2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

alaimacerc

MightyMandarin wrote: »

It's not necessarily down to Bush, but rather the entire Republican party is being ripped apart. Even now there's a war going on because of what Trump said about McCain's time in Vietnam. All the Democrats and Hillary need to do is stay quiet and let the GOP fight among itself and watch the Independents lean towards them.

This might be bad news for candidates already running to the right, as they have to either shout more loudly, or be overshadowed by Trump. But if you're trying to present yourself as a centrist, having a caricature like The Donald to set yourself against is surely a way to establish that, without being too "dangerously liberal". It just entails sounding vaguely sane.

Unless the Republican Party really is so far gone that's no longer a feasible course for getting the nomination...

MightyMandarin

K-9 wrote: »

Did he apologise about the McCain comment?

He toned it down a little bit but refused to apologise. The guy is a scumbag; I'm no supporter of McCain but to say he's not war hero is a rotten thing to say, regardless of his 5 years in a P.O.W. camp.

Interestingly, Trump was asked how he avoided the draft, particularly the mysterious 'foot problem' which doctors saw as sufficient to preclude him for serving. Needless to say he couldn't even remember which foot that had the problem. :rolleyes:

MightyMandarin

Eric Cartman wrote: »

it exists in a lot more than republican heartlands , why are you so unwilling to believe that anyone bar gun toting southerners could dislike hillary.

It doesn't. Sure there are plenty of Conservatives in 'blue states', but Hillary is not vilified by the majority of people as she is in Texas, Alabama etc. If she was, she wouldn't be polling so well.

MightyMandarin

eire4 wrote: »

It should be pointed out though that while the hispanic population is growing in the US that the white population still makes up the majority of Americans at the moment.

True, but caucasians are fast being outnumbered by them, and already there are more hispanic and black voters than caucasians, and since most black and hispanic voters tend to lean to the Democrats (based mostly on the fact that the Republicans have more racists and anti-immigration members than Democrats) the Republicans will struggle to take the White House.

alaimacerc wrote: »

This might be bad news for candidates already running to the right, as they have to either shout more loudly, or be overshadowed by Trump. But if you're trying to present yourself as a centrist, having a caricature like The Donald to set yourself against is surely a way to establish that, without being too "dangerously liberal". It just entails sounding vaguely sane.

Unless the Republican Party really is so far gone that's no longer a feasible course for getting the nomination...

Most candidates want nothing to do with him right now, and while this may signal Trump's decline, he continues to soar in the polls. Bush and the rest can distance themselves from him all they want, but when people see 'Donald Trump Republican candidate' that's all most people need to not vote for anyone running right now. All Bush and the rest can do now is gang up on him and pray that he goes away, but as long as he does well in the polls, Trump won't leave as his ego is satisfied.

Ever since the Tea Party was set up by the Kochs and Carl Rove formed, the GOP has been split right down the middle. The only way a candidate can get the nomination is by appealing to them. The problem is, most people don't think like they do (thankfully) so it's an unbelievably difficult task to 'rally the base' whilst not sounding like a clown to the rest of the population.

InTheTrees

K-9 wrote: »

Did he apologise about the McCain comment?

Oh no.

He's basically said to all military ex-POW's that they're losers.

Bear in mind that he got a special deferment from the military draft during Viet Nam because he was a student.

There's a lot of people extremely angry with him right now. This will follow him too, even once he's out of the political race.

http://www.rollingthunder1.com/

InTheTrees

Eric Cartman wrote: »

also you were coming out of a 2 term republican cluster*ck generated by bush, nobody was going to vote republican again after that mess-up. now were on the other side, people are unhappy with obamas failures and how left he leans at times.

McCain and Palin lost the election for the republicans.

The majority of republican voters would not consider the bush years as such a cluster **** that they wouldnt vote for a republican candidate again.

nokia69

MightyMandarin wrote: »

True, but caucasians are fast being outnumbered by them, and already there are more hispanic and black voters than caucasians, and since most black and hispanic voters tend to lean to the Democrats (based mostly on the fact that the Republicans have more racists and anti-immigration members than Democrats) the Republicans will struggle to take the White House.

thats a little simplistic, an anti illegal immigration candidate could in theory take a large number of black and white working class votes, all types of immigration is great for the rich but bad for the poor

BTW Trump has said many times he has no problem with legal immigration

nokia69

InTheTrees wrote: »

McCain and Palin lost the election for the republicans.

The majority of republican voters would not consider the bush years as such a cluster **** that they wouldnt vote for a republican candidate again.

Bush if he get the nomination would of course get the majority of republicans to turn out for him, but thats to be expected, elections are won and lost on the margins, if even a small number stay away Bush would be in trouble IMO

I think Bush needs Hillary on the other side to get his maximum vote out

nokia69

MightyMandarin wrote: »

He still said that Mexico sends rapists to America. He's still a racist.

I don't think that makes him a racist

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump speaks for a constituency that lives across the border from the cartels. These people are loud and arrogant having already obstructed President Obama's immigration policy. They already contribute generously to the coffers of Washington politics. Alienate these people at your peril.

New Mexico and Arizona have only 16 electoral votes between them. Texas has 38.

Not a huge threat even if they go red which AZ and TX already are. Even if you expand it to include NV, OK and CO it doesnt add many more.

Maybe the new Supreme court decision on gerrymandering will fix some of the egregious misuse of redistricting in that state.

MightyMandarin

nokia69 wrote: »

I don't think that makes him a racist

Thinking that all Mexican immigrants are not 'their best', but actually are 'rapists' or criminals, drug dealers etc. is racist. Sure there are plenty of criminals among the immigrants, but the vast majority of them are poor and just want a better life. To 'paint them with the same brush' like he does is racist.

nokia69

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Thinking that all Mexican immigrants are not 'their best', but actually are 'rapists' or criminals, drug dealers etc. is racist. Sure there are plenty of criminals among the immigrants, but the vast majority of them are poor and just want a better life. To 'paint them with the same brush' like he does is racist.

he has said plenty of times that not all Mexicans are criminals and he has also said that most of them work hard and just want a better life

MightyMandarin

nokia69 wrote: »

he has said plenty of times that not all Mexicans are criminals and he has also said that most of them work hard and just want a better life

Where? He hasn't said anything like that in the past few weeks

nokia69

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Where? He hasn't said anything like that in the past few weeks

about 8 minutes in he talks about it, 10 minutes in he says he loves Mexicans, its sounds to me like he has no problem with legal immigration

MightyMandarin

nokia69 wrote: »

about 8 minutes in he talks about it, 10 minutes in he says he loves Mexicans, its sounds to me like he has no problem with legal immigration

At no point between 8:00 to 10:00 does he say that most Mexicans are here to work, want a better life etc. All he talks about is a wall, dirty Mexican criminals, Mexico sending bad people, and when Cooper asks about a path to citizenship he says that 'the most we would be talking about is legal', meaning that he doesn't even support a path to citizenship for the Mexicans already living there.

And saying that he 'loves Mexicans' is meaningless. If he's going to make racist statements about Mexican immigrants, irrespective of their legal status, shows that he does not love them at all.

Overheal

its all just a bunch of backpedaling; its also just going to confuse voters trying to tune in during the wake of what he originally said. Just all part of the show.

nokia69

MightyMandarin wrote: »

At no point between 8:00 to 10:00 does he say that most Mexicans are here to work, want a better life etc. All he talks about is a wall, dirty Mexican criminals, Mexico sending bad people, and when Cooper asks about a path to citizenship he says that 'the most we would be talking about is legal', meaning that he doesn't even support a path to citizenship for the Mexicans already living there.

And saying that he 'loves Mexicans' is meaningless. If he's going to make racist statements about Mexican immigrants, irrespective of their legal status, shows that he does not love them at all.

its still not racist

its a fact that some Mexicans commit serious crimes and wanting to end illegal immigration is not racist

InTheTrees

nokia69 wrote: »

its a fact that some Mexicans commit serious crimes and wanting to end illegal immigration is not racist

He's also referring to any Hispanic as a "Mexican" when they're actually coming from all over Latin America and coming thru Mexico.

K-9

InTheTrees wrote: »

Oh no.

He's basically said to all military ex-POW's that they're losers.

Bear in mind that he got a special deferment from the military draft during Viet Nam because he was a student.

There's a lot of people extremely angry with him right now. This will follow him too, even once he's out of the political race.

http://www.rollingthunder1.com/

The debates will be fun then! Alienating troops is not a recommended way to go in America.

Spending 5 years in a POW camp is hardly a holiday.

ECO_Mental

Amerika wrote: »

And that is because of this lousy deal, who only benefits Iran and greedy European countries who put a greater value on gold over security IMO. And you are correct not every American is conservative, loves guns etc. But we do tend to stand together when it comes to security. And not many like this Iranian deal.


I disagree about Trump. And the majority of the US has no interest in looking a little more like a European country IMO.

I can't take credit for the following, but it rings true for many Americans, and what is helping his popularity with Republicans, Democrats and Independents. Reasons why Trump would make a good president...



Trump gets it. The other candidates who have a greater chance of winning, better get it also.

Do you think Trump still "gets it" and would make a "good president" its was shameful what he said about mcain.. The man was tortured for five years and he basically called him a loser for getting captured. Explain that one?

I think you said recently that you think Obama doesn't like America much but have you ever seen a president "even Obama" who doesn't like America ever call one of your military a loser because they got captured even when they put their lives on the line.

This is really shameful stuff.......

nokia69

InTheTrees wrote: »

He's also referring to any Hispanic as a "Mexican" when they're actually coming from all over Latin America and coming thru Mexico.

no he's not, he has made the point that its not just Mexicans crossing the boarder, its people from Latin America and who knows how many other countries

I think you're reading partial quotes of what he says

InTheTrees

nokia69 wrote: »

I think you're reading partial quotes of what he says

ha ha ha!

There's a strain of bigotry here that refers to all Hispanics as "mexicans" so I;d assumed trump was in that group.

So it turns out he actually does have a specific gripe with mexicans in particular then?

:eek:

nokia69

InTheTrees wrote: »

ha ha ha!

There's a strain of bigotry here that refers to all Hispanics as "mexicans" so I;d assumed trump was in that group.

So it turns out he actually does have a specific gripe with mexicans in particular then?

:eek:

I don't think so, his gripe seems be be illegal immigration

Brian?

nokia69 wrote: »

I don't think so, his gripe seems be be illegal immigration

Well that's among his gripes. He has gripes with POWs, other GOP members, Democrats, the EPA and the Chinese. That's a lot of gripes for one man.

I find his comments about John McCain particularly disgusting.

MightyMandarin

Brian? wrote: »

Well that's among his gripes. He has gripes with POWs, other GOP members, Democrats, the EPA and the Chinese. That's a lot of gripes for one man.

I find his comments about John McCain particularly disgusting.

I remember he was also part of the 'birther' movement a while back trying to get Obama out of the White House because his birth cert was 'faked' and he 'wasn't actually American born'.

More money than sense comes to mind whenever I think of Trump.

nokia69

Brian? wrote: »

Well that's among his gripes. He has gripes with POWs, other GOP members, Democrats, the EPA and the Chinese. That's a lot of gripes for one man.

I find his comments about John McCain particularly disgusting.

but its working, since the McCain gaff he is still rising in the polls

what he has to say is popular with a large % of GOP voters

Overheal

nokia69 wrote: »

but its working, since the McCain gaff he is still rising in the polls

what he has to say is popular with a large % of GOP voters

No - what he's saying is trending. There is a difference.

nokia69

Overheal wrote: »

No - what he's saying is trending. There is a difference.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/248556-poll-donald-trump-takes-considerable-lead-over-gop-presidential-field

Donald Trump is soaring over his GOP rivals in a new nationwide Washington Post/ABC News poll conducted amid his controversial comments about Sen. John McCain’s (R-Ariz.) “war hero” status.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/poll-trump-surges-to-big-lead-in-gop-presidential-race/2015/07/20/efd2e0d0-2ef8-11e5-8f36-18d1d501920d_story.html

Businessman Donald Trump surged into the lead for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination, with almost twice the support of his closest rival, just as he ignited a new controversy after making disparaging remarks about Sen. John McCain’s

looks to me like the Donald is winning

Overheal

:rolleyes: well now he just needs to hold that for 476 days...

nokia69

Overheal wrote: »

:rolleyes: well now he just needs to hold that for 476 days...

yep

very very long way to go

but for now he is winning, not just trending :rolleyes: