Asking A Father's Permission

robinph

When you'd be expecting him to be stumping up the cash to pay for the party it might have made some kind of sense, and as a warning to him that your about to waste a pile of his money on things so he'd best start saving.

Really can't see who, or how, it is showing respect to anyone these days though.

The claims that it wouldn't make any difference whatever the fathers response is a load of rubbish as well, it's hardly going to make for a happy ongoing relationship with the inlaws if he says no and you go and get married anyway. Tell the parents after the event and they then just have to come to terms with it if they are that against you, but give him the option of saying no and then you follow that up immediately by getting engaged anyway?!?!

Buona Fortuna

Retrovertigo wrote: »

Did you need to ask the Father before you look for the ride as well?

Being courteous and all that.

Especially if you're lookin to ride da Father

Tarzana

Adalyn Scrawny Goalkeeper wrote: »

The father is traditionally seen as head of the family

And here is the problem. This thinking has no place in Ireland today, especially as the main breadwinner varies from household to household.

Tarzana

kryogen wrote: »

I didn't ask for permission to "marry" his daughter, I told him I planned to ask her and asked him what he thought of it, his opinion was important to me.

See, I would be LIVID if my father knew my BF was thinking of asking me before me.

Tarzana

Tarzana wrote: »

And here is the problem. This thinking has no place in Ireland today, especially as the main breadwinner varies from household to household.

Regardless of who is the main "breadwinner" Its a man to man thing. The groom is asking the father of his bride to be for her hand in marriage. The father of the bride will then tell the mother of the bride and happiness and tears will follow. That's how it works.

On the other hand if the woman was going to the grooms parents to discuss something important I'd fully expect her to discuss it with the grooms mother rather than involve the father. I don't see why its such an issue for people apart from those looking for something to be getting worked up about for the sake of it.

There is a general disrespect for parents-in-law in after hours in general though so I'm not surprised this is an issue for some.

ash23

I don't really get on with my dad at all. We speak and all but it wouldn't be a father/daughter relationship.

He wasn't around for us growing up and I wouldn't be at all happy if my boyfriend asked him for permission to marry me. I'd be annoyed at the idea that my father would have any say or input as to who I married.

If it were my mother who was asked for approval I'd be ok with that. Wouldn't be pushed one way or the other but it wouldn't bother me.

I'd not be expecting my parents to pay for the wedding either so their input wouldn't really be necessary in that capacity.

nc19

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Very disrespectful to the girl imho. She is not the property of her father and shouldn't be treated as such. She will make her own decisions.

This is taking it to the man bashing feminism PC side and thus the losing side.

by your logic the man should wear the dress or there should be no dress because the dress signifies the bride is pure and why should the bride be pure? shes a woman with needs the same as a man and should be allowed.......yada yada yada


The father being asked is a tradition. Some fathers would feel disrespected if they weren't asked. Not because the daughter is their property but because its what they did and they understood it was about respect and not about the father owning the daughter ffs

Esterhase

It just struck me that I've no idea if this situation arises for same sex couples. Should a woman ask her female partner's mammy for blessings, so it can be a woman-to-woman scenario? Or is the father still the go-to guy for maximum tradition keeping? As there is no tradition of a man's parents being asked what they think of impending proposals, do two male partners not ask at all? Weddings/civil partnerships must be a bloody minefield for LGBT people who would like to keep traditions going.

It's something I have exactly no personal experience of. Looks like I've given myself some food for thought for lunch

preston johnny

Didn't the late great Phil Lynott ask Leslie Crowther for his daughters hand in marriage? (Caroline Crowther)
Leslie Crowther said 'Well, you've had everything else, you might as well have that as well'

mfergus

Wompa1 wrote: »

I wanted to let you know beforehand that I'm going to ask her, I just wanted to let you know out of respect...

I wouldn't ask or care what he said after that.

Basically say to him

"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you..."

Barely There

Adalyn Scrawny Goalkeeper wrote: »

. Its almost unheard of not to ask in Ireland.

Aren't you the guy who goes home every week to get your mammy to cook you your dinner and do your washing for you?

I suspect your notions of modern day Ireland are somewhat out of date tbh.

Dial Hard

nc19 wrote: »

This is taking it to the man bashing feminism PC side and thus the losing side.

Yes, anyone who thinks this particular tradition is out-dated is clearly a man-bashing feminist who's obsessed with being PC :rolleyes:

I'm extremely close to my dad, we have a fantastic relationship. But quite frankly, I don't think me and my ex's decision to get married was anyone's business but our own until we announced it. And I would have felt exactly the same had tradition dictated that he ask my mother instead.

Philo Beddoe

Shenshen wrote: »

As someone paraphrased it for me one day : "It means it's broke, but we ain't fixin' it".

If traditions still have a purpose, nobody calls them traditions. They call it common sense.
Once they lose the purpose, that's when people start referring to "tradtions"

Very well put. Personally I wouldn't have thought about asking a father's permission to marry his daughter. On the other hand though, I'd probably try to work the topic into conversation long beforehand to get her take on it, just in case she's one of the few who would prefer it.

nc19

Dial Hard wrote: »

Yes, anyone who thinks this particular tradition is out-dated is clearly a man-bashing feminist who's obsessed with being PC.

I did not say that. The comment was made the it should be the brides the decision cos shes not the fathers property. This is what I commented on.

I did not ask my father in law because I knew it wouldnt mean anything to him but I would like to be asked but it would depend on the kind of relationship I had with the lad at the time.

Philo Beddoe

Adalyn Scrawny Goalkeeper wrote: »

Regardless of who is the main "breadwinner" Its a man to man thing. The groom is asking the father of his bride to be for her hand in marriage. The father of the bride will then tell the mother of the bride and happiness and tears will follow. That's how it works.

On the other hand if the woman was going to the grooms parents to discuss something important I'd fully expect her to discuss it with the grooms mother rather than involve the father. I don't see why its such an issue for people apart from those looking for something to be getting worked up about for the sake of it.

Tell us how you feel on the thorny subject of women getting the vote.

Dial Hard

nc19 wrote: »

I did not say that. The comment was made the it should be the brides the decision cos shes not the fathers property. This is what I commented on.

But it is the bride (and groom's) decision and she's not her father's property. I don't see how pointing this out could be in any way construed as man-bashing feminist PC nonsense?

LandoCalrissian

My OH's father had passed away so I asked her Mam
They were BOTH delighted that I had thought to ask.

Although I did only ask her Mam about 3 hours before I popped the Q as if I had given her anymore notice she wouldn't have been able to keep it quiet


I do think that it is a nice thing to do and I know a lot of my friends have had a few words with their partners father ahead of popping the question.

I have also heard a number of women admiring the sentiment or thinking it was "cute" that the boyfriend had done it

Paramite Pie

Shenshen wrote: »

As someone pointed out, you don't go and ask the father's permission before you hop into bed with her.

Actually, in the old days the Wedding night was the night you first hopped into bed together.

Asking for 'permission' was as much to say I'm going to defile your daughter this June, may I have your blessing!! It was a package deal.:pac:

Cultures & traditions are redefined all the time and if a woman feels parental approval is important to her, then the guy shows her that he acknowledges that. Some women are really close to their daddies. It doesn't mean the men in question view the daughter as property, it could be interpreted as male bonding. The origin of the tradition is irrelevant.

I wouldn't be keen on asking myself but it's important to some. It's only offensive if the woman finds it offensive, there is no absolute right or wrong answer.

Tarzana

Adalyn Scrawny Goalkeeper wrote: »

Regardless of who is the main "breadwinner" Its a man to man thing.

That still doesn't explain what you mean by "head of the family". Using your example, if the woman was going to ask her prospective fiancé's mother, does that make the mother the head of that family in your view?

And not asking for permission doesn't mean you don't respect your parents-in-law.

nc19

Dial Hard wrote: »

I don't see how pointing this out could be in any way construed as man-bashing feminist PC nonsense?

That is clear

Dial Hard

nc19 wrote: »

That is clear

Not to me, it's not; I'm completely lost?

Tarzana

Barely There wrote: »

Aren't you the guy who goes home every week to get your mammy to cook you your dinner and do your washing for you?

I suspect your notions of modern day Ireland are somewhat out of date tbh.

+1

ash23

Paramite Pie wrote: »

I wouldn't be keen on asking myself but it's important to some. It's only offensive if the woman finds it offensive, there is no absolute right or wrong answer.

It's very much dependent on the woman and her relationship with her father and how she views the "asking" bit.

I think safest thing is for the man to bring it up in a general conversation and suss out how she feels on it.
I know myself and himself had a chat about it in a general way before and he knows I'd be totally against it.

Philo Beddoe

nc19 wrote: »

That is clear

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how it's man-bashing PC nonsense?

eviltwin

Himself didn't ask as my father wasn't alive and I wouldn't have been impressed if he had asked anyone. The only opinion that mattered was my own. My mother actually hates my husband for daring to move in with me and father my child before marriage so she wouldn't have approved anyway, she didn't and still doesn't.

I loved my dad dearly and his point of view and experience was always something I valued but he had plenty of opportunity to have his say while we were dating, by the time we bought a house and had a family it was a bit late in the day. If he'd been alive and said he didn't approve of the wedding I'd have had to wonder why he was only waiting until then to mention it.

nc19

Dial Hard wrote: »

But it is the bride (and groom's) decision and she's not her father's property.

And the groom asking for the fathers blessing does not mean the bride has to accept either. The women on this thread are being a bit too touchy about this whole thing imo

Zubeneschamali

I did not ask the father-in-law's permission. There is no possibility that anyone who knows my wife well enough to want to marry her would even consider asking for anyone else's permission.

If a lad asked for permission to marry my daughter, I'd conclude he was an idiot.

Barely There

Barely There wrote: »

Aren't you the guy who goes home every week to get your mammy to cook you your dinner and do your washing for you?

That is a total exaggeration of what I posted on that topic.

Philo Beddoe wrote: »

Tell us how you feel on the thorny subject of women getting the vote.

So because I think this is a nice tradition which shows respect for your future parents in law you assume I have some issue with women's rights? Total and utter nonsense.

Tarzana wrote: »

That still doesn't explain what you mean by "head of the family". Using your example, if the woman was going to ask her prospective fiancé's mother, does that make the mother the head of that family in your view?

And not asking for permission doesn't mean you don't respect your parents-in-law.

I didn't say the father is head of the family now I said traditionally he was and so to uphold the tradition the father is asked for his daughters hand in marriage.

Just to point out even though it put as "asking for his daughters hand in marriage" its more being respectful and informing your bride to be's parents and getting their blessing than actually asking permission.

eviltwin

These traditons are all well and good but not much use in the real world where the nature of relationships has moved on. Who does a woman ask if she is the one doing the proposing, what about a same sex couple or a woman who might be on a second relationship, do you ask her kids??

What if you and your intended are older, if you are a 40 something year old woman are you still expected to get your dad's blessing?

Tarzana

Adalyn Scrawny Goalkeeper wrote: »

I didn't say the father is head of the family now I said traditionally he was and so to uphold the tradition the father is asked for his daughters hand in marriage.

Why must the tradition be upheld if it makes no sense today, especially as it has connotations of ownership?