2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

my friend

MightyMandarin wrote: »

So your problem is not with ISIS but with Islam itself. You have a problem with more than 1/7 of the people of this earth. Perhaps you need to consider what you're saying before you try to portray extremism as islam.

Who says I? I'm merely reasoning.

Brian?

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Someone with a basic proficiency with handling firearms can reload in 1-3 secs. Having to reload is not the disadvantage that it is portrayed as being.

I'm at best a mediocre marksman and I'd drop any target within 60ft if you gave me 3 secs.

ancapailldorcha

Back on topic please, folks.

MightyMandarin

my friend wrote: »

Who says I? I'm merely reasoning.

By saying you have 'legitimate concerns with Islam'? You didn't say you have 'legitimate concerns with ISIS' so you've made it clear that your problem is not with extremism but Islam itself.

There's a massive difference between having a problem with extremists who seek to impose sharia law and kill anyone who gets in their way, and ordinary muslims who don't associate themselves with extremism.

Edit: Only saw the mod warning after posting. Sorry about that.

jmayo

Weatherproof79 wrote: »

So America is at war with 1.6 billion people based entirely on their religion

Actually a hell of a lot of the muslim world have an issue with US.
I guess it may have something to do with the way they backed some tin pot dictators down through the years.
Also it may have something to do with fact they are seen as beacon of the western secular world.

MightyMandarin wrote: »

So your problem is not with ISIS but with Islam itself. You have a problem with more than 1/7 of the people of this earth. Perhaps you need to consider what you're saying before you try to portray extremism as islam.

You do know Islamic Extremism is not solely down to ISIS.
It has existed for a lot longer than ISIS and if you think otherwise you are very deluded.

MightyMandarin wrote: »

By saying you have 'legitimate concerns with Islam'? You didn't say you have 'legitimate concerns with ISIS' so you've made it clear that your problem is not with extremism but Islam itself.

Again stop equating islamic extremism with ISIS alone.
It has existed before and conservative anti west islamic mindset is being propagated by Saudi backed wahhabists.

MightyMandarin wrote: »

There's a massive difference between having a problem with extremists who seek to impose sharia law and kill anyone who gets in their way, and ordinary muslims who don't associate themselves with extremism.

A lot more than ISIS want to impose sharia law and a lot of them are so called ordinary muslims.

Trump is playing to his constituency, the same one that would stop Latin American migrants at the border even though they would employ them in their homes, the same ones who would spend time on the gun range at the weekends and of course need military grade weapons for home defense.

The sad thing is that no matter who gets to inherit the White House, the guys that Ike warned about in 1961 are the ones probably running the country.
So no matter who wins, the real guys pulling the strings are The Carlyle Group, Halliburton, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Boeing, etc.

For someone that was given a nobel peace prize, Obama has done a hell of a lot for the Military Industrial complex, not least appointing Ash Carter as secretary of defense.

MightyMandarin

jmayo wrote: »

You do know Islamic Extremism is not solely down to ISIS.
It has existed for a lot longer than ISIS and if you think otherwise you are very deluded.

I didn't say that, but I was just clarifying that that poster's problem was not just with ISIS but with the 1.6bn muslims too.

Again stop equating islamic extremism with ISIS alone.
It has existed before and conservative anti west islamic mindset is being propagated by Saudi backed wahhabists.

Again, I was clarifying that that poster's problem is not just with ISIS (or other islamic extremist groups) but with more than 1/7th of the earth's population.

A lot more than ISIS want to impose sharia law and a lot of them are so called ordinary muslims.

A lot of muslims don't want to impose sharia law. Should the US discriminate against them too?

Trump is playing to his constituency, the same one that would stop Latin American migrants at the border even though they would employ them in their homes, the same ones who would spend time on the gun range at the weekends and of course need military grade weapons for home defense.

I agree with this. He's preying on the weak and less educated sections of American society, but then again, so is the Republican party as a whole. It's a tried and tested method and has worked for far-right and far-left groups for centuries.

fr336

All this blood of real people shed in the name of Gods that NOBODY knows whether they exist! It is far, far more likely they don't. And even if they did, and even if they were somehow 'good', so what? Religion seems to be a heap of contradictions to me. All the while us 'lesser' mortals who..you know...are here and real...suffer for it.

I have no time for those who put religion ahead of their country and real people. I thought people in Ireland would be all for this seeing as most on here seem so keen to do down the Catholic Church...

ancapailldorcha

Discussion of ISIS and extremism is fine along as it is within the confines of this debate. Otherwise, take it somewhere else please.

First Up

Trump represents the biggest crisis to hit the GOP for a long time and the party elders will do whatever it takes to stop him being nominated. There's a good chance he will have imploded long before the Convention but if he makes it as far Cleveland in July, the damage will already be incalculable and could make them un-electable for the foreseeable future, apart from the deepest of the backwoods.

The big business party backers are frantically looking for someone to promote as the "real" candidate. Problem is that apart from ripping the party apart (and Clinton winning by 12-15 points) this farce will leave the GOP without a single credible leader around whom to base a rebuilding programme. It was bad enough after the Bush years - it is several times worse now. US demographics have been moving against the GOP for a long time and someone like Trump is just about as bad a candidate as you can imagine in any of the States that really matter in the Electoral College tally.

Its a crisis of their own making - Tea Party, Fox News, Koch Bros etc. but I'm not sure they have any way of stopping it.

Weatherproof79

jmayo wrote: »

Actually a hell of a lot of the muslim world have an issue with US.
I guess it may have something to do with the way they backed some tin pot dictators down through the years.
Also it may have something to do with fact they are seen as beacon of the western secular world.

Yeah Republicans are the Beacon of the Western Secular World :pac:
To ban 1.6b people from entering/visit your country on the grounds of their religion is madness and there is no justification of it. If you were banned from entering a country because you're Irish you wouldn't like it

my friend

The cheek of some pontificating here reminds me of people defending the price of Irish bank shares circa 2005

If Trump relocates to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue it will be the will of the people, not some imaginary power brokers or back room deals, that's his appeal.

Trump has cross party appeal, he can take democratic votes as he's done more to tangibly benefit blue collar workers than a lot of spoofers in the Democratic Party

I have yet to see an impartial credible analysis of him in any Irish media outlet which really says more about their Democratic Party bias than anything else.

Weatherproof79

my friend wrote: »

The cheek of some pontificating here reminds me of people defending the price of Irish bank shares circa 2005

If Trump relocates to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue it will be the will of the people, not some imaginary power brokers or back room deals, that's his appeal.

Trump has cross party appeal, he can take democratic votes as he's done more to tangibly benefit blue collar workers than a lot of spoofers in the Democratic Party

I have yet to see an impartial credible analysis of him in any Irish media outlet which really says more about their Democratic Party bias than anything else.

Nothing to do with banning 1.6b people from entering the country. You've gone on a dope rant

First Up

my friend wrote:

The cheek of some pontificating here reminds me of people defending the price of Irish bank shares circa 2005

Don't quite get that bit about the bank shares, but no matter.

Anyway, cheer the Donald on if it pleases you. The only people who are cheering him on louder are the Democrats.

my friend

Weatherproof79 wrote: »

Nothing to do with banning 1.6b people from entering the country. You've gone on a dope rant

Care to deal with any specifics contained in my post you quoted or as displayed you merely prefer to respond with a non sensical argument.

FTR 1.6b Muslims wouldn't have been looking to enter the USA irrespective of your shrill claim

Brian?

my friend wrote: »

The cheek of some pontificating here reminds me of people defending the price of Irish bank shares circa 2005

If Trump relocates to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue it will be the will of the people, not some imaginary power brokers or back room deals, that's his appeal.

Trump has cross party appeal, he can take democratic votes as he's done more to tangibly benefit blue collar workers than a lot of spoofers in the Democratic Party

I have yet to see an impartial credible analysis of him in any Irish media outlet which really says more about their Democratic Party bias than anything else.

It's difficult to do a credible analysis on a candidate who's ideas are so off the wall.

my friend

First Up wrote: »

Don't quite get that bit about the bank shares, but no matter.

Anyway, cheer the Donald on if it pleases you. The only people who are cheering him on louder are the Democrats.

The point being that the last time I saw such dismissing arrogance was when Irish bank share values were questioned by me in 2005 and I'm seeing the same arrogance in those dismissing Donald rather than trying to see what's working for him.

Care to address the other parts of my post that you didn't quote or is a rebuttal proving difficult?

my friend

Brian? wrote: »

It's difficult to do a credible analysis on a candidate who's ideas are so off the wall.

You failed before you started.

InTheTrees

my friend wrote: »

Trump has cross party appeal, he can take democratic votes as he's done more to tangibly benefit blue collar workers than a lot of spoofers in the Democratic Party

Okay I'll bite...What has he done for blue collar workers?

First Up

my friend wrote:

The point being that the last time I saw such dismissing arrogance was when Irish bank share values were questioned by me in 2005 and I'm seeing the same arrogance in those dismissing Donald rather than trying to see what's working for him.

Still don't see the connection with the bank shares, unless its because it is the last time you were right about something.

I know what is working for Trump. What matters is who it is working with - and who not.

Amerika

Donald trump probably tanked his candidacy for president with his favoring of a policy of No Muslims into the US. It is not what America is about, even though we’ve had a couple of instances in our history where it has happened. I see a steep drop in his support going forward.

But the fact that anger is growing in the US should be a wake-up call to Muslims here. People are sick and tired of empty platitudes from the Muslim community of condemning acts like the most recent one, ONLY AFTER the event occurs. We and they know radicalization is happening in the US amongst Muslims. They need to realize as a community, in the eyes of the majority of US citizens IMO, there must be something done BEFORE tragedy strikes, and report each other to the authorities when red flags appear... Not turn a blind eye to what is happening in hopes nothing does.

Weatherproof79

my friend wrote: »

Care to deal with any specifics contained in my post you quoted or as displayed you merely prefer to respond with a non sensical argument.

FTR 1.6b Muslims wouldn't have been looking to enter the USA irrespective of your shrill claim

I mentioned him banning 1.6b Muslims from entering the US and you mention Irish shares from 2005 so your specifics have nothing to do with anything regarding thread or what we were talking about so practice what you preach yourself.

That's the whole point 1.6b people are banned from entering purely based on their religion. Obviously 1.6b aren't going to apply to enter the USA but if any of them try they would all be refused it's pretty simple to follow do keep up

The Randy Riverbeast

Amerika wrote: »

Donald trump probably tanked his candidacy for president with his favoring of a policy of No Muslims into the US. It is not what America is about, even though we’ve had a couple of instances in our history where it has happened. I see a steep drop in his support going forward.

But the fact that anger is growing in the US should be a wake-up call to Muslims here. People are sick and tired of empty platitudes from the Muslim community of condemning acts like the most recent one, ONLY AFTER the event occurs. We and they know radicalization is happening in the US amongst Muslims. They need to realize as a community, in the eyes of the majority of US citizens IMO, there must be something done BEFORE tragedy strikes, and report each other to the authorities when red flags appear... Not turn a blind eye to what is happening in hopes nothing does.

People have been saying that for ages in America, except it tends to be aimed at everyone rather than just muslims. It's just when you shout something like "no more baby parts" rather than stuff about snackbars you get empty platitudes with the odd person saying if only the victims had guns they might have stopped it.

MightyMandarin

my friend wrote: »

FTR 1.6b Muslims wouldn't have been looking to enter the USA irrespective of your shrill claim

If doesn't matter if only 1 muslim tries to enter, the principle of banning 1.6bn muslims is wrong. Under Trump's plan, US citizens who are muslim have less of a right to enter than non-US non-muslims. How is that at all fair?

Wompa1

Amerika wrote: »

there must be something done BEFORE tragedy strikes, and report each other to the authorities when red flags appear... Not turn a blind eye to what is happening in hopes nothing does.

How sure are you that they aren't already doing that? There's been a lot more foiled attempts according to the press than there has been attacks. Also, all of the non-Muslim people in the guys workplace and neighborhood also didn't report because they didn't see it coming. Why would it be any different for Muslims?

The guy that shot up the Planned Parenthood was handing out anti-Obama leaflets, spoke openly about his views to neighbors and had a temper.

Not liking this country and the way things are doesn't necessarily mean a person is going to launch an attack.

my friend

InTheTrees wrote: »

Okay I'll bite...What has he done for blue collar workers?

I'll ignore your sarcastic confusion and expend the patience to educate you, Trump has been a great friend of union labour, he has engaged Union labour on tens of billions of dollars projects throughout his development career, it's quite possible that he will win the support of many if not almost all unions, this is why the Democrats fear Trump .

FTR: It's laughable that someone merely trying to open the uninitiated eyes of sheep is labelled a supporter, typical Irish mob mentality , well done all concerned, take a bow.

ancapailldorcha

my friend wrote: »

FTR: It's laughable that someone merely trying to open the uninitiated eyes of sheep is labelled a supporter, typical Irish mob mentality , well done all concerned, take a bow.

Do not post in this thread again.

meepins

First Up wrote: »

The big business party backers are frantically looking for someone to promote as the "real" candidate

Oy vey who are they? They can't stand someone promoting the interests of actual americans so I expect they will flip over to the other side when it's clear Cruz can't win if it isn't already. He's a smart guy, good debater but too religious to have a broader appeal.

Its a crisis of their own making - Tea Party, Fox News, Koch Bros etc. but I'm not sure they have any way of stopping it.

It's of their own making in that they have allowed the left to destroy the demographics of the country.Conservatives deluded themselves for so long that they could win over hispanic immigrants (the natural conservatives) and black voters with their ideas. It will never happen and I think the popularity of Trump shows the shift in conciousness among voters on the right, they are realising the GOP won't work in their interests. The best thing for them is for it to implode.

MightyMandarin

my friend wrote: »

this is why the Democrats fear Trump .

FTR: It's laughable that someone merely trying to open the uninitiated eyes of sheep is labelled a supporter, typical Irish mob mentality , well done all concerned, take a bow.

Democrats don't fear Trump, they love him. The longer he stays in the race, the further the GOP sinks in public opinion and with that Hillary's lead grows.

I knew you'd bring out the 'sheeple' argument sooner or later.

First Up

meepins wrote: »

Oy vey who are they? They can't stand someone promoting the interests of actual americans so I expect they will flip over to the other side when it's clear Cruz can't win if it isn't already. He's a smart guy, good debater but too religious to have a broader appeal.



It's of their own making in that they have allowed the left to destroy the demographics of the country.Conservatives deluded themselves for so long that they could win over hispanic immigrants (the natural conservatives) and black voters with their ideas. It will never happen and I think the popularity of Trump shows the shift in conciousness among voters on the right, they are realising the GOP won't work in their interests. The best thing for them is for it to implode.

I take it that by "actual Americans", you don't mean the Apache, Cherokee, Shawnee or Sioux.....

Care to tell me how "the left" destroyed the demographics?

First Up

Nominee or not, Dems See Trump as Big Asset

By Caitlin Huey-Burns
December 08, 2015

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/12/08/dems_victory_plan_paint_the_gop_trump.html

Democrats have delighted in Donald Trump’s four-months-and-counting lead over the Republican field and the controversies that come with it — the latest, his call to ban all Muslims from entering the United States after the terrorist attacks in San Bernadino, Calif., last week.

But it’s not because Democrats think he will be the Republican nominee — a case that even Republicans worry would hand Democrats victories up and down the ballot. It’s because they believe the business mogul has damaged the GOP brand to an irreversible degree and given them a leg up in the November election.

“Thank God for Donald Trump,” says Bill Press, a radio show host and former chairman of the Democratic Party in California. “I think he's the best thing that’s ever happened to the Democratic Party this year, because Donald Trump’s the new face of the Republican Party, no doubt about it.”