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2016 US Presidential Race - Mod Warning in OP

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Comments

  • #2942
    KenjiOdo
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭KenjiOdo


    MightyMandarin wrote: »
    Exactly, so you want a candidate who has views you share. That's fine. My problem was saying you wanted a candidate with 'strong views, opinions' etc. because that means nothing; every candidate has strong views and opinions, you just mightn't agree with them.

    I thought that was implied by my original post. Read the first line.
    KenjiOdo wrote: »
    I hope Trump wins.

    A Superpower needs someone like him in office with strong views, ideals & opinions!

    You've gone about dissecting my post(s) for some unknown reason. You've also gone on to try equate him as Hitler/Stalin/ISIS, twice now?
    MightyMandarin wrote: »
    Honestly, who cares if nobody heard of Obama before he ran for president? I honestly didn't know of Merkel, Putin, Hollande, Xi Jinping or any other world leader (aside from Cameron) before they became leaders of their country, and the fact I didn't (and I tend to follow politics a fair bit) means nothing in terms of their stature.

    Germany is not a superpower. Neither is the UK or France. Russia/China?
    MightyMandarin wrote: »
    Besides, Trump is not a man of stature. His notoriety comes from the fact that he hosted the apprentice, got a massive inheritance from his rich father and tends to piss off people wherever he goes. He also was on WWE a few years back where he bodyslammed Vince McMahon.

    He's an entertainer and a clown and regardless of the the fact that he's a massive racist, liar, bully and just a general asshole, he's just not a man of stature who I'd be proud to represent my country.

    Trump has conquered the business world. Worth a considerable amount of money, and I'm sure he has sway with a lot of (important) people. Unless you have personal first-experience with his personality/demeanour/attitude, I'd imagine some of that is hearsay. Who are you to deny his stature, Bill Gates? :rolleyes:


  • #2943
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    KenjiOdo wrote: »
    I thought that was implied by my original post. Read the first line.



    You've gone about dissecting my post(s) for some unknown reason. You've also gone on to try equate him as Hitler/Stalin/ISIS, twice now?



    Germany is not a superpower. Neither is the UK or France. Russia/China?



    Trump has conquered the business world. Worth a considerable amount of money, and I'm sure he has sway with a lot of (important) people. Unless you have personal first-experience with his personality/demeanour/attitude, I'd imagine some of that is hearsay. Who are you to deny his stature, Bill Gates? :rolleyes:

    Trump has "conquered the business world"? He inhereted a billion dollars and managed not to lose it all. He has conquered nothing.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #2944
    KenjiOdo
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭KenjiOdo


    Brian? wrote: »
    Trump has "conquered the business world"? He inhereted a billion dollars and managed not to lose it all. He has conquered nothing.

    he lost it alright (most) then made back 10..


  • #2945
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    KenjiOdo wrote: »


    Trump has conquered the business world. Worth a considerable amount of money, and I'm sure he has sway with a lot of (important) people. Unless you have personal first-experience with his personality/demeanour/attitude, I'd imagine some of that is hearsay. Who are you to deny his stature, Bill Gates? :rolleyes:


    What part of it exactly are you implying is hearsay?


  • #2946
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    KenjiOdo wrote: »
    he lost it alright (most) then made back 10..

    Made 10 billion? He's only worth 4. If he'd stuck his inherence in a deposit account he'd bet better off. So what did he conquer?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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  • #2947
    KenjiOdo
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭KenjiOdo


    Brian? wrote: »
    Made 10 billion? He's only worth 4. If he'd stuck his inherence in a deposit account he'd bet better off. So what did he conquer?

    $10B is from the horses mouth, he was down to around $40M. Where's your source?

    If's & but's...


  • #2948
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    KenjiOdo wrote: »
    $10B is from the horses mouth, he was down to around $40M. Where's your source?

    If's & but's...

    Would you care to respond to my earlier question?


  • #2949
    KenjiOdo
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭KenjiOdo


    Nodin wrote: »
    What part of it exactly are you implying is hearsay?

    Did you read my post in reply to MightyMandarin?
    KenjiOdo wrote: »
    Unless you have personal first-experience with his personality/demeanour/attitude, I'd imagine some of that is hearsay.


  • #2950
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    KenjiOdo wrote: »
    Did you read my post in reply to MightyMandarin?

    I did. He stated

    "Besides, Trump is not a man of stature. His notoriety comes from the fact that he hosted the apprentice, got a massive inheritance from his rich father and tends to piss off people wherever he goes. He also was on WWE a few years back where he bodyslammed Vince McMahon.

    He's an entertainer and a clown and regardless of the the fact that he's a massive racist, liar, bully and just a general asshole, he's just not a man of stature who I'd be proud to represent my country."

    What contained in these two paragraphs are you implying is hearsay?


  • #2951
    KenjiOdo
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭KenjiOdo


    Nodin wrote: »
    Would you care to respond to my earlier question?

    Why did you quote a post directed at another poster's post, demanding an answer ?

    Some people...


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  • #2952
    KenjiOdo
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭KenjiOdo


    Nodin wrote: »
    I did. He stated

    "Besides, Trump is not a man of stature. His notoriety comes from the fact that he hosted the apprentice, got a massive inheritance from his rich fatherand tends to piss off people wherever he goes. He also was on WWE a few years back where he bodyslammed Vince McMahon.

    He's an entertainer and a clown and regardless of the the fact that he's a massive racist, liar, bully and just a general asshole, he's just not a man of stature who I'd be proud to represent my country."

    What contained in these two paragraphs are you implying is hearsay?

    I didn't think we were speaking legalese around these parts..


  • #2953
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    KenjiOdo wrote: »
    I didn't think we were speaking legalese around these parts..

    One could easily opine, based on his mannerisms and general attitude displayed in recorded appearances that he is a 'clown'. One can say without any hesitation that he seems to be a racist or xenophobe of some sort, unless you think hes play the Mexican and Muslim cards only to appeal to racists and xenophobes, which is not exactly a recommendation of his character.

    As to lying, he most certainly has done so - lies about "black" crime, NJ crowds celebrating the twin towers destruction, the number of Syrians being taken into America and who knows what else.


  • #2954
    KenjiOdo
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭KenjiOdo


    Nodin wrote: »
    One could easily opine, based on his mannerisms and general attitude displayed in recorded appearances that he is a 'clown'. One can say without any hesitation that he seems to be a racist or xenophobe of some sort, unless you think hes play the Mexican and Muslim cards only to appeal to racists and xenophobes, which is not exactly a recommendation of his character.

    As to lying, he most certainly has done so - lies about "black" crime, NJ crowds celebrating the twin towers destruction, the number of Syrians being taken into America and who knows what else.

    You can say a lot about how things seem to be. Are you actually calling him racist and/or xenophobic or not?

    "tends to piss off people wherever he goes." "just a general asshole" - These arguments are fact? I don't see why, unless you have experience first-hand with the man.


  • #2955
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    KenjiOdo wrote: »
    You can say a lot about how things seem to be. Are you actually calling him racist and/or xenophobic or not?
    .

    Yes, indeed I am, as well as a liar. As to the more abusive terms, they can be interchanged with "racist/xenophobe" or used in combination for a good rounded character assessment.


  • #2956
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    KenjiOdo wrote: »
    These arguments are fact? I don't see why, unless you have experience first-hand with the man.

    Hang on - are you claiming that you can't form an opinion on someone unless you've personally met them?

    Can I take it that you have no opinions as to the characters of historical figures?


  • #2957
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    KenjiOdo wrote: »
    $10B is from the horses mouth, he was down to around $40M. Where's your source?

    If's & but's...

    My source is Forbes. I'd trust them a hell of a lot more than Trump.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #2958
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Hang on - are you claiming that you can't form an opinion on someone unless you've personally met them?
    To be fair, that is the way Humans have evolved to interpret and judge leaders. At least according to a book I'm reading "Political Animals" by Sherman. We seem to have all the data in the World at our fingertypes about various politicians, but this is often a carefully crafted persona designed to appeal to the widest voter selector base. Thus the truly best way to form an opinion, is to met or interact with them.


  • #2959
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Manach wrote: »
    To be fair, that is the way Humans have evolved to interpret and judge leaders. At least according to a book I'm reading "Political Animals" by Sherman. We seem to have all the data in the World at our fingertypes about various politicians, but this is often a carefully crafted persona designed to appeal to the widest voter selector base. Thus the truly best way to form an opinion, is to met or interact with them.

    ....an easy enough task, as long as none of us are either Muslim, Mexican, Black, Syrian, Female or have any appearance that would cause us to be mistaken for any of the same.


  • #2960
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....an easy enough task, as long as none of us are either Muslim, Mexican, Black, Syrian, Female or have any appearance that would cause us to be mistaken for any of the same.

    Pardon while I take the requisite time to parse the full measure of non sequiturs inherent in that non-answer.


  • #2961
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Manach wrote: »
    To be fair, that is the way Humans have evolved to interpret and judge leaders. At least according to a book I'm reading "Political Animals" by Sherman. We seem to have all the data in the World at our fingertypes about various politicians, but this is often a carefully crafted persona designed to appeal to the widest voter selector base. Thus the truly best way to form an opinion, is to met or interact with them.

    That would be great, but there are almost 200 million registered voters in the US. How many of them will get to meet or interact with any, never mind all, of the candidates?


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  • #2962
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Which is perhaps an issue with the development of so much power inherent in the state and the problem of emotionally investing in politicians whose sole aim is to get and hold onto office. The book does suggest as an alternative means increasing civic and voter engagement by getting them to look at facts that might break the ideological log-jam. But the hunter-gather bias that is part of all voters makes this a difficult task and actually being part of a meeting/event hosted by the candidate is a better means than most means to gauge someone.


  • #2963
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 8,041 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Manach wrote: »
    Which is perhaps an issue with the development of so much power inherent in the state and the problem of emotionally investing in politicians whose sole aim is to get and hold onto office. The book does suggest as an alternative means increasing civic and voter engagement by getting them to look at facts that might break the ideological log-jam. But the hunter-gather bias that is part of all voters makes this a difficult task and actually being part of a meeting/event hosted by the candidate is a better means than most means to gauge someone.

    There are two possibilities. Either Trump meant what he said or he said it and was willing to say it to get into power to appeal the lowest common denominator. Either way I have more than enough information to judge the man as complete scum.

    Also surely meeting someone means you are more influenced by their demeanour, they an put a false image forward in person as well as to the media. I have what he said, there is no realistic reason that means he could say what he said and not be scum.


  • #2964
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,267 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    ABC News/Wash Post polls present a different picture from the earlier NBC/WSJ polls mentioned a few posts earlier. Another reason why you should be very cautious about using the RCP average of different polls by different polling organisations using different methodologies; NBC/WSJ showed Trump and Cruz fairly close, while ABC News/Wash Post shows them far apart.

    Between 16-19 November and 10-13 December, Trump climbed from 32 to 38%, while Cruz leaped from 8 to 15%, although this recent Cruz 15% was considerably less than half of Trump's 38%.


  • #2965
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    @ Christy42, I was not thinking specifically of Trump, more on the examples the source used: John Edwards & Richard Nixon. While not mentioned, offhand I'd say the Lincoln v Douglas style debates, where the candidates criss-crossed the State and were viewable by the public so as to act as a means to better present themselves. This would be better template than the scripted image that has been developed by the PR-types and political consultants that all canditates now surround themselves with.


  • #2966
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 8,041 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Manach wrote: »
    @ Christy42, I was not thinking specifically of Trump, more on the examples the source used: John Edwards & Richard Nixon. While not mentioned, offhand I'd say the Lincoln v Douglas style debates, where the candidates criss-crossed the State and were viewable by the public so as to act as a means to better present themselves. This would be better template than the scripted image that has been developed by the PR-types and political consultants that all canditates now surround themselves with.

    Ah sorry I misunderstood. Possibly it might help or at least make a scripted image harder to maintain.


  • #2967
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Mod:

    Can we cut calling Trump or any other candidates scum and stuff like that. Thread is becoming a bit heated and that stuff doesn't help. Thanks.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #2968
    BOHtox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭BOHtox


    Is the debate on presently? And can I watch it anywhere?

    edit: got it


  • #2969
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BOHtox wrote: »
    Is the debate on presently? And can I watch it anywhere?

    edit: got it

    A summary here, for those interested.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35106659


  • #2970
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    Brian? wrote: »
    My source is Forbes. I'd trust them a hell of a lot more than Trump.

    Because a journo knows more about the mans finances then himself...


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  • #2971
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,960 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Nodin wrote: »
    A summary here, for those interested.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35106659
    Too late now but the Guardians liveblog is always way more entertaining imo:

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2015/dec/15/cnn-republican-presidential-debate-december-15

    That's the last time Ill bother going to work with a fuzzy head the next morning for the sake of a US debate I think, they're all the same now, nobody called on their bullsh1t makes it too frustrating to watch and the questions are so softball the candidates just take them as cues to crap out another populist soundbite that has basically nothing to do with what was asked.


This discussion has been closed.
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