2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

MightyMandarin

Black Swan wrote: »

Trump is not an intelligent, charismatic speaker like Obama. Whether you hate or love Obama, his public speaking and articulation skills have been vastly superior to that of Trump. Trump makes brash poorly informed statements for the sole purpose of entertaining his audience, and entertains he does, and the polls reflect this entertainment aspect.

Fair enough, but I find myself as interested in watching him speak as I watched Obama in 2008. I despise the man, but he's quirky and entertaining to watch.

sabat

I have to admit, Trump is growing on me-it's like a real life version of East Bound and Down.

Overheal

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Fair enough, but I find myself as interested in watching him speak as I watched Obama in 2008. I despise the man, but he's quirky and entertaining to watch.

That appears to be his entire strategy.

KingBrian2

sabat wrote: »

I have to admit, Trump is growing on me-it's like a real life version of East Bound and Down.

People liked Reagan but the hard core conservatives used and manipulated him to push their agenda of invading sovereign countries and relaxing banking laws. Can Donald Trump keep Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes happy without alienating the public that support him. A lot of what he says is good and has to be said, nobody is bringing up these issues that matter to Republican and Independent alike. The fact that he has been helped out by Fox News is a side note to the general public but come election day he will owe that news station his political clout.

Black Swan

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Donald Trump... A lot of what he says is good and has to be said...

Trump made one of the most ignorant and bigoted statements of the 15 (or more) GOP candidates, and he leads the polls for his party after making it, which says a lot about the US American electorate that supports him:

"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.

It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably— probably— from the Middle East."

Ignorant and bigoted people generations ago in America claimed that the Irish crossing the pond in millions to escape Eire famine were undesirable too, just like Trump claims about immigrants from "Mexico... South and Latin America... (and) from the Middle East" today. Furthermore, Trump refuses to apologise for making the above quoted statement. Does this mean that he personally believes it; or worse, is he intentionally making brash, bigoted, and ignorant statements to appeal to uneducated mob sentiments like Gutav Le Bon's leader of The Crowd?

America has been a melting pot since its founding, and all too often there has been a segment of the population already in America that resents newcomers (in-group vs out-group), which I believe Trump has been appealing to with his sensationalist mob mentality statements. Such broadsweeping Trump statements do not have empirical support. Bianca E. Bersani (2014), An Examination of First and Second Generation Immigrant Offending Trajectories, Justice Quarterly, Volume 31, Issue 2, pages 315-343, suggests that such statements in America are myth: "The myth of the criminal immigrant has permeated public and political debate for much of this nation's history and persists despite growing evidence to the contrary."

KingBrian2

Black Swan wrote: »

Trump made one of the most ignorant and bigoted statements of the 15 (or more) GOP candidates, and he leads the polls for his party after making it, which says a lot about the US American electorate that supports him:

"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.

It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably— probably— from the Middle East."

Ignorant and bigoted people generations ago in America claimed that the Irish crossing the pond in millions to escape Eire famine were undesirable too, just like Trump claims about immigrants from "Mexico... South and Latin America... (and) from the Middle East" today. Furthermore, Trump refuses to apologise for making the above quoted statement. Does this mean that he personally believes it; or worse, is he intentionally making brash, bigoted, and ignorant statements to appeal to uneducated mod sentiments like Gutav La Bon's leader of The Crowd?

America has been a melting pot since its founding, and all too often there has been a segment of the population already in America that resents newcomers (in-group vs out-group), which I believe Trump has been appealing to with his sensationalist mob mentality statements. Such broadsweeping Trump statements do not have empirical support. Bianca E. Bersani (2014), An Examination of First and Second Generation Immigrant Offending Trajectories, Justice Quarterly Volume 31, Issue 2, pages 315-343, suggests that such statements in America are myth: "The myth of the criminal immigrant has permeated public and political debate for much of this nation's history and persists despite growing evidence to the contrary."

He also has broken the GOP support base. He is attractive to formerly Ron Paul Libertarians, Independents opposed to Hillary and friendly to big business. He appeals most to the border states and I would argue McCain lost his election by refusing to speak up for those people in his state of Arizona who have a huge problem with Mexicans coming into their state competing for jobs driving American's further into poverty.

Trump is not the most reactionary politician by a mile off. This election shows anything goes and while you and I might be appalled by his remarks the electorate desire an honest guy who will say it at it is. Some of his worst comments occurred during President Obama's campaign and subsequent victory. He endorsed the whole Marxist Kenyan Socialist label which the GOP praised him for. He is the anti Obama and the perfect candidate for the GOP. As I see it he encapsulates everything the GOP want as their leader of the country.

Black Swan

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump... while you and I might be appalled by his remarks the electorate desire an honest guy who will say it at it is.

Trump is a telly entertainer. May I suggest that he has been intentionally dishonest, and willing to say anything that entertains his audience, whether he believes it or not, so long as it draws media attention in Huey Long "King Fish" fashion.

KingBrian2

Black Swan wrote: »

Trump is a telly entertainer. May I suggest that he has been intentionally dishonest, and willing to say anything that entertains his audience, whether he believes it or not, so long as it draws media attention in Huey Long "King Fish" fashion.

Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and Texas disagree with you. They love the guy. Won't attract voters elsewhere but we might be surprised New York or New Jersey they could back him. If the southern States jump in he will win the day. You don't have to be selfless and suave to become president.

Black Swan

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and Texas disagree with you. They love the guy. Won't attract voters elsewhere but we might be surprised New York or New Jersey they could back him. If the southern States jump in he will win the day. You don't have to be selfless and suave to become president.

I cannot speak for the entire state populations of Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas when addressing Trump's recent popularity, although I would suspect that the Hispanic voters in those states are not inclined to "love the guy," and if he continues to make such bigoted and uneducated remarks about immigrants, and their American born ancestors from "Mexico... South and Latin America... (and) from the Middle East," they will turn out in record numbers to vote against him across the US in November 2016.

Of course, if Trump does get the GOP nomination, he would be smart to pick either Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz as VP running mate to influence those Hispanics that might vote for the 1st Hispanic VP in US history.

ECO_Mental

Listening to yer man Hannity on Fox the other night and I got the impression that they seem to be starting to back Trump a bit. I suppose Fox has to jump on some band wagon

God I hate Fox and that clown Hannity

20Cent

Two words
Deez Nutz



The Trump situation can be put into context when a 15 year old can poll at 9% due to a funny name.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/meet-deez-nuts-the-teen-presidential-candidate-punking-america-20150819

Early days yet.

Black Swan

20Cent wrote: »

Early days yet.

Yes indeed, a long time politically between now and November 2016.

MightyMandarin

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Listening to yer man Hannity on Fox the other night and I got the impression that they seem to be starting to back Trump a bit. I suppose Fox has to jump on some band wagon

God I hate Fox and that clown Hannity

I dunno, Bill O'Reilly seems to be bashing him quite hard calling him a 'Trumpian' not a Republican and seems to be taking down a lot of his issues such as changing the constitution on birth right citizenship, 'the wall' and a lot of his other trash talk.

Either way it's fun to watch it unfold, but I'd love Bernie to make a surge or Biden to join the race now as it's all focused on the GOP.

Overheal

Jon Stewart, sadly, left the Daily Show after 16 years...

Since then, he's made plans to appear as a host/cameo-star of WWE Summerslam (this Sunday) and now there is a petition out to make him a debate moderator:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/20/media/jon-stewart-debate-moderator-petition/index.html

Over 100,000 people have signed a Change.org petition that wants the satirical host to moderate a 2016 presidential debate.
One of those signers is Martin O'Malley, the former Maryland governor who is seeking the Democratic presidential nomination.
"Over the last 16 years, Jon Stewart has played an influential and iconic role in covering U.S. politics and media," the petition reads. "We believe he should continue that tradition as a moderator at one of the 2016 Presidential Debates."

20Cent

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I dunno, Bill O'Reilly seems to be bashing him quite hard calling him a 'Trumpian' not a Republican and seems to be taking down a lot of his issues such as changing the constitution on birth right citizenship, 'the wall' and a lot of his other trash talk.

Either way it's fun to watch it unfold, but I'd love Bernie to make a surge or Biden to join the race now as it's all focused on the GOP.

Never thought I'd say this but Bill O'Reilly is right. trump has said he'd consider running as an independent if he doesn't get the nomination so his loyalty is to himself not the Republican Party.

MightyMandarin

20Cent wrote: »

Never thought I'd say this but Bill O'Reilly is right. trump has said he'd consider running as an independent if he doesn't get the nomination so his loyalty is to himself not the Republican Party.

I know O'Reilly is a bit of a clown, but he's actually right about a lot of things imo, it's just he's very arrogant and constantly tries to woo the typical FOX News viewers by blaming Obama for everything wrong with the world and ignoring everything good about his presidency.

jobbridge4life

20Cent wrote: »

Never thought I'd say this but Bill O'Reilly is right. trump has said he'd consider running as an independent if he doesn't get the nomination so his loyalty is to himself not the Republican Party.

Well couldn't one argue (perhaps not convincingly) that his loyalty was to the American people and not the Republican Party.

Permabear

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MightyMandarin

Permabear wrote: »

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I don't criticise Trump for being disloyal to the GOP; I criticise him because he's an idiotic, yet entertaining, buffoon with deluded policies. Sanders is the only candidate across both parties who is willing to engage in policy debate and isn't concerned with causing scandal or trying to be 'hip' like Hillary is desperately doing.

Bernie is the only candidate with any sort of integrity in the race right now; Trump is just a clown seizing upon the 'silly season' stage the election race is in now.

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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Nothing "perceived" about it, he flat out has said he would run as an independent if he doesn't get the nomination. Thus damaging the republican efforts for his own ego.

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

Trump is not an intelligent, charismatic speaker like Obama. Whether you hate or love Obama, his public speaking and articulation skills have been vastly superior to that of Trump. Trump makes brash poorly informed statements for the sole purpose of entertaining his audience, and entertains he does, and the polls reflect this entertainment aspect.

I dunno, the Wharton School of Business at Penn is a pretty prestigious Ivy League school. Plus, he’s made Billions. Pretty remarkable accomplishment for someone not being an intelligent, charismatic speaker like Obama, eh? But have you seen Obama speak without the use of a teleprompter and prepared speech. Donald Trump runs circles around him. Obama is mighty pitiful when having to stand on his own accord. But Obama’s a charismatic actor... and his record, and not merely the polls, reflect it.

Permabear

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Permabear

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20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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If you don't get the nomination and decide to run as an independent then that is disloyalty to the party and yes ego has a lot to do with it.

Why do you keep mentioning Sanders? Trying to convolute the conversation?

Thargor

Amerika wrote: »

I dunno, the Wharton School of Business at Penn is a pretty prestigious Ivy League school. Plus, he’s made Billions. Pretty remarkable accomplishment for someone not being an intelligent, charismatic speaker like Obama, eh? But have you seen Obama speak without the use of a teleprompter and prepared speech. Donald Trump runs circles around him. Obama is mighty pitiful when having to stand on his own accord. But Obama’s a charismatic actor... and his record, and not merely the polls, reflect it.

Trump inherited about $200 million from his father and stuck it all in property at the right time.

Amerika

Thargor wrote: »

Trump inherited about $200 million from his father and stuck it all in property at the right time.

And turned that $200 million into $4 Billion. I only wish I was so moronic. :rolleyes:

He's ahead in the polls and has spent almost nothing. Mighty smart accomplishment, wouldn't you say?

Permabear

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Thargor

A monkey could get that rate of return if handed 200 million in the 70s, all he did was take over the property investment company his father built for him and go along for the ride, its not any sign of intelligence or economic acumen.

Thargor

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/i-can-keep-the-pope-quiet-by-warning-him-of-isil-claims-trump-31467168.html

Good God what a moron he is, I love the way he keeps putting "great" "fantastic" and "wonderful" adjectives in randomly in his sentences, if he gets the nomination this will be the most hilarious Republican humiliation since Palin...

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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Did Nader seek the nomination then run as an independent when he didn't get it?

Sanders has said he won't run as an independent if the party decides to nominate someone else.