2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

Overheal

http://mediaite.com has a lot of coverage about his phone interviews today. Some of them are very eye opening. The guy is off his rocker and a serious threat to national security.

eire4

AbusesToilets wrote: »

20-30rds is not a large capacity magazine, it's the standard. Banning those is not going to effect anything, more typical scare mongering.

It might save some lives if those attempting to commit mass murder have to take more time to reload. That is a good thing in my opinion.

eire4

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Donald Trump calls to ban all Muslims entering America

How much further can this rhetoric go? Deporting every last Muslim out of the US? It's getting all a bit too edgy now imo. Far too much persecution of muslims entering/in the US imo.

I have said it before the guy is a classic demagogue and a vile human being. When leaders or other high profile people spew forth the kind of hate and at times outright racism and bigotry that Trump does it is not a surprise when soon after you start to see some people in the general public start to act on the hate and if people like Trump are able to continue putting out their hate longer and longer the more and more likely you are to see people acting on it.

eire4

frostyjacks wrote: »

If your country is at war, why should you allow the enemy to send their people in unhindered? It's only a temporary measure anyway. He's putting his country and his people first, instead of some highfalutin ideals that are going to end up getting more people killed.

If your referring to Syrian refuges they already have to go through a very long and detailed process before being allowed in so I see no reason whatsoever that should be stopped at all. These are the very people we all should be helping. They are trying to escape terrorism and persecution.
There is no way Trump is putting anything other then his own political ambitions first. He is using as the classic demagogue he is the fears and prejudices of many Americans to further his own ambitions regardless of the consequences.

eire4

frostyjacks wrote: »

I'd rather upset a few pinko liberals than risk letting some psychopathic terrorists into the country.

Very telling analysis with the above.
In the real world in the US your way more likely to be killed by domestic terrorists of various different strips. In fact your 8 times more likely in the US to be killed by the cops then by a terrorists.

eire4

my friend wrote: »

I'd take Trump over the spineless Obama any day

I am no fan of Obama at all. But Trump an openly racist and bigoted demagogue no thank you.

eire4

First Up wrote: »

Well the poster above seems to think Obama hasn't murdered nearly enough.

I know when you consider how many innocent people have been killed by US drone strikes alone. Obama may be many things but willing to kill a lot of people that is not something he has shown a reluctance to do.

KenjiOdo

I hope Trump wins.

A Superpower needs someone like him in office with strong views, ideals & opinions!

MightyMandarin

KenjiOdo wrote: »

I hope Trump wins.

A Superpower needs someone like him in office with strong views, ideals & opinions!

Hitler and Stalin fitted that description too. Does the US need one of them?

ancapailldorcha

From the Economist:



Sadly, it appears that he's going nowhere any time soon.

Sometimes it seems like he's a plant for the Democrats tbh. He's preventing an actual candidate getting any traction at at all.

20Cent

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sometimes it seems like he's a plant for the Democrats tbh. He's preventing an actual candidate getting any traction at at all.

He said that Bill Clinton encouraged him to run!
Would like to have been a fly on the wall for that conversation.

Amerika

eire4 wrote: »

I am no fan of Obama at all. But Trump an openly racist and bigoted demagogue no thank you.

Maybe not. If you really want to see what is going on with Donald Trump right now, read his book “The Art Of The Deal.” It would help to explain his philosophy. He said if you go into negotiations, you must be 100% serious... And you start out with the most outrageous demands possible. You then make concessions though negotiations to finally come to the point you really meant to get to in the first place. I think he is using that strategy right now in regards to the issues of illegal immigration and Islamic terrorism in America. People might be too accustomed to politicians rather than businessman in campaigns, and could be missing what is the ultimate goal of Trump.

20Cent

Wonder what the Muslim troops serving in the US army feel about all this.

Skylinehead

20Cent wrote: »

Wonder what the Muslim troops serving in the US army feel about all this.

I doubt anybody in the US armed forces likes Trump much, considering his John McCain comments.

frostyjacks

Lots of hand wringing about how dangerous and divisive Trump is, as if it was his supporters who went round Paris shooting civilians.

The poll results are pretty shocking. 25% agreed that violence against America was justified. 51% want to see Sharia law there. Why the hell would you allow these people into your country? There has to be some sort of control in place.

Brian?

frostyjacks wrote: »

Lots of hand wringing about how dangerous and divisive Trump is, as if it was his supporters who went round Paris shooting civilians.

The poll results are pretty shocking. 25% agreed that violence against America was justified. 51% want to see Sharia law there. Why the hell would you allow these people into your country? There has to be some sort of control in place.

There is already a control in place. Why do you think there isn't?

The Randy Riverbeast

frostyjacks wrote: »

Lots of hand wringing about how dangerous and divisive Trump is, as if it was his supporters who went round Paris shooting civilians.

The poll results are pretty shocking. 25% agreed that violence against America was justified. 51% want to see Sharia law there. Why the hell would you allow these people into your country? There has to be some sort of control in place.

If wanting religious based laws is enough to prevent you from entering the country the south will become a very empty place.

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

Maybe not. If you really want to see what is going on with Donald Trump right now, read his book “The Art Of The Deal.” It would help to explain his philosophy. He said if you go into negotiations, you must be 100% serious... And you start out with the most outrageous demands possible. You then make concessions though negotiations to finally come to the point you really meant to get to in the first place. I think he is using that strategy right now in regards to the issues of illegal immigration and Islamic terrorism in America. People might be too accustomed to politicians rather than businessman in campaigns, and could be missing what is the ultimate goal of Trump.

That's an interesting point you have made here Amerika. But my understanding of "The Art of the Deal" was that such negotiations were not made from a public podium with insults, and hate-filled divisive statements that drives people apart to where it becomes personal, and they would not accept your deal no matter how good it looked on paper later.

Rather, methinks that the Trump 2016 presidential nomination strategy exemplifies that of "King Fish" Huey Long, former LA governor and US Senator in terms of how he is orchestrating the news media to his advantage, which ultimately affects his high poll results. To paraphrase: Good news is the best news, bad news is second best, and no news is bad news for a politician.

MightyMandarin

MPFGLB wrote: »

I think Trump must be a long term Islamist terrorist sleeper ....as he is there biggest recruiter

I think most muslim americans know that he's a racist and what he's saying is just to get the right-wing radical racists licking their lips. If I were a muslim american I'd have enough faith that the american people would never elect a person like him.

MightyMandarin

frostyjacks wrote: »

Lots of hand wringing about how dangerous and divisive Trump is, as if it was his supporters who went round Paris shooting civilians.

The poll results are pretty shocking. 25% agreed that violence against America was justified. 51% want to see Sharia law there. Why the hell would you allow these people into your country? There has to be some sort of control in place.

1- There already is a control, a heavily scrutinized one at that. Stop scaremongering and acting as if any old syrian can hop on a plane to JFK and settle in the US.

2- There's a hell of a lot of americans who want abortion outlawed and homosexuals to have limited rights simply because their religion tells them so (or so they think it does). Should they be deported? Or can they stay because they're predominately white and republican-voting, christians? It must also be said that there are a lot of them who are voting for Trump.

3- There's also many of those people who I described previously, who see no problem with attacking abortion clinics, such as the attack on one in Colorado last week. Are these people justified in attacking american institutions (planned parenthood) and killing american people on american soil? or are they exempt because, again, they're predominately white, republican-voting christians?

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

If you really want to see what is going on with Donald Trump right now, read his book “The Art Of The Deal.” It would help to explain his philosophy... People might be too accustomed to politicians rather than businessman in campaigns, and could be missing what is the ultimate goal of Trump.

Upon closer reading, the way that Trump manipulates the news media (aka press) follows his strategy with them today (although this is not an exclusive business strategy, rather a media manipulating one). Page 56 in his 1987 book:

"One thing I've learned about the press is that they're always hungry for a good story, and the more sensational the better... The point is that if you are a little different, or a little outrageous, or you do things that are bold or controversial, the press is going to write about you."

Here Trump and Huey Long would perhaps agree regarding how to orchestrate the news media, mostly for free, while the established GOP candidates have to pay millions.

hatrickpatrick

Manach wrote: »

The insurgent campaign Mr. Trump is running where he combines his populist acumen as well as presenting himself was the ultimate outsider to the political establishment is worrying the GOP. For instance funders are actually comtemplating moving to the Hillary camp (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/elections-2016/article48067815.html). Interesting times.

The fact that they would consider that prove what a hawk Hillary really is. God help us if either her or any of the Republican candidates so far get in

MonkeyTennis

frostyjacks wrote: »

Lots of hand wringing about how dangerous and divisive Trump is, as if it was his supporters who went round Paris shooting civilians.

The poll results are pretty shocking. 25% agreed that violence against America was justified. 51% want to see Sharia law there. Why the hell would you allow these people into your country? There has to be some sort of control in place.

What is the source of those stats? It wouldnt be teh Center for Security Policy by any chance? Frank Gaffneys group?? Hint hint .. cough cough.

PopePalpatine

I'd say the biggest thing stopping Westboro Baptist Church types from launching a Da'esh-esque crusade would be that they still have electoral influence.

frostyjacks

MightyMandarin wrote: »

1- There already is a control, a heavily scrutinized one at that. Stop scaremongering and acting as if any old syrian can hop on a plane to JFK and settle in the US.

2- There's a hell of a lot of americans who want abortion outlawed and homosexuals to have limited rights simply because their religion tells them so (or so they think it does). Should they be deported? Or can they stay because they're predominately white and republican-voting, christians? It must also be said that there are a lot of them who are voting for Trump.

3- There's also many of those people who I described previously, who see no problem with attacking abortion clinics, such as the attack on one in Colorado last week. Are these people justified in attacking american institutions (planned parenthood) and killing american people on american soil? or are they exempt because, again, they're predominately white, republican-voting christians?

If someone attacks an abortion clinic, then of course they should be punished, regardless of whether I think it's right or wrong. What Trump wants is to prevent crimes before they happen.

MightyMandarin

frostyjacks wrote: »

If someone attacks an abortion clinic, then of course they should be punished, regardless of whether I think it's right or wrong. What Trump wants is to prevent crimes before they happen.

And yet he still sees no problem with any crazy person getting their hands on a rifle through minimal gun restrictions. How very proactive of him indeed.

K-9

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I think most muslim americans know that he's a racist and what he's saying is just to get the right-wing radical racists licking their lips. If I were a muslim american I'd have enough faith that the american people would never elect a person like him.

The problem is with him doing so well in the polls, it encourages these attitutudes and gives them oxygen. I know if I was Muslim, or hell, looked like one , I'd be very wary in America now.

Black Swan wrote: »

Upon closer reading, the way that Trump manipulates the news media (aka press) follows his strategy with them today (although this is not an exclusive business strategy, rather a media manipulating one). Page 56 in his 1987 book:

"One thing I've learned about the press is that they're always hungry for a good story, and the more sensational the better... The point is that if you are a little different, or a little outrageous, or you do things that are bold or controversial, the press is going to write about you."

Here Trump and Huey Long would perhaps agree regarding how to orchestrate the news media, mostly for free, while the established GOP candidates have to pay millions.

That was pre internet, twitter, facebook and blogs so it's even more valid now.

jmayo

Weatherproof79 wrote: »

jmayo wrote: »

Actually a hell of a lot of the muslim world have an issue with US.
I guess it may have something to do with the way they backed some tin pot dictators down through the years.
Also it may have something to do with fact they are seen as beacon of the western secular world.

Yeah Republicans are the Beacon of the Western Secular World :pac:
To ban 1.6b people from entering/visit your country on the grounds of their religion is madness and there is no justification of it. If you were banned from entering a country because you're Irish you wouldn't like it

For a start not every Republican is a rabid eejit like Trump or the Teaparty.
And when you compare them to what passes for politicans in a fair chunk of the muslim world, then fecking hell even Trump seems enlightened,

And will you stop with this hypebole that suddenly 1.6 billion people can't enter the US.
Was every muslim on their way there before this ?

my friend wrote: »

The cheek of some pontificating here reminds me of people defending the price of Irish bank shares circa 2005

If Trump relocates to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue it will be the will of the people, not some imaginary power brokers or back room deals, that's his appeal.

Actually if you think that any of the candidates that are the major players in both parties are there without serious financial backers then you are seriously deluded.
There are always backroom deals.
How else did McCain end up with that mare from Alaska as his running mate.

The will of the people ?
Need I remind you of the Florida outcome in 2000 election. :rolleyes:

eire4 wrote: »

If your referring to Syrian refuges they already have to go through a very long and detailed process before being allowed in so I see no reason whatsoever that should be stopped at all. These are the very people we all should be helping. They are trying to escape terrorism and persecution.
There is no way Trump is putting anything other then his own political ambitions first. He is using as the classic demagogue he is the fears and prejudices of many Americans to further his own ambitions regardless of the consequences.

Ah yes the Syrians, the Syrians.
These would be the same Syrians that account for just about 2/3 rds of the refugees wandering around Europe ?
Also it is funny that it is mostly the men we see that are escaping the terrorism and persecution.
Obviously it is tough shyte for the women and children.

The US has long had problems with not alone Syrians and has been in a defacto war with certain muslims for decades.
The funny thing is a lot of them come from their allies like Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

MPFGLB wrote: »

I think Trump must be a long term Islamist terrorist sleeper ....as he is their biggest recruiter

Why is there this huge fear that if anyone says boo against muslims that everyone of them will run off to join a terrorist organisation or heaven forbid ISIS.
Frankly I think it is a bit insulting.

When someone mentioned Ireland and IRA, it reminded me of fact that not every Irish person that found anti Irish spanners in UK, including some of their politicians, didn't automatically join the IRA.

K-9 wrote: »

The problem is with him doing so well in the polls, it encourages these attitutudes and gives them oxygen. I know if I was Muslim, or hell, looked like one , I'd be very wary in America now.

I was in US actually flying weeks after 911 and one Sikh from London had to return home due to hassel he was getting out and about.

BTW I have always been wary in US, too many people with high powered guns and shag all cop on for me.

jmayo

MPFGLB wrote: »

Firstly it isn't just saying ' boo against Muslims' ...its a call to ban a whole segment of society from entering the US by an US presidential candidate for no valid reason but ignorance...its is moreover unconstitutional and an incitement to hatred

We know it isn't just saying boo and does sound pretty narrowminded and bigoted.
Won't say racist because it is anti religion rather than anti one particular race.

MPFGLB wrote: »

Secondly no one says "everyone of them will run off to join a terrorist organisation or heaven forbid ISIS." ...It only takes a few...<0.000001% to repeat an attack like Paris...

You have to admit that there is a mindset at play that one cannot say anything bad about muslims, with particular reference to their religion, lest it poke the hornets nest.
Remember those cartoons.

MPFGLB wrote: »

But heaven forbid you might be insulted and not the million law abiding Muslims throughout the world :rolleyes:

It would take a lot more to insult me. I reckon they (i.e. muslims) might be insulted and they definitely will be seeing your figures.

Are you saying that approx 1.599 billion aren't law abiding.
Feckin hell no wonder Trump is saying what he is saying.