2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

LuckyLloyd

So I'm watching Trump's Acceptance speech. You'll hear a lot about how it's short on policy specifics but high on dangerous nonsense. And that's true. But unfortunately I'm starting to think Donald J Trump is the political equivalent of Joe Montana.

It's a great speech from a delivery / connection / passion standpoint. He comes across as strong, caring and funny. And he knows his audience.

In terms of platform it's a Nationalistic, anti - trade, isolationist, anti - immigration, law and order, pity the poor program. Under Donald J Trump America's steel and mill workers are going back to work. Savages Hilary Clinton throughout to lusty chants of "lock her up, lock her up". 🇺🇸 Also appeals to Sander's voters and portrays himself as an "anti the Washington fat cats" candidate. And it all sounds far more credible than it should.

TheDoctor

Clinton to announce VP today?

Christy42

Amerika wrote: »

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Only caught the very end of Trump's speech after coming home from my second job. But what I heard I liked. A lot of reports coming in that it was received very well. Seems to have brought a number of independentsinto his corner. He has impressed me this week and has gained my support.

Huh. I remember his website talked about Obama spending too much on the military but it is gone now. I am curious what happened to all the statements saying that Trump would involve himself in less wars and now he is increasing the military budget? I guarantee ISIS won't stop because of the threat of a larger military and no one else is messing with the states anyway. I am also pretty sure Trump did not gain your support. He had your support already.

oscarBravo

Andrew Sullivan:

...I read Trump’s draft acceptance speech a couple of hours ago. It’s a remarkable piece of oratory, cannily crafted, framed by massive lies and distortions, crammed with incoherence, and yet, I’m afraid to say, scarily potent. It invents a reality – that the U.S. is in a state of chaos, lawlessness and soaring crime; that the world is careening toward catastrophe – and then makes a classic argument for a strongman to set things straight.

This is a very new departure for politics in a liberal democracy. We’ve never heard an appeal from a major party platform to junk traditional democratic norms, and cede power to a new tyrant, whose magical powers will somehow cause almost every problem in the country to disappear. In this election, the very basis of liberal democracy is on the ballot.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/07/andrew-sullivan-liveblogs-the-rnc-night-4.html

RobertKK

The funniest thing about Trump's speech?

On CNN his main critics on the panel after the speech saying they were terrified and they thought he failed.
Then the poll taken after the speech.
Viewers found the speech:
Very positive 57%
Somewhat positive 18%
Negative effect 24%

Out of touch people were going how negative the speech was, the fact is we live in a negative world that is not on the right path.
The problem with Hillary is she tied herself to Obama and without doubt the world and the US is in a worse position than the start of the Obama era.

A majority will not vote for 4 more years of the same, there is no evidence that doing the same thing will make things better, so people will vote for change.

oscarBravo

RobertKK wrote: »

...without doubt the world and the US is in a worse position than the start of the Obama era.

By what metric, exactly?

RobertKK

Another CNN poll:

In what direction will the policies proposed by Trump move the country?
Right direction 73%
Wrong direction 24%

---

How did Trump's speech affect your vote - likelihood to vote for Trump:
More likely 56%
Less likely 10%
No change 32%


It was a good night for the Trumps.

Fr Tod Umptious

RobertKK wrote: »

The funniest thing about Trump's speech?

On CNN his main critics on the panel after the speech saying they were terrified and they thought he failed.
Then the poll taken after the speech.
Viewers found the speech:
Very positive 57%
Somewhat positive 18%
Negative effect 24%

Out of touch people were going how negative the speech was, the fact is we live in a negative world that is not on the right path.
The problem with Hillary is she tied herself to Obama and without doubt the world and the US is in a worse position than the start of the Obama era.

A majority will not vote for 4 more years of the same, there is no evidence that doing the same thing will make things better, so people will vote for change.

A bit like most of the posters here.

I expect glowing praise for every speaker at the DNC from here, whereas we have seen nothing but negativity and sneering at the RNC.

Its entertaining to read to be honest.

Christy42

RobertKK wrote: »

Another CNN poll:

In what direction will the policies proposed by Trump move the country?
Right direction 73%
Wrong direction 24%

---

How did Trump's speech affect your vote - likelihood to vote for Trump:
More likely 56%
Less likely 10%
No change 32%


It was a good night for the Trumps.

Who was polled out of curiosity? It seemed like a speech to his base primarily. For instance continuing with the wall line is only popular with republicans http://www.gallup.com/poll/193817/republicans-favor-path-citizenship-wall.aspx?g_source=Election%202016&g_medium=newsfeed&g_campaign=tiles.

RobertKK

oscarBravo wrote: »

By what metric, exactly?

When Obama took over from Bush there was the Iraq mess.
The Obama administration were cheerleaders and actively supported regime change in Libya with Hillary being the person who according to US media who convinced Obama to bomb Libya. Supported the opposition to Assad who quiet quickly showed they were radicalised.

Now 8 years on: mass movement of refugees from North Africa and Syria to western countries with terrorists hidden among them.
Hillary laughed about the removal of Gaddafi which she was responsible for, now Libya is a terrorist haven with many thousands (est. 6,000+) ISIS members in that failed state.
Europe now has a far worse terrorism problem from failed policies that Clinton supported and Obama allowed.

Race relations in the US are worse now than 8 years ago and police are being murdered on the street in the US.
The Obama administration and Clinton are all talk, just look at gun control, what did they do during the Obama administration when they did control congress for two years - nothing.

Then Hillary Clinton used her phone and email in foreign countries that are not exactly friendly on an unsecured email server. She had told Americans there was no classified emails.
The FBI said there was classified emails including top secret on her unsecured email, and the security was so poor they couldn't tell if it was hacked given how basic the security was.
The FBI called her "extremely careless".
So much about her is extremely careless, it could be used to describe her role as Secretary of State.

The democrats have done a really awful job with the presidency and government. People don't trust Hillary, she is so pro women and gay people that the Clinton foundation took $25 million from Saydi Arabia, which was followed by a record arms deal signed off by Hillary to Saudi Arabia. This happened with her other countries too who supported the Clinton foundation.
Hillary Clinton can be bought, which can be seen with the Clinton foundation.

Suryavarman

RobertKK wrote: »

Race relations in the US are worse now than 8 years ago and police are being murdered on the street in the US.
The Obama administration and Clinton are all talk, just look at gun control, what did they do during the Obama administration when they did control congress for two years - nothing.

If race relations are bad now imagine how bad they'd be with a racist like Trump as president.

RobertKK

Christy42 wrote: »

Who was polled out of curiosity? It seemed like a speech to his base primarily. For instance continuing with the wall line is only popular with republicans http://www.gallup.com/poll/193817/republicans-favor-path-citizenship-wall.aspx?g_source=Election%202016&g_medium=newsfeed&g_campaign=tiles.

I don't know but there is a bias by CNN towards the Democrats.
But then you have Christiane Ananpour married to James Rubin who worked for Bill Clinton.
Then you have Chris Cuomo who is the nephew of Govenor Andrew Cuomo of NY who is a Democrat.
I don't think CNN want a Trump victory.

RobertKK

Suryavarman wrote: »

If race relations are bad now imagine how bad they'd be with a racist like Trump as president.

Yes imagine, strange they had a black woman speak at the RNC who is one of the top executives in the Trump business organisation.

LuckyLloyd

Well I don't agree with RobertKK that America has gotten worse; nor did I agree with the political platform Trump espoused last night. His outlook is pessimistic, anti - trade, anti - immigration, isolationist, regressive and filled in with empty rhetoric about caring for the poor and the benefits of trickle down economics.

However, I also find the Liberal leaning posts to be very 'head in the sand'. Like it or not, Trump has mobilized his white base to an extent not seen before (the total votes cast in the Republican primary speak to this) and this election is taking place in a climate of terrorist attacks, renewed heightening of racial tensions and cops being executed on the streets. He didn't attempt any pivot to the center last night but he might not need to. Clinton is a weak candidate and there is an aura of fear and division in America at the moment.

As such, outright dismissal of his acceptance speech last night is as stupid as "under Donald J Trump America's steel and mill workers will go back to work again". It would be foolish to deny that he did about as well as could be expected in terms of delivery and articulation of his ideas.

InTheTrees

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes imagine, strange they had a black woman speak at the RNC who is one of the top executives in the Trump business organisation.

So the only black woman they could get to speak is already a trump employee? Sad...

RobertKK

InTheTrees wrote: »

So the only black woman they could get to speak is already a trump employee? Sad...

Sad????
Trump was called a racist here, totally with no basis that he would make race relations worse.

Obama has done nothing for race relations due to being a weak leader.

InTheTrees

RobertKK wrote: »

Sad????
Trump was called a racist here, totally with no basis that he would make race relations worse.

Trump has some of the lowest approval among african americans ever recorded.

Republicans are against healthcare for the poor, They're against gun control. Republicans have led the charge on voter ID laws designed to prevent minorities from voting.

RobertKK

InTheTrees wrote: »

Trump has some of the lowest approval among african americans ever recorded.

Republicans are against healthcare for the poor, They're against gun control. Republicans have led the charge on voter ID laws designed to prevent minorities from voting.

Obamacare needs major reform, it is failing.
According to Forbes the average cost of health cover per year now for a single person is over $6,000, and for a family over $16,200.
This is from Obama's affordable healthcare act.

Costs are rising rapidly.

Last night it was said on CNN that African Americans are not all motivated by Hillary Clinton.

InTheTrees

RobertKK wrote: »

Last night it was said on CNN that African Americans are not all motivated by Hillary Clinton.

o.k.a.y.

Can you remember who it was on CNN that said that?

InTheTrees

RobertKK wrote: »

Obamacare needs major reform, it is failing.
According to Forbes the average cost of health cover per year now for a single person is over $6,000, and for a family over $16,200.
This is from Obama's affordable healthcare act.
Costs are rising rapidly.

Those numbers are nothing spectacular, it was like that before obamacare.

Costs were rising rapidly before the ACA and have now slowed.

Trump wants to reverse it back to the way it was which is nonsense.

Call Me Jimmy

'I am going to turn our bad trade agreements into great trade agreements.'

RobertKK

InTheTrees wrote: »

o.k.a.y.

Can you remember who it was on CNN that said that?

No, it was very late and I was tired, but NY Times say:

The falloff in Democratic primary turnout — which often reveals whether a candidate is exciting voters and attracting them to the polls — reached deep into some of the core groups of voters Mrs. Clinton must not only win in November, but turn out in large numbers. It stands in sharp contrast to the flood of energized new voters showing up at the polls to vote for Donald J. Trump in the Republican contest.

Some Democrats now worry that Mrs. Clinton will have difficulty matching the surge in new black, Hispanic and young voters who came to the polls for President Obama in 2008 and 2012.

mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/03/us/politics/hillary-clinton-voter-turnout.html

Even among Latino voters the turnout was lower.

Amerika

oscarBravo wrote: »

Andrew Sullivan: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/07/andrew-sullivan-liveblogs-the-rnc-night-4.html

Andrew Sullivan is the Left’s version of Ann Coulter. He considers the candidacy of Donald Trump as a "extinction-level" threat to the USA, and urges support for Hillary Clinton even though he has taken her to task, also. Sullivan and Coulter are both entertaining reads to say the least, but their pontifications should be taken with a grain of salt IMO.

RobertKK

InTheTrees wrote: »

Those numbers are nothing spectacular, it was like that before obamacare.

Costs were rising rapidly before the ACA and have now slowed.

Trump wants to reverse it back to the way it was which is nonsense.

Even at one of those townhall debates Hillary Clinton was challenged by one voter on why under Obamacare she can no longer afford the policy she was on. That the cost had risen significantly to make it unaffordable, this after the promise by Obama people could keep their current plans - which is impossible if they are made unaffordable.
Hillary said she recognises there are problems and there are changes needed.
Neither candidate believe the current Obamacare is working for everyone.
Also costs are now at record highs. It is unaffordable for many.

Christy42

RobertKK wrote: »

I don't know but there is a bias by CNN towards the Democrats.
But then you have Christiane Ananpour married to James Rubin who worked for Bill Clinton.
Then you have Chris Cuomo who is the nephew of Govenor Andrew Cuomo of NY who is a Democrat.
I don't think CNN want a Trump victory.

I am aware that generally speaking CNN will have a Democrat bias. It still depends on what type of poll they took. There are valid reasons for them to take a Republican only poll for instance given he is a controversial nominee. Link or I am calling bull.

Suryavarman

RobertKK wrote: »

Sad????
Trump was called a racist here, totally with no basis that he would make race relations worse.

Obama has done nothing for race relations due to being a weak leader.

Trump is clearly a racist and it is obvious he would make race relations worse.

The man has run public witch hunts against black people. He tried to get a judge off one of his cases because of her race. He's happily used anti-semitism to his advantage and called for a ban on Muslims entering America.

Nobody like that could do anything other than worsen race relations.

RobertKK wrote: »

Obamacare needs major reform, it is failing.
According to Forbes the average cost of health cover per year now for a single person is over $6,000, and for a family over $16,200.
This is from Obama's affordable healthcare act.

Costs are rising rapidly.

Last night it was said on CNN that African Americans are not all motivated by Hillary Clinton.

Obamacare has been a success. It has massively reduced the number of uninsured and slowed healthcare inflation.

Suryavarman

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes imagine, strange they had a black woman speak at the RNC who is one of the top executives in the Trump business organisation.

Is that the best you can do? "I can't be racist because I have a black friend."

Amerika

If there is any doubt regarding media bias, let's look at some of the big three’s (ABC, CBS and NBC) comments from a few of their top anchors regarding Trump’s speech. Note: CNN isn’t even worthy of mentioning as this election they have rightfully earned the moniker of the 'Clinton News Networks.'

ABC: “If Americans are not scared for their safety before tonight, they are tonight.”

CBS: “It was a loud voice, more vengeful than hopeful. More hyperbole than details.”

NBC: “Some will see Trump as on a white horse who will lead them to some kind of sanctuary and then pull the drawbridge up. Others looking in are going to see someone they will only think as a demagogue of some kind.”

It will be interesting to see their takes on Clinton's speech when she gives it next week. Is there any doubt they will be wallowing in admiration and praise?

And sure, Fox News is favorable to the GOP in their reporting just as MSNBC is favorable to the Democrats... but they don't pretend to be unbiased.

RobertKK

Christy42 wrote: »

I am aware that generally speaking CNN will have a Democrat bias. It still depends on what type of poll they took. There are valid reasons for them to take a Republican only poll for instance given he is a controversial nominee. Link or I am calling bull.

Link for what?

Billy86

InTheTrees wrote: »

Trump has some of the lowest approval among african americans ever recorded.

Republicans are against healthcare for the poor, They're against gun control. Republicans have led the charge on voter ID laws designed to prevent minorities from voting.

It is funny how Trump fans seem to think the last few days have freed him of his racism, especially given how absolutely none of them seem interested in talking about his racist dealings in renting out apartments in the past

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-governments-racial-bias-case-against-donald-trumps-company-and-how-he-fought-it/2016/01/23/fb90163e-bfbe-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html
One very worrying part is this: The employees allegedly directed blacks and Puerto Ricans away from buildings with mostly white tenants, and steered them toward properties that had many minorities, the government filings alleged.

With how much right wingers give out about extremism building up in Muslim ghettos, it is pretty clear that they also blame Trump for contributing to racial tensions by ghettoising minorities in the US. Oh no wait, they just ignore it because it doesn't fit their narrative.

Just like they like need to pretend he didn't call for the death penalty for and compromise the trials of five teenagers (who just happened to be black) who turned out to be found innocent on appeal over a decade later. Of course, Trump still thinks they're guilty and went so far as to sarcastically troll one of them on Twitter over it, which goes to show you just how likely he is to concede an error or perform diplomatically.

And of course, since crime was an issue they seemed determined to crack down on yesterday, I wonder how many Trump fans are interested in talking about his well-recorded, close relations with the mob? The same mob connection one of his kids was still flaunting on Twitter only a few weeks ago during the primaries.

For anyone who is unaware of Trump's close connections with the mob...
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-mob-organized-crime-213910

No other candidate for the White House this year has anything close to Trump’s record of repeated social and business dealings with mobsters, swindlers, and other crooks. Professor Douglas Brinkley, a presidential historian, said the closest historical example would be President Warren G. Harding and Teapot Dome, a bribery and bid-rigging scandal in which the interior secretary went to prison. But even that has a key difference: Harding’s associates were corrupt but otherwise legitimate businessmen, not mobsters and drug dealers.
This is part of the Donald Trump story that few know. As Barrett wrote in his book, Trump didn’t just do business with mobbed-up concrete companies: he also probably met personally with Salerno at the townhouse of notorious New York fixer Roy Cohn, in a meeting recounted by a Cohn staffer who told Barrett she was present. This came at a time when other developers in New York were pleading with the FBI to free them of mob control of the concrete business.
From the public record and published accounts like that one, it’s possible to assemble a clear picture of what we do know. The picture shows that Trump’s career has benefited from a decades-long and largely successful effort to limit and deflect law enforcement investigations into his dealings with top mobsters, organized crime associates, labor fixers, corrupt union leaders, con artists and even a one-time drug trafficker whom Trump retained as the head of his personal helicopter service.

...

Neither Trump’s campaign spokesperson, Hope Hicks, nor Jason Greenblatt, the executive vice president and chief legal officer at the Trump Organization, responded to several emailed requests for comment on the issues raised in this article.

Here, as close as we can get to the truth, is what really happened.

Would any of Trump's fans like to talk about his mob connections in relation to his 'tough on crime' stance? Because Trump and his campaign certainly want nothing to do with that particular conversation.