2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Black Swan · 22-10-2014 12:58am

Amerika wrote: »

Odd poll IMO. Seems little more than a name recognition popularity contest.

That's how Republicans Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ronald Reagan won Governor of California (largest GDP and population state in US) with little or no prior government experience. Both were Hollywood film celebrities of heroic fictional proportions with "name recognition popularity."

Amerika wrote: »

And why in the world wouldn’t Mitt Romney be on the poll?

Although I do not personally favour Romney for US president, I found this odd too for a GOP poll. So I included him in my list as a possible Republican candidate for 2016.

Brian? · 23-10-2014 12:41pm

What happened to Bobby Jindal?

Black Swan · 23-10-2014 1:02pm

Brian? wrote: »

What happened to Bobby Jindal?

According to Bobby Jindal Louisiana Governor:
"If I were to stay in politics it would involve the 2016 running for president. There's no other elective office I would seek," Tuesday (21 October 2014).

Amerika · 27-10-2014 3:48pm

News is coming out that Jeb Bush might become a contender soon. If Bush throws his hat in the ring, I doubt Romney would consider another run at it. Looks like our choices for POTUS might just end up being another Clinton or another Bush.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article3386681.html

Brian? · 27-10-2014 6:09pm

Amerika wrote: »

News is coming out that Jeb Bush might become a contender soon. If Bush throws his hat in the ring, I doubt Romney would consider another run at it. Looks like our choices for POTUS might just end up being another Clinton or another Bush.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article3386681.html

2 years ago I predicted this and you laughed at me.

Black Swan · 27-10-2014 6:57pm

Amerika wrote: »

News is coming out that Jeb Bush might become a contender soon. If Bush throws his hat in the ring, I doubt Romney would consider another run at it. Looks like our choices for POTUS might just end up being another Clinton or another Bush.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article3386681.html

Brian? wrote: »

2 years ago I predicted this and you laughed at me.

I agree with you both that if Jeb Bush runs, Mitt Romney will not. Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton as contenders for the GOP and Democratic nominations should make for a real mud slinging race, and that's my prediction (the mud slinging part if these 2 go face to face).

Amerika · 27-10-2014 7:59pm

Brian? wrote: »

2 years ago I predicted this and you laughed at me.

You did? For some reason I remember thinking you had claimed Joe Biden would be the Democrat candidate?

edit: Opps... I see you were referring to Jeb Bush. So perhaps I did, thinking it was too soon after brother George. But didn't factor in the possibility of Obama screwing up his second term so badly and making Democrats look so bad.

Black Swan · 27-10-2014 8:03pm

Amerika wrote: »

You did? For some reason I remember thinking you had claimed Joe Biden would be the Democrat candidate?

Biden will not run against H Clinton. Barring a heart attack, I do not believe that the Bush Family Dynasty can beat the Clinton Machine in 2016. In any case, Chris Christie might get the GOP nomination, but who knows? The official race probably won't begin until January, although after 7 November it will unofficially.

Brian? · 27-10-2014 8:48pm

Amerika wrote: »

You did? For some reason I remember thinking you had claimed Joe Biden would be the Democrat candidate?

edit: Opps... I see you were referring to Jeb Bush. So perhaps I did, thinking it was too soon after brother George. But didn't factor in the possibility of Obama screwing up his second term so badly and making Democrats look so bad.

I predicted Biden v Bush.

Looks like Biden's a non runner at this stage. Which is a terrible pity, Biden's debate performance in 2012 was solid gold.

Black Swan · 27-10-2014 9:08pm

Brian? wrote: »

I predicted Biden v Bush.

Looks like Biden's a non runner at this stage. Which is a terrible pity, Biden's debate performance in 2012 was solid gold.

Was Biden in the House during Watergate? If so, was he one of the main congressmen during the congressional investigations that drove former (Republican) president Richard Nixon to resign?

Hold the Cheez Whiz · 27-10-2014 9:17pm

Brian? wrote: »

I predicted Biden v Bush.

Looks like Biden's a non runner at this stage. Which is a terrible pity, Biden's debate performance in 2012 was solid gold.

I don't know why, but "Joe Biden" and "solid gold" in the same sentence remind me of this: http://www.theonion.com/articles/shirtless-biden-washes-trans-am-in-white-house-dri,2718/

Sorry!

Black Swan · 27-10-2014 9:42pm

Hold the Cheez Whiz wrote: »

I don't know why, but "Joe Biden" and "solid gold" in the same sentence remind me of this: http://www.theonion.com/articles/shirtless-biden-washes-trans-am-in-white-house-dri,2718/

Sorry!

Now I have this mental image of Biden running shirtless in the Democrat's 2016 primary. Thanks Hold the Cheez Whiz... :pac:

eire4 · 27-10-2014 9:50pm

Brian? wrote: »

I predicted Biden v Bush.

Looks like Biden's a non runner at this stage. Which is a terrible pity, Biden's debate performance in 2012 was solid gold.

It would be a pity if Clinton was to just waltz into the Democratic nomination without any opposition. But right now I am not seeing anybody that seems willing to take her one on the Democratic side.

eire4 · 27-10-2014 9:55pm

Amerika wrote: »

You did? For some reason I remember thinking you had claimed Joe Biden would be the Democrat candidate?

edit: Opps... I see you were referring to Jeb Bush. So perhaps I did, thinking it was too soon after brother George. But didn't factor in the possibility of Obama screwing up his second term so badly and making Democrats look so bad.

How exactly did Obama screw up his second term so badly?

For me I am not a fan as he as refused to cut the military budget which has got out of control since 9/11. He has ratched up a massive spying problem which tears up American citizens right to privacy. He has continued to take a highly militarized approach to foreign policy and has gone after whitsleblowers at a scary rate and his threatment of the principle of freedom of the press is alarming to say the least. Those would be some of my specific reasons why I feel Obama's second term has been so bad to this point in terms of where I would point the finger of blame at Obama.

Brian? · 27-10-2014 10:10pm

Hold the Cheez Whiz wrote: »

I don't know why, but "Joe Biden" and "solid gold" in the same sentence remind me of this: http://www.theonion.com/articles/shirtless-biden-washes-trans-am-in-white-house-dri,2718/

Sorry!

The brilliance of the Onion's portrayal of Biden is the slight element of truth.

Black Swan · 27-10-2014 10:22pm

eire4 wrote: »

How exactly did Obama screw up his second term so badly?

He pretty much copied RomneyCare with ObamaCare and sold out to the private-sector-for-profit medical insurance corporations, broke his promise to close Gitmo, doubled the fed deficit just like the presidential administrations beginning with Republican president Reagan, and appears that he may reinvest boots-on-the-ground continuing GW's Bush's 2nd Persian Gulf War (Iraq II the sequel) with his war on ISIS.

eire4 wrote: »

...he as refused to cut the military budget which has got out of control since 9/11.

Generally, most past presidential administrations haven't cut the Military-Industrial-Complex budget since Dwight Eisenhower.

eire4 wrote: »

He has ratched up a massive spying problem which tears up American citizens right to privacy.

Yes, this is a No Such Agency expansion greatly fueled by the 911 scare tactics of the GW Bush administration and the Congressional PATRIOT Act. I had someone the other day challenge this criticism, claiming that "If you were doing nothing wrong, why should you complain?" I asked if he was doing anything wrong in his bedroom, and if not, he should not complain if I put a cam in there and watched them, ha!

I would like to see John Thune of South Dakota run, but he is sitting out 2016. I believe that he is one of the very few Senators that has not yet become corrupted. Then again... give him time and exposure to his colleagues...

Hold the Cheez Whiz · 27-10-2014 11:58pm

Brian? wrote: »

The brilliance of the Onion's portrayal of Biden is the slight element of truth.

Absolutely. :pac:

Black Swan · 28-10-2014 12:18am

Joe Biden provides comic relief from the otherwise all too serious (and boring) Obama administration.

Brian? · 28-10-2014 9:40am

Hold the Cheez Whiz wrote: »

Absolutely. :pac:

Why wouldn't you want him as POTUS?

Brian? · 28-10-2014 9:42am

Black Swan wrote: »

Joe Biden provides comic relief from the otherwise all too serious (and boring) Obama administration.

That is true. In all seriousness though, he's a very intelligent man and an extremely effective VP. I'm disappointed he's not even going to try a run at 2016.

Black Swan · 28-10-2014 2:12pm

Very early polls collected by RCP all show Hillary Clinton beating Jeb Bush by a comfortable margin in most cases. RCP average Clinton +9.9 lead.

Note: Caution should be exercised when interpreting this polling data, especially given that it's not tracking yet (not longitudinal), and it's over 2 years off from the November 2016 election (a long shot).

eire4 · 28-10-2014 5:18pm

Black Swan wrote: »

He pretty much copied RomneyCare with ObamaCare and sold out to the private-sector-for-profit medical insurance corporations, broke his promise to close Gitmo, doubled the fed deficit just like the presidential administrations beginning with Republican president Reagan, and appears that he may reinvest boots-on-the-ground continuing GW's Bush's 2nd Persian Gulf War (Iraq II the sequel) with his war on ISIS.

Generally, most past presidential administrations haven't cut the Military-Industrial-Complex budget since Dwight Eisenhower.

Yes, this is a No Such Agency expansion greatly fueled by the 911 scare tactics of the GW Bush administration and the Congressional PATRIOT Act. I had someone the other day challenge this criticism, claiming that "If you were doing nothing wrong, why should you complain?" I asked if he was doing anything wrong in his bedroom, and if not, he should not complain if I put a cam in there and watched them, ha!

I would like to see John Thune of South Dakota run, but he is sitting out 2016. I believe that he is one of the very few Senators that has not yet become corrupted. Then again... give him time and exposure to his colleagues...

I completely agree with you on his all sell out to private health companies and all but copying of and introduction of Romney's health plan. What was particuarly disappointing is he never even made an effort for a single payer system. The for profit health system in operation in the US is one of the most broken parts of how the US currently operates so his slight improvements really are a mere papering over of the massive faultlines that underlay the health system in the US.

You are right also about the continued growth of the military budget and all the private corporations involved as well often called the militray industrial complex. This has been on a dangerous upward trend since FDR. Since 9/11 military spending has grown from 3.1% of GDP to 4.8%. In reality the real figure is even worse as the bloated military budget has gone hand in hand with the massive expansion in spying and covert operations that have all but turned the US into Orwell's 1984.
The classic but I have done nothing wrong so completely misses the point. Most of this spying on US citizens is done by contracted private companies. Thus various private citizens have unlimited ability to go after individual citizens. All it takes is an employee with an agenda to destroy a persons life or at least cause him serious difficulties.
History teaches us that when you give someone this much power especially with little or no oversight they will abuse that power. The only question is how badly. It is also similar to how many local US police forces have been militarized. If you give someone these tools they will use them whether they need to or not. The idea of but I have done nothing wrong misses the point and reminds me of the famous Martin Niemoller quote:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Black Swan · 29-10-2014 12:25pm

During the 2012 campaign we heard Republicans attacking ObamaCare, conveniently ignoring that it had been largely developed from Mitt Romney's RomneyCare. I wonder what "doublethink" in campaign speeches, ads, and debates will occur in the next 2 years leading up to the 2016 presidentials by both Democrats and Republicans? In any case, 2015 and 2016 promises to be dirty campaign years by both.

Amerika · 29-10-2014 2:38pm

Mitt Romney appears to be running around the country pushing an “I told you so!” campaign. And appearances are it is coming across to many voters with a rounding success. I guess it helps that Mitt was pretty much right about everything (IMO).

Black Swan · 29-10-2014 10:00pm

Amerika wrote: »

Mitt Romney appears to be running around the country pushing an “I told you so!” campaign. And appearances are it is coming across to many voters with a rounding success. I guess it helps that Mitt was pretty much right about everything (IMO).

Was he right about RomneyCare?

Amerika · 30-10-2014 8:16pm

Black Swan wrote: »

Was he right about RomneyCare?

Again? As I recall, Romney said that “Romneycare” would now work for the rest of the country. MA wanted this form of healthcare, it’s population was considered more affluent than the rest of the country, and had very few residents without insurance therefore the model worked for MA, but wouldn’t for most of the rest of the country. So, yeah, I guess he was.

eire4 · 30-10-2014 8:18pm

Amerika wrote: »

Mitt Romney appears to be running around the country pushing an “I told you so!” campaign. And appearances are it is coming across to many voters with a rounding success. I guess it helps that Mitt was pretty much right about everything (IMO).

what exactly was he in your opinion was he right about?

Black Swan · 31-10-2014 5:46am

Amerika wrote: »

Again? As I recall, Romney said that “Romneycare” would now work for the rest of the country. MA wanted this form of healthcare, it’s population was considered more affluent than the rest of the country, and had very few residents without insurance therefore the model worked for MA, but wouldn’t for most of the rest of the country. So, yeah, I guess he was.

Apparently RomneyCare is also failing in MA, and is just as dysfunctional as ObamaCare:

RomneyCare’s pioneering health insurance exchange is headed for the scrap heap.

Bay State officials are taking steps this week to junk central parts of their dysfunctional health insurance exchange — the model for President Barack Obama’s health care law

How can you criticise ObamaCare without also criticising RomneyCare? ObamaCare was modeled from RomneyCare. Both are too expensive, dysfunctional, punish citizens if they do not enroll, and ultimately benefit private-sector-for-profit medical insurance corporations. For Republicans to champion Mitt Romney for 2016, while at the same time attacking ObamaCare is a contradiction that appeals to partisan politics, not reason. This reminds me of George Orwell's doublethink.

Black Swan · 31-10-2014 7:20pm

“Sit down and shut up!” Republican NJ Governor Chris Christie yelled at a recent heckler, which is now giving him press backlash as being unpresidential.

eire4 · 31-10-2014 11:26pm

Black Swan wrote: »

“Sit down and shut up!” Republican NJ Governor Chris Christie yelled at a recent heckler, which is now giving him press backlash as being unpresidential.

Whether he runs in 2016 for president or not I have no idea. But a public gaff like that will be red meat no doubt for anybody running against him if he does indeed run. The Bridge scandal and the poor state of the New Jersey economy certainly do not help his cause either.

2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

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