2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

KingBrian2

Billy86 wrote: »

So when you were referring to 'Al Qaeda like organizations' you actually meant the mujahideen (that being Islamic for those engaged in jihad)? Ok, fair enough...


And when you said Mujahideen you actually meant the literal Iraq army? Notice how the work Mujahideen does not show up one single time in this article?


And when you are blaming for Obama for the failings of the Iraq Army/Mujahideen/Al Qaeda/whatever it is that you're talking about, you seem like you want to give a free pass to BushCo who were the guys that set them up and trained them? Badly, as it turns out.



Or are you trying to claim that despite killing less people but more actual leaders/figureheads/etc, Obama is unpopular for not taking some Iraqi army officials to court?

It was under Obama that the terror rate has increased in Iraq and Syria due to his administrations backing of extremists.

Billy86

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It was under Obama that the terror rate has increased in Iraq and Syria due to his administrations backing of extremists.

And now the Iraqi army are extremists? Or would you like to actually expand on that a little?

We're done here otherwise Brian, clearly you have thought this out as much as you thought out how 'a complete and utter shutdown on all Muslims entering the US' was a good example 'religious tolerance'.

Black Swan

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It was under Obama that the terror rate has increased in Iraq and Syria due to his administrations backing of extremists.

The 2 longest wars in US history, along with the Great Recession had been handed to Obama by the GW Bush administration, which would have been very difficult for any president to manage, no matter what party they represented.

Today's Iraq had been destabilised by GW Bush's 2nd Persian Gulf War, whereupon he removed the Saddam Hussein regime by Shock & Awe, with no real plans on what to do after its collapse, other than award former CEO Dick Chaney's Halliburton corporation the (no-bid) billions USDs contract to rebuild from the war mess. Political chaos followed, and continues today.

As to the "backing of extremists," you might want to compare the Obama administration with the origins of today's al Qaeda and related terrorist problems by going back to (Republican) president Ronald Reagan's 8 years Cold War arms race, when the CIA was directed by the Reagan administration to run a "Ghost War" against the Soviets in Afghanistan, spending millions of USDs to train and militarily equip the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan, which contributed to the rise of Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda (see Pulitzer prize-winning journalist Steve Coll, author of Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001).

If Hillary Clinton is elected 8 November, I see her continuing with Obama's policies that have been terribly ineffective against Middle Eastern sponsored terrorism, but it's doubtful she will start a new war. If Donald Trump is elected, I would expect that there will be a continuation of the Ronald Reagan terrorism policies that occurred in Afghanistan and Nicaragua, with another Middle Eastern war (probably oil rich Iran) a year or so before his 2nd term reelection campaign, as historically speaking, war-time presidents were normally reelected, and like GW Bush, Donald Trump will do anything to get reelected (i.e., Trump only cares about Trump).

Black Swan

On Day 1 of the Republican National Convention in Columbus Ohio, Donald Trump's wife Melania Trump gave her convention address. Did Melania plagiarize passages from Michelle Obama's DNC 2008 speech, almost word-for-word? Did Melania "steal and pass-off the ideas and words" of Michelle as her own?

Before giving her speech, and after 1st landing at the Columbus airport both Donald and Melania Trump had been interviewed on the Trump plane by NBC's Matt Lauer, who asked Melania regarding her forthcoming speech:

Lauer: "Did you practice on the plane?"

Melania: "I read once over it, because I wrote it and with a little help as possible."

The speech Melania claimed "I wrote it" contained word-for-word passages taken from the speech given by Michelle Obama at the 2008 Democratic National Convention. Had she given Michelle credit, there would not have been plagiarism, but not giving credit and claiming "I wrote it" complies with the definition of plagiarism.

This is not the first time that someone closely associated with Donald Trump has been accused of plagiarism. Trump Institute (not to be confused with currently alleged "fraud, racketeering, and corruption" charged Trump University), but yet another Trump-named enterprise, had been accused of plagiarizing 20 pages from Success magazine's article "Real Estate Mastery System." Trump Institute's educational materials claimed these 20 pages were Donald Trump's "The Billionaire's Road Map to Success."

ECO_Mental

This is really amateur hour stuff I mean if you are going to copy a speach do it from an obscure rally is some forsaken town hall, not from one of the most memorable speeches that a potential first lady ever made at a DNC presidential conference watched by millions....

This is a comedy show

On another note yesterday Trumps campaign manger said that they would benefit from any riots that should happen during the conference ? It's like that they want riots so trump can look tough. Sad

Black Swan

ECO_Mental wrote: »

This is really amateur hour stuff I mean if you are going to copy a speach do it from an obscure rally is some forsaken town hall, not from one of the most memorable speeches that a potential first lady ever made at a DNC presidential conference watched by millions....

This is a comedy show

Yes, a classic Greek Comic-Tragedy gone bust. We have seen such "amateur hour stuff" quite frequently by Donald Trump during past months while he plays Celebrity Apprentice President (e.g., Trump Email Scandal: sending fundraising Emails to foreign MPs in several nations, which was against both diplomatic protocols and Federal Election Commission laws). I just cannot wait until SNL or Seth Meyers Closer Look spoofs this RNC Day 1 speech by "presumptive" First Lady Melania Trump. I'll probably need oxygen after laughing too much!

Right now I want to do a Jimmy Fallon Tonight Show "Thank you note" routine: Thank you Donald and Melania for the entertaining 2016 first season of Celebrity Apprentice President!

TheDoctor

Low on actual policy but plenty of talking points from day 1.

From an attempted last minute coup, a stolen speech, the protests and a minute by minute re-enactment of Benghazi!

20Cent

The Speech plagiarism sounds like sabotage from inside the Donald camp.

Black Swan

20Cent wrote: »

The Speech plagiarism sounds like sabotage from inside the Donald camp.

That does not explain why Melania Trump clearly said "I wrote it" when being interviewed by NBC's Matt Lauer before she gave the convention speech. Did she write it, or was that a lie, and someone else wrote it?

Not sure that any "sabotage" is occurring within the Trump camp, not being an insider myself, but some members of the Republican party are not being very supportive of Donald Trump at the Republican National Convention. For example, the convention is being held in the State of Ohio, and Ohio governor John Kasich does not plan to attend. There's now a war of words occurring between campaign officials on both sides, Trump's and Kasich's. Makes me wonder whom else of the leading Republicans will fail to show, or perhaps they will show later? There's still a week to go.

TheDoctor

Of the living Republican Presidential Nominees only Bob Dole is going to be in attendance.

2012 Nominee Mitt Romney - Not going
2008 Nominee John McCain - Not going
2000/2004 Nominee George W Bush - Not going
1996 Nominee Bob Dole - Going
1988/1992 Nominee George H W Bush - Not going

Imagine a Democratic convention and Barack Obama and Bill Clinton decided not to attend. A very divided party.

Mr Freeze

Black Swan wrote: »

That does not explain why Melania Trump clearly said "I wrote it" when being interviewed by NBC's Matt Lauer before she gave the convention speech. Did she write it, or was that a lie, and someone else wrote it?

They are really going to regret that sound bite getting out before her speech, or just pretend this didn't happen and move on, blame the media, etc etc.

20Cent

Black Swan wrote: »

That does not explain why Melania Trump clearly said "I wrote it" when being interviewed by NBC's Matt Lauer before she gave the convention speech. Did she write it, or was that a lie, and someone else wrote it?

Not sure that any "sabotage" is occurring within the Trump camp, not being an insider myself, but some members of the Republican party are not being very supportive of Donald Trump at the Republican National Convention. For example, the convention is being held in the State of Ohio, and Ohio governor John Kasich does not plan to attend. There's now a war of words occurring between campaign officials on both sides, Trump's and Kasich's. Makes me wonder whom else of the leading Republicans will fail to show, or perhaps they will show later? There's still a week to go.

Yeah she said she wrote it. You'd think they'd get an expert to go over it for her or have a few people proof read such an important speech. Either no one else read it, they read it and didn't notice, they read it noticed and didn't care. All scenarios pretty amateurish. Find it hard to believe no one would have gone through it with her. My theory is someone else wrote it they told her to say she did it herself.

Black Swan

20Cent wrote: »

Yeah she said she wrote it. You'd think they'd get an expert to go over it for her or have a few people proof read such an important speech. Either no one else read it, they read it and didn't notice, they read it noticed and didn't care. All scenarios pretty amateurish.

Donald Trump's campaign continues to be "pretty amateurish," and all too often they fail to vet something before they go public like not vetting Melania Trump's speech. In like manner they didn't vet the TP flag campaign symbol (that launched, then they quickly removed hours after doing so, given the massive and humourous web reaction). Makes me wonder what a Donald Trump presidency will be like: "pretty amateurish" in governance, diplomacy, and as CIC, all of which he has ZERO experience?

Mr Freeze

Black Swan wrote: »

In like manner they didn't vet the TP flag campaign symbol (that launched, then they quickly removed hours after doing so, given the massive and humourous web reaction).

I missed this whole TP flag thing, what happened?

20Cent

Black Swan wrote: »

Donald Trump's campaign continues to be "pretty amateurish," and all too often they fail to vet something before they go public like not vetting Melania Trump's speech. In like manner they didn't vet the TP flag campaign symbol (that launched, then they quickly removed hours after doing so, given the massive and humourous web reaction). Makes me wonder what a Donald Trump presidency will be like: "pretty amateurish" in governance, diplomacy, and as CIC, all of which he has ZERO experience?

Remember a while back when an American ship went into Iranian waters and was picked up by the Iranian navy. The protocol was followed where the Ameicans were processed and returned. Trump was railing about how weak Obama was, what a disgrace the Iranians were etc even hours after they had been returned.
Makes you think how an incident like that could go under a president Trump.

Black Swan

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I missed this whole TP flag thing, what happened?

Quick recount. What does TP stand for when market shopping? "Don't forget to buy TP!" Now look how the T penetrates the hole in the P. Can you just imagine the massive web humour that occurred? Also the long T looks like Donald Trump's extraordinary long ties in the Trump Collection that hang down to the groin, very much like a 16th Century codpiece sticking through Pence's P hole. And it went on and on, as you would expect with the relentless and humourous web. We were wondering here how long the TP flag symbol would last, and it wasn't long before Trump pulled it, while we were all laughing hysterically.

Amerika

A logo and similarities of a few passages in a speech between two would-be first ladies is what works us up into a lather this election?

With major concerns involving the economy, jobs, terrorism, illegal immigration, and spending, a speech and logo is what’s important?

Okay. But luck has it that the logo has changed, and lifting a bit of another’s speech in an election doesn’t really matter much... unless you’re a Republican, apparently.

TheDoctor

Amerika wrote: »

With major concerns involving the economy, jobs, terrorism, illegal immigration, and spending, a speech and logo is what’s important?

Very little policy discussed yesterday and what was had been heard before.

Amerika

TheDoctor wrote: »

Very little policy discussed yesterday and what was had been heard before.

True, but the theme of yesterday was advertised as 'Make America Safe Again.' And sure it has been heard before. But sadly our current administration doesn't seem very interested in defending some of our laws that are currently on the books. So a reminder that we are a nation of laws, and the office of President has a sworn duty to uphold and defend those laws, makes sense.

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

A logo and similarities of a few passages in a speech between two would-be first ladies is what works us up into a lather this election?

It also turns out mrs.trump didnt graduate in Architecture. She dropped out after the first year.

Is it important? No, probably not. But it accentuates the differences in the campaigns. Obama won in a landslide and Trump will probably lose in a landslide.

InTheTrees

TheDoctor wrote: »

Very little policy discussed yesterday and what was had been heard before.

Yesterday the Republican's released their party "platform" for the coming election.

And there's some gems.

They're committed to going after Pornography, calling it a public health crisis and proposing funding the centre for disease contol to study the problem. They wont do it for gun violence remember. Republicans block money to study the effects of gun violence.

They're going to promote coal because its "clean energy". Wtf right? You can get an idea of what value the republicans put in the environment. Current republican congress has already strangled the ability of the EPA to protect the environment, and they plan on going even further.

Also...they're going to repeal legalising gay marriage. No idea how they're going to deal with all the marriages already performed.

what else? Oh and they're going to hand backk all federal land to the states. So goodbye National Parks. There'll be clear cut logging in yosemite before trumps up for election again.

Here's the link:

https://www.scribd.com/document/318660213/RNC-Platform#from_embed?campaign=4417&ad_group=ONLINE_TRACKING_LINK&keyword=Skimbit%2C+Ltd.&source=impactradius&medium=affiliate&irgwc=1

Mr Freeze

Amerika wrote: »

Obama admitted he knicked bits from that speech when called up on it though.

The Trump camp will deny deny deny.......

InTheTrees

Here's a quick CNN comparison of the some of the similarities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcbiGsDMmCM

LostinKildare

A couple of months ago, Donald Trump plagiarized huge portions of an op-ed by Ben Carson. (Note: Link is from a conservative website)

http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/16/trump-appears-to-have-heavily-plagiarized-op-ed-from-carson/

Apparently the course materials for the Trump Institute were plagiarized, too.

In the scheme of things, these are pretty small matters in comparison to the long list of unethical and illegal things Trump has done. Here's a brief rundown from the Atlantic:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/donald-trump-scandals/474726/

Racial discrimination in housing, tenant intimidation, illegally hiring and then refusing to pay undocumented workers, violating casino regulations (fined $1 million, including $200,000 for keeping black people away from his mafia friend's table), federal antitrust violations (fined $750,000), driving contractors into financial ruin by refusing to pay bills, declaring bankruptcy 4 TIMES. Allegations of fraud (Trump University -- case ongoing), sexual harassment, marital rape. etc.

It's very sad that such a person has gotten so far.

Amerika

I agree there are a lot of similarities of a couple brief lines between the speeches. I guess by everyone’s standards here Donald and Melania are in good company and should be lauded, eh? They join Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and Joe Biden as accused plagiarists. And even Michelle Obama, who was accused of plagiarizing part of her own 2008 DNC speech. Or does history start today?

LostinKildare

There's a fascinating piece in the New Yorker about Tony Schwartz, the guilt-ridden ghostwriter of The Art of the Deal (unsurprisingly, Trump claimed to have written the book himself -- he did not).

He describes Trump as a sociopath

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all?mbid=nl_160718_Daily&CNDID=33652143&spMailingID=9217394&spUserID=MTA5MjQwODQxNzUxS0&spJobID=961427027&spReportId=OTYxNDI3MDI3S0

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

A logo and similarities of a few passages in a speech between two would-be first ladies is what works us up into a lather this election?

The First Lady is supposed to be a role model in many ways for girls and women in America. Plagiarism is a serious problem in American schools, colleges, and universities today for both male and female students, and condoning it as she did by falsely claiming "I wrote it" during the pre-speech NBC's Matt Lauer interview is the wrong message to send to American children and adults. It's called "cheating" in schools, and now potential First Lady Trump advocates it through her "I wrote it" public NBC claim to every man, woman, and child in America.

She also performs as a diplomatic host to foreign dignitaries on behalf of the nation. It's no small matter when in the 1st truly important speech by Melania Trump she obviously plagiarizes several passages from Michelle Obama's 2008 DNC speech, and through her "I wrote it" false claim to NBC national news, sends a message to all that stealing the intellectual property of others is OK. But even worse, it shows lack of judgement needed in a First Lady, who is now the laughing stock both domestically and abroad for "cheating" in her 1st important speech before the nation and world.

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

The First Lady is supposed to be a role model in many ways for girls and women in America. Plagiarism is a serious problem in American schools, colleges, and universities today for both male and female students, and condoning it as she did by falsely claiming "I wrote it" during the pre-speech NBC's Matt Lauer interview is the wrong message to send to American children and adults. It's called "cheating" in schools, and now potential First Lady Trump advocates it through her "I wrote it" public NBC claim to every man, woman, and child in America.

She also performs as a diplomatic host to foreign dignitaries on behalf of the nation. It's no small matter when in the 1st truly important speech by Melania Trump she obviously plagiarizes several passages from Michelle Obama's 2008 DNC speech, and through her "I wrote it" false claim to NBC national news, sends a message to all that stealing the intellectual property of others is OK. But even worse, it shows lack of judgement needed in a First Lady, who is now the laughing stock both domestically and abroad for "cheating" in her 1st important speech before the nation and world.

Good thing Melania didn’t copy Michelle Obama’s lines from her 2008 DNC speech about 'the world as it is' and 'the world as it should be' or she would have to give credit to Michelle Obama Sal Alinsky from his Rules For Radicals. Didn’t seem to hurt Michelle much. But, then again, she wasn’t subject to a Melania Media Madness, was she?

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

Good thing Melania didn’t copy Michelle Obama’s lines from her 2008 DNC speech about 'the world as it is' and 'the world as it should be' or she would have to give credit to Michelle Obama Sal Alinsky from his Rules For Radicals. Didn’t seem to hurt Michelle much. But, then again, she wasn’t subject to a Melania Media Madness, was she?

Come on now. She plagarised Michelle Obama's speech. Plain and simple, if you submitted an essay in university with that much similarity you'd be in front of an academic board.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-36836599

Amerika

Brian? wrote: »

Come on now. She plagarised Michelle Obama's speech. Plain and simple, if you submitted an essay in university with that much similarity you'd be in front of an academic board.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-36836599

I admitted there were similarities in a couple of lines of her speech. And of course if you submitted an essay in university you might have to go in front of an academic board. Then again, if you plagiarized a law review article for a paper written in law school it might just get you a US Senatorship and Vice Presidency.