2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Black Swan

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Right now Muslims are the only ones shooting up cafes in the western world, set off bombs at a marathon, or have flown planes into skyscrapers in the recent past.

Using this rationale perhaps Trump should also demand that all US citizens of Irish ancestry and nationality be placed in a database, given our Troubles history?

K-9

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Right now Muslims are the only ones shooting up cafes in the western world, set off bombs at a marathon, or have flown planes into skyscrapers in the recent past.

So people in the west have evey right to be concerned about Muslims/Islam and the potential spread of the radical forms of Islam.

So when candidates put forward proposals that are seen to curb the spread of radical Islam people react favorably.

The Dem. candidates are pussy footing around the topic, refusing to even use the term "radical Islam" for example.
Has it gained them anything in the polls ?

The UK had a terrorist threat from the Irish in the 70's, I'm sure similar logic would have worked then too. Nothing idiotic or anything in danger of back firing there at all. If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear.

Overheal

K-9 wrote: »

If you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear.

I fear a loss of privacy and a loss of liberty.

Memnoch

Overheal wrote: »

I fear a loss of privacy and a loss of liberty.

I think he was being sarcastic.

eire4

Memnoch wrote: »

I think he was being sarcastic.

I think your right that was how I took it anyway. Birmingham 6, Maguire, Guilford spring to mind as to what results can happen when a government targets a specific ethnic group.

K-9

Overheal wrote: »

I fear a loss of privacy and a loss of liberty.

Exactly, Trump's idea is basically state racial profiling and the Jewish spokesperson put it perfectly. Its not just outright dumb, its highly dangerous and guaranteed to back fire. Its borderline hate speech and the opposite of what should be happening.

Appealing to the lowest common denominator with no thought of the repercussions. The IRA and SF were proscribed organisations in the 80's, let's put all Irish Americans on a list because they fund arms bought from Ghadaffi and the likes.

frostyjacks

I liked the crime statistics he retweeted, sort of puts the #blacklivesmatter idiots in their place.

America has a serious problem with race relations, and tiptoeing around it just makes things worse. It needs a strongman like Trump to put some order in place. If people just obey the law they've nothing to worry about.

PopePalpatine

"I don't always comment on black people being shot, but when I do it's to attack them."

20Cent

frostyjacks wrote: »

I liked the crime statistics he retweeted, sort of puts the #blacklivesmatter idiots in their place.

America has a serious problem with race relations, and tiptoeing around it just makes things worse. It needs a strongman like Trump to put some order in place. If people just obey the law they've nothing to worry about.

Except the stats are all wrong and the source referenced doesn't exist. Thought the right would be outraged by the registering of Muslims thing very anti-freedom but then I thought the same when he slagged off war veteran John McCain. Can't tell if he is using the racism to cover up the fascism or vice versa.

frostyjacks

20Cent wrote: »

Except the stats are all wrong and the source referenced doesn't exist. Thought the right would be outraged by the registering of Muslims thing very anti-freedom but then I thought the same when he slagged off war veteran John McCain. Can't tell if he is using the racism to cover up the fascism or vice versa.

What are the actual statistics then? I'd be very surprised if they weren't similar to what Trump rt'd.

The database idea is reasonable considering the circumstances. When the US was at war with Japan they interned any Japanese citizens living there in concentration camps. It was about putting America's interests first. Camps might be a little OTT at the minute, and would be a hard sell to voters, so a national database is a reasonable alternative.

PopePalpatine

Here's the most recent data, from 2014: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2014.xls

Of 2,451 blacks murdered, 2,205 were murdered by other blacks (~90%), and of 3,021 whites murdered, 2,488 were murdered by other whites (~82.3%).

Oh, and in the past 24 hours Trump said that a group of his supporters beating a #BlackLivesMatter protester were justified.

Brian?

frostyjacks wrote: »

What are the actual statistics then? I'd be very surprised if they weren't similar to what Trump rt'd.

The database idea is reasonable considering the circumstances. When the US was at war with Japan they interned any Japanese citizens living there in concentration camps. It was about putting America's interests first. Camps might be a little OTT at the minute, and would be a hard sell to voters, so a national database is a reasonable alternative.

Under no circumstances is interning ethic or religious minorities in concentration camps ok. There is nothing reasonable about a national database of religious affiliation. Ffs the NRA even object to a national database of gun owners.

I can't believe I had to write this post.

K-9

I assume that's a parody post.

frostyjacks

Brian? wrote: »

Under no circumstances is interning ethic or religious minorities in concentration camps ok. There is nothing reasonable about a national database of religious affiliation. Ffs the NRA even object to a national database of gun owners.

I can't believe I had to write this post.

Under no circumstances, really? It seems to have occurred more than a few times throughout history. I wouldn't like to see it, but then I don't like to see innocent people getting massacred as they dine in a restaurant or lie on a beach. Desperate times etc.

Brian?

frostyjacks wrote: »

Under no circumstances, really? It seems to have occurred more than a few times throughout history. I wouldn't like to see it, but then I don't like to see innocent people getting massacred as they dine in a restaurant or lie on a beach. Desperate times etc.

The answer to violence is locking people up in camps? All Muslims? Or just the Arab looking ones. What about the black Muslims such as the Nation of Islam?

3000 white people were killed by other white people in the US last year? Time to lock up all of the white people. They killed more people last year than the attacks of the twin towers.

Fr Tod Umptious

frostyjacks wrote: »

I liked the crime statistics he retweeted, sort of puts the #blacklivesmatter idiots in their place.

America has a serious problem with race relations, and tiptoeing around it just makes things worse. It needs a strongman like Trump to put some order in place. If people just obey the law they've nothing to worry about.

The black lives matter stuff has really got out of hand.

Back in July Martin O Malley had to apologise forsuggesting that "all lives matter"

You have protests at colleges over race, I read that Princeton students are demanding that buildings named after Woodrow Wilson are renamed, as he supported segregation.

At the rate it will not be long before the name of the DC based football team comes up again, and I don't mean the Redskins part, I mean the Washington part.

RobertKK

The Paris attacks have helped Donald Trump. The talk about a wall on the USA/Mexico border has been strengthened by the fact members of ISIS were caught in central America as they intended to go into Mexico and cross the USA border.
Polls show Americans are getting more scared of immigration due to terrorism fears, the same polls show the Democrats are out of touch with a majority of Americans.

What happened in Paris was not good for Hillary Clinton. She supported the Arab Spring which was a catalyst for what we have now - a massive terrorism problem. The world was better with Gaddafi bad and all that he was, than what we have now. Supporting the Free Syrian Army who had no democratic mandate because we didn't know who these people were was another huge mistake.
We may not like it it in our countries where we have free elections, but our societies are so much different than the societies of these dictators.
Obama and Clinton have backed the wrong people, along with most western nations including Ireland - Gilmore was all for the Free Syrian Army. All these people are responsible for the terrorism mess we are in.
American voters will not be so forgiving in the upcoming election as the policies have put many western nations including the US under a higher risk of terrorism.

I think the election looks bad for the Democrats:
Under Obama, the national debt has gone from over $9 trillion to around $20 trillion.
Under Obama, awful foreign policy, backed the devil one didn't know in many cases against dictators, and one could make strong arguments that in near all cases bar one, the devil we knew was better than the devil we didn't given what it spawned.

The US Presidential election is in my opinion a real winnable election for the Republicans. Obama has been such a poor president.

K-9

London, Bali, Madrid and 9/11 were all before Obama and the Arab Spring, correlating Paris with Syria or as something directly linked to Obama or Clinton doesn't stand up really.

Tbh I'd say Paris will just make those worried about terrorist attacks more worried, I can't see it being a deciding issue for undecideds to swing an election.

Fr Tod Umptious

K-9 wrote: »

London, Bali, Madrid and 9/11 were all before Obama and the Arab Spring, correlating Paris with Syria or as something directly linked to Obama or Clinton doesn't stand up really.

Tbh I'd say Paris will just make those worried about terrorist attacks more worried, I can't see it being a deciding issue for undecideds to swing an election.

I think it's more the fact that IS have flourished that will hurt rather than the number and location of attacks.

IS are running rampant in Syria/Iraq under Obama's watch.
Putin is a menace in the East, again under Obama's watch.

Hillary may be able to salvage something by becoming more of a "hawk" from here on in.

Black Swan

The independents (without party affiliation) will ultimately decide the president November 2016, given that they represented about 40% of voters, with the remaining Democrats at 31% and Republicans 27% going into the last presidential election (2012). The recent growth in independents should be troublesome for both parties.

Although only anecdotal and not empirically representative, most of my friends are independents and none would vote for Trump or Carson based upon their obvious lack of qualifications for the highest office, as well as their expressed bigotry and terror mongering statements.

RobertKK

K-9 wrote: »

London, Bali, Madrid and 9/11 were all before Obama and the Arab Spring, correlating Paris with Syria or as something directly linked to Obama or Clinton doesn't stand up really.

Tbh I'd say Paris will just make those worried about terrorist attacks more worried, I can't see it being a deciding issue for undecideds to swing an election.

But it is where the terrorists were trained.

Clinton wanted to attack Assad, but Putin put her back in her box. From the very beginning, Clinton and Obama were focused on the wrong people, and all they and the stupid western leaders have given us is a terrorist training base, and one could argue a much bigger threat than Al Qaeda ever were despite 9/11.

Overheal

But it is where the terrorists were trained

Isn't it unreasonable to jump to the conclusion that is their sole base of operations, and that they are not conducting training elsewhere?

Overheal

The dictator comparisons are going to get a lot more prevalent:

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/11/22/3724879/donald-trump-black-lives-matter-protester-beating/

RobertKK

Overheal wrote: »

Isn't it unreasonable to jump to the conclusion that is their sole base of operations, and that they are not conducting training elsewhere?

Doesn't help your argument given it looks like the Paris terrorists all went to Syria and received training.

Black Swan

It appears that the politics of fear and bigotry has benefited Trump in recent polls, allowing him to pull ahead of Carson, and way ahead of Rubio and Cruz. Other GOP nomination contenders remain in the single digits.

Link: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_republican_presidential_nomination-3823.html

eire4

frostyjacks wrote: »

I liked the crime statistics he retweeted, sort of puts the #blacklivesmatter idiots in their place.

America has a serious problem with race relations, and tiptoeing around it just makes things worse. It needs a strongman like Trump to put some order in place. If people just obey the law they've nothing to worry about.

The famous Martin Niemoller quote springs to mind when I read the above.


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

eire4

Overheal wrote: »

The dictator comparisons are going to get a lot more prevalent:

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/11/22/3724879/donald-trump-black-lives-matter-protester-beating/

It truly is just sickening the hate and Xenophobia that is becoming all to much a part of the regular discourse of some presidential candidates.
It is no surprise to see the above kind of incidents happen. When people in leadership positions spew forth such hate they open the door for that hate to be turned into action. Simply disgusting.

Overheal

RobertKK wrote: »

Doesn't help your argument given it looks like the Paris terrorists all went to Syria and received training.

Oh did they? Like how all the 9/11 terrorists definitely came from anywhere except Saudi Arabia? Roight.

RobertKK

Overheal wrote: »

Oh did they? Like how all the 9/11 terrorists definitely came from anywhere except Saudi Arabia? Roight.

All attended terrorist training camps in Afghanistan.

Overheal

We didn't bomb Florida and yet they took flight training there as well.

in case I'm not clear: we should bomb Florida.