2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Amerika

InTheTrees wrote: »

Yup.

More "heritage foundation" right wing nonsense.

Ah yes... Words of wisdom from Ad-Hominem-Arguments-R-Us?

Can you disprove their published research and empirical data?

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Ah yes... Words of wisdom from Ad-Hominem-Arguments-R-Us?



Can you disprove their published research and empirical data?

I cannot disprove that there are a large number of americans that have cars in their driveways and refrigerators in their kitchens. These are not the best indications of poverty, however. A car can be a hand-me-down 1992 Corolla, or it could be a 2016 Tesla Roadster. A fridge can be a GE 1985-era model that's as old as the house, or a new Samsung model that can spew filtered water to the backdrop of LED lighting and give you the weather report with its connected smart capabilities. Neither indicates the ability or inability of the owner of those possessions to handle their medical or other living expenses, including the ability to procure sufficient food and welfare for their families.

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

Everybody does. That's a fact. Even those who espouse higher takes. And if you don't believe me think about all those progressives who demand higher taxes and look into the trust funds they established.


Perhaps it's not me that needs to get one's head out of the sand.
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/09/understanding-poverty-in-the-united-states-surprising-facts-about-americas-poor

That study is absolute rubbish. What good is comparing the standards of living for poor people in 1970 vs today? The only measure a study like this should be using is comparing the standard of living of poor people in America vs the rest of the world, which the OECD has kindly pointed out is much lower.

If you're going to use proper data, at least let it be from some non-bullsh*t source which compares America with the rest of the developed world, especially if you're going to brand America a 'world leader'.

Amerika

MightyMandarin wrote: »

That study is absolute rubbish. What good is comparing the standards of living for poor people in 1970 vs today? The only measure a study like this should be using is comparing the standard of living of poor people in America vs the rest of the world, which the OECD has kindly pointed out is much lower.

If you're going to use proper data, at least let it be from some non-bullsh*t source which compares America with the rest of the developed world, especially if you're going to brand America a 'world leader'.

Are making the claim that the data from the Heritage Foundation is wrong?

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

Are making the claim that the data from the Heritage Foundation is wrong?

Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant; it's comparing the standard of living of poor Americans now vs 45 years ago, not the standard of living of poor Americans now vs the standard of living of poor people in other developed nations.

Are you still going to claim America is a world leader?

Amerika

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant; it's comparing the standard of living of poor Americans now vs 45 years ago, not the standard of living of poor Americans now vs the standard of living of poor people in other developed nations.

Are you still going to claim America is a world leader?

Okay. Then could you provide me some of the standards of living for poor people in other developed nations, that are better than us, so we can compare standards.

And yes.

Overheal

World leader of what?

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

Okay. Then could you provide me some of the standards of living for poor people in other developed nations, that are better than us, so we can compare standards.

And yes.

This is the only statistic you need look at when comparing poverty in America vs poverty in other developed countries. Statistics on the "average" American income vs the "average" income in other developed nations are incredibly skewed, because the top10% of Americans own far, far more than the bottom 10.

Earnings at the 10th percentile as a share of median worker earnings in selected OECD countries, late 2000s

Amerika

MightyMandarin wrote: »

This is the only statistic you need look at when comparing poverty in America vs poverty in other developed countries. Statistics on the "average" American income vs the "average" income in other developed nations are incredibly skewed, because the top10% of Americans own far, far more than the bottom 10.

Earnings at the 10th percentile as a share of median worker earnings in selected OECD countries, late 2000s

On face value, those figures do appear disturbing.

Here are the poverty guidelines for the US.

Persons In..........Poverty
Household..........Guideline
1.....................$11,770
2.....................$15,930
3.....................$20,090
4.....................$24,250
5.....................$28,410
6.....................$32,570
7.....................$36,730
8.....................$40,890

Also, I don't believe those numbers include additional social benefits provided by the government.

How do those numbers stack up to some of the other selected OECD countries?

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

On face value, those figures do appear disturbing.

Here are the poverty guidelines for the US.

Persons In..........Poverty
Household..........Guideline
1.....................$11,770
2.....................$15,930
3.....................$20,090
4.....................$24,250
5.....................$28,410
6.....................$32,570
7.....................$36,730
8.....................$40,890

Also, I don't believe those numbers include additional social benefits provided by the government.

How do those numbers stack up to some of the other selected OECD countries?

They're gross earnings, so tax hasn't been deducted from them (which should account for a lot considering America is a high tax country in your opinion).

And I imagine the amount of social benefits provided by the US govt. is nowhere near the amount provided by countries in the EU and most others in the OECD.

Amerika

MightyMandarin wrote: »

They're gross earnings, so tax hasn't been deducted from them (which should account for a lot considering America is a high tax country in your opinion).

You are correct. But at these levels they usually get more money back from the government than they actually pay in.

And I imagine the amount of social benefits provided by the US govt. is nowhere near the amount provided by countries in the EU and most others in the OECD.

So are you saying it is near impossible to compare the US poverty level to other EU countries when you have to consider all the differences that would need to be factored in?

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

You are correct. But at these levels they usually get more money back from the government than they actually pay in.


So are you saying it is near impossible to compare the US poverty level to other EU countries when you have to consider all the differences that would need to be factored in?

True, but this would be the same for the lowest 10% of earners in pretty much every developed country.

No, I'm saying that if you pick any country in the EU on this list, or indeed any country on this list at all, you'll probably find that they're receiving more in benefits than the lowest 10% of Americans. You don't need to be a genius to know that poor people in Ireland receive more benefits than poor people in America.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Amerika wrote: »

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Are you still going to claim America is a world leader?

yes.

World leader of what?

Still awaiting a response.

MightyMandarin

Overheal wrote: »

Still awaiting a response.

I assume he means the greatest country in the world or some nonsense like that.

Although you need perserverance to get a straight answer from Amerika.

Overheal

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I assume he means the greatest country in the world or some nonsense like that.



Although you need perserverance to get a straight answer from Amerika.

In all fairness I would still like a response; to me its not about spin or scoring points I just want to know what the baseline is for calling America a world leader, a leader of what, etc.

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

On face value, those figures do appear disturbing.

Here are the poverty guidelines for the US.

Persons In..........Poverty
Household..........Guideline
1.....................$11,770
2.....................$15,930
3.....................$20,090
4.....................$24,250
5.....................$28,410
6.....................$32,570
7.....................$36,730
8.....................$40,890

How does someone live in the US on $11,770 or below? What about the high cost of living in the US? Has that been factored in?

That would not pay my rent to the wealthiest landlord in the country, who declared a one billion dollar gain in net worth 2014/Forbes (by increasing our rents by 8.6 percent last year and 7.9 percent this year, without adding any value to the property). In addition to advancing my education, I have to work two jobs to pay that billionaire. And I live in a tiny 1-bed, 1-bath flat, where the lion's share of my income goes to the billionaire. Oh, I could move to the war zone where there's gangs and high crime to reduce my rent, but then I would have to buy a car and all the associated car expenses, and waste time commuting, or take the bus (public transportation is terrible on the west coast). To make ends meet, I have taken a flatmate to pay half the rent, while this billionaire lives in a Sarah Gore multi-million dollar mansion with ocean view and poor folks servants from the war zone waiting on him hand and foot. But this is only anecdotal evidence, and not statistically relevant, so forget what I said. :pac:

jobbridge4life

Trump may be lurching even further to the right if his latest hire is anything to go by...

Clovis has also suggested that nearly everything that the federal government does to aid the poor, the sick or the elderly is unconstitutional.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/08/26/3695372/donald-trumps-new-campaign-co-chair-makes-donald-trump-look-levelheaded/

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

In all fairness I would still like a response; to me its not about spin or scoring points I just want to know what the baseline is for calling America a world leader, a leader of what, etc.

I can only speak for myself, but it involves a number of factors. Some of them include American having the greatest soft power influence in the world. We lead the world in high technology, finance and business, and higher education. We have the most powerful military. We have a massive world trade profile (exports of consumer and technology goods and imports of natural resources). A Foreign Direct Investment of $180 billion dollars, and the largest GDP at $16 trillion dollars. Also, massive amounts of natural resources. Just those alone added together makes America a, if not the, “world leader” IMO.

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

How does someone live in the US on $11,770 or below? What about the high cost of living in the US? Has that been factored in?

That would not pay my rent to the wealthiest landlord in the country, who declared a one billion dollar gain in net worth 2014/Forbes (by increasing our rents by 8.6 percent last year and 7.9 percent this year, without adding any value to the property). In addition to advancing my education, I have to work two jobs to pay that billionaire. And I live in a tiny 1-bed, 1-bath flat, where the lion's share of my income goes to the billionaire. Oh, I could move to the war zone where there's gangs and high crime to reduce my rent, but then I would have to buy a car and all the associated car expenses, and waste time commuting, or take the bus (public transportation is terrible on the west coast). To make ends meet, I have taken a flatmate to pay half the rent, while this billionaire lives in a Sarah Gore multi-million dollar mansion with ocean view and poor folks servants from the war zone waiting on him hand and foot. But this is only anecdotal evidence, and not statistically relevant, so forget what I said. :pac:

Let me guess... You're in California, right? How does the cost of living there compare, to say, Tennessee?

MightyMandarin

Black Swan wrote: »

How does someone live in the US on $11,770 or below? What about the high cost of living in the US? Has that been factored in?

That would not pay my rent to the wealthiest landlord in the country, who declared a one billion dollar gain in net worth 2014/Forbes (by increasing our rents by 8.6 percent last year and 7.9 percent this year, without adding any value to the property). In addition to advancing my education, I have to work two jobs to pay that billionaire. And I live in a tiny 1-bed, 1-bath flat, where the lion's share of my income goes to the billionaire. Oh, I could move to the war zone where there's gangs and high crime to reduce my rent, but then I would have to buy a car and all the associated car expenses, and waste time commuting, or take the bus (public transportation is terrible on the west coast). To make ends meet, I have taken a flatmate to pay half the rent, while this billionaire lives in a Sarah Gore multi-million dollar mansion with ocean view and poor folks servants from the war zone waiting on him hand and foot. But this is only anecdotal evidence, and not statistically relevant, so forget what I said. :pac:

Sounds like your living the Cali dream

In all honesty, if I ever plan on relocating to America, I'll avoid staying in California. I've heard some accounts similar to this and if I'm being honest, I don't see why you wouldn't think about moving somewhere where landlords don't screw you over and the alternative isn't moving into 'da hood'.

Overheal

Black Swan it sounds like California is either going to go up in flames, die of thirst, or get swalled up by the see in a massive tectonic event; have you considered Seattle?

Amerika wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but it involves a number of factors. Some of them include American having the greatest soft power influence in the world. We lead the world in high technology, finance and business, and higher education. We have the most powerful military. We have a massive world trade profile (exports of consumer and technology goods and imports of natural resources). A Foreign Direct Investment of $180 billion dollars, and the largest GDP at $16 trillion dollars. Also, massive amounts of natural resources. Just those alone added together makes America a, if not the, “world leader” IMO.

I can't dispute some of that, because its opinion based, other things because they're more or less true (the EU as a whole has more GDP only).

On education.. you specifically call on Higher education, which itself is the 2nd largest source of personal debt in the united states, at a sum of $1.2 Trillion. We can both/all agree the status quo is untenable, where we differ is how to fix that. Either way, its an issue. Gallup polls of business professionals also suggests that confidence in higher education is declining - the quality of the education, not the financial mechanisms.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/167630/business-leaders-doubt-colleges-prepare-students.aspx

The United Nations also creates the Education Index as part of the Human Development Index. The index measures years of school attainable and years of school achieved as a per capita assessment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

By those standards, the US is 5th, then Netherland, Norway, New Zealand, and Australia (#1), top that metric.

Pearson did their own study a few years ago (the link to the report is broken but the article summises) that put the US 17th in the world for education. Pearson would have a lot of infomatics on this, having their hands deeply embedded in the education industry: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/best-education-in-the-wor_n_2199795.html

I would have to rule out that we don't top that metric, and we aren't leading it, either. We're also doing awful things to textbooks that I could spend an entire thread going on about: deleting entire sections of the history curriculum that don't align with whomever's narrative, science books that teach creationism, etc. which also includes creationism taught at universities surely only in the course catalog to appease the fringe. Another page just going on about the professor at a public university making a 6 figure salary in the mechanical engineering dept. while still moonlighting contract work and forcing his students to buy a textbook he himself wrote. He's a pretty smart mother ****er, but THERE ARE RAMEN NOODLES IN MY PANTRY.

In High Technology, that is debatable. A lot of innovation happens in Japan, Israel, and many other countries. A less broad definition would need to be made to back that claim up. Our Telecoms are hampered compared to other developed countries: our decades of gerrymandering/oligopolizing markets for internet and telephony services has cramped our ability to develop. Comcast, among others, lobbied for the last several years against having broadband re-classified as a title II utility, saying it would actually kill innovation. Since June, new rules have gone into effect despite the broadband industries screaming bloody mary about it - and look, comcast is the first up to the stage to announce they will roll out the first Multi-gigabit broadband network. Coincidence??? I digress. Point is we have shiny things, mostly shiny military things, but overall our progress on technology from person-to-person is lacking. Yes, I know iRobot just got clearance finally for the first Roomba lawnmower, but we are still not leading the world with our terminator friendly lawnmower drones.

Finance and Business: could you please expand what you mean? Because from what I can tell aside from the GDP, we're pretty bad about this as well, we are $18.361 Trillion in debt, as of writing, We have aforementioned pools of personal debt, some of which are due directly to mixes of government intervention and non-intervention (Payday Loans, Delinquent Taxes, Auto-loan debt (Just because you have that car doesn't mean you own that car or arent in poverty!!), Mortgage and revolving credit debt, etc). Also, most of our businesses, are no longer our businesses: they operate out of PO Boxes in Switzerland and other loophole shelters. I wouldn't argue the dollar isn't massively integral in trading (and contributes to that soft influence) but that soft influence is also mostly won by an absurdly expensive military complex (that we can't continue to afford)

Again I know its just your opinion, but people tout the idea a lot and I think its worth hashing out: beating our chests and waving our miniature american flags is a great feelgood measure on the 4th of July or the 3rd bottle of the case of beer, but refusing to acknowledge we have issues doesn't lead us to improvements - and you can always improve things, hence the Lawnmower Drone.

Black Swan

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Sounds like your living the Cali dream

In all honesty, if I ever plan on relocating to America, I'll avoid staying in California. I've heard some accounts similar to this and if I'm being honest, I don't see why you wouldn't think about moving somewhere where landlords don't screw you over and the alternative isn't moving into 'da hood'.

Overheal wrote: »

Black Swan it sounds like California is either going to go up in flames, die of thirst, or get swalled up by the see in a massive tectonic event; have you considered Seattle?

I crossed the pond from Éire to So Cal because first one, then another university offered me scholarships and grants to attend and pursue their degree programmes. I graduated from the 1st, now finishing the 2nd. I didn't pick So Cal just because the surf and beaches are grand (which they are). I would have moved 2 years ago, but there is a relationship here: the lower the rent, the higher the crime.

Overheal

And a difference in the homeless rate I'm sure. Which got me thinking earlier about voter suppression tactics that may appear during this election cycle.

I decided to go to the SCDMV website to see what I would have to do to obtain a State ID card. Well...

Proof of Residency

• School Records – Records must be from S.C. school, college or university (current or prior school year).
- Student ID (address not required).
- Report Card (address not required).
- Letter or contract from Home Schooling Association.
- Official letter from individual’s school or school district on school or district letterhead.
- Letter from an out-of-state Boarding School or a Professional Career Development Institute indicating that the applicant resides in S.C. and attends school out-of-state.
- Certified transcript.
- S.C. high school diploma (child has graduated within the last school year – address not required).
• Out-of-state or in-state tuition bill with applicant’s S.C. physical address.
• Current employment record or payroll stub/statement (no more than 90 days old). Record/stub must be from S.C. employer or have S.C. address for applicant on records from an out of state employer.
• Current utility bill no more than 90 days old. A utility bill is specific to services for your residence. Examples are electric, water, sewage, cable, and land line phone lines. Cell phone, Internet and satellite bills are not acceptable.
• Parolee Card or letter from parole officer (no more than 90 days old).
• Home mortgage monthly statement (no more than 90 days old), or deed.
• Current S.C. Weapon’s Permit
• County Tax Bill for home (not vehicle) or Property Tax Receipt for home, not vehicle (current or preceding calendar year)
• State or Federal Tax records.
- Income tax returns for current or prior year are acceptable including electronic tax file or W2.
- If applicant listed as dependent on SC tax return that is presented as proof of residency, proof applies to dependent also.
• Current Military Orders detailing active duty assignment in S.C. along with military ID.
• Current letter from Military Base with the commander verifying duty station in S.C.
• Bank statement or signed letter (must be on bank letterhead) showing name of applicant and S.C. physical address (no more than 90 days old).
• Social security check/statement showing name and S.C. physical address of applicant (no more than 90 days old).
• Insurance documentation from company licensed to do business in S.C.:
- Current automobile or life insurance bill (no more than 90 days old – cards or policies are not accepted).
- Current homeowners insurance policy or bill (no more than 90 days old).
- Current health insurance statement (no more than 90 days old – cards or policies are not accepted).
• Letter from director of S.C. social welfare institution (homeless shelter, battered women’s shelter, halfway house, group home, orphanage, etc.) stating applicant is resident of facility (no more than 90 days old).
• U.S. Postal Service change of address confirmation letter or postmarked U.S. mail with forwarding address label (no more than 90 days old) must contain first and last name, state and zip code.

Proof of Citizenship

• Birth Certificate with birth/file number and registrar’s signature issued by the county or Bureau of Vital Statistics.
• Birth Certificate from U.S. Territory (Must be translated if not in English) – American Samoa, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico (issued after 6/30/10), and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
• Delayed birth certificate – If birth certificate is not issued at time of birth, customer can apply for birth certificate from Bureau of Vital Statistics.
• Current U.S. Passport or current U.S. Passport Card.
• Certificate of Naturalization – USCIS Form (N-550 or N-570).
• U.S. government issued Consular Report of Birth Abroad.
• Certificate of Citizenship (N-560 or N-561).

Proof of SSN

• Social Security Card.
• SSA-1099 – “Survivor Benefit Form”.
• U.S. Military Photo ID Card when SSN is present on card (active, retired or reservist military status with DOD).
• U.S. Military Photo ID Card along with DD-214 when SSN is not present on card.
• Current military dependent I.D. card.
• U.S. Uniform Services Identification and Privilege Card (DD 1173) must include photograph.
• Medicare letter from Social Security Administration*
• Medicare Card*
• Payroll Stub must include employer’s name and applicant’s name.*
• W-2 Form must include employer’s name, address, and applicant’s name.*
• State or Federal income tax return as long as applicant is listed on return with SSN.*
*NOTE – DMV is required to perform online verification with Social Security Administration.

How easy is it, really, if you were a homeless person in need of a new state ID and you were in a situation where you lost your wallet or something. You would be able to directly satisfy none of the criteria to prove your SSN, Proof of Birth, or indeed Proof of Residency requirements. Unsurprisingly you can note here where the NRA lobbied (successfuly) to have Weapon Permits admissible as proof of residency. Wouldn't want to exclude gun-toting right-leaning voters from voting after all! Virtually none of that information is retrievable if you've no paper on you, not without protracted amounts of cost and bureaucratic time, which most impoverished people will not have the ability to readily pursue to participate in elections.

Black Swan

Trump is appearing everyday on national telly across the pond, unlike his Republican presidential primary rivals. Today the big Trump news was whether he wore a toupée. A 2nd story interviewed Sarah Palin, asking if she would be Trump's VP running mate. Can anyone imagine a Trump-Palin ticket November 2016? Even worse, can you imagine them winning?

Brian?

Black Swan wrote: »

Trump is appearing everyday on national telly across the pond, unlike his Republican presidential primary rivals. Today the big Trump news was whether he wore a toupée. A 2nd story interviewed Sarah Palin, asking if she would be Trump's VP running mate. Can anyone imagine a Trump-Palin ticket November 2016? Even worse, can you imagine them winning?

The dream ticket!

jobbridge4life

Black Swan wrote: »

Trump is appearing everyday on national telly across the pond, unlike his Republican presidential primary rivals. Today the big Trump news was whether he wore a toupée. A 2nd story interviewed Sarah Palin, asking if she would be Trump's VP running mate. Can anyone imagine a Trump-Palin ticket November 2016? Even worse, can you imagine them winning?

He'd be better to pick Omarosa.

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

Trump is appearing everyday on national telly across the pond, unlike his Republican presidential primary rivals. Today the big Trump news was whether he wore a toupée. A 2nd story interviewed Sarah Palin, asking if she would be Trump's VP running mate. Can anyone imagine a Trump-Palin ticket November 2016? Even worse, can you imagine them winning?

I also saw where he thought it would be a good idea to outlaw teleprompters in campaign speeches.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

And a difference in the homeless rate I'm sure. Which got me thinking earlier about voter suppression tactics that may appear during this election cycle.

I decided to go to the SCDMV website to see what I would have to do to obtain a State ID card. Well...

Proof of Residency


Proof of Citizenship
Proof of SSN

How easy is it, really, if you were a homeless person in need of a new state ID and you were in a situation where you lost your wallet or something. You would be able to directly satisfy none of the criteria to prove your SSN, Proof of Birth, or indeed Proof of Residency requirements. Unsurprisingly you can note here where the NRA lobbied (successfuly) to have Weapon Permits admissible as proof of residency. Wouldn't want to exclude gun-toting right-leaning voters from voting after all! Virtually none of that information is retrievable if you've no paper on you, not without protracted amounts of cost and bureaucratic time, which most impoverished people will not have the ability to readily pursue to participate in elections.

Too bad it’s just the ability to Vote these people will have trouble with regards ID’s, and not things like filing for unemployment, apply for welfare, get Medicaid, obtain food stamps and get Social Security. Oh what… never mind!

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Too bad it’s just the ability to Vote these people will have trouble with regards ID’s, and not things like filing for unemployment, apply for welfare, get Medicaid, obtain food stamps and get Social Security. Oh what… never mind!

Surely that just means its harder to get stolen welfare if you're illegal than you actually think.

Just how easy is it to obtain social security and food stamps if you're an illegal immigrant?

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Surely that just means its harder to get stolen welfare if you're illegal than you actually think.

Just how easy is it to obtain social security and food stamps if you're an illegal immigrant?

Pretty easy. Just pop out a kid.

newacc2015

Black Swan wrote: »

Trump is appearing everyday on national telly across the pond, unlike his Republican presidential primary rivals. Today the big Trump news was whether he wore a toupée. A 2nd story interviewed Sarah Palin, asking if she would be Trump's VP running mate. Can anyone imagine a Trump-Palin ticket November 2016? Even worse, can you imagine them winning?

Trump is the male version of a Kardashian. They have a ton of money and could retire tomorrow, but still enjoy the spotlight. You can see he is eating up the attention on the stage, where ever he speaks. Trump is most likely doing this to increase his "brand". I imagine the ratings of the apprentice will soar. His hotel bookings will improve, sells of books/other merchandise. The whole race hasnt cost him $2 million. But its has given him publicity he cant buy. Even John Stewart on HBO, has said he is only person being talked about in the race.

I dont think he stands a chance against Jeb. Jeb has the money and he could have the Latino vote eg his wife is Mexican, he converted to Catholicism. Trump has zero chance of getting votes from Latino Americans after calling them Mexicans rapists.

Amerika

I think you’re all missing the real appeal of Donald Trump. He understands voters... that when it comes to voting it actually has more to do with an ideological spectrum than a detailed political platform with some explicit policy plan. They are more looking towards leadership qualities and someone who will fight for them over some pros and cons checklist. They want their government and the people in charge to fix the bad things and get things done for the benefit of the people rather than special interests and party politics. And Trump has convinced them he will fight tooth and nail and look out for their interests first... and the hell with everything else.

MightyMandarin

newacc2015 wrote: »

Trump is the male version of a Kardashian. They have a ton of money and could retire tomorrow, but still enjoy the spotlight. You can see he is eating up the attention on the stage, where ever he speaks. Trump is most likely doing this to increase his "brand". I imagine the ratings of the apprentice will soar. His hotel bookings will improve, sells of books/other merchandise. The whole race hasnt cost him $2 million. But its has given him publicity he cant buy. Even John Stewart on HBO, has said he is only person being talked about in the race.

I dont think he stands a chance against Jeb. Jeb has the money and he could have the Latino vote eg his wife is Mexican, he converted to Catholicism. Trump has zero chance of getting votes from Latino Americans after calling them Mexicans rapists.

I assume you mean John Oliver; John Stewart just retired.

A few weeks back I gave Trump no chance, but now I'm starting to think he could cause an almighty split in the GOP; even bigger than the Tea Party divisions. True conservative Republicans are being silenced by the Koch-backed clowns who've dragged the reputation of the GOP through the mud, especially in the context of minorities.

Trump may not be receiving donations from the Kochs, and may even mock those who are, but he has the same aims as them; low taxes, lower wages, more deregulation and a smaller govt. All the anti-immigration stuff is just a ploy to appeal to the base, or else he just really dislikes Mexicans for some personal reason; either way, he's not going to profit from deporting them so I don't think they're really one of his aims.

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

I think you’re all missing the real appeal of Donald Trump. He understands voters... that when it comes to voting it actually has more to do with an ideological spectrum than a detailed political platform with some explicit policy plan. They are more looking towards leadership qualities and someone who will fight for them over some pros and cons checklist. They want their government and the people in charge to fix the bad things and get things done for the benefit of the people rather than special interests and party politics. And Trump has convinced them he will fight tooth and nail and look out for their interests first... and the hell with everything else.

Really? You think he doesn't care about his own interests?

Amerika

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Really? You think he doesn't care about his own interests?

He's not a Clinton. He's already a multi-billionaire and could put his own interests on the back burner for 4-8 years. And I believe he has already stated as such. And a lot of people believe that.

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

He's not a Clinton. He's already a multi-billionaire and could put his own interests on the back burner for 4-8 years. And I believe he has already stated as such. And a lot of people believe that.

I think you're grossly underestimating Trump. Trump is a man who consistently talks about his bank balance and success in business. He's not a charity and most certainly does not want to be seen as one. Trump will not exit the White House poorer than he came in and he most certainly will try to do things which will suit his personal wealth; lowering taxes, deregulating industries and lowering the min. wage.

MightyMandarin

Chris Christie was caught sending Govt. emails from his private account, after he and every other Republican has slaughtered Hillary for doing essentially the same thing.



http://www.wnyc.org/story/christie-sent-government-emails-private-account/?utm_source=/story/chris-christie-through-looking-glass/&utm_medium=treatment&utm_campaign=morelikethis

Amerika

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I think you're grossly underestimating Trump. Trump is a man who consistently talks about his bank balance and success in business. He's not a charity and most certainly does not want to be seen as one. Trump will not exit the White House poorer than he came in and he most certainly will try to do things which will suit his personal wealth; lowering taxes, deregulating industries and lowering the min. wage.

You mean he won't leave the White House dead broke... as someone else has claimed? :pac:

Have you seen the recent reports about the first word that people use to describe Hillary Clinton... "Liar!"

Amerika

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Chris Christie was caught sending Govt. emails from his private account, after he and every other Republican has slaughtered Hillary for doing essentially the same thing.



http://www.wnyc.org/story/christie-sent-government-emails-private-account/?utm_source=/story/chris-christie-through-looking-glass/&utm_medium=treatment&utm_campaign=morelikethis

Nowhere near "essentially the same thing."

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

You mean he won't leave the White House dead broke... as someone else has claimed? :pac:

He won't lose any money from this election, whether he wins it or not.

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

Nowhere near "essentially the same thing."

Both New Jersey and federal guidelines say government business should not be conducted over personal email accounts, which can be obscured from the public.

These are very, very similar incidents, although I know you're going to do your usual spinning or 'whataboutery'.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Nowhere near "essentially the same thing."

Oh keep burying your head, and clutching the charred remains of a teleprompter :rolleyes:

Amerika

MightyMandarin wrote: »

These are very, very similar incidents, although I know you're going to do your usual spinning or 'whataboutery'.

David Petraeus and John Deutch are better comparisons to what Hillary Clinton did, not Chris Christie.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Oh keep burying your head, and clutching the charred remains of a teleprompter :rolleyes:

Trump talked about the teleprompter, not me. So it IS current news regarding the election. Has Hillary or Bernie mentioned Palin lately? :rolleyes:

Overheal

I have no idea :P , you know I swore off the 24/7 news cycle after Sandy Hook.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

I have no idea :P , you know I swore off the 24/7 news cycle after Sandy Hook.

LOL. I'll help you out with Trump. And you won't find Hillary or Bernie talking about Palin.... just the Black Swan.

Black Swan

We were discussing Trump's business background in our locale javahouse today, and a manager from a division of a Fortune 50 corporation at the next table joined us. He managed human resources, and told us that he had recently laid-off a large number of employees to ensure that they made their quarterly numbers for corporate. Employees are one of the largest expenses in business. He's been in HR for a couple decades, and said that layoffs were a common practice in American business, where concerns for ROI (Return On Investment) was more important to managers and stockholders than concern for people (employees).

Only anecdotal coming from this one corporate HR manager, but it served to make us pause, when considering a corporate CEO for the highest US office in government.

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

LOL. I'll help you out with Trump. And you won't find Hillary or Bernie talking about Palin.... just the Black Swan.

According to Fortune: "Former Alaska governor and vice presidential hopeful Sarah Palin will interview Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump for conservative broadcasting network One America News Friday evening."

Not "just the Black Swan" ... Sarah Palin is talking Trump too. What a coincidence.

ECO_Mental

Amerika wrote: »

I also saw where he thought it would be a good idea to outlaw teleprompters in campaign speeches.

Sometimes Amerika I think you are running the longest and biggest troll in boards history and you are taking us all for idiots.

What is your big problem with teleprompters was it a childhood accident. I am sure the president makes one or two speeches a year but more than likely 100's what the big deal, give it up

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

David Petraeus and John Deutch are better comparisons to what Hillary Clinton did, not Chris Christie.

Please explain to me how Hillary's actions should be almost seen as a mortal sin, if you believe most Republicans, but Christie's actions are acceptable and totally incomparable.