2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

MonkeyTennis

As far as I am concerned there is NO defending his behaviour at this stage. He has thrown false statistics about like its some kind of rationale for his ridiculous and unfeasible plans.

Hes lack of real knowledge of issues at home and abroad is completely unsuitable for a man who is running for President and in my opinion dangerous at this stage. Hopefully he will have to withdraw.

Amerika

Donald Trump hates Muslims! Donald Trump won’t let any Muslims into the US! Do I have the Talking Points correct?

But what is Trump actually calling for and his reasoning for it?

Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. Because we can't identify what their attitude is.

The Center for Security Policy has stated that a quarter of Muslims living in the U.S. believe violence against Americans is justified as part of a global jihadist campaign.

So Trump states "Great surveillance and vigilance must be adhered to," We want to be very fair but too many bad things are happening and the percentage of true hatred is too great. People that are looking to destroy our country must be reported and turned in by the good people who love our country and want America to be great again."

And Trump confirmed that his policy would not apply to current Muslims in the U.S.

So all he’s really calling for is a temporary ban on a group of people that we, at this juncture, cannot identify which ones are entering with intent to do harm in America. Politically correct, definitely not. Political suicide, perhaps. But deal with a couple more terrorist attacks around the world by Islamic Terrorists, I’ll bet he won’t seem so crazy to a lot more people.

And I think the attention he has garnered has already helped in forcing our government do a better job of vetting people coming into the country. (Other than the southern border that is, which the US government considers a free-for-all entry point)

And he’ll roll back his outrageous demands to a compromise position for what Congress will actually allow him to do. It’s called negotiating.

MonkeyTennis

Amerika wrote: »

The Center for Security Policy


.

Here's your and Donalds problem right here. Do you know who these people are? Its not an official agency or anything like it

Black Swan

After outsider Trump's proclaimed banning of Muslim entry into the USA, with the exception of Ted Cruz, most established GOP presidential candidates have attempted to distance themselves from Trump, not wanting to be painted the same Trump discriminatory colour. Other non-candidate Republicans worry about this image problem too, with newly minted Speaker of the House Paul Ryan condemning Trump's anti-Muslim religion position.

Perhaps Ted Cruz's favourable recent comments regarding Trump's stand on immigration may be an early signal that he may be willing to run as Trump's VP? If such a pair-up were to occur for November 2016, it would be truly a craic, given that Trump was an Obama-birther, and Ted Cruz was born in Canada and had been a Canadian citizen. Trump might consider Cruz in an attempt to win Texas, the 2nd largest EC state, while at the same time trying to attract some voters from the largest minority voting block to vote for the first Hispanic vice president.

It's still too early to see how Trump's anti-Muslim comments will impact on his overall Republican lead in several individual tracking polls. The most recent USA/Suffolk poll (taken 2-6 Dec) listed by RCP actually showed an increase from its last administration (24-28 Sept) increasing from 23 to 27% for Trump.

Thargor

Amerika wrote: »

Donald Trump hates Muslims! Donald Trump won’t let any Muslims into the US! Do I have the Talking Points correct?

But what is Trump actually calling for and his reasoning for it?

Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. Because we can't identify what their attitude is.

The Center for Security Policy has stated that a quarter of Muslims living in the U.S. believe violence against Americans is justified as part of a global jihadist campaign.

So Trump states "Great surveillance and vigilance must be adhered to," We want to be very fair but too many bad things are happening and the percentage of true hatred is too great. People that are looking to destroy our country must be reported and turned in by the good people who love our country and want America to be great again."

And Trump confirmed that his policy would not apply to current Muslims in the U.S.

So all he’s really calling for is a temporary ban on a group of people that we, at this juncture, cannot identify which ones are entering with intent to do harm in America. Politically correct, definitely not. Political suicide, perhaps. But deal with a couple more terrorist attacks around the world by Islamic Terrorists, I’ll bet he won’t seem so crazy to a lot more people.

And I think the attention he has garnered has already helped in forcing our government do a better job of vetting people coming into the country. (Other than the southern border that is, which the US government considers a free-for-all entry point)

And he’ll roll back his outrageous demands to a compromise position for what Congress will actually allow him to do. It’s called negotiating.

Funny how nobody trustworthy seems to be able to replicate the results of that "Center for Security Policy" poll isnt it

The Center for Security Policy (CSP) is a national security think tank based in Washington, DC that has been widely accused of engaging in conspiracy theorizing by a range of individuals, media outlets and organizations. Its activities are focused on what it claims is a secret, global campaign to destroy western civilization.

Utterly pathetic defending this policy even by your low standards in these thread Amerika. Your "group of people" is a significant percentage of the human race.

Amerika

Thargor wrote: »

Funny how nobody trustworthy seems to be able to replicate the results of that "Center for Security Policy" poll isnt it

Utterly pathetic defending this policy even by your low standards in these thread Amerika. Your "group of people" is a significant percentage of the human race.

Is their data incorrect? Do you have anything other than ad hominem attacks and equally idealistic opinions to discredit their findings? Perhaps their sampling was too small, or their extrapolation of the data was askew. But if that was the case, it would discredit a whole lot of other findings from other research firms many here like to source.

MonkeyTennis

They are not in any shape or form a reputable source. (Im being polite)

eire4

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

They are not in any shape or form a reputable source. (Im being polite)

I would say your being very polite to put it mildy. Lets be clear Trump's openly racist and bigoted out pourings are completely beyond the pale. They really have been for quite some time. But they have now I think reached a pitch where he is giving those who hate the US internationally plenty of material to say look see how bad America is and how much they hate you. He is at this point a terrorists recruitment dream.

eire4

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I think most muslim americans know that he's a racist and what he's saying is just to get the right-wing radical racists licking their lips. If I were a muslim american I'd have enough faith that the american people would never elect a person like him.

Thats what many people in Illinois said last November about Bruce Rauner and then low and behold he won and is now Illinois goverernor. I think your right and it is unlikely Trump will end up president. But I would not get too complacent about it. A very large chunk of Americans have either given up completely with the political system in the US given how obviously corrupted and dysfunctional it is and don't or rarely vote. Turnout in American elections is low and of those who do turn out the constituency that is probably the most reliable in terms of voting is the far right which is exactly who Trump is pandering to.

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

And he’ll roll back his outrageous demands to a compromise position for what Congress will actually allow him to do. It’s called negotiating.

No, his 1987 book did not specifically suggest that inciting religious hatred or fanning the flames of terrorist fear should be a part of a successful business negotiation strategy. He only (generically) suggested on page 56 that the media could be manipulated by sensationalist and controversial statements to give him free press coverage.

The troubling side effect of Trump's hate-filled speech is that he may drive some US Muslim citizens, as well as overseas Muslims, towards not cooperating with US authorities in the detection of potential terrorists, or worse, allow some of those Muslims to sympathise or aid or join those terrorists. But Trump only wants to get nominated and elected, and does not seem to care about the consequences of what he says. Furthermore, his religious discriminatory statements may encourage some bigoted citizens to act against US citizens that are of the Muslim faith.

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

No, his 1987 book did not specifically suggest that inciting religious hatred or fanning the flames of terrorist fear should be a part of a successful business negotiation strategy. He only (generically) suggested on page 56 that the media could be manipulated by sensationalist and controversial statements to give him free press coverage.

The troubling side effect of Trump's hate-filled speech is that he may drive some US Muslim citizens, as well as overseas Muslims, towards not cooperating with US authorities in the detection of potential terrorists, or worse, allow some of those Muslims to sympathise or aid or join those terrorists. But Trump only wants to get nominated and elected, and does not seem to care about the consequences of what he says. Furthermore, his religious discriminatory statements may encourage some bigoted citizens to act against US citizens that are of the Muslim faith.

come si, come sa. As Carly Fiorina stated: "Trump's over-reaction is as dangerous as Obama's under-reaction"

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

come si, come sa. As Carly Fiorina stated: "Trump's over-reaction is as dangerous as Obama's under-reaction"

Citing Obama's failures does not excuse Trump for his failures (or Carly Fiorina for her HP failure).

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

Citing Obama's failures does not excuse Trump for his failures (or Carly Fiorina for her HP failure).

Since Hillary Clinton's presidency will essentially be an Obama third term, it does have bearing on how the US is perceived by Muslims. (And HP is still going strong... isn't it?)

MonkeyTennis

Fiorini.. is this the same woman who still talks about Planned Parenthood selling baby parts.. that Carly Fiorinini?

I dont think I trust her judgement on anything

KenjiOdo

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Hitler and Stalin fitted that description too. Does the US need one of them?

So did Ghandi and Mandela, whats your point?

MonkeyTennis

Its the top of Trumps bedsheet costume?

*kidding*

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

Since Hillary Clinton's presidency will essentially be an Obama third term, it does have bearing on how the US is perceived by Muslims. (And HP is still going strong... isn't it?)

According to Fortune (21 September 2015), Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina had a "disastrous record as HP's CEO," and had been fired by the board of directors accordingly. Her inflated and terribly misleading performance numbers she spouts campaigning today were the result of HP acquiring failing Compaq. Simply adding the two corporate balance sheets together before-and-after acquisition, then saying gee, I increased sales and patents did not fool the WS analysts, HP board of directors, or shareholders, who look for increased equity performance and value. HP stock jumped up in price the moment the news broke that she had been fired. Following the merger, she dumped 30,000 employees into the unemployment lines, not exactly a job creator.

As to Hillary Clinton's performance as president in comparison to Obama, the last I heard she had not been elected yet, so I am very uncertain how to measure such performance before it occurs.

ancapailldorcha

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

Its the top of Trumps bedsheet costume?

*kidding*

This is a forum for serious discourse, not one-liners and soundbytes. Please read the charter before posting again.

Jawgap

Probably a bigger deal in the UK than the US, but the timing is interesting.

In fact it'll probably boost his ratings among certain constituencies in the US.

Trump attended fundraiser for Sinn Féin before London terror attack

Donald Trump attended a Sinn Féin fundraising dinner in New York just months before the party’s allies in the Provisional IRA ended its ceasefire with a massive terror attack in London’s Canary Wharf district.

As controversy rages over the Republican presidential candidate’s demand that Muslims be barred from the United States to prevent Islamist terror attacks, footage has emerged of the tycoon shaking hands with Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2ZPcPHJAno

MightyMandarin

KenjiOdo wrote: »

So did Ghandi and Mandela, whats your point?

Having 'strong views, ideals and opinions' is a totally pointless reason to vote for someone.

Hitler had strong opinions, Stalin had strong opinions, even ISIS have strong opinions for god's sake. Vote/support someone you agree with, not someone who shouts the loudest, though it seems you've already made that mistake.

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

According to Fortune (21 September 2015), Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina had a "disastrous record as HP's CEO," and had been fired by the board of directors accordingly. Her inflated and terribly misleading performance numbers she spouts campaigning today were the result of HP acquiring failing Compaq. Simply adding the two corporate balance sheets together before-and-after acquisition, then saying gee, I increased sales and patents did not fool the WS analysts, HP board of directors, or shareholders, who look for increased equity performance and value. HP stock jumped up in price the moment the news broke that she had been fired. Following the merger, she dumped 30,000 employees into the unemployment lines, not exactly a job creator.

We've battled this before... How did the other tech giants fair at the same time... weren't even more layoffs going to happen if the merger didn't occur... was not the biggest problem at HP the culture clashes between the executives from the two companies...

As to Hillary Clinton's performance as president in comparison to Obama, the last I heard she had not been elected yet, so I am very uncertain how to measure such performance before it occurs.

You don't seem to have much trouble forecasting how Trump and Fiorina will do. Much of what Hillary has been saying on the campaign trail seems to a continuation of Obama's plans. Or don't you believe her (now THAT I can understand )?

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

Much of what Hillary has been saying on the campaign trail seems to a continuation of Obama's plans.

And thats why she will be the next president.

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

You don't seem to have much trouble forecasting how Trump and Fiorina will do.

No, my focus has been on qualifications for office in terms of education, training, and past job-related experiences that could be objectively verified, and were preparatory for the presidency. Neither Trump, Carson, or Fiorina are qualified for the highest position in US government. Although I don't care for any of the remaining declared Republican or Democrat candidates for 2016 based upon the same criteria, they are all more qualified than Trump, Carson, and Fiorina.

Whether Trump was running for president or not, what has been coming out of his mouth has not benefited the American people in terms of bringing them together to face mutual problems and solve them. Rather with his telly celebrity status he has been frequently saying things that were divisive (not unifying), appealing to hate-filled discriminatory prejudices that several citizens may have against Muslims, Mexicans, immigrants, and in particular against POW veteran John McCain, and ridicule-impersonating handicapped reporter Serge Kovaleski while speaking from the podium. If he is divisive now, pitting people against each other, what does this suggest about his future addresses from the podium if elected?

Black Swan

Petition to ban Trump from entering the UK now has passed 300,000 signatures which may require it to be debated in Parliament. It's doubtful that Parliament will pass such a measure, but it does make a statement about Trump's anti-Muslim hate-provoking speech.

jmayo

Black Swan wrote: »

After outsider Trump's proclaimed banning of Muslim entry into the USA, with the exception of Ted Cruz, most established GOP presidential candidates have attempted to distance themselves from Trump, not wanting to be painted the same Trump discriminatory colour. Other non-candidate Republicans worry about this image problem too, with newly minted Speaker of the House Paul Ryan condemning Trump's anti-Muslim religion position.

The possible great white hope of the GOP has spoken.

Black Swan wrote: »

Perhaps Ted Cruz's favourable recent comments regarding Trump's stand on immigration may be an early signal that he may be willing to run as Trump's VP? If such a pair-up were to occur for November 2016, it would be truly a craic, given that Trump was an Obama-birther, and Ted Cruz was born in Canada and had been a Canadian citizen. Trump might consider Cruz in an attempt to win Texas, the 2nd largest EC state, while at the same time trying to attract some voters from the largest minority voting block to vote for the first Hispanic vice president.

How can he become vice president ?
I thought the US Constitution stated that for election to the office of President or Vice President one had to be a natural born citizen ?

Is he using the same argument used by McCain to claim natural born through his parent i.e. his mother ?

Black Swan wrote: »

...
The troubling side effect of Trump's hate-filled speech is that he may drive some US Muslim citizens, as well as overseas Muslims, towards not cooperating with US authorities in the detection of potential terrorists, or worse, allow some of those Muslims to sympathise or aid or join those terrorists. But Trump only wants to get nominated and elected, and does not seem to care about the consequences of what he says. Furthermore, his religious discriminatory statements may encourage some bigoted citizens to act against US citizens that are of the Muslim faith.

I think a lot of muslims world wide already hate the US and would do nothing to cooperate anyway.

The big thing you have pointed to is worrying fact some gun toting good old boys might just use Trump's reasoning to go shoot up some muslims in the US.

oscarBravo

jmayo wrote: »

The big thing you have pointed to is worrying fact some gun toting good old boys might just use Trump's reasoning to go shoot up some muslims in the US.

Well, we've already seen at least one gun-toting good old boy use Fiorina's reasoning to go shoot up a women's health clinic, so it wouldn't be surprising.

Permabear

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Permabear

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oscarBravo

Permabear wrote: »

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And in my view, efforts to distance Republican candidates' constant repetition of what they know to be lies about Planned Parenthood from the actions of terrorists who are motivated by those or similar lies are equally nonsensical.

I'm not saying that Dear was directly inspired by Fiorina's words, but she and others have not been afraid to make political hay from the bare-faced lies that have been spread about Planned Parenthood; if someone shoots up a women's health clinic while repeating those lies, then she can't be completely absolved of responsibility.

Permabear

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