2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

RobertKK

Suryavarman wrote: »

Is that the best you can do? "I can't be racist because I have a black friend."

Why would a white racist make a black person a top executive in their business?
Why would Ben Carson support Trump?
Why would there be other black speakers at the RNC up on stage supporting Trump?

Is that the best you can do? As if asking that validates your point.

oscarBravo

RobertKK wrote: »

When Obama took over from Bush...

[...]

Hillary Clinton can be bought, which can be seen with the Clinton foundation.

You said that "without doubt the world and the US is in a worse position than the start of the Obama era." If you're going to claim that something is the case "without doubt", I'd expect you to produce some measurable statistics to back it up.

So, once again, I'm looking for metrics - not empty rhetoric.

Unemployment? 7.8% when Obama took office, and still on its way north to 10%. Now? 5.5%.

GDP per capita? $47k when Obama took office; over $57k today.

Healthcare? Over 17% of non-elderly Americans were uninsured at the start of his first term; that figure is below 10% now.

Crime, including violent crime, has steadily decreased since 2009.

So, I'll ask again: by what metric are America and the world "without doubt" in a worse position?

Mr Freeze

For anyone that thinks Trump is not a racist, because a few here seem to believe he is not.

“I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is; I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

We could list racist comments of Trumps all day.

RobertKK

oscarBravo wrote: »

You said that "without doubt the world and the US is in a worse position than the start of the Obama era." If you're going to claim that something is the case "without doubt", I'd expect you to produce some measurable statistics to back it up.

So, once again, I'm looking for metrics - not empty rhetoric.

Unemployment? 7.8% when Obama took office, and still on its way north to 10%. Now? 5.5%.

GDP per capita? $47k when Obama took office; over $57k today.

Healthcare? Over 17% of non-elderly Americans were uninsured at the start of his first term; that figure is below 10% now.

Crime, including violent crime, has steadily decreased since 2009.

So, I'll ask again: by what metric are America and the world "without doubt" in a worse position?

US national debt will have increased from $9 trillion to over $20 trillion by the time Obama leaves office.

On food stamps 2010: In December 2010, SNAP/Food Stamps participation rose to a record 44,082,324 people, an increase of 486,503 individuals from November 2010, and an increase of more than 5.1 million people compared with the prior December.

http://frac.org/reports-and-resources/snapfood-stamp-monthly-participation-data/2010-snap-data/


“When unemployment was rising people said enrollment would fall sharply when things got better," said Parke Wilde, an associate professor of nutrition policy at Tufts University in Boston. "That hasn’t happened.”

About 45.4 million Americans, roughly one-seventh of the population, received nutrition aid last October, the most recent month of data. Unemployment was 5 percent that month. The last time joblessness fell to that level, in April 2008, 28 million Americans used food stamps, and the program cost less than half of what the government paid out last year.
Even though eligibility rules remained unchanged during the recession, annual spending for the program, administered by states with federal dollars, more than doubled in five years to a record $76.1 billion in 2013.

Even for those with jobs, pay may be lower than in the past: In real dollars, SNAP recipients in 2014 had net incomes of $335 a month, the lowest since at least 1989.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-03/food-stamps-still-feed-one-in-seven-americans-despite-recovery
It has been a low wage recovery.Tell me how the US is better after increasing their national debt by between $11t and $12 trillion?
What have they got for their money?

Fr Tod Umptious

Mr Freeze wrote: »

For anyone that thinks Trump is not a racist, because a few here seem to believe he is not.



We could list racist comments of Trumps all day.

That's an interesting and very damning quote.

When and to whom did he make it ?

Suryavarman

Amerika wrote: »

If there is any doubt regarding media bias, let's look at some of the big three’s (ABC, CBS and NBC) comments from a few of their top anchors regarding Trump’s speech. Note: CNN isn’t even worthy of mentioning as this election they have rightfully earned the moniker of the 'Clinton News Networks.'

ABC: “If Americans are not scared for their safety before tonight, they are tonight.”

CBS: “It was a loud voice, more vengeful than hopeful. More hyperbole than details.”

NBC: “Some will see Trump as on a white horse who will lead them to some kind of sanctuary and then pull the drawbridge up. Others looking in are going to see someone they will only think as a demagogue of some kind.”

It will be interesting to see their takes on Clinton's speech when she gives it next week. Is there any doubt they will be wallowing in admiration and praise?

And sure, Fox News is favorable to the GOP in their reporting just as MSNBC is favorable to the Democrats... but they don't pretend to be unbiased.

I'm baffled as to how you can call that bias. The whole theme of Trump's speech was that America was under threat both abroad and domestically and he was the only one that could save it. He did it while using the same angry, vitriolic rhetoric he has been using for his entire campaign.

Suryavarman

RobertKK wrote: »

Why would a white racist make a black person a top executive in their business?
Why would Ben Carson support Trump?
Why would there be other black speakers at the RNC up on stage supporting Trump?

Is that the best you can do? As if asking that validates your point.

He's a businessman. It makes sense to hire the best person for the job regardless of race.

Ask Ben Carson.

They might either be self-loathing or they might just hate hispanics and muslims a lot like Donald Trump.

You seem to be ignoring my post were I outlined some of his racists actions so I'll lay them out again:

Why would a non-racist call for the execution of a group of black men for a crime they didn't commit?
Why would a non-racist spend years claiming that a black president wasn't born in the USA when he clearly was?
Why would a non-racist try to paint a large proportion of the country as rapists, drug dealers and violent criminals based on where they are from?
Why would a non-racist call for a ban on people entering the country because of their religion?
Why would a non-racist retweet anti-semitic imagery?
Why would a non-racist poll worse among minority groups than any Republican presidential candidate ever has?

Amerika

Suryavarman wrote: »

I'm baffled as to how you can call that bias. The whole theme of Trump's speech was that America was under threat both abroad and domestically and he was the only one that could save it. He did it while using the same angry, vitriolic rhetoric he has been using for his entire campaign.

This morning I was watching the Morning Joe show on MSNBC. Scarborough was relaying a conversation he just had with a top journalist (I can’t recall his name) where the journalist thought it was laughable that the media now mockingly considers Trump the candidate of the apocalypse, when all Trump is doing was repeating and addressing the very same things in the headlines the media puts on their front pages every day.

Suryavarman

RobertKK wrote: »

US national debt will have increased from $9 trillion to over $20 trillion by the time Obama leaves office.

On food stamps 2010: In December 2010, SNAP/Food Stamps participation rose to a record 44,082,324 people, an increase of 486,503 individuals from November 2010, and an increase of more than 5.1 million people compared with the prior December.

http://frac.org/reports-and-resources/snapfood-stamp-monthly-participation-data/2010-snap-data/


“When unemployment was rising people said enrollment would fall sharply when things got better," said Parke Wilde, an associate professor of nutrition policy at Tufts University in Boston. "That hasn’t happened.”

About 45.4 million Americans, roughly one-seventh of the population, received nutrition aid last October, the most recent month of data. Unemployment was 5 percent that month. The last time joblessness fell to that level, in April 2008, 28 million Americans used food stamps, and the program cost less than half of what the government paid out last year.
Even though eligibility rules remained unchanged during the recession, annual spending for the program, administered by states with federal dollars, more than doubled in five years to a record $76.1 billion in 2013.

Even for those with jobs, pay may be lower than in the past: In real dollars, SNAP recipients in 2014 had net incomes of $335 a month, the lowest since at least 1989.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-03/food-stamps-still-feed-one-in-seven-americans-despite-recovery
It has been a low wage recovery.Tell me how the US is better after increasing their national debt by between $11t and $12 trillion?
What have they got for their money?

The deficit was massive when Obama came to office, Bush is as much to blame for the increase in debt as Obama.

Monetary stimulus has reached its limits necessitating additional fiscal stimulus (i.e. large deficits) to avoid recession and generate economic growth. What Americans have gotten for the additional debt is a growing economy, a massive reduction in unemployment and they have avoided a second Great Depression.

Amerika

Mr Freeze wrote: »

For anyone that thinks Trump is not a racist, because a few here seem to believe he is not.



We could list racist comments of Trumps all day.

Didn’t that quote supposedly attributed to Trump actually come as an allegation from a former fired disgruntled Trump employee, in an book he wrote, and not directly from Trump himself?

LuckyLloyd

Have to say, consistently stunned at Republican supporters who are starting to defend Trump because partisanship. He does not espouse the things you purported to like about Reagan or McCain. The Republican Party was never a strongman nationalist party.

Finding some of the twisting of ideals to support Trump on the right as disconnected as the lazy dismissals of his electoral threat on the left.

The speech last night was dangerous.

RobertKK

Suryavarman wrote: »

He's a businessman. It makes sense to hire the best person for the job regardless of race.

Ask Ben Carson.

They might either be self-loathing or they might just hate hispanics and muslims a lot like Donald Trump.

You seem to be ignoring my post were I outlined some of his racists actions so I'll lay them out again:

Why would a non-racist call for the execution of a group of black men for a crime they didn't commit?
Why would a non-racist spend years claiming that a black president wasn't born in the USA when he clearly was?
Why would a non-racist try to paint a large proportion of the country as rapists, drug dealers and violent criminals based on where they are from?
Why would a non-racist call for a ban on people entering the country because of their religion?
Why would a non-racist retweet anti-semitic imagery?
Why would a non-racist poll worse among minority groups than any Republican presidential candidate ever has?

A true racist would never believe the race they are against is good enough and wouldn't let them anywhere near a position of major influence in their business.

I have seen people say 'why in some parts of Africa do the men seemingly do nothing and the women doing all the work?'
The anti-semitic thing was people reading something into nothing.
There is a valid concern about fundamentalist Islamic extremism, we even see it in Europe people questioning allowing in people from areas with a terrorism problem. People are genuinely concerned.
I don't agree with all he said but Hillary Clinton is not mobilising minorities, like Obama who beat her her despite her name, she struggled to beat one man when Trump beat 17 others.
You should be asking why is Hillary not that popular, people can see she is responsible for a lot of death and destruction in North Africa and the Middle East, which has destabilised the world.

Peist2007

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Have to say, consistently stunned at Republican supporters who are starting to defend Trump because partisanship. He does not espouse the things you purported to like about Reagan or McCain. The Republican Party was never a strongman nationalist party.

Finding some of the twisting of ideals to support Trump on the right as disconnected as the lazy dismissals of his electoral threat on the left.

The speech last night was dangerous.

Both candidates are extremely dangerous. Only one, in my opinion, is full of bluster however.

TheDoctor

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Have to say, consistently stunned at Republican supporters who are starting to defend Trump because partisanship. He does not espouse the things you purported to like about Reagan or McCain. The Republican Party was never a strongman nationalist party.

Finding some of the twisting of ideals to support Trump on the right as disconnected as the lazy dismissals of his electoral threat on the left.

The speech last night was dangerous.

All hail overlord Trump

Mr Freeze

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That's an interesting and very damning quote.

When and to whom did he make it ?

Amerika wrote: »

Didn’t that quote supposedly attributed to Trump actually come as an allegation from a former fired disgruntled Trump employee, in an book he wrote, and not directly from Trump himself?

Trump supposedly made it, in a book about him from the 90s.

Originally I thought this was a sound bite, but I couldn't find it, so you could definitely argue that the book might have been written by someone with an axe to grind.

The Washington Post has a story Wednesday about Donald Trump's standing with black Americans (summary: his standing is bad), which cites a crazy quote from a 1991 book written about Trump by former Trump Plaza casino COO John O'Donnell. Via Google Books, here's the relevant excerpt:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-courtship-of-black-voters-hampered-by-decades-of-race-controversies/2016/07/19/d9822250-4d2e-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html

RobertKK

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Have to say, consistently stunned at Republican supporters who are starting to defend Trump because partisanship. He does not espouse the things you purported to like about Reagan or McCain. The Republican Party was never a strongman nationalist party.

Finding some of the twisting of ideals to support Trump on the right as disconnected as the lazy dismissals of his electoral threat on the left.

The speech last night was dangerous.

Anymore dangerous than Hillary Clinton who pushed for the removal of Gaddafi and no workable plan for what came next, the void filled by ISIS.
Or Hillary Clinton who pushed for the removal of Assad which would have given the entire country to ISIS.
Or Hillary Clinton who supported the Muslim Brotherhood and who the Egyptian army had to remove because they were starting a civil war against Christians and other minorities.
Or Hillary Clinton who voted for the invasion of Iraq.

The most dangerous person in the election is Hillary Clinton. Her record proves it.

Call Me Jimmy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Have to say, consistently stunned at Republican supporters who are starting to defend Trump because partisanship. He does not espouse the things you purported to like about Reagan or McCain. The Republican Party was never a strongman nationalist party.

Finding some of the twisting of ideals to support Trump on the right as disconnected as the lazy dismissals of his electoral threat on the left.

The speech last night was dangerous.

I was open to the idea that trump may be better than hillary purely on the fact that he wasnt bought and paid for, so I wasn't reflexively anti trump by any means, but it's right in front of everyone's faces now, there is no excuse but willful ignorance. 'USA USA USA', 'YES YOU WILL', 'GOLDEN STAGE', 'GIANT FACE', 'MAKE US SAFE'

Peist2007

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Trump supposedly made it, in a book about him from the 90s.

Originally I thought this was a sound bite, but I couldn't find it, so you could definitely argue that the book might have been written by someone with an axe to grind.






https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-courtship-of-black-voters-hampered-by-decades-of-race-controversies/2016/07/19/d9822250-4d2e-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html

Did he say it though or is there just hearsay like above?

RobertKK

Suryavarman wrote: »

The deficit was massive when Obama came to office, Bush is as much to blame for the increase in debt as Obama.

Monetary stimulus has reached its limits necessitating additional fiscal stimulus (i.e. large deficits) to avoid recession and generate economic growth. What Americans have gotten for the additional debt is a growing economy, a massive reduction in unemployment and they have avoided a second Great Depression.

Low wage jobs created and a Fed that has to keep rates near 0% because the recovery is fragile.

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Promises, promises, promises, that's mostly what politicians do, and now Trump is a politician just like the rest, making promises that cannot be fulfilled, and will be forgotten once elected. Politics is a con game, and as a con-artist Trump is the master. Of course after making this statement I expect someone to say, but, but, but Obama made promises that he did not keep, and that's supposed to justify Trump making promises that he cannot keep. How absurd.

I laughed when Trump said that on 20 January 2017 that Americans would be safe. Yes indeed, just add hot water, tea, sugar, and a spot of cream and we will have tea.

To borrow the cliche attributed to Phineas Taylor Barnum: "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute." And whether Trump or Clinton wins 8 November 2016, the aphorism applies.

Billy86

Amerika wrote: »

Didn’t that quote supposedly attributed to Trump actually come as an allegation from a former fired disgruntled Trump employee, in an book he wrote, and not directly from Trump himself?

And didn't Trump admit that he probably did say it?

Billy86

Peist2007 wrote: »

Did he say it though or is there just hearsay like above?

Trump himself says he probably did.

Christy42

RobertKK wrote: »

Link for what?

Errr the poll you were talking about. Really the result surprises and goes against everything I have seen so far. I would like to examine it as to how it fits in with other polls.


I do like the Trump isn't a racist he had a black friend excuse coming up here. He says racist things therefore he is a racist. Generally how that works.

Peist2007

RobertKK wrote: »

The most dangerous person in the election is Hillary Clinton. Her record proves it.

100% agree. This is a vanity project for Trump as shown by him offering Kasich a VP role which would effectively involve Kasich doing everything. Hillary is an incompetent psycho however with an awful track record. She will bring the US into far more wars than Trump.

Mr Freeze

Peist2007 wrote: »

Did he say it though or is there just hearsay like above?

Originally when I posted it, I thought he actually said it and it was recorded.

But its only written, so you could easily argue that it didn't happen.

Quin_Dub

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Trump supposedly made it, in a book about him from the 90s.

Originally I thought this was a sound bite, but I couldn't find it, so you could definitely argue that the book might have been written by someone with an axe to grind.






https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-courtship-of-black-voters-hampered-by-decades-of-race-controversies/2016/07/19/d9822250-4d2e-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html

Peist2007 wrote: »

Did he say it though or is there just hearsay like above?

Trump himself said the following

Trump told Playboy magazine that O’Donnell’s memoir was “probably true.” He told The Post earlier this year that the book was “fiction”, although he hadn’t read it. Trump said he fired O’Donnell, but O’Donnell said he quit.

The Playboy quote was a few years after the book was published , whereas the denial came recently , after he stood for the nomination.

You can make your own decision as to which of Trumps views on the book and it's contents are more likely to be true.

Peist2007

Billy86 wrote: »

Trump himself says he probably did.

That means nothing. Did he say it or didnt he?

Suryavarman

RobertKK wrote: »

Low wage jobs created and a Fed that has to keep rates near 0% because the recovery is fragile.

Most of the jobs created have been good, well paying jobs.

The fragile recovery is being experienced world wide. The recovery has been far stronger in the US than elsewhere.

Peist2007

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Originally when I posted it, I thought he actually said it and it was recorded.

But its only written, so you could easily argue that it didn't happen.

Fair enough.

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

Link for what?

Trump's nomination acceptance speech got a higher positive rating than Obama's in 2008.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-speech-rnc-2016-poll-us-election-positive-a7150031.html