantic, the report doesn’t actually ‘say’ anything, as it is just a written report and incapable of speaking. But to anyone with commons sense that reads it, that’s what it says in totality to us.

TheDoctor

Can we have a paragraph lifted directly from the report that confirms your above comments?

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

Well. it you want to be pedantic, the report doesn’t actually ‘say’ anything, as it is just a written report and incapable of speaking. But to anyone with commons sense that reads it, that’s what it says in totality to us.

You're saying quoting an editorial about a report is the same as quoting the report itself?

Amerika

TheDoctor wrote: »

Can we have a paragraph lifted directly from the report that confirms your above comments?

http://benghazi.house.gov/NewInfo

Senior officials in Washington D.C. did not heed intelligence detailing
the rise of extremists groups in Benghazi and eastern Libya prior
to September 11, 2012.

- - - - - - -
It is just too long to quote it all. Read the section of the report to confirm. (This section also confirms the rest)

II: INTERNAL AND PUBLIC GOVERNMENT COMMUNICATIONS ABOUT THE TERRORIST ATTACKS IN BENGHAZI.

- - - - -

“Two of our officers were killed in Benghazi by an Al Queda-like [sic]
group” - The Secretary of State to her daughter, September 11, 20121

“We know that the attack in Libya had nothing to do with the film. It was
a planned attack—not a protest” - Summary of a statement by the Secretary of State
to the Egyptian Prime Minister, September 12, 20122

“To underscore that these protests are rooted in an Internet video, and
not a broader failure of policy” - Benjamin J. Rhodes, defining one of the goals of
Ambassador Susan E. Rice’s appearances on the Sunday news programs following
the Benghazi attacks, September 14, 20123

"I gave Hillary a hug and shook her hand, and she said we are going to
have the filmmaker arrested who was responsible for the death of my
son." - Diary entry of Charles Woods, father of Tyrone Woods, September
14, 20124

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

You're saying quoting an editorial about a report is the same as quoting the report itself?

It is common to state “it says” when summarizing something. But kudos to your attempt to deflect from the facts.

Again... what in the article is WRONG?

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

Donald Trump's jobs plan speech:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/full-transcript-trump-job-plan-speech-224891

From Trump's speech: "Our politicians have aggressively pursued a policy of globalization - moving our jobs, our wealth and our factories to Mexico and overseas. Globalization has made the financial elite who donate to politicians very wealthy."

It seems that the American political memory is too often selective, only hearing what they want to hear, but perhaps a reminder is needed about how Donald Trump was born and raised as a member of the "financial elite," has profited, and continues to profit and build his own personal wealth from globalisation? What's the Lakota Sioux expression that can now be applied to Donald Trump: "He speaks with forked tongue!" Trump condemns globalisation while at the same time profiting from it. Reminder:

Black Swan wrote: »

You don't find it inconsistent when Donald Trump talks about how globalisation takes jobs away from American workers, while Trump himself imports clothing and accessories for the "Trump Collection" made in Mexico and China thereby taking advantage of the reduced labour costs found in the global marketplace? What about Trump's heavy overseas investments in hotels, golf courses, and other businesses? According to Mark J. Perry, a professor of economics and finance at the University of Michigan-Flint: “For Trump to operate, outsource and invest globally while criticizing companies like Ford for doing the same is the ultimate hypocrisy."

Harvard professor and trade expert Robert Lawrence analyzed over 800 items in the Ivanka Trump fashion line. There are shoes, dresses, purses and scarves. All are "imported." Apparently the future presidential daughter, who campaigns for her father Donald Trump, has no problems with profiting from globalisation.

Brian?

InTheTrees wrote: »

The Republican Party is committed to having Roe Vs Wade over turned, so Trump is going to have to accept that presumably.

A Republican party candidate for president who is pro-choice would be interesting.

George W was very anti-abortion, much more than his father.

GWB was opposed to abortion but his political stance was that Rowe v Wade should stand and he never actively opposed it. I am fairly sure or this but open to correction.


Edit: his positions are outlined here. He's pro life by and large but didn't favour an outright ban on abortions like some.

http://www.issues2000.org/George_W__Bush_Abortion.htm

Quin_Dub

Amerika wrote: »

Well. it you want to be pedantic, the report doesn’t actually ‘say’ anything, as it is just a written report and incapable of speaking. But to anyone with commons sense that reads it, that’s what it says in totality to us.

Amerika wrote: »

It is common to state “it says” when summarizing something. But kudos to your attempt to deflect from the facts.

Again... what in the article is WRONG?

The exact full quote is.

The official, full report will be released a little later today, but based on these initial excerpts the summary of the entire Benghazi affair is as follows:

The Obama/Clinton policy in Libya was a disaster but for political purposes warnings were ignored and political ends were prioritized over security needs in the months leading up to the September 11 attacks.

During the attacks American lives could have been saved by the swift deployment of military assets, but political desires created a bureaucratic paralysis preventing key decisions from being made.

In the aftermath of the deadly terrorist attacks, the Obama/Clinton teams chose politics and deception rather than tell the American people the truth.

So , it's not a quote from the report, it's that sites "summary" of the report..

And looking at some their other articles , I'd question their editorial nuetrality..

This is an article of theirs about the Muslim kid that brought the clock to school..

So, on balance I think we should wait for the report...

TheDoctor

A reasonable request in the circumstances.

It appears Drumpf has taken the as expected nose dive in the polls.

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

From Trump's speech: "Our politicians have aggressively pursued a policy of globalization - moving our jobs, our wealth and our factories to Mexico and overseas. Globalization has made the financial elite who donate to politicians very wealthy."

It seems that the American political memory is too often selective, only hearing what they want to hear, but perhaps a reminder is needed about how Donald Trump was born and raised as a member of the "financial elite," has profited, and continues to profit and build his own personal wealth from globalisation? What's the Lakota Sioux expression that can now be applied to Donald Trump: "He speaks with forked tongue!" Trump condemns globalisation while at the same time profiting from it. Reminder:

Not so fast Ke-mo sah-bee.

I was watching MSNBC this morning and they showed some of Trump’s speech from yesterday. In it (and I’ll have to paraphrase this from memory) he said (in regards to the people who’s actions have hurt the workers of our country), ‘I’m ashamed to say I was one of those people.’

Oh yeah, the Quinnipiac Poll from 6/21 to 6/27 has Clinton at 42.0 and Trump at 40.0. Hmmm..... not so vast a difference. (Warning Will Robinson? )
[ edit: Quinnipiac University recruited my one daughter and offered her a full scholarship based on her statistical testing scores in the math sections of the SAT and ACT, primarily for the benefit of their public opinion polling center. We did some research on the college and discovered they go to great lengths to make their polls accurate and non-partisan. ]

Amerika

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The exact full quote is.



So , it's not a quote from the report, it's that sites "summary" of the report..

And looking at some their other articles , I'd question their editorial nuetrality..

This is an article of theirs about the Muslim kid that brought the clock to school..

So, on balance I think we should wait for the report...

I posted the full report above (#7761). It's 800 pages.

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

I was watching MSNBC this morning and they showed some of Trump’s speech from yesterday. In it (and I’ll have to paraphrase this from memory) he said (in regards to the people who’s actions have hurt the workers of our country), ‘I’m ashamed to say I was one of those people.’

Trump's so-called apology is so elitist. During his jobs speech did Trump announce that he was withdrawing all his massive globalisation investments and continued purchases from lower cost and less regulated foreign labour markets? No! Typical Trump: Don't do as I do, do as I say!

Its dead Jim

With any luck Trump will hire Carly. She has been good at destroying what she touches.

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

Trump's so-called apology is so elitist. During his jobs speech did Trump announce that he was withdrawing all his massive globalisation investments and continued purchases from lower cost and less regulated foreign labour markets? No! Typical Trump: Don't do as I do, do as I say!

Didn't get to see the whole speech, so don't rightly know. But I'm guessing he didn't pull a Hillary Clinton and lie about his investments.