2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Igotadose

Amerika wrote: »

Good thing Melania didn’t copy Michelle Obama’s lines from her 2008 DNC speech about 'the world as it is' and 'the world as it should be' or she would have to give credit to Michelle Obama Sal Alinsky from his Rules For Radicals. Didn’t seem to hurt Michelle much. But, then again, she wasn’t subject to a Melania Media Madness, was she?

Wing-nut fail # 37: Bring up Saul Alinsky. And misspell his name (not Sal I'm afraid.)

But, thanks for playing

Amerika

Igotadose wrote: »

Wing-nut fail # 37: Bring up Saul Alinsky. And misspell his name (not Sal I'm afraid.)

But, thanks for playing

Forgetting a 'u' makes all facts null and void? Nobody tells me nothing! :pac:

But didn't Rules for Radicals have those phrases Michelle Obama knicked for her 2008 DNC speech?

And now that you mention it, Hillary Rodham (Clinton) was a huge fan of Saul Alinsky. Hillary met with him several times while she was in college and her support for his philosophy caused him to offer her a job, from many reports.

20Cent

Rick Astley also plagiarised in Melania's speech Donald Trump "will never ever give you up. Most importantly he will never let you down". Sweet words from his third wife. Whoever wrote it was having a right laugh.

Igotadose

Amerika wrote: »

Forgetting a 'u' makes all facts null and void? Nobody tells me nothing! :pac:

But didn't Rules for Radicals have those phrases Michelle Obama knicked for her 2008 DNC speech?

And now that you mention it, Hillary Clinton was a huge fan of Saul Alinsky. Hillary met with him several times while she was in college and her support for his philosophy caused him to offer her a job, from many reports.

No; bringing up Alinsky makes you suspect, since he has no links to the Obamas (he died when the President was a 10 year old living in Hawaii.)

Hillary wrote a thesis paper about him - good for her, nice job. Here's a discussion of what actually went on

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17388372/ns/politics-decision_08/t/reading-hillary-rodhams-hidden-thesis/#.VugCEccajFJ

This is an interesting summary from prez of the University about the young HRC: “The notion that a 21-year-old idealist somehow remains a 21-year-old idealist their whole life — she's not a radical at all. I think she's very mainstream. She's a pragmatist. She's a much more thoughtful, cautious, careful, pragmatic person — she's been burned so often.”

FWIW she started out as a Goldwater republican, and changed over time (in my view, for the worse, no Hillary lover here).

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

I admitted there were similarities in a couple of lines of her speech. And of course if you submitted an essay in university you might have to go in front of an academic board.

Trump and his supporters claim that Donald Trump is supposed to be an improvement over the "alleged" corrupt Washington crowd, and by close association potential First Lady Trump is to be too, and not evidence the "alleged" corruption in Washington and elsewhere. Pointing to other politicians or celebrities that may be "allegedly" corrupt does not excuse or justify Trump's "alleged" behavior as charged in court, nor make him better than others as claimed by Trump's devoted believers, or the lesser of evils as claimed by Trump believers that want to pretend to be objective.

"The Many Scandals of Donald Trump: A Cheat Sheet" by The Atlantic makes for an interesting biography on Donald Trump. "But the Republican front-runner is at least as saddled with controversy as Clinton is—and while many of the Clinton cases involve suspicion and shadowy links, many of Trump’s are fully documented in court cases and legal proceedings." Being charged in US District Court with alleged "fraud, racketeering, and corruption" may add to, and say a lot about the Republican nominee Donald Trump?

I just love the childish name-calling that frequently comes from Donald Trump's MOUTH. He cannot address in-depth why his policies would be better than those of his opponents, rather he focuses on childish, superficial name-calling similar to grade school kids when trying to bully another kid on the playground. "Crooked...(blank)," and "Lying...(blank)," just insert the name of someone Donald Trump is trying to bully. And his fans in the stands "cheer" and SHOUT the same childish name-calling, which says a lot about Trump and them indeed, and what kind of 2016 president may occupy the Oval Office after 20 January 2017.

This 2016 presidential election is a farce, and continues to look like an NFL sporting event, with fans cheering "My team, right or wrong, but always my team!" Just substitute team with either the Democratic or Republican party, and Trump or Clinton as quarterback. "Fight on!" with trumpets trumpeting, and everyone "cheers" for their side no matter what they do or have done. Deflated footballs no problem, "Hurray!" Coach trips opposing team player running near the sideline before he can score, "Hurray!"

Amerika

Igotadose wrote: »

No; bringing up Alinsky makes you suspect, since he has no links to the Obamas (he died when the President was a 10 year old living in Hawaii.)

Hillary wrote a thesis paper about him - good for her, nice job. Here's a discussion of what actually went on

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/17388372/ns/politics-decision_08/t/reading-hillary-rodhams-hidden-thesis/#.VugCEccajFJ

This is an interesting summary from prez of the University about the young HRC: “The notion that a 21-year-old idealist somehow remains a 21-year-old idealist their whole life — she's not a radical at all. I think she's very mainstream. She's a pragmatist. She's a much more thoughtful, cautious, careful, pragmatic person — she's been burned so often.”

FWIW she started out as a Goldwater republican, and changed over time (in my view, for the worse, no Hillary lover here).

I believe there was more to it than just Hillary writing a thesis paper about him.


http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-newly-discovered-letters-hillary-clinton-saul-alinsky-marxist-community-organizer/

ECO_Mental

Black Swan wrote: »

Amerika wrote: »

A woman, and child in America.

Melania Trump she obviously plagiarizes several passages from Michelle Obama's 2008 DNC speech, and through her "I wrote it" false claim to NBC national news, sends a message to all that stealing the intellectual property of others is OK. But even worse, it shows lack of judgement needed in a First Lady, who is now the laughing stock both domestically and abroad for "cheating" in her 1st important speech before the nation and world.

Well i don't think and not many other people believe that she wrote ANY of that speech. She would have had obviously had to have read over it practiced the delivery (look doe eyed in this passage etc) and would have made some minor corrections trouble pronouncing a certain word. BUT there is no way she wrote that speech. The problem here is the Trump campaign atm is an amateur, lets just wing it, campaign where up to now they have gotten away with saying anything they want and to get out of this they just shrug their shoulders and say we are not PC so go f off.

I feel sorry for Melaina really because she never signed up for this, she wants to design jewellery not make political speeches to the most hostile political partisan system in the world. She has put her trust in the people around the Donald and his ego trip and they have let her down bad.

They must have a bunch interns working on these speeches as i feel no self-respecting speech writer of staffer wants to be associated with this campaign. I will leave this here.. Would Karl Rove have let this happen

Amerika

In this ugly and dangerous political environment, stemming from sometimes violent disruptions to both Trump and Clinton political events from the radical Left, who can blame Wright State University from pulling out of hosting the first presidential debate in September.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/wright-state-university-set-to-make-major-debate-a/nr2Jw/

Black Swan

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Well i don't think and not many other people believe that she wrote ANY of that speech... BUT there is no way she wrote that speech.

Certainly many politicians have speech writers, but Melania Trump said in the NBC interview just before she gave her speech: "I wrote it." Now if she wrote it like she claimed during the Matt Lauer interview, then she plagiarized, or what they call "cheating" in school. If she did not "I wrote it" as she claimed to the nation, then what does that make her?

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

Certainly many politicians have speech writers, but Melania Trump said in the NBC interview just before she gave her speech: "I wrote it." Now if she wrote it like she claimed during the Matt Lauer interview, then she plagiarized, or what they call "cheating" in school. If she did not "I wrote it" as she claimed to the nation, then what does that make her?

I’m guessing Melania wrote it as much as Hillary Clinton wrote “It Takes A Village.” That they told their stories, ideas and feelings to someone else who actually penned the coherent and marketable products, and the gals simply slapped their names onto it.

oscarBravo

Amerika wrote: »

I’m guessing Melania wrote it as much as Hillary Clinton wrote “It Takes A Village.” That they told their stories, ideas and feelings to someone else who actually penned the coherent and marketable products, and the gals simply slapped their names onto it.

So she lied about having written it?

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

I’m guessing Melania wrote it as much as Hillary Clinton wrote “It Takes A Village.”

There you go.

mrs. trump plagiarized her speech so clinton must have too.

Logic = Gone

ECO_Mental

Black Swan wrote: »

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Well i don't think and not many other people believe that she wrote ANY of that speech... BUT there is no way she wrote that speech.

Certainly many politicians have speech writers, but Melania Trump said in the NBC interview just before she gave her speech: "I wrote it." Now if she wrote it like she claimed during the Matt Lauer interview, then she plagiarized, or what they call "cheating" in school. If she did not "I wrote it" as she claimed to the nation, then what does that make her?

Just now on BBC they had a GOP senator and Ben Carson saying that the Speech writer is going to be sacked (thrown under the bus) for that speech it shouldn't have happened

ancapailldorcha

Igotadose wrote: »

Wing-nut fail # 37: Bring up Saul Alinsky. And misspell his name (not Sal I'm afraid.)

But, thanks for playing

There's no need to insult other posters. Please refrain from doing so again.

Amerika

oscarBravo wrote: »

So she lied about having written it?

It depends. Should people be allowed to put their names as author if their stories and ideas are told to a ghostwriter who actually pen it?

And if the answer is 'no,' the Melania didn't write the speech and Clinton didn't write her books.

Black Swan

The 2016 Republican National Convention platform labels pornography "a public health crisis." Does this mean that British GQ's Melania Knauss (now Melania Trump) nude photo shoot was pornography, and should be banned from America per the Republican 2016 platform? According to British GQ: "Over 15 years ago we profiled Donald Trump's then-girlfriend Melania Knauss. Now his wife, our naked profile shoot on his customised Boeing 727 featured Melania wearing handcuffs, wielding diamonds, and holding a chrome pistol." Sorry guys, I'm not going to link or post her pic while Melania Trump lays on a furry rug on the GQ's front cover without clothes, including several risque inside shots in the January 2000 British GQ. Would the 2016 RNC ban their own First Lady? You cannot make this stuff up, as I said before, it reads like poor fiction.

Igotadose

Amerika wrote: »

I believe there was more to it than just Hillary writing a thesis paper about him.


http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-newly-discovered-letters-hillary-clinton-saul-alinsky-marxist-community-organizer/

Seems like she wrote a letter asking when his book would be out. That certainly disqualifies her from holding public office forever!

sigh

Let me state this more simply, since you brought up the nonsense about Alinsky: who is more likely to 'plagiarize' Alinsky - HRC, or a daughter of a card-carrying member of the Yugoslavian communist party? I mean, right, Alinsky was a communist and Hillary interviewed him and so... she's a communist, right? Maybe, I dunno, maybe Melanoma learned those phrases in Communist public school?

Any theory is valid in wing-nut world, isn't it? So there, you saw it first on boards.ie; Melanoma Trump wasn't plagiarizing Michelle Obama - she was plagiarizing Alinsky since she went to school in a Communist country! Woohoo! Contact the Washington Star or whatever that rag was you linked to!

BTW, the link you posted, was there any followup in the real world about these 'letters?' Smoking gun and all that... funny... nothing out there...

Billy86

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that by now, over 90% of Trump fan rebuttals to criticisms of him are "but but but... Hillary!"

Which is fitting in terms of how much substance he has actually given on policies and issues, and how much his fans care about actual policy rather than "Spics and Ragheads out, and women can shut up!", "bomb the sh*t out of the middle east", "Celebrity Apprentice Prezidentz lolz" or the old classic "but there's an R beside his name..."

By the way, from Clinton's "It Takes a Village" book...

"It takes a village to bring a book into the world, as everyone who has written one knows. Many people have helped me to complete this one, sometimes without even knowing it. They are so numerous that I will not even attempt to acknowledge them individually, for fear that I might leave one out."

EDIT: But since we have moved in to ghost writers and credit being given, rather than actual plagiarism, it looks like the Donald is not stranger himself - http://m.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/donald-trump-uncredited-ghostwriter-new-book-article-1.2424852

InTheTrees

Black Swan wrote: »

The 2016 Republican National Convention platform labels pornography "a public health crisis."

And yet they continue to block funding of gun violence studies.

But it makes sense doesnt it? They're against birth control, they'll stop legalised cannabis, and no more porn.

Plus they've alienated women, minorities and anyone under the age of 55.

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

It depends. Should people be allowed to put their names as author if their stories and ideas are told to a ghostwriter who actually pen it?
And if the answer is 'no,' the Melania didn't write the speech and Clinton didn't write her books.

Except using a ghost writer isnt stealing other peoples work.

Its dead Jim

Billy86 wrote: »

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that by now, over 90% of Trump fan rebuttals to criticisms of him are "but but but... Hillary!"

At least when they do that you know it's because they are unable to defend it. Im not sure how showing Trump acts just like Clinton shows that he is better but Im sure it makes sense to them.

InTheTrees

At some point trump is going to have to defend the published policies of the GOP

Why does he plan on defunding the Environmental Protection Agency?

How will he replace The Affordable Care Act? How is he going to privatise old age pensions?

The school yard squabbling was okay in the primaries because everyone was considered to be basically on the same page, but now voters are going to want to know specifics.

LuckyLloyd

InTheTrees wrote: »

At some point trump is going to have to defend the published policies of the GOP

Why does he plan on defunding the Environmental Protection Agency?

How will he replace The Affordable Care Act? How is he going to privatise old age pensions?

The school yard squabbling was okay in the primaries because everyone was considered to be basically on the same page, but now voters are going to want to know specifics.

Yep, Thursday's speech will have to lay out a platform - and one that can stand up to scrutiny and be defended over the remainder of the campaign.

Black Swan

InTheTrees wrote: »

The school yard squabbling was okay in the primaries because everyone was considered to be basically on the same page, but now voters are going to want to know specifics.

Methinks that most voters don't want to hear complex policy plans, read pages and pages of proposed bills and legislative analyses, evaluate budgets, or implementation strategies. It's hard to shout them at rallies. But a childish name-calling like "Crooked..." or "Lying..." can be shouted with vigour, and it fits well on posters, bumper stickers, and campaign buttons.

ECO_Mental

Trump is just giving ammo to the opposition, just saw a preview of jimmy fallon tonight. It had trump coming out from that white background with queen and then jimmy going into Michael Jackson"Billy jean" as i said earlier this is a comedy show. Entertainment..the trump campaign just keeps giving us comedy material every day.

PopePalpatine

I really wouldn't be surprised if a shell company for Trump bought up a crapload of ex-National Park land on the cheap if the GOP succeeds. :rolleyes:

y0ssar1an22

Quick question re the Melania Trump speech, and the allegations of plagiarizing Michelle Obama's speech.....

If MOB's speech was written for her by a team of writers, then how could MT possibly plagiarize MOB? The work never belonged to MOB in the first place?

LuckyLloyd

Black Swan wrote: »

Methinks that most voters don't want to hear complex policy plans, read pages and pages of proposed bills and legislative analyses, evaluate budgets, or implementation strategies. It's hard to shout them at rallies. But a childish name-calling like "Crooked..." or "Lying..." can be shouted with vigour, and it fits well on posters, bumper stickers, and campaign buttons.

You are right about the average voter not wanting to read pages of plans. However, you will no doubt know what an Acceptance speech for POTUS looks like and how it feeds into the debates. Trump is going to have to nail down what he stands for on Thursday to an extent he hasn't touched to date. No doubt the sloganeering will continue apace around that, but he will need to up his game significantly this week or risk getting crushed in an avalanche of negative media reaction this weekend.

20Cent

Apparently they are chanting "lock her up" at the convention. This is about as intellectual as it will get I think.

InTheTrees

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

Quick question re the Melania Trump speech, and the allegations of plagiarizing Michelle Obama's speech.....

If MOB's speech was written for her by a team of writers, then how could MT possibly plagiarize MOB? The work never belonged to MOB in the first place?

There's a basic rule that is dont steal other people's work.

Whether its writers, artists or musicians, you dont have to grapple with who the rights owner is, just dont steal it.

Trump plagarised Obama's speech. It doesn't matter who wrote it for Obama. It would have been a no-no even if trump had written it for Obama back in 2008.

It also shows that the trump campaign valued her (seemingly important) speech to the convention so little that they cut and paste sections instead of writing it themselves. Additionally it really breaks new levels of stupidity on the part of the trump campaign, i mean if you're going to steal content from a speech pick something obscure not the current first lady's speech to the DNC convention.

Its also drawing attention to the campaign's claim that she graduated "from a university in slovenia" with a degree in architecture. Which is not true.