2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Wompa1

Amerika wrote: »

Sure. The stockholders of a company are the equivalent to "the people" in government.

But how would that make them the person person to lead the country? Shouldn't we vote for the betterment for all citizens...not just those with influence and power...

Overheal

not to mention she ran that company not all that well, unless you're the owner of a coveted HP iPod,,

Amerika

Wompa1 wrote: »

But how would that make them the person person to lead the country? Shouldn't we vote for the betterment for all citizens...not just those with influence and power...

That is exactly what I believe Fiorina would focus on... the betterment of all citizens. As opposed to Clinton... who is for the betterment of all Clintons. IMO

Wompa1

Amerika wrote: »

That is exactly what I believe Fiorina would focus on... the betterment of all citizens. As opposed to Clinton... who is for the betterment of all Clintons. IMO

What leads you to believe that? She didn't give a toss about HP's employees, I can tell you that as somebody that worked for HP. You were stating that she's on the Koch brothers shortlist...if she takes money from them, she will not be in a position working for the betterment of the people...she'll be Corporate sponsored just like the rest of them (Bar Bernie)

She said that her Medieval studies degree can help her defeat ISIS. She has spoken out against the Iran deal. The only actual social type of policy I agree with her on is net neutrality but at the same time she again in a bragging way for some reason stated when at HP she supplied servers to the NSA...

It's looking like Joe Biden will be jumping in soon. If it's true that he's been speaking to Unions recently. I wouldn't be too thrilled about him being president but he's better than Carly or Hillary.

Amerika

Wompa1 wrote: »

What leads you to believe that? She didn't give a toss about HP's employees, I can tell you that as somebody that worked for HP. You were stating that she's on the Koch brothers shortlist...if she takes money from them, she will not be in a position working for the betterment of the people...she'll be Corporate sponsored just like the rest of them (Bar Bernie)

She said that her Medieval studies degree can help her defeat ISIS. She has spoken out against the Iran deal. The only actual social type of policy I agree with her on is net neutrality but at the same time she again in a bragging way for some reason stated when at HP she supplied servers to the NSA...

It's looking like Joe Biden will be jumping in soon. If it's true that he's been speaking to Unions recently. I wouldn't be too thrilled about him being president but he's better than Carly or Hillary.

I think you’re too close to HP/Compaq merger to have a objective view. Let me ask you this, what would have been the plight of the Compaq and HP employees when the tech boom went bust? Wouldn’t even more employees have lost their jobs without the merger?

Tompatrick

What's the latest on Joe Biden?

Wompa1

Amerika wrote: »

I think you’re too close to have a objective view. Let me ask you this, what would have been the plight of those Compaq and HP employees when the tech boom went bust? Wouldn’t even more employees have lost their jobs without the merger?

I didn't get fired by HP...I also didn't work with or have any workings with Carly. I mainly worked under the Mark Hurd regime. He also made huge cuts.

As for how would they have faired. Impossible to say. Compaq made better machines, in my opinion. Compaq had purchased Digital and were making their own in roads. I don't think people are saying Compaq was a bad company and that's why it was a bad move.

They are saying she f*cked up because she bought them when she did and paid as much as she did. HP were the largest Tech company in the world...they had partnerships with every major Tech company in the world. She had the exposure to the inner workings of the Tech Industry, she had enough information to know where things were heading and she made the decision to buy Compaq...such a stupid move.

She could have waited 3+ years and bought them for much less.

Keep in mind, you keep saying all were impact by the crash...well, just like the crash in 2008, companies also gained. Large companies gobbled up smaller companies and became bigger themselves. Her mistake was buying a hardware company for so much.

If I was to guess on the numbers. I would think more of the Compaq employees would have survived if they had not been bought by HP. Just like more of the EDS employees would have survived if not bought by HP. HP already had overlapping skills...or at least the management thought they did. HP were also so large that a way for them to effect stock prices was with lay offs. Not all lay offs were operational. Some were clearly ways to bolster the stock price for investors to cash out.

Wompa1

Tompatrick wrote: »

What's the latest on Joe Biden?

He apparently spoke with Union heads for police, firefighters etc. to gauge their interest in supporting him. Over the weekend the Firefighters announced they were no longer endorsing Hillary.

The first Democrat debate is coming up. I'm guessing he's jump in after the first couple. He's not the strongest public speaker from what I've seen. More of a fun guy than a serious guy...

Amerika

Wompa1 wrote: »

I didn't get fired by HP...I also didn't work with or have any workings with Carly. I mainly worked under the Mark Hurd regime. He also made huge cuts.

As for how would they have faired. Impossible to say. Compaq made better machines, in my opinion. Compaq had purchased Digital and were making their own in roads. I don't think people are saying Compaq was a bad company and that's why it was a bad move.

They are saying she f*cked up because she bought them when she did and paid as much as she did. HP were the largest Tech company in the world...they had partnerships with every major Tech company in the world. She had the exposure to the inner workings of the Tech Industry, she had enough information to know where things were heading and she made the decision to buy Compaq...such a stupid move.

She could have waited 3+ years and bought them for much less.

Keep in mind, you keep saying all were impact by the crash...well, just like the crash in 2008, companies also gained. Large companies gobbled up smaller companies and became bigger themselves. Her mistake was buying a hardware company for so much.

If I was to guess on the numbers. I would think more of the Compaq employees would have survived if they had not been bought by HP. Just like more of the EDS employees would have survived if not bought by HP. HP already had overlapping skills...or at least the management thought they did. HP were also so large that a way for them to effect stock prices was with lay offs. Not all lay offs were operational. Some were clearly ways to bolster the stock price for investors to cash out.

I think the logic of the merger was correct, but the execution is where the problems existed. I think Fiorina’s biggest failure in the merger was in educating HP managers and employees (who had different philosophies and had difficulty working together... primarily at the executive level) on how to realize the cost and operational efficiencies and translate those into higher margins for each business?

Wompa1

Amerika wrote: »

I think the logic of the merger was correct, but the execution is where the problems existed. I think Fiorina’s biggest failure in the merger was in educating HP managers and employees (who had different philosophies and had difficulty working together... primarily at the executive level) on how to realize the cost and operational efficiencies and translate those into higher margins for each business?

Her biggest failure is the fact she's not in any way shape or form technical. She was also stubborn and wouldn't listen to those who were. So, she was leading other non-technical directors into pitfalls..they trusted her leadership. She failed them.

Black Swan

eire4 wrote: »

I think your under with that number. Last years 2014 midterm elections saw over $3 billion spent on buying politicans so given this is a presidential election cycle I would expect the amount of money used to buy politicans to be even higher.

It goes up dramatically every presidential election cycle. Does anyone ever ask what the special interest PACs, Super PACs, corporations, and rich want in return for their billions in 2016 presidential campaign investment?

WarZ

Wompa1 wrote: »

Her biggest failure is the fact she's not in any way shape or form technical. She was also stubborn and wouldn't listen to those who were. So, she was leading other non-technical directors into pitfalls..they trusted her leadership. She failed them.

Not exactly the type of person you'd want to be president.

She appears sociopathic to me as well. Her planned parenthood comments were vulgar.

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

Sure. The stockholders of a company are the equivalent to "the people" in government.

I'm sorry, but that's complete nonsense. The stockholders of a company are not equivalent to the citizens of a company. I am bamboozled by the suggestion.

Brian?

WarZ wrote: »

Not exactly the type of person you'd want to be president.

She appears sociopathic to me as well. Her planned parenthood comments were vulgar.

There is a paper thin line between a good CEO and a sociopath. They display many of the same characteristics, primarily a lack of empathy.

I actually don't know if Carly was a good CEO, I think it's actually irrelevant to the discussion. Being a great basketball player is more a qualification for being president than being a great CEO.

eire4

Black Swan wrote: »

It goes up dramatically every presidential election cycle. Does anyone ever ask what the special interest PACs, Super PACs, corporations, and rich want in return for their billions in 2016 presidential campaign investment?

No question about it. There are some who ask. But clearly the very same special interests, corporations and wealthy oligarchs you talk about have already garned so much control over the politicans in Washington DC and control most of the media that they have mostly been able to control the debate and brain wash enough of the people that very little is being done to fight back.
Occupy Wall Street was a great example of fighting back and look at the media campaign orchestrated to smear what they were doing. Never mind the police tactics but overtly and covertly. Never heard about the police infiltrating and going after wall street criminals who overtly destroyed thousands of Americans lives with their criminal behaviour. But the police were all over the occupy movement.

alaimacerc

Amerika wrote: »

I think you’re too close to HP/Compaq merger to have a objective view.

That's a handy debating topic. Anyone with the first-hand knowledge to challenge your approving overview is "too close to be objective", then, essentially?

alaimacerc

Amerika wrote: »

Sure. The stockholders of a company are the equivalent to "the people" in government.

By "equivalent to" you appear to mean "weakly and polemically analogous with".

alaimacerc

Amerika wrote: »

Holding political office is not a requirement in our Constitution to become President.

So by "qualified", you apparently simply mean "born in the US before 1981". Informative.

alaimacerc

Amerika wrote: »

Having Fironia go up against Clinton certainly would draw some woman supporters from Clinton, and the Democratic mantra of the GOP’s war on women would be shot to hell.

I think you must have missed her (not so much "vulgar", per another poster, as frankly vile) comments on Planned Parenthood.

As to the first part, sure. Do you think the Republicans will go with that tactic, though, if it risks the "get out the base" angle? Given what a base it is...

Amerika

alaimacerc wrote: »

That's a handy debating topic. Anyone with the first-hand knowledge to challenge your approving overview is "too close to be objective", then, essentially?

I know several people that worked with or for HP. It seems like they all hate her, mainly because they believe she destroyed the company and because of all the layoffs. I usually ask them what would have happened to HP at the time if something weren’t done? Weren’t they losing market share and weren’t layoffs inevitable anyway? I usually get a deer-in-in-the-headlights look, followed by more subjective opinions. Almost seems like they need someone in particular to blame the tech crash on.

Amerika

alaimacerc wrote: »

By "equivalent to" you appear to mean "weakly and polemically analogous with".

No, I don't.

Amerika

alaimacerc wrote: »

So by "qualified", you apparently simply mean "born in the US before 1981". Informative.

You seem to have left something off of my post you quoted... And failed to read a subsequent post on the matter. It's okay, though, all is forgiven.

Amerika

alaimacerc wrote: »

I think you must have missed her (not so much "vulgar", per another poster, as frankly vile) comments on Planned Parenthood.

As to the first part, sure. Do you think the Republicans will go with that tactic, though, if it risks the "get out the base" angle? Given what a base it is...

What do you consider being "vile" comments made by her regarding Planned Parenthood. I consider them all being correct and factual. Or do you think all women in America favor the killing of unborn babies?

ODEON123

Somebody needs to kill Donald Trump the sh*t he says is just awful like he is one of the most racist, sexist, discrimitive people ever the only reason he doesnt get in trouble is because he absolutely loaded and is a fronnt runner for the republicans

PopePalpatine

*sigh* I take it Amerika didn't read this article.

Wompa1

Amerika wrote: »

I know several people that worked with or for HP. It seems like they all hate her, mainly because they believe she destroyed the company and because of all the layoffs. I usually ask them what would have happened to HP at the time if something weren’t done? Weren’t they losing market share and weren’t layoffs inevitable anyway? I usually get a deer-in-in-the-headlights look, followed by more subjective opinions. Almost seems like they need someone in particular to blame the tech crash on.

What does HP have to do with the Tech bubble bursting? :pac:

HP became the largest Tech company in the world after the bubble burst but that was down to the strategy taken and applied by Mark Hurd. Who also had massive lay offs during his tenure. But what could at least be said for Mr. Hurd is that he surrounded himself with some good people and was better equipped to lead a Tech company. He made some smart acquisitions which diversified the company and gave them more of Enterprise Services slant.

Then Leo Apoetheker replaced Hurd after he was busted flying his mistress around on the Corporate jet. Leo had the right idea but his execution was terrible. He was more cloud and software focused. A great move but he did a fire sale of some of their Smartphone and cut off WebOS which was just purchased and was seen as a great buy. He got canned very quickly. He also made a really bad purchase and paid over the odds for a company in Autonomy...he was Carly, only he actually did have a direction to go in...he just did it too wildly for the shareholders.

Now they have Meg Whitman another person with no technical prowess at all. She's a business woman who has sat on the boards of other companies. She's killing HP. They are in really bad shape. She seems to now be swinging for the fences..pushing for the research teams to start churning out innovative products that are unique..it could work out but it's a big gamble...they are still a huge company. They should be aligning themselves with key partners and acquiring promising companies for growth.

ECO_Mental

Black Swan wrote: »

It goes up dramatically every presidential election cycle. Does anyone ever ask what the special interest PACs, Super PACs, corporations, and rich want in return for their billions in 2016 presidential campaign investment?

It's probably more like what they don't want. I would pay a couple of billion not to have Trump running the county(if I had a couple of billon to spare that is:))

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

What do you consider being "vile" comments made by her regarding Planned Parenthood. I consider them all being correct and factual.

Then it must be true right? But just for the sake of thoroughness, here's a breakdown fact-checkers:

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/carly-fiorina/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/carly-fiorina/statements/

Not all of which are true, but we've seen worse fibs.

Overheal

Pro-life presidential candidates are being taken to task for their seemingly contradictory statements when it comes to gun control. Their quotes on both abortion and gun control are in the link video.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trevor-noah-questions-republicans-comic-829740

"Human life only holds value until you take it out of the package, and then it’s worth nothing." -Trevor Noah

Amerika

PopePalpatine wrote: »

*sigh* I take it Amerika didn't read this article.

*sigh* So since someone sets up a website and puts the name “factcheck” in it, and claims to be "non-partisan," you consider it gospel? I’m not much for ad hominem attacks, but factcheck.org might be the exception, because of their deception. Who funds the site and pays their expenses? Well, factcheck.org receives their funding from the liberal Annenberg Foundation. The Annenberg Foundation was originally founded by Walter J. Annenberg, a conservative supporter of Ronald Reagan. But when Walter Annenberg died, his family took over the management of the foundation and it took a turn to the far left with it.

So spare me the so-called “truth” of factcheck.org.

But, not to dwell on the ad hominem aspect, what exactly did Fiorina say...

“As regards Planned Parenthood, anyone who has watched this videotape, I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain.”

NOW HERE ARE THE FACTS… Did she say the aborted babies video was taken from/in Planned Parenthood operations? NO! Or was she accurately describing what she saw in the video? YES!

Okay… A recap of the video shows a former Planned Parenthood technician talks about harvesting the brain of an alive and fully formed fetus. While she tells her story, there is footage of another baby of roughly the same gestational age as the one whose brain she harvested. This baby is seen still kicking and its heart still beating.

Now, utilizing similar illustrations, and approximate images, added to news stories, in order to give the viewer a more accurate picture, is a common journalistic technique and used by all the media outlets. We’ve all seen how the techniques is used, and accept it... admit it. But if Fiorina committed a sin, how come I don’t hear you all yelling at someone like CNN, when using the same technique? (No, of course you don't… They aren’t republicans. )

In my opinion, Fiornia should have used the story, in the debate, that she told at a Susan B. Anthony dinner this year when arguing that it is the Democrats, not Republicans, who are “extreme” when it comes to abortion. Fiorina described how women come up to her and say, ‘I agree with Republicans on so many things, but I just can’t support this extreme pro-life platform of the Republican Party.' She said the way she answers that always is to say, ‘Well, I can respect that. Have you ever read the Democratic Party platform? Well, here’s what it says: Any abortion, at any time, at any point in a woman’s pregnancy, for any reason, to be paid for by taxpayers... Do you agree with that?’