2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

AbusesToilets

Akrasia wrote: »

I know you are, but what am I?

Any and all candidates who violate the law should be investigated.

Shouldn't you be supporting a candidate who isn't a criminal instead of picking someone who is (possibly) slightly less criminal than the other candidate?

Trump is a terrible terrible candidate, so is Clinton. So the voters should reject them both, and pick someone better.

I'm trying to decide between Stein and Johnson myself.

LostinKildare

Amerika wrote: »

If the Trump campaign violated federal campaign laws then it should be investigated... Right after they are done investigating Cheryl Mills, Huma Abedin, Philippe Reines, Jake Sullivan, Patrick Kennedy, and a host of others involved in the State Department/Clinton Foundation/Clinton Campaign, and now Julian Castro (at the top of the list of Clinton's VP choices) for violating the Hatch Act.

What do you mean, "Right after"? More than one complaint of campaign law violations can be, and are, investigated simultaneously.

Julian Castro already has been found to have violated the Hatch Act for praising Hillary Clinton in a Yahoo interview with Katie Couric while in his HUD office: “Taking off my HUD hat for a second and just speaking individually, it’s very clear that Hillary Clinton is the most experienced, most thoughtful and most prepared candidate for president we have this year.” Under the Hatch Act, federal employees are permitted to express their personal views on political issues, but not while they are conducting business under their government titles. His disclaimer --- "taking off my HUD hat for a second" --- was found to be insufficient, and Castro has put his hands up.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/special-counsel-housing-secretary-castro-broke-law-1468880366

Would that the Trump campaign just put their hands up about anything. You drew a parallel to Obama's use of Deval Patrick's speech --- when caught out, did Obama deny it happened? Did he lash out at other candidates? Did he say that Deval Patrick doesn't own all the words, or whatever crazy crap Pierson was spouting? Did he throw some underling under the bus (and in the process dig himself deeper?). No, he laughed it off, whoops, my bad, should've credited him. That is how a political campaign dispatches with what should be a small matter.

That is my point. The Trump campaign is so incompetent it cannot handle a rather trivial issue like this. The "Trump Organization" letterhead is a pathetic own goal.

And speaking of simultaneous investigations, I wonder what's happening with the complaints about the Trump campaign sending out fundraising solicitations to members of parliament of the UK, Australia, and Iceland. It's gobsmacking that they wouldn't know that this illegal -- it's Campaign 101 -- but perhaps it's not mere incompetence at work here? Because although the campaign has been advised that it is illegal, they are continuing to do it:

Donald Trump's campaign is still soliciting illegal donations from foreign individuals — including members of foreign governments at their official email addresses — weeks after the campaign was put on notice by watchdog groups. . . .

Fred Wertheimer, president of the campaign finance watchdog Democracy 21, said he's never in his four-decade career seen a campaign continue to brazenly solicit foreign cash after being publicly called out.

"This is kind of absurd. I don't know of anyone else in this situation who would just go on keeping on soliciting money from foreign interests," he said. "I think the fact circumstances here are unprecedented.

"If they are put on notice that their fundraising solicitations of potential foreign donors are illegal and they keep doing it, then you potentially have knowing and willful violations of the law, which moves this from civil violations to criminal violations," Wertheimer continued.

"It's open and shut that federal candidates can't solicit contributions from foreign donors," he said.

"There's a kind of arrogance about this," Wertheimer added.

Larry Noble, the general counsel at the Campaign Legal Center, said the Trump campaign's foreign solicitations are "really outrageous."

"It is a serious violation of federal law to solicit political contributions from foreign nationals," he said. . .

"If the Trump campaign has continued to solicit foreign nationals after the matter first came to light in June, this looks like either gross incompetence, gross negligence, or wilfull conduct."

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/288031-trump-campaign-solicits-illegal-foreign-donations-despite-warnings

Black Swan

Ben Carson's Republican National Convention speech suggested that Hillary Clinton was in league with Lucifer. What kind of Republican conference delegates or Trump supporters would believe this kind of absolute nonsense, and not be embarrassed by Carson's analogy? An earlier poster on this thread very eloquently described how Donald Trump was promising to return the country to the America that existed in 1950 (e.g., Happy Days, and Ozzy & Harriet), but Carson appears to want a return to the era, ignorance, and superstitions of the Salem Witch Trials. But why should I be surprised, given that Carson vigourously advanced the notion at an Andrews University in Michigan commencement speech that the Egyptian pyramids were not built for the interment of dead pharaohs, but rather for the storage of grain. Well, some may still think that Lucifer Spouting and unscientific Pyramid Granary Ben Carson is a qualified neurosurgeon, but these Carson statements makes me wonder if he still performs Medieval trepanation to let out those Lucifer spirits? What an embarrassment is Ben Carson for the Republicans.

What did Donald Trump promise to give Ben Carson for his endorsement? Lucifer forbid it was Surgeon General!

AbusesToilets

Black Swan wrote: »

What kind of Republican would not be embarrassed by Carson?

FYP

Guy is ludicrous, how he garnered so much support baffles me.

RobertKK

Ted Cruz is such an idiot.

He did himself no favours, got the sentiment in the hall all wrong, booed and is finished if Trump becomes president.

He should have stood by his party and it's voters who selected Trump.

Billy86

Black Swan wrote: »

What did Donald Trump promise to give Ben Carson for his endorsement? Lucifer forbid it was Surgeon General!

It might have been to keep Carson happy after Trump apparently plagiarised him, too.

Or maybe he thinks Carson can help carry the black vote. Might sound stupid, but considering the depth of thought the 'TP Alliance' have put into certain things in their campaign, it wouldn't surprise whatsoever.

Black Swan

Billy86 wrote: »

It might have been to keep Carson happy after Trump apparently plagiarised him, too.

Oh, I had forgotten about Donald Trump plagiarizing Ben Carson. Although it's to be expected given that it runs in the family with the prospective First Lady claiming "I wrote it" before NBC news Matt Lauer.

"Make Plagiarism Great Again!" **

Billy86 wrote: »

Or maybe he thinks Carson can help carry the black vote. Might sound stupid, but considering the depth of thought the 'TP Alliance' have put into certain things in their campaign, it wouldn't surprise whatsoever.

You forget that Bill Clinton has been called "The First Black President," and after leaving the presidency, opened his office in a Black neighborhood. Naaaaaaaa, the Black vote belongs to Bill's wife Hillary, and Ben Carson and Donald Trump can only fantasize about drawing a substantial number from that voter demographic. Plus there were decades of legal actions against Donald Trump for discriminating against Blacks, and Black Lives Matter has protested Trump numerous times.

**(Source for this quote given earlier in this thread).

FISMA.

Black Swan wrote: »

Ben Carson's Republican National Convention speech suggested that Hillary Clinton was in league with Lucifer.

I'd say Lucifer is mighty upset about that one!

Rjd2

RobertKK wrote: »

Ted Cruz is such an idiot.

He did himself no favours, got the sentiment in the hall all wrong, booed and is finished if Trump becomes president.

He should have stood by his party and it's voters who selected Trump.

Maybe, but to be fair Trump said some absolutely brutal things about his wife and casually linked his Dad to the JFX execution. Their was probably some political strategy in it tonight, but can somewhat understand him for giving Trump a FU.

Yuck, defending Ted Cruz:(

Black Swan

RobertKK wrote: »

Ted Cruz is such an idiot.

I will not dispute this claim.

RobertKK wrote: »

He did himself no favours, got the sentiment in the hall all wrong, booed and is finished if Trump becomes president.

He should have stood by his party and it's voters who selected Trump.

You must admit that Donald Trump childishly bullied Ted Cruz by always calling him "Lying..." over and over again, as if on a grade school playground, and certainly not an appropriate label for an opponent in the GOP primaries.

It's been said that Ted Cruz does not have many friends in the US Senate or the GOP, so he has nothing to lose by not supporting their nominee. Furthermore, Ted Cruz is very strong in Texas and Oklahoma, and his lack of support for Donald Trump may be a subtle attempt to influence the voters in those two states for Trump to lose? Odds are no matter what Ted Cruz does, Texas will probably vote Republican again; but this is an odd election year, and there are sizable voter demographic blocks of Blacks and Mexican-ancestry Texans, and if many non-minority Texan Republicans do not identify with culturally different New Yorker Trump, the latter voting segment may stay at home, who knows? Stranger things have happened in 2016, like a nominatee having ZERO experience in governance, diplomacy, and preparation for CIC now running for the highest office in the nation for all these 3 functions.

Billy86

Black Swan wrote: »

Oh, I had forgotten about Donald Trump plagiarizing Ben Carson. Although it's to be expected given that it runs in the family with the prospective First Lady claiming "I wrote it" before NBC news Matt Lauer.

"Make Plagiarism Great Again!" **

You forget that Bill Clinton has been called "The First Black President," and after leaving the presidency, opened his office in a Black neighborhood. Naaaaaaaa, the Black vote belongs to Bill's wife Hillary, and Ben Carson and Donald Trump can only fantasize about drawing a substantial number from that voter demographic. Plus there were decades of legal actions against Donald Trump for discriminating against Blacks, and Black Lives Matter has protested Trump numerous times.

**(Source for this quote given earlier in this thread).

Oh absolutely, I mean the Clintons do well with black voters, and let's also not forget Trump's previous comments like “Laziness is a trait in blacks”, or that he is a birther conspiracy theorist when it comes to Obama, and his role in the Central Park Five.

I'm surprised I had not heard much about the Central Park Five, who were arrested in 1989 for raping a woman and had Trump calling for the death penalty throughout their trial, even spending $85,000 ($165,000 adjusted) on four major newspapers (including the NY Times). They were found guilty... until 12 years later when they were found to be wrongly convicted and in 2014 were awarded $41mn from the state for basically ruining their lives.

Did I mention they were 14, 14, 15, 15 and 16 years of age? Because yeah, they were, and here is the ad Trump paid $165,000 in today's money looking to have these five (all black, would you believe it?) teenagers killed, which could well have had an influence on the erroneous decision of the court.



Oh, and Trump still thinks they're guilty...
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/325982969040879620?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

This is who some people want as President. What in the name of God are we to make of how he would react to any number of serious issues going by this kind of carry on?

Black Swan

Billy86 wrote: »

I'm surprised I had not heard much about the Central Park Five, who were arrested in 1989 for raping a woman and had Trump calling for the death penalty throughout their trial, even spending $85,000 ($165,000 adjusted) on four major newspapers (including the NY Times). They were found guilty... until 12 years later when they were found to be wrongly convicted and in 2014 were awarded $41mn from the state for basically ruining their lives.

Did I mention they were 14, 14, 15, 15 and 16 years of age? Because yeah, they were, and here is the ad Trump paid $165,000 in today's money looking to have these five (all black, would you believe it?) teenagers killed, which could well have had an influence on the erroneous decision of the court.

Yikes, I did not know about the Central Park Five teenagers, and how Donald Trump paid to get them convicted (news media campaign), only years later to be found innocent. Donald Trump has a history going back decades of being found guilty for discriminating against Blacks.

Quin_Dub

RobertKK wrote: »

Ted Cruz is such an idiot.

He did himself no favours, got the sentiment in the hall all wrong, booed and is finished if Trump becomes president.

He should have stood by his party and it's voters who selected Trump.

He's making a play on the basis of his belief that Trump is going to crash and burn spectacularly in November.

The thinking being, he'll be able to pull the party over to his brand of far right christian conservatism in the aftermath of a November debacle.

It's a huge bet , as even a respectable showing in loss for Trump would be the end for Cruz..

As others have said , Cruz cannot rely on friends or charisma for future support so his only option is to go big on the hoped for smug " I told you so" angle.

TheDoctor

Wow the reaction to Ted Cruz was toxic.

After all Trump said about him during the campaign, very surprised he decided to speak. Not endorsing Trump then really irked the audience.

I assume he saw it as a win win for him. Should Trump win he can say he turned up to speak and stood by their candidate. Should he lose he can say he didn't endorse him. However I think last night was a bad night for him.

TheDoctor

Plus the NY delegation starting the "Endorse him" chant and Cruz "I appreciate your enthusiasm" towards them seemed very condescending

Black Swan

"Fee-fi-fo-fum" Swanne smells the blood of a con-man.**

I just found out that Donald Trump had read the Ted Cruz speech and approved it before Ted Cruz delivered it. Trump tweeted: “Wow, Ted Cruz got booed off the stage, didn’t honor the pledge! I saw his speech two hours early but let him speak anyway..." What would have been an absolute boring lineup of long-winded praises for Donald and often repeated Hillary attacks, what's the news media talking about? The Ted Cruz speech.

To paraphrase Huey Long in Kingfish: Good news is the best news, bad news is the second best news, and no news is bad news for a politician. In other words, we have seen Donald Trump say "outrageous" and "sensationalist" things during the primaries (per his 1987 Deals playbook), and the news media flocks to report it, drowning out any stories about competing candidates. Now, on an otherwise boring 3rd convention day, the Ted Cruz speech (approved by Donald Trump) is getting massive coverage, as is the otherwise boring RNC. Such coverage is also helping to drown out Melania Trump's "I wrote it" plagiarism or lie, who was mysteriously absent from today's RNC.

I read the Ted Cruz speech, and the only time he specifically named Donald Trump was to congratulate him for winning the nomination. Not exactly something to go from cheering him many times throughout his speech, to booing him at the end because he did not specifically endorse Donald Trump. No, he did not officially endorse Trump, but he did not specifically badmouth him either. Then there was a (supposedly) impromptu lead-in to repeat the "vote your conscience" play on words by speakers following Ted Cruz.

A graphic arts friend of mine said "Watch the yellow caps!" I said "What?" She said the people with yellow baseball caps scattered all over the RNC floor in the crowd of delegates. Watch them. They frequently signal the crowd to applaud, cheer, boo, and chant we want Trump. It's all staged, just like the silhouette staged entrance of Trump on Day 1, just like Trump's Celebrity Apprentice shows (now the Celebrity Apprentice President show).

"Fee-fi-fo-fum" Swanne smells the blood of a con-man.**

This has to be the biggest con of the century.





** (Jack and the Beanstalk modified quote)

Call Me Jimmy

I'm not sure it's especially worse than previous elections (I remember having the same feelings in previous ones) but watching bits of the RNC it REALLY feels like I'm in the twilight zone, or some movie that's too close to reality for comfort. The level of pantomime, mixed with the willingness of the audience to go along with it, mixed with labotamised speakers... it feels like watching the gameshow in Requiem for A Dream.

Madness. I know the RNC is the nuttiest of the nutty, that's the only silver lining

Mr Freeze

RobertKK wrote: »

Ted Cruz is such an idiot.

He did himself no favours, got the sentiment in the hall all wrong, booed and is finished if Trump becomes president.

He should have stood by his party and it's voters who selected Trump.

Ted Cruz rolled the dice, take the heat now, but if he survives until 2020 he will be seen as the only one that really stood up against Trump and it might go very well for him then.

Its a big gamble on his part though.

RobertKK

Black Swan wrote: »

I will not dispute this claim.



You must admit that Donald Trump childishly bullied Ted Cruz by always calling him "Lying..." over and over again, as if on a grade school playground, and certainly not an appropriate label for an opponent in the GOP primaries.

It's been said that Ted Cruz does not have many friends in the US Senate or the GOP, so he has nothing to lose by not supporting their nominee. Furthermore, Ted Cruz is very strong in Texas and Oklahoma, and his lack of support for Donald Trump may be a subtle attempt to influence the voters in those two states for Trump to lose? Odds are no matter what Ted Cruz does, Texas will probably vote Republican again; but this is an odd election year, and there are sizable voter demographic blocks of Blacks and Mexican-ancestry Texans, and if many non-minority Texan Republicans do not identify with culturally different New Yorker Trump, the latter voting segment may stay at home, who knows? Stranger things have happened in 2016, like a nominatee having ZERO experience in governance, diplomacy, and preparation for CIC now running for the highest office in the nation for all these 3 functions.

I will be in Texas when the 3rd presidential debate takes place in October. I will be in Austin, would like to watch it with a group of Texans and see what they think.
I watched CNN last night, they said Republicans from Texas who supported Cruz were not happy with him.

It made Cruz look bitter and small, a bad loser, and irrespective of what Trump said about Heidi or his father, Ted Cruz could simply have done what Romney and the Bushes have done and stayed away.
Cruz could have been the bigger man, he lost and not many people like bad losers, the campaign for the Republican nominee was over, Ted Cruz chose to bring the bitterness of that campaign to Cleveland, people will not forget and he should have been fighting Hillary if his problem still is Trump.

Newt Gingrich tried to do some damage control and make out to vote with your conscience is to vote for Trump.
Cruz just made a spectacle of himself and will never be president after that performance.

One has to say that Trump has been great at destroying his opponents, and gaining most support which is the aim of democracy - get most votes that is what politicians do to get elected.
Crooked Hillary is a term most people know, this strategy has worked, associating opponents with a negative word.
So if you were to say think of word word to describe Hilary, you might say crooked...and the thing is I don't think one would be too far wrong.

RobertKK

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

I'm not sure it's especially worse than previous elections (I remember having the same feelings in previous ones) but watching bits of the RNC it REALLY feels like I'm in the twilight zone, or some movie that's too close to reality for comfort. The level of pantomime, mixed with the willingness of the audience to go along with it, mixed with labotamised speakers... it feels like watching the gameshow in Requiem for A Dream.

Madness. I know the RNC is the nuttiest of the nutty, that's the only silver lining

The DNC is just as bad.

The RNC had two people who were questionable, Ben Carson with his Hillary/Lucifer, and Ted Cruz using the platform to make it all about himself.

Next week it will be the DNC and you would think there are not enough abortions in the US. Hillary will be made out to be competent in foreign affairs.
I really think she is the worse candidate of the two, Hillary is proven incompetence while Donald is unproven competence.

InTheTrees

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ted Cruz rolled the dice, take the heat now, but if he survives until 2020 he will be seen as the only one that really stood up against Trump and it might go very well for him then.
Its a big gamble on his part though.

Yes. A lot of republicans have given upon this election and are looking ahead to 2020.

InTheTrees

RobertKK wrote: »

It made Cruz look bitter and small, a bad loser, and irrespective of what Trump said about Heidi or his father, Ted Cruz could simply have done what Romney and the Bushes have done and stayed away.

Its a political gamble. He may look bitter and small now but if trump loses the election, then in 2018 (when the next campaign starts) cruz will be able to proclaim that he was the only one willing to stand up against him.

ebbsy

Trump was probably delighted that Cruz got to speak, look at him coming out and milking the crowd while Cruz was still talking.

More free publicity, more Trump every time you turn on the tv. Plus he got to embarrass lying Ted one more time.....

ebbsy

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ted Cruz rolled the dice, take the heat now, but if he survives until 2020 he will be seen as the only one that really stood up against Trump and it might go very well for him then.

Its a big gamble on his part though.

Sure is. He was'nt exactly Mr. Popular vs Trump though.

Mr Freeze

InTheTrees wrote: »

Its a political gamble. He may look bitter and small now but if trump loses the election, then in 2018 (when the next campaign starts) cruz will be able to proclaim that he was the only one willing to stand up against him.

Exactly, I think this convention has shown just how divided the GOP is.

If Trump can't unite the party, then I don't think he had a hope in the general election. I think he will lose by a large margin, certainly larger than current polls are showing.

But I honestly think the states deserve him, I'd nearly like to him win and then all the people that voted for him slowly realise their YUGE mistake over the next 4 years, the only problem with this is, what damage it might it might do to the rest of the world.

RobertKK

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ted Cruz rolled the dice, take the heat now, but if he survives until 2020 he will be seen as the only one that really stood up against Trump and it might go very well for him then.

Its a big gamble on his part though.

The US is taking a move to the right, it favours Trump, and Trump being from the north east with Pence from Indiana on the doorstep of two swing states. I think he could do it.
CNN put out an alert last night which appeared on my phone, it was about Pennsylvania being now a battleground state from being a lean Democrat state.

They say currently:
Hillary has a solid/lean electoral college vote of 236.
Trump has a solid/lean electoral college vote of 191
Up for grabs 111 electoral college votes.
The states up for grabs at the moment are: Florida (29), Iowa (6), New Hampshire (4), Nevada (6), Pennsylvania (20), Ohio (18), Virginia (13), North Carolina (15).

CNN say that what is happening in the US with racial strife along with terrorism around the world contributes to uncertainty in the election.

Billy86

I have edited my post about the time Trump had an ad taken out in 1989 calling for the death penalty for five teenagers (aged 14, 14, 15, 15 and 16... all black, incidentally) on trial for rape, that likely played a role in their wrongful conviction, which was overturned in 2001, resulting in the five men (robbed of arguably the best years of their lives) being awarded $41mn.

It appears the link I had put to the ad was not showing up, so here it is.

Amerika

I watch the GOP convention on CSPAN because I don’t want to hear the pundits tell me what I’ve seen. What drama last night! Laura Ingraham was freakin’ awesome, and the highlight of the night… until Cruz took the stage.

Donald Trump said he didn’t want a boring convention, and he got his wish Wednesday. The highlights were Ingraham, Pence, and Cruz. Cruz started off well enough, but when it became apparent at the end of his speech that he wasn’t going to endorse Trump, it was painful to watch. It brought visions to me of the final scene in Planet of the Apes and the line ‘Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!’ directed at Ted. Cruz set his political ambitions back a few decades IMO with that speech... good thing he's still popular in Texas. The spontaneous booing from the crowd wasn’t orchestrated… it was organic for anyone watching live. And it was almost heartbreaking to watch Cruz when even he realized he lost the crowd and was sinking fast. What Cruz did seemed to solidify support for Trump on the floor in one fell swoop. In retrospect, I think Trump couldn’t have wished for Cruz to do anything other than what he did. It made Trump seem presidential and Cruz petty.

This morning I read an article that I think best describes, better than any other I’ve read before, the mood of the populous in this election… A mood of the voters that gives Trump a better than good shot at winning it all.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/20/donald-trump-is-right-about-one-thing-our-experts-know-nothing/

Call Me Jimmy

RobertKK wrote: »

The DNC is just as bad.

The RNC had two people who were questionable, Ben Carson with his Hillary/Lucifer, and Ted Cruz using the platform to make it all about himself.

Next week it will be the DNC and you would think there are not enough abortions in the US. Hillary will be made out to be competent in foreign affairs.
I really think she is the worse candidate of the two, Hillary is proven incompetence while Donald is unproven competence.

Yes I agree DNC will be the same kind of craziness but there's something extra dumbed down about the talking points of republican speakers, and they personally vilify opponents more regularly and harshly.

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

I watch the GOP convention on CSPAN because I don’t want to hear the pundits tell me what I’ve seen. What drama last night! Laura Ingraham was freakin’ awesome, and the highlight of the night… until Cruz took the stage.

Honest question. Why is it a wonderful thing that Laura's mother had the same coat for 40 years in order to save for her education? Why was it great that her mother worked until she was 73 instead of retiring? I have the utmost respect for hard working people, but doesn't this tell you how badly the system is rigged against workers?