2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The Serbian crisis is an excellent example. We hear countless times how NATO has kept Europe safe well it caused chaos in the West Balkans and a Chinese Embassy was even bombed. These events further the cause of war they do not prevent war. Trump is not convinced of the benefits of NATO. Lets look at Africa a continent a wash with violence.

The balkan war was ended by intervention.

It had been going on for eight years before nato stepped in.

You supported the serbs?? Ethic cleansing, concentration camps and massacres?

KingBrian2

InTheTrees wrote: »

The balkan war was ended by intervention.

It had been going on for eight years before nato stepped in.

You supported the serbs?? Ethic cleansing, concentration camps and massacres?

It was the Dayton Agreement that ended the conflict and it was an internal Yugoslav issue but became internationalized to further Washington's interests.

Black Swan

Conas wrote: »

Well I think her track record as Secretary of state speaks for itself.

Hillary Clinton served as US Secretary of State under President Barack Obama from 2009 to 2013. During the 2012 presidential election Donald Trump praised Hillary Clinton for her work as Secretary of State:

After declining to enter the presidential race in 2012, Trump told Fox News' Greta Van Susteren that Clinton had done a great job as secretary of state.

"Hillary Clinton I think is a terrific woman," he said. "I am biased because I have known her for years. I live in New York. She lives in New York. I really like her and her husband both a lot. I think she really works hard. And I think, again, she's given an agenda, it is not all of her, but I think she really works hard and I think she does a good job. I like her."

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It was the Dayton Agreement that ended the conflict and it was an internal Yugoslav issue but became internationalized to further Washington's interests.

Perhaps you're too young to remember, there was no Yugoslavia once the war began. Yugoslavia was a communist country under Marshall Tito. He held the place together in an uneasy federation. It was the most open of the eastern block countries. (It didnt stop them refusing me entry as a backpacker in the 80's though).

After he died the country split into its constituent republics and Serbia decided to invade its neighbours and massacre their muslim populations. It was a full on war.

The term "Ethnic Cleansing" began during the Balkan conflict. I believe the serbs were also responsible for the Rape centres were Muslim women were held to be used by serb troops.

After various sieges and atrocities NATO had to step in.

Dayton is a city in Ohio in the USA where the serbs signed their surrender. Many of the serbian leadership ended up at the International Court in the Hague.

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

How many invasions have the Clintons got involved in? They have fought pointless wars. ... Crimean separation from Ukraine ...

Okay. So Ukraine, an independent sovereign country, wants better relations and possible membership of the EU.

Russia doesnt want them to because it would reduce Russia's influence in the region because Ukraine was once part of the soviet bloc.

So Russia invades Ukraine and seizes Crimea. (You call it a "separation"?)

I'm curious... how are you spinning this to blame "the Clintons"?

InTheTrees

Big news today is that Florida and New Jersey have gone from Red to leaning Blue.

Florida has widely hated republican Governor called Scott who wont be helping matters. He's been removing environmental protections as fast as he can.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/02/484477038/thick-putrid-algae-bloom-overwhelms-miles-of-florida-coastline

Igotadose

InTheTrees wrote: »

Big news today is that Florida and New Jersey have gone from Red to leaning Blue.

Florida has widely hated republican Governor called Scott who wont be helping matters. He's been removing environmental protections as fast as he can.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/02/484477038/thick-putrid-algae-bloom-overwhelms-miles-of-florida-coastline

NJ was a blue state? Since when? And Florida is right-wing to a fare thee well, but voted Obama in 2008 and 2012.

Lived 1/2 my life in NJ. It's not a red state, it's had loser Republican and Democratic governors in the past and present, but that's about they only argument you can make that it's a blue state. Tom Kean was a good governor and hard to tell apart from his Democratic rivals.

K-9

Igotadose wrote: »

NJ was a blue state? Since when? And Florida is right-wing to a fare thee well, but voted Obama in 2008 and 2012.

Lived 1/2 my life in NJ. It's not a red state, it's had loser Republican and Democratic governors in the past and present, but that's about they only argument you can make that it's a blue state. Tom Kean was a good governor and hard to tell apart from his Democratic rivals.

Well yes, but it's a fresh race, either candidate will need them this time. Losing both swing states would make it difficult if not impossible to win the election.

Igotadose

K-9 wrote: »

Well yes, but it's a fresh race, either candidate will need them this time. Losing both swing states would make it difficult if not impossible to win the election.

Aha I missed that bit. Of course, HRC will need both to win. She's likely to get both.

I was confused by the 'going from red to blue' in the original post. Perhaps in some polls this was true in NJ but certainly not historically true.

InTheTrees

Igotadose wrote: »

Aha I missed that bit. Of course, HRC will need both to win. She's likely to get both.

I was confused by the 'going from red to blue' in the original post. Perhaps in some polls this was true in NJ but certainly not historically true.

Right. I'm talking about current polling thats all. Electoral college delegates.

RobertKK

Brian? wrote: »

You're accusing the Clintons of murder?

I don't know so can't accuse, But there is a long list of people who were close to Clintons who died, some mysteriously.
Seems the Clintons make people suicidal...

Billy86

I'm sure Trump knew a lot of people who had died too, including under mysterious circumstances - it's not as if he is unfamiliar with the NY mafia either. When you live past 70 and are an extremely prominent figure with a huge network of people across many walks of life, that tends to happen... people die.

But note how those who would prefer Clinton in office are not grouping together to claim Trump had them all killed. Because that would be f***ing ridiculous and would absolutely reek of last-ditch desperation of someone you've been trying to pin something, anything, on for decades without much of any success.

RobertKK

InTheTrees wrote: »

They've been at that since Bill Clinton appointed Hillary to take charge of healthcare reform in the 90's. Republicans do not like healthcare reform, it tends to benefit the less well off.

SO they've been piling on the rumour's and false accusations ever since. Nothing ever comes of it. The impeachment of bill clinton was a failure, just like the eight benghazi committees.

Hillary Clinton at a town hall meeting was questioned by a woman who said under Obamacare she can no longer afford healthcare.
Hillary accepted that Obamacare needed changing to make it affordable.

The problem for Hillary Clinton is the latest poll shows 58% of Americans believe she is corrupt.

Billy86

RobertKK wrote: »

Hillary Clinton at a town hall meeting was questioned by a woman who said under Obamacare she can no longer afford healthcare.
Hillary accepted that Obamacare needed changing to make it affordable.

The problem for Hillary Clinton is the latest poll shows 58% of Americans believe she is corrupt.

Probably good for her that she is running against possibly the least honest politician to ever make a half decent run for President, so.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

The irony with Obamacare is, he wanted a good deal more. What they compromised on was reportedly very, very similar to Newt Gingrich & the GOPs 1993 proposal... so of course the GOP hated it with a passion. Because this is how screwed the American two-party system is.


EDIT TO ADD: That wouldn't happen to be a FOX News poll you are citing, would it? Any idea what their numbers were for Trump?

Billy86

In other news, Trump apparently put up a Tweeted image of Hillary Clinton, the background filled with dollar bills, and a Star of David with the text inside of 'Most Corrupt Candidate Ever'.

And his fans wonder where the Hitler comparisons come from...

RobertKK

Billy86 wrote: »

I'm sure Trump knew a lot of people who had died too, including under mysterious circumstances - it's not as if he is unfamiliar with the NY mafia either. When you live past 70 and are an extremely prominent figure with a huge network of people across many walks of life, that tends to happen... people die.

But note how those who would prefer Clinton in office are not grouping together to claim Trump had them all killed. Because that would be f***ing ridiculous and would absolutely reek of last-ditch desperation of someone you've been trying to pin something, anything, on for decades without much of any success.

Just read about all these deaths:
deaths by barbell crushing a throat, jumping out of windows, using two guns to kill yourself, beaten to death, drive by shooting, food poisoning, drowned, car crashes, motorbike accident, bicycle accident, numerous plane crashes/explosions..

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.php#axzz4DMznvMPW

The Clintons must bring a lot of bad luck to people who get close and can expose them...

KingBrian2

InTheTrees wrote: »

Perhaps you're too young to remember, there was no Yugoslavia once the war began. Yugoslavia was a communist country under Marshall Tito. He held the place together in an uneasy federation. It was the most open of the eastern block countries. (It didnt stop them refusing me entry as a backpacker in the 80's though).

After he died the country split into its constituent republics and Serbia decided to invade its neighbours and massacre their muslim populations. It was a full on war.

The term "Ethnic Cleansing" began during the Balkan conflict. I believe the serbs were also responsible for the Rape centres were Muslim women were held to be used by serb troops.

After various sieges and atrocities NATO had to step in.

Dayton is a city in Ohio in the USA where the serbs signed their surrender. Many of the serbian leadership ended up at the International Court in the Hague.

I am familiar with the conflict. What I am saying is that her supporters are claiming that Clinton has been a good diplomat around the world but in many parts of world this is not true. Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Iraq and Ukraine the Clinton family did not prevent wars.

It is true that in many conflicts the US were mere spectators however the Clintons decisions had dire consequences. As secretary of state she should have requested the assistance of Russia sooner in the Muslim World and we hear nothing about improving relations with Latin America. Her role as a international mediator is suspect. Under the Clinton administration US soldiers had impunity around the world.

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I am familiar with the conflict. What I am saying is that her supporters are claiming that Clinton has been a good diplomat around the world but in many parts of world this is not true. Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Iraq and Ukraine the Clinton family did not prevent wars.

You dont seem to be familiar with it because you're just repeating yourself.

Explain how the "Clinton family" could have done better in yugoslavia?

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

we hear nothing about improving relations with Latin America.

Wow really? Maybe you missed the Obama administration normalizing relations with Cuba? One of the biggest changes in american/latin american foreign relations in fifty years.

What else do you want to hear from Latin America? We just had the Copa America competition here. Brazil's a bit of mess right now.

Venezuala is imploding slowly. Mexico has a drug war.

Relations arent particularly strained with any latin countries. What other issues are there?

KingBrian2

InTheTrees wrote: »

You dont seem to be familiar with it because you're just repeating yourself.

Explain how the "Clinton family" could have done better in yugoslavia?

You fail to comprehend. Clinton backs the notion that NATO has been a peacemaker. I have told you that today Yugoslavia had a horrible war and Serbia is an ally of Russia today. Clearly the Clintons are part of the same group of people that don't mind repeating the mistakes of the past. And to make matters worse they recognized Kosovo as an independent state. What is done is done but if Washington believes filling the UN with seats of friendly nations will make the world a safer place they are clueless.

KingBrian2

InTheTrees wrote: »

Wow really? Maybe you missed the Obama administration normalizing relations with Cuba? One of the biggest changes in american/latin american foreign relations in fifty years.

What else do you want to hear from Latin America? We just had the Copa America competition here. Brazil's a bit of mess right now.

Venezuala is imploding slowly. Mexico has a drug war.

Relations arent particularly strained with any latin countries. What other issues are there?

One topic at a time, i'll get to Latin America when the time is right. I could write a short story on that part of the world.

Black Swan

RobertKK wrote: »

The Clintons must bring a lot of bad luck to people who get close and can expose them...

In reply, who said a picture was worth a thousand words?

EDIT: It should be noted that Donald Trump socialised quite a bit with both Hillary and Bill Clinton over the years, and claimed to like and be friends with them. He praised Hillary and Bill for their work as Secretary of State and President, donated to the Clinton Foundation ($100,000 USD plus), all before the 2016 campaign. In this picture Donald Trump had invited the Clinton's to attend his 3rd wedding, and the smiles on all their faces seem to be genuine, making me contemplate how ridiculous the American political system and its campaign races transform folks from friends to enemies overnight.



Trump (quote): "I know Hillary and I think she’d make a great president or vice-president.”

Brian?

RobertKK wrote: »

I don't know so can't accuse, But there is a long list of people who were close to Clintons who died, some mysteriously.
Seems the Clintons make people suicidal...

You said the Clintons "literally get away with murder". So yes, you are accusing them of murder. This is conspiracy theory nonsense at best.

Black Swan

Donald Trump tweeted an anti-Clinton meme Saturday that also appeared several days earlier on a white supremacist Internet message board, this one having a Star of David with negative overtones. "Trump has been criticized in the past for repeatedly re-tweeting posts from white supremacists' accounts." Does this make you wonder why Donald Trump may be reading white supremacist message boards, or why he would repeat a meme featured by them?

PopePalpatine

I wouldn't be surprised if his campaign team features a neckbearded 4channer to wade through the bowels of white supremacist message boards.

Hande hoche!

Probably someone on his social media team, no thinking too bright. Happened before with his account having an image with some SS re-enactors.

Conas

Billy86 wrote: »

In other news, Trump apparently put up a Tweeted image of Hillary Clinton, the background filled with dollar bills, and a Star of David with the text inside of 'Most Corrupt Candidate Ever'.

And his fans wonder where the Hitler comparisons come from...

It was a red star that he posted. The Star of David is a blue hexagram. People making something out of nothing as usual.

Suryavarman

Conas wrote: »

It was a red star that he posted. The Star of David is a blue hexagram. People making something out of nothing as usual.

A red star that just happened to be 6 pointed like a Star of David. It probably wouldn't be noteworthy if it wasn't for the anti-Semitic sentiments that are far too common among his supporters.

Conas

Suryavarman wrote: »

A red star that just happened to be 6 pointed like a Star of David. It probably wouldn't be noteworthy if it wasn't for the anti-Semitic sentiments that are far too common among his supporters.

All stars are six pointed. The star of David is a blue hexagram, the star he posted is a red shaped one. I've looked at both, and I see no comparison whatsoever.

Suryavarman

Conas wrote: »

All stars are six pointed. The star of David is a blue hexagram, the star he posted is a red shaped one. I've looked at both, and I see no comparison whatsoever.

Apart from the five pointed stars which are far more common.