2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Black Swan

Peist2007 wrote: »

Bill Clinton... No mention of it by you though, not very impartial are we?!

... Clinton... Clinton you say. I like what Max Weber (1922) in Economy and Society concludes about such things. To paraphrase him, no one is value-free, no one. That's why the Democrats are trying to fill the vacant seat on the US Supreme Court before 20 January 2017, and the Republicans are blocking them until after. The Court is supposed to be "impartial," but these 2 parties have demonstrated that they want someone who is biased towards their political positions, and not "impartial." In politics "impartial" is myth.

LostinKildare

Christy42 wrote: »

Guess it is a tactical choice. His anti abortion stance opposes Hillary's and my own. Definitely a few I would have preferred ahead of him.

??? He is personally opposed to abortion, but he doesn't believe it's his decision to make for a woman. A very reasonable and admirable position. He has consistently supported Roe v. Wade, and in the Senate he has a 100% rating from NARAL and Planned Parenthood (whose president has already tweeted her approval of Clinton's choice).

https://votesmart.org/candidate/evaluations/50772/tim-kaine#.V5MvavkrLIV

Christy42

LostinKildare wrote: »

??? He is personally opposed to abortion, but he doesn't believe it's his decision to make for a woman. A very reasonable and admirable position. He has consistently supported Roe v. Wade, and in the Senate he has a 100% rating from NARAL and Planned Parenthood (whose president has already tweeted her approval of Clinton's choice).

https://votesmart.org/candidate/evaluations/50772/tim-kaine#.V5MvavkrLIV

Woops. I blame it being late for me not doing enough research. Thanks for that.

LostinKildare

Would've loved Warren, but that wasn't gonna happen --- two women on the ticket is sadly still a step too far in the US. Besides, I'm not convinced Clinton needs a firebrand lefty on the ticket to drive progressives to the polls to stop Trump --- Trump himself will do that.

Kaine is the son of a welder who graduated from a Jesuit high school, flew through University of Missouri and then landed at Harvard Law. While his classmates were hanging out in Cambridge fielding offers from big firms, Kaine took a year off to do mission work in Honduras where he worked with young boys growing up in brutal poverty. The year abroad left him fluent in Spanish and with a deep commitment to using his Harvard law degree for the public good. After law school he made good on his commitment to service and rather than cashing in on his degree, spent much of his legal career fighting against housing discrimination.

Trump, by contrast, was sued by the Dept of Justice for racial discrimination in housing at 39 sites in NY.

Kaine has won every election he's fought, and is largely responsible for turning VA blue(ish). Certainly this wraps up this swing state for Clinton. Kaine has wide appeal for the reasonableness of his positions. For example, he is a gun owner, and yet . . .

Here’s how his elections in Virginia typically go: the NRA gives him an F rating, fear mongers about how he’s going to take everyone’s guns, spends massively against him, and then Tim goes on to win anyway. Keep in mind, the NRA is literally headquartered in Virginia. If they are powerful anywhere they are powerful in the Old Dominion but that didn’t stop Kaine from signing an executive order following the Virginia Tech massacre to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. It also didn’t stop him from pushing additional gun control measures as governor like eliminating the gun show loophole and it hasn’t stopped him as Senator from continuing to lead the charge for sensible rules like increased background checks. . . perhaps the definition of political courage for a Southern Dem is willingness to buck the gun lobby.

What else?

In Virginia, Kaine raised taxes, spearheaded efforts for universal pre-K, made Virginia the first Southern state to ban smoking in public places, and consistently opposed the death penalty. Let me repeat that last one. Tim Kaine consistently opposed the death penalty in a state that trails only Texas in number of executions. As governor, he bucked the prevailing law and order winds and vetoed eight different bills that would have expanded capital punishment. The issue was front and center in his gubernatorial race but he stuck to the Catholic values that have guided his life and never backed down.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/krystal-ball/the-progressive-case-for-_2_b_10773840.html

Kaine has a folksy charm but he is very very smart. He will make mincemeat of Pence in the VP debates (and if you don't think VPs matter, refer to my previous post about Trump's plan to hand the actual job of the presidency over to his VP)

Hande hoche!

See suggestions online that Hillary's VP pick is over concerns to win Virginia.

TheDoctor

What's his popularity like in Virginia?

Manach

LostinKildare wrote: »

??? He is personally opposed to abortion, but he doesn't believe it's his decision to make for a woman. A very reasonable and admirable position. He has consistently supported Roe v. Wade, and in the Senate he has a 100% rating from NARAL and Planned Parenthood (whose president has already tweeted her approval of Clinton's choice).

Or deeply political, meaning he does not believe in his own convicitions if it opposes the dominant party policy. Hence a perfect running mate for Clinton.

LostinKildare

Manach wrote: »

Or deeply political, meaning he does not believe in his own convicitions if it opposes the dominant party policy. Hence a perfect running mate for Clinton.

Sure, that's possible, but I don't see any reason to suspect it. It's hardly unusual to regard abortion as a moral decision best left to the individual. A majority (47% vs. 42%) of American Catholics believe abortion should be legal "in all or most cases." That's a higher percentage than the general population.

It's only White Protestant evangelicals that oppose legal abortion in the US.

http://www.pewforum.org/2009/04/30/obama-catholics-and-the-notre-dame-commencement/

InTheTrees

Black Swan wrote: »

The Court is supposed to be "impartial," but these 2 parties have demonstrated that they want someone who is biased towards their political positions, and not "impartial." In politics "impartial" is myth.

The founders always envisioned that supreme court justices would reflect the ideology of the president that appointed them. That's why there is senate confirmation. The founders weren't against change, but they wanted it slowly.

The justices are supposed to be impartial in their decisions but not necessarily in their ideology.

Call me Al

Its so uplifting to hear Kaine's positivity 're immigration and naturalization as opposed to that chant of "build that wall".

Eta he gave a great speech. It will be interesting to listen to him at the dnc

Black Swan

Hande hoche! wrote: »

See suggestions online that Hillary's VP pick is over concerns to win Virginia.

TheDoctor wrote: »

What's his popularity like in Virginia?

Tim Kaine was former Virginia governor, now US Senator from Virginia. So the VP pick was to win Virginia. Kaine was also an insider as former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, so methinks that he or Hillary Clinton will not attract many of Bernie Sanders independents, whom I believe will either stay at home 8 November 2016, or toss their vote away on a 3rd party candidate. In like manner, the vast majority of Sanders independents will not vote for pampered little rich kid Donald Trump, because Trump is a member of the multi-millionaire and billionaire 1% that Sanders was against during the primaries and decades before. To suggest otherwise is a Trump fantasy, and with his conservative religious fundamentalist and anti-abortion Pence VP running mate a pie-in-the sky. So by Hillary not picking either Sanders or Warren to unite both sides of the Democratic party, along with the loss of many Sanders independents, it's going to be a very, very tight race 8 November 2016 between Trump-Pence and Clinton-Kaine tickets.

Now I wait for one of the comedians to parody Ben Carson and give a skit with Carson saying "See, I told you so! Our Lucifer Clinton picked Kaine as a running mate, so vote for Able Trump!" Maybe they will also parody Trump in Pharaoh costume distributing grain to his supporters from Trump Tower (Donald's version of today's pyramid for the ultra-rich living rulers) in the background too?

Christy42

Black Swan wrote: »

Tim Kaine was former Virginia governor, now US Senator from Virginia. So the VP pick was to win Virginia. Kaine was also an insider as former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, so methinks that he or Hillary Clinton will not attract many of Bernie Sanders independents, whom I believe will either stay at home 8 November 2016, or toss their vote away on a 3rd party candidate. In like manner, the vast majority of Sanders independents will not vote for pampered little rich kid Donald Trump, because Trump is a member of the multi-millionaire and billionaire 1% that Sanders was against during the primaries and decades before. To suggest otherwise is a Trump fantasy, and with his conservative religious fundamentalist and anti-abortion Pence VP running mate a pie-in-the sky. So by Hillary not picking either Sanders or Warren to unite both sides of the Democratic party, along with the loss of many Sanders independents, it's going to be a very, very tight race 8 November 2016 between Trump-Pence and Clinton-Kaine tickets.

Now I wait for one of the comedians to parody Ben Carson and give a skit with Carson saying "See, I told you so! Our Lucifer Clinton picked Kaine as a running mate, so vote for Able Trump!" Maybe they will also parody Trump in Pharaoh costume distributing grain to his supporters from Trump Tower (Donald's version of today's pyramid for the ultra-rich living rulers) in the background too?

Fear of Trump could drive the Sanders group to the polls. There was also the risk that whoever took up the VP position would just be branded a traitor to Sanders if they had been on Sanders' side and not bring the support with them (see a lot of reaction to Warren appearing with Clinton). Kaine seems to be the start of an attempt to take the middle after Trump doubled down on his base support during the week.

Black Swan

Christy42 wrote: »

Fear of Trump could drive the Sanders group to the polls. There was also the risk that whoever took up the VP position would just be branded a traitor to Sanders if they had been on Sanders' side and not bring the support with them (see a lot of reaction to Warren appearing with Clinton). Kaine seems to be the start of an attempt to take the middle after Trump doubled down on his base support during the week.

This alternative may have merit, but I do not have empirical data to support either position, only my anecdotal armchair opinion. I have several student and faculty friends who will either not vote, or vote for a 3rd party candidate, but they are all in California, and California with its 55 ECs (20% of 270 ECs to win presidency) is going to Hillary Clinton no doubt. I laughed when former Celebrity Apprentice host and Miss USA owner Donald Trump claimed that there were going to be many film, telly show, and singer celebrities coming to endorse him at last week's RNC, and I could not remember one from the very few that showed, except for the old has-been Scott Baio from Happy Days. Why didn't the many celebrity contestants from his Celebrity Apprentice show come to Trump's national convention? I'll bet they did not want to be seen as endorsing him at the RNC, because they would lose a lot of their fans. Alternatively, I'll bet that there will be a host of stars coming out to endorse Hillary Clinton this coming week.

InTheTrees

LostinKildare wrote: »

The cherry on top is that in taking the fall for this, McIver states that she is "an in-house staff writer at the Trump Organization" rather than an employee of the campaign. And the statement was released on Trump Organization letterhead. This raises questions about whether the Trump campaign has violated federal campaign law by illegally using corporate resources for a political campaign.

There's more strange things coming out about "Meredith McIver"

Apart from a very brief appearance in a 2007 interview she doesn't appear online very much at all.

There's a twitter account set up last week in her name with some glaringly obviously photoshopped pictures of her with trump and there's a high school year book picture from 1962.

But other than that there's nothing about her online at all. Considering she's a writer you would think there would be some ind of online presence right? If she works for Trump there must be more evidence of her existence surely?

Trump has been discovered to have used at least three fake personas in the past, is it possible "Meredith McIver" is a fictional character?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/20/politics/meredith-mciver-who-melania-trump-speech/

Black Swan

InTheTrees wrote: »

Trump has been discovered to have used at least three fake personas in the past, is it possible "Meredith McIver" is a fictional character?

Indeed, it would not be the first time Donald Trump made someone up. One or more of Donald Trump's fake personas have been featured on this thread (John Miller and John Barron), where he impersonates someone that is supposed to be his publicist, that does not exist in real life, a PR agent that sounds and speaks just like Donald Trump from the recordings, a pseudo-PR agent that continuously praises, and praises, and praises Donald Trump, which Trump eventually confirmed it was himself after many denials. How can anyone vote for this con-artist Trump, who has a history of making up people to praise himself?

RobertKK

I wonder if this will be the 2nd Presidential election in a row where the VP nominee with Kilkenny roots loses.
Paul Ryan in 2012
Tim Kaine in 2016.

btw in my part of Kilkenny, Keane is pronounced Kaine/Kane.

Mike Pence has his roots in Clare and Sligo and as a child spent many summers in Ireland with his grandfather, cutting turf and making hay.
He is for immigration reform.

Billy86

What specific types of reforms? I'm not that familiar with him so some detail could help. Fully open borders is reform, and entirely closed borders to absolutely everyone is also reform.

RobertKK

Billy86 wrote: »

What specific types of reforms? I'm not that familiar with him so some detail could help. Fully open borders is reform, and entirely closed borders to absolutely everyone is also reform.

Pence has been an advocate for immigration reform and he uses his grandfather from Ireland as why he is for reform.

Article on Pence and immigration reform http://europe.newsweek.com/pence-trump-immigration-480983?rm=eu

InTheTrees

RobertKK wrote: »

Pence has been an advocate for immigration reform and he uses his grandfather from Ireland as why he is for reform.

Actually its more like he's bought and paid for by the powerful agribusiness lobby in Indiana that relies on illegal immigration.

Hardly matters anyway because he's the vp candidate and its Trumps plans that are GOP Policy now.

RobertKK

InTheTrees wrote: »

Actually its more like he's bought and paid for by the powerful agribusiness lobby in Indiana that relies on illegal immigration.

Hardly matters anyway because he's the vp candidate and its Trumps plans that are GOP Policy now.

You mean like how Tim Kaine says he is pro-life but has received money from Planned parenthood?

InTheTrees

RobertKK wrote: »

You mean like how Tim Kaine says he is pro-life but has received money from Planned parenthood?

No. It isn't.

Whats wrong with Planned Parenthood?

RobertKK

InTheTrees wrote: »

No. It isn't.

Whats wrong with Planned Parenthood?

You implied Pence was bought with no evidence. Yet Kaine has a 100% voting record for abortion issues and received money from planned parenthood.
Why is it not different.

I see planned parenthood closed 6 clinics that were low profit, they were clinics that didn't perform abortions. If you like abortions there is nothing wrong with them. Tim Kaine shows he stands for little by saying he is pro life with a 100% pro-choice voting record and receiving money from an abortion provider.

Black Swan

It's interesting how Donald Trump attacked Super PACs during the primaries, claiming that such politicians that received such monies were corrupt. Now that he has been nominated, he too is soliciting and receiving Super PACs monies like Rebuilding America Now, so does that mean that he is corrupt too? Most if not all US politicians are bought, no matter Democratic or Republican, so to claim that one is better than the other is a joke.

Fr Tod Umptious

RobertKK wrote: »

I wonder if this will be the 2nd Presidential election in a row where the VP nominee with Kilkenny roots loses.
Paul Ryan in 2012
Tim Kaine in 2016.

btw in my part of Kilkenny, Keane is pronounced Kaine/Kane.

Mike Pence has his roots in Clare and Sligo and as a child spent many summers in Ireland with his grandfather, cutting turf and making hay.
He is for immigration reform.

Don't expect to hear much about Pence's Irish roots from the Irish media, it just does not suit the narrative that Irish American = Democrat.

We heard very little about Ryan's roots in 2012 but lots about Biden's in 2008 if I recall.

Igotadose

Garry Kasparove on Hair Furor and Putin: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/donald-trump-reminds-me-of-vladimir-putin--and-that-is-terrifying/2016/07/23/36397692-50e5-11e6-a7d8-13d06b37f256_story.html

Summary: They're two peas in a pod.

Akrasia

I don't want my county to be associated with a politician like Mike Pence

Can we not pretend he's from Kerry instead?

LostinKildare

RobertKK wrote: »

You mean like how Tim Kaine says he is pro-life but has received money from Planned parenthood?

Has Kaine ever labeled himself "pro-life"? Please provide a link.

Suryavarman

LostinKildare wrote: »

Has Kaine ever labeled himself "pro-life"? Please provide a link.

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/22/12244762/tim-kaine-hillary-clinton-vice-president-running-mate-announcement

I have a faith-based objection to abortion. As governor, I will work in good faith to reduce abortions by

1. Enforcing the current Virginia restrictions on abortion and passing an enforceable ban on partial birth abortion that protects the life and health of the mother;

2. Fighting teen pregnancy through abstinence-focused education;

3. Ensuring women’s access to health care (including legal contraception) and economic opportunity; and

4. Promoting adoption as an alternative for women facing unwanted pregnancies.

RobertKK

LostinKildare wrote: »

Has Kaine ever labeled himself "pro-life"? Please provide a link.

He said he is a traditional catholic and personally opposed to abortion. Look it up more links than one could quote.
His voting record on the issue shows he is not a traditional catholic and his voting record shows if he is he lacks conviction. So he lies either way.

LostinKildare

Suryavarman wrote: »

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/22/12244762/tim-kaine-hillary-clinton-vice-president-running-mate-announcement

Where does he call himself "pro-life" there?