2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Overheal

Colin Powell, Republican, also admitting to use of private server email that was never submitted to the Justice Dept.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/03/11/two-names-the-press-omits-from-email-coverage-c/202847

Amerika wrote: »

Do you know if any of those 22 million RECOVERED emails contained Classified and Top Secret information vital to national security? Because that's what we're really talking about, not some deflection you're trying to introduce.

I don't! That's the joke!

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Colin Powell, Republican, also admitting to use of private server email that was never submitted to the Justice Dept.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/03/11/two-names-the-press-omits-from-email-coverage-c/202847

I don't! That's the joke!

So it's an apple and oranges type of thing then.

Overheal

2009: "the Bush White House, which initially denied that any e-mails had gone missing, announced in January it had located more than 22 million messages that had been mislabeled after a search by computer technicians, according to court records filed by the government on the day after Bush left office."

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/issa-blamed-ibm-software-loss-22-million

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

So it's an apple and oranges type of thing then.

No, at least not in the way you'd like to think. The difference between the 2 is one of them involved dozens of RNC personnel and destruction of evidence during critical investigations into Plame/Libby/etc. and one involved a Democrat.

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

Nixon was not impeached.

According to Time regarding President Richard Nixon (Republican):

the House Judiciary Committee went through with it, passing one article of impeachment against Nixon on July 27, 1974. The issue would have then moved to the full House of Representatives, where it had been likely to pass and continue on to the Senate, which had the power to remove Nixon from office. None of that happened, of course. Nixon resigned before it could.

Black Swan

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Hilliary is a variant of Hilary (Latin): from the same root as "hilarious."

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

According to Time regarding President Richard Nixon (Republican):

Correct... He was not impeached

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

2009: "the Bush White House, which initially denied that any e-mails had gone missing, announced in January it had located more than 22 million messages that had been mislabeled after a search by computer technicians, according to court records filed by the government on the day after Bush left office."

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/issa-blamed-ibm-software-loss-22-million

You're still spinning. She could and should be in serious trouble if she played loose footsie with classified and top secret info that could have affected national security.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Correct... He was not impeached

Amerika wrote: »

Your still spinning.

:rolleyes:

She could and should be in serious trouble if she played loose footsie with classified and top secret info that could have affected national security.

OK. I'm just asking where the pitchforks were when a Republican administration did worse?

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

:rolleyes:OK. I'm just asking where the pitchforks were when a Republican administration did worse?

They were there. You do remember there was a democrat controlled Congress (both the House and Senate) out for blood at the time.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

They were there. You do remember there was a democrat controlled Congress (both the House and Senate) out for blood at the time.

And a media that didn't care. Where was the Fair and Balanced Fox News rage machine then?


Chris Christie forgot the details of his own Deleted-Text scandal (namely, that they deleted text messages that may have been pertinent to the investigation of "Bridge-gate") and tried to use his scandal as a lantern to shine against the Hillary Email scandal:

http://gizmodo.com/uh-did-chris-christie-forget-about-the-time-he-deleted-1724791857

This comparison is bizarre. It’s bad politics for Christie to voluntarily draw attention to “the bridge investigation”—aka Bridgegate—aka the time Christie’s team deliberately caused a traffic jam for political gain. It’s one of the most flagrant embarrassments of his career. It’d make more sense if Christie never even uttered the word “bridge” again, but aside from that, arguing that he’d be pilloried for deleting digital communications related to Bridgegate is a weirdo move for Christie because his team did delete digital communications related to Bridgegate.

Christie and a top aide deleted 12 text messages exchanged on the day of a legislative hearing into the bridge—the beginning of an investigation that yielded resignations from his staff, indictments of government officials close to Christie, and a guilty plea from a Port Authority ally.

After initially insisting he didn’t know if the aide— his current chief-of-staff Regina Ega— had ever sent him a text message, this is how the governor responded to questions about the fishy missing texts: “If it was of any moment or import I would have remembered it.”

Sounds an awful lot like “trust me none of it had to do with the bridge,” no?

He also says,

“Can you imagine, if after the bridge investigation began, I came out and said ‘Oh, I’ve done all my business as governor on a private email server. And, I’ve deleted now 30,000 of those emails. But trust me none of it had to do with the bridge.’ Give me a break”

Which is kinda like what happened with Jeb Bush's emails...

Jeb Bush used his private e-mail account as Florida governor to discuss security and military issues such as troop deployments to the Middle East and the protection of nuclear plants, according to a review of publicly released records.

The e-mails include two series of exchanges involving details of Florida National Guard troop deployments after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the review by The Washington Post found.

HEY! NATIONAL SECURITY ON A PRIVATE EMAIL SERVER!


What about deleting emails and personally choosing what emails are 'personal' and not handed over to authoritative bodies?

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, a likely Republican presidential candidate, primarily used a personal email account on his own computer server when he was in office from 1999 to 2007. In December, he posted online hundreds of thousands of emails from both the private and government accounts. Mr. Bush’s spokeswoman said that emails from the private account unrelated to government business weren’t turned over to the state or preserved. […]

But much like with Mrs. Clinton, the decision over which emails should be considered official and which remain private was made by Mr. Bush. It is unclear how many emails Mr. Bush withheld because he deemed them unrelated to state business.

Do you still assert that this is Apples and Oranges? That this never happened under a Republican? That Hillary is somehow the only special flower that ever threatened national security (if she at all did, the investigation is ongoing)? Let's get real.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

And a media that didn't care. Where was the Fair and Balanced Fox News rage machine then?

Okay, doesn't seem like you can stay on topic so here goes... I recall Fox News was reporting on the arrest and sentencing of Lewis "Scooter" Libby at the time for his involvement in the matter. So do you think the same should happen to Hillary Clinton?

Chris Christie forgot the details of his own Deleted-Text scandal (namely, that they deleted text messages that may have been pertinent to the investigation of "Bridge-gate") and tried to use his scandal as a lantern to shine against the Hillary Email scandal:

http://gizmodo.com/uh-did-chris-christie-forget-about-the-time-he-deleted-1724791857

Again with the deflections. There was a major investigation into Christie and the Bridgegate thing initiated by the Democrats. He was declared innocent of all wrong doing as I recall.

Which is kinda like what happened with Jeb Bush's emails...

HEY! NATIONAL SECURITY ON A PRIVATE EMAIL SERVER!

What about deleting emails and personally choosing what emails are 'personal' and not handed over to authoritative bodies?

Do you still assert that this is Apples and Oranges? That this never happened under a Republican? That Hillary is somehow the only special flower that ever threatened national security (if she at all did, the investigation is ongoing)? Let's get real.

I believe Jeb followed the law in regard to the deleted emails and personally choosing of the emails to hand over. You can't say the same for Hillary Clinton, now can you?

Overheal

I recall Fox News was reporting on the arrest and sentencing of Lewis "Scooter" Libby at the time for his involvement in the matter. So do you think the same should happen to Hillary Clinton?

Oh I never said they never reported on such things, they just had a whole "but who really cares?" attitude about it.

There was a major investigation into Christie and the Bridgegate thing initiated by the Democrats. He was declared innocent of all wrong doing as I recall.

That might have something to do with 12 missing text messages.

I believe Jeb followed the law in regard to the deleted emails and personally choosing of the emails to hand over. You can't say the same for Hillary Clinton, now can you?

I can't make that claim, won't make that claim. Will make the claim that Republicans too have no problem about discussing national security through non-official channels, and have been found to withhold texts, emails, etc.

Not trying to dismiss the Hillary Scandal, just giving it some non-partisan perspective before people make her out to be some sort of unprecedentedly crooked politician for her use of a private email address.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Not nothing, but certainly not much. Presumably the files were under rather obscene encryption.

Color me skeptical, but a mom&pop shop, which housed Clinton’s servers and some of our countries top secrets, in the bathroom closet probably might not be utilizing obscene encryption. :rolleyes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3201367/Hillary-s-email-firm-run-loft-apartment-servers-BATHROOM-raising-new-questions-security-sensitive-messages-held.html

Hell, if Hillary wins the presidency, we might as well ship the nuclear football via FedEx to Putin and have that Reset Button display the launch codes, so she can dedicate her time to singing Kumbaya over national radio.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Color me skeptical, but a mom&pop shop, which housed Clinton’s servers and some of our countries top secrets, in the bathroom closet probably might not be utilizing obscene encryption.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3201367/Hillary-s-email-firm-run-loft-apartment-servers-BATHROOM-raising-new-questions-security-sensitive-messages-held.html

That's a non-sequitir: the information itself was more than likely encrypted before it was handed over to the lawyer, no? Nobody was asking the lawyer to Truecrypt it or anything.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

That's a non-sequitir: the information itself was more than likely encrypted before it was handed over to the lawyer, no? Nobody was asking the lawyer to Truecrypt it or anything.

Non sequitir? Her lawyer should never have gotten the thumb drive with top secrets on it in the first place.

Overheal

Lawyers, the Press, the RNC, the DNC, its all the same isn't it. I'd love if nobody ****ed around with sensitive data at all right? But it's just her lawyer: and if the drive is encrypted and Hillary doesn't want them to open it, like you said it's a Mom and Pop, not some Chinese Government crack/hacking farm. Not the part of the story that would be upsetting me at all, tbh. Worse people have done worse, if it breaks the law it breaks the law, but being outraged or anything is kinda hypocritical.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Lawyers, the Press, the RNC, the DNC, its all the same isn't it. I'd love if nobody ****ed around with sensitive data at all right? But it's just her lawyer: and if the drive is encrypted and Hillary doesn't want them to open it, like you said it's a Mom and Pop, not some Chinese Government crack/hacking farm. Not the part of the story that would be upsetting me at all, tbh. Worse people have done worse, if it breaks the law it breaks the law, but being outraged or anything is kinda hypocritical.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Woulda-Coulda-Shoulda… the battle cry of every criminal.

And "Just her lawyer????" Perhaps we should issue top level security clearances as prizes in Cracker Jack boxes next, well only if they're democrat supporters, that is.

I believe the FBI is in fact looking into whether some Chinese Government crack/hacking farm was able to wangle their way into this Mom and Pop Server Shop and steal Top Secret data because of Hillary’s paranoia and loosey goosey attitude towards our national security.

ECO_Mental

My opinion is that the GOP are chasing every single rabbit hole they think they can find hoping to find some smoking gun on Hillary. They will rummage and rummage until they find something and will not give up until they do.

Problem is the GOP cannot win. They have alienated vast swathes of the US voter base.

Gay vote: Against gay marriage etc
Black vote: Voter registration etc
Hispanic vote: Deport them all build a wall
Women's vote: Totally against women's choice
Poor vote: Its your fault get a job.

If I were in any of those groups I don't know how I could vote GOP, and that's a lot of the electorate to upset.

I don't like Tony Blair but he said something the other week that describes the GOP. He said after Thatcher won by a landslide in the 80s a couple of times the Labour party assumed that the reason they lost was because they weren't socialist enough not that they were "too socialist"

Now the GOP think they aren't too right wing they need to double down on they right wing stuff at the cost of pissing off the rest of the population.

Keep it going lads....

Manach

So the only way the Republicans win, is to become Democrat-lite and perhaps then then GOP is only demonised & piliored only less slightly on behalf of the vast swathes of interests groups that the Democrats cater to. Right.

ECO_Mental

Manach wrote: »

So the only way the Republicans win, is to become Democrat-lite and perhaps then then GOP is only demonised & piliored only less slightly on behalf of the vast swathes of interests groups that the Democrats cater to. Right.

Yes,

Thing is that when the black and Hispanic vote starts coming out in any sort of numbers the GOP are gone. Unless they start changing their tune and stop painting all the Hispanics as rapist and drug dealers that need to be deported they won't win any more.

MightyMandarin

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Yes,

Thing is that when the black and Hispanic vote starts coming out in any sort of numbers the GOP are gone. Unless they start changing their tune and stop painting all the Hispanics as rapist and drug dealers that need to be deported they won't win any more.

To be fair to the GOP, it's only Trump who's said nonsense like that. It's clear that the majority of GOP candidates wouldn't benefit the lives of illegal immigrants or most of the legal ones, but none of them have made outrageous statements like Trump has, and all of them condemned him afterwards.

I think Rubio will attract a good portion of Hispanics, but whether he gets the nomination remains to be seen.

johnnyskeleton

Amerika wrote: »

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Woulda-Coulda-Shoulda… the battle cry of every criminal.

And "Just her lawyer????" Perhaps we should issue top level security clearances as prizes in Cracker Jack boxes next, well only if they're democrat supporters, that is.

Mod note:

Ok folks, time to town it down a bit!

Amerika

ECO_Mental wrote: »

My opinion is that the GOP are chasing every single rabbit hole they think they can find hoping to find some smoking gun on Hillary. They will rummage and rummage until they find something and will not give up until they do.

I find it rather amusing that I only hear this type of thing when democrats get caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

Black Swan

MightyMandarin wrote: »

To be fair to the GOP, it's only Trump who's said nonsense like that.

When the GOP has no clear leader for its party today, only a race of 15 (or more) candidates with Trump showing a substantial lead in polls, he appears to be the Republican de facto leader. So when Trump speaks, rightly or wrongly, many assume he reflects the largest block of Republican sentiments and political positions. For example, the latest CNN/ORC poll 18 August 2015 after the most recent GOP primary debates: Trump 24%, Bush 13%, Carson 9%, Walker 8%, Rubio 8%, Cruz 5%. Two days earlier, in the Fox news poll (16 August 2015), Trump continues to trump his opponents: Trump 25%, Carson 12%, Cruz 10%, Bush 9%, etc. Given that Fox is often attributed as the Republican news media voice, this poll may be more meaningful than others.

Telly billionaire entertainer Trump significantly leads the GOP today, and appears more in the national news than all his Republican opponents combined, so it's no wonder that Hispanic voters may vote Democratic, or if registered Republicans cross-over or stay at home on election day, especially after the largest Hispanic telly network dropped him when he slurred Mexican immigrants in his famous or infamous quoted statement.

MightyMandarin

Black Swan wrote: »

When the GOP has no clear leader for its party today, only a race of 15 (or more) candidates with Trump showing a substantial lead in polls, he appears to be the Republican de facto leader. So when Trump speaks, rightly or wrongly, many assume he reflects the largest block of Republican sentiments and political positions. For example, the latest CNN/ORC poll 18 August 2015 after the most recent GOP primary debates: Trump 24%, Bush 13%, Carson 9%, Walker 8%, Rubio 8%, Cruz 5%. Two days earlier, in the Fox news poll (16 August 2015), Trump continues to trump his opponents: Trump 25%, Carson 12%, Cruz 10%, Bush 9%, etc. Given that Fox is often attributed as the Republican news media voice, this poll may be more meaningful than others.

Telly billionaire entertainer Trump significantly leads the GOP today, and appears more in the national news than all his Republican opponents combined, so it's no wonder that Hispanic voters may vote Democratic, or if registered Republicans cross-over or stay at home on election day, especially after the largest Hispanic telly network dropped him when he slurred Mexican immigrants in his famous or infamous quoted statement.

Oh I'm not denying the perception that Trump is reflective of the majority of Republicans, and I can see the Democrats pummeling them if Trump is on the ticket in 2016. I just think it's unfair to portray Bush et al. as racist, Hispanic-hating fools.

ECO_Mental

MightyMandarin wrote: »

To be fair to the GOP, it's only Trump who's said nonsense like that. It's clear that the majority of GOP candidates wouldn't benefit the lives of illegal immigrants or most of the legal ones, but none of them have made outrageous statements like Trump has, and all of them condemned him afterwards.

I think Rubio will attract a good portion of Hispanics, but whether he gets the nomination remains to be seen.

Trump is on the GOP ticket atm, so what he says paints all the others. To get the nomination they all have to appease the caucus which are in the majority god fearing, gun holding, white males. Who feel that their country is being taken away from them, which means their privilege they enjoyed before is now being eroded and they can't handle it.

Black Swan

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Oh I'm not denying the perception that Trump is reflective of the majority of Republicans, and I can see the Democrats pummeling them if Trump is on the ticket in 2016. I just think it's unfair to portray Bush et al. as racist, Hispanic-hating fools.

Unfortunately for the GOP, their Trump front runner in polls since the debates sets the tone for the Republican party for outsiders (Independents and Democrats), and appearances, not content rules in America. Trump knows this from the entertainment industry, unlike his other Republican opponents. Trump will continue to make brash statements (like he did today about a celebrity model dropping from a 10) to draw the national telly media's attention, very similar to the King Fish of Louisiana, where good news is best, bad news is second best, and no news is bad news for a candidate. Didn't hear a squeak from any of the other 15 or so GOP candidates on the national news today, only Trump.

In all fairness, Jeb Bush does not appear to be a bigot or racist in the slightest to me, rather his wife of many years was originally a Mexican citizen, and his son George Bush is both, and they speak both English and Spanish in their household. But Jeb Bush is dropping in the polls against Trump, and a couple of months ago I had been convinced that after the Dem and GOP primaries were decided, it would be a contest between the Bush Dynasty and the Clinton Machine.

But America likes their so called "reality" entertainment shows, and Trump is giving them what they want. Love him, or hate him, everyone is talking about him, and that wins elections no matter how absurd the candidate. Dig up and ask Huey Long how he won LA governor and US Senator. Or ask Arnold Schwarzenegger about winning the Governator of the state with the largest population and economy of the 50, 8th in GDP in the world if a nation, with only body building and action film actor qualifications (to govern?).

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Woulda-Coulda-Shoulda… the battle cry of every criminal.

Listen, you just defended Nixon on semantics, so that's a bit rich.

And "Just her lawyer????" Perhaps we should issue top level security clearances as prizes in Cracker Jack boxes next, well only if they're democrat supporters, that is.

I believe the FBI is in fact looking into whether some Chinese Government crack/hacking farm was able to wangle their way into this Mom and Pop Server Shop and steal Top Secret data because of Hillary’s paranoia and loosey goosey attitude towards our national security.

Again, I think you're disproportionately getting bent out by Hillary when this kind of thing truly and regrettably happens all the time. I guarantee you she's not the only dem doing this kind of thing. Obama had is own private blackberry connection if you recall. Might still have. And as I pointed out, a lot on the right do it, too. Much ado about nothing, just Roger Ailes trying to grind more grit against Hillary because evidently he can't stand her.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Listen, you just defended Nixon on semantics, so that's a bit rich.

I'm not defending him, but rather making the point that if you can defend Hillary Clinton in this matter, how can you not defend Nixon.

Again, I think you're disproportionately getting bent out by Hillary when this kind of thing truly and regrettably happens all the time. I guarantee you she's not the only dem doing this kind of thing. Obama had is own private blackberry connection if you recall. Might still have. And as I pointed out, a lot on the right do it, too. Much ado about nothing, just Roger Ailes trying to grind more grit against Hillary because evidently he can't stand her.

Sorry, but this is not a big nothingburger. She has lied over and over again in this email scandal matter. And each time her lies are uncovered she changes the story. This is a big deal, and the American people are taking notice. They are asking… What is she hiding? Do we want a person in the White House who operates by serial deception? Do we want a person who, out of paranoia and who believes she's above the law, established an email system that violated federal policy, that thwarted congressional oversight, that skirted the Freedom of Information Act, and quite possibly damaged national security? Her falling numbers indicate that this all is causing voters to wonder if we really want another four years of a government we can't trust.

There is now news that a backup of her server might exist. Is there any doubt more classified and Top Secret information will be found, which she has claimed doesn’t exist? And what if it is discovered to house details about other topics such as Benghazi – against requests of Congressional investigations, or a integration of Clinton Foundation donors and State Department business. Yes, these are speculation at this point, and she has enough problems as it is with the troubling matters already proven to be true. But if there is a chance they find more incriminating evidence into nefarious matters of hers, the Democrats should already be worrying they have no one left to rescue them from a disaster of Hillary’s own making.

You can bury your head in the sand regarding who Hillary Clinton really is, but all of this should give everyone pause and question her judgment, and wonder what else is she hiding... And if we should give the keys to the country to someone nobody can trust.