Leaving child unattended in car

anncoates

Judgement Day wrote: »

Children may not spontaneously combust but cars do. The electrical wiring in the dashboard loom can ignite even when the engine is switched off - I've seen a van burnt-out as a result of same but sure you can always grow some more children.

That's why I've banned my kids from school, all buildings and vehicles and keep them locked in an asbestos compound.

who the fug

Holsten wrote: »

Haha.

Ah yes, the ever common Baby Theft Auto.

Well I did steal the gear stick from fathers car aged three, payback for him burying my dead rabbit

branie2

That's terrible :-(

uck51js9zml2yt

Left my son in the car once while i popped in somewhere. I went out to check on him and found him caught in the seat belt while he was trying to get out of it.

I've never left him unattended while out of view since.

cassid

I never leave in my children in the car, never have and never will. It's a pain dragging them all in when just paying for petrol but I prefer to have them with me.

You see young children and babies left in cars at shops and especially during school runs every day, even when its warm. A car can be parked around the corner and not visible from the school gates, there is no way that the parent can see if the baby/child is ok and sometimes it can take up to 15 minutes for a class can come out.,

I remember the story of Melanie Grimsley, her sister Amanda died while her mum popped into the shop to get milk, the car burst into flames, Melanie who was 2 survived with horrific burns. While children don't burst into flames, cars do.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/woman/life/melanie-grimsleys-miracle-28685758.html

Thoie

My mother used leave me alone in an unlocked room with a window and electricity for 8+ hours a day when I was a child. I'm amazed nothing ever happened.

Judgement Day

Thoie wrote: »

My mother used leave me alone in an unlocked room with a window and electricity for 8+ hours a day when I was a child. I amazed nothing ever happened.

This sort of post is so witty but ignores the basic point that parents should try to reduce the potential risks to their small children. We aren't like birds, some of which can rear up to three broods in a year.

ScumLord

bluewolf wrote: »

If he was male he probably wasn't her mother

Don't hold him down, if he wants to be a mother that's his right.

Wabbit Ears

I have no problem paying for petrol or nipping into a shop and leaving the kids strapped in their seats for a short while.

Seriously, My kids stand WAY more of a chance being kidnapped and horribly murdered, exploding, causing exposions, setting fire to things, pressing buttons they shouldn't be pressing and so on and so forth than they what could possibly happen to them strapped in a child safety seat in a locked car.

mfceiling

Christ do some of you "helicopter" over your children 24 hours a day?

Better run upstairs and make sure they are still in bed not dying...in fact better watch them all night, every night forever, you know just in case like.

I go to the shop the odd time with all 3 of mine -

"what would you like from the shop kids"?

"eh, crisps dad"

"ok, see you in a minute"

*lock door, enter shop, get crisps, re-open door, distribute crisps, everyone happy*

So far in the last 8 years no one has died, got wrapped up in a seatbelt, hot wired the car, let off the handbrake (electronic - won't work with ignition off), drove off in the car, drew on the seats with paint or any of the other million things that "could" happen.

By the way, if you grew up in the 80's chances are your parents left you in the car sometimes - if you posting here, congratulations, you are still alive.

Thoie

Judgement Day wrote: »

This sort of post is so witty but ignores the basic point that parents should try to reduce the potential risks to their small children. We aren't like birds, some of which can rear up to three broods in a year.

I disagree. I think parents should use rational thought, and help their children learn about evaluating risks through example.

What are the risks of leaving 2 year old in locked car for 5 minutes?
*Car might go on fire (highly unlikely)
*Child might suffocate from heat (highly unlikely in today's weather - more likely in extreme temperatures)
*Child might leave off handbrake (highly unlikely due to lack of strength of child - easily mitigated by pulling handbreak tight)
*Child might choke on something (most common)

Of those, from a risk analysis perspective, the child choking on something is the far most likely to happen. This could also happen without you noticing if you're driving the car and the child is in the back seat. Therefore the best risk reduction is not "always being in the car at the same time as your child", but "ensuring that there is no food or choke hazards within reach of your child in the backseat".

Thoie

mfceiling wrote: »

So far in the last 8 years no one has died, got wrapped up in a seatbelt, hot wired the car, let off the handbrake (electronic - won't work with ignition off), drove off in the car, drew on the seats with paint or any of the other million things that "could" happen.

Drawing on the seats is only hazardous to your child if you're really precious about your interior

The Cool

It actually is against the law to leave a child unattended in a car.
I've been reading through the Rules of the Road preparing for my driving test this week so I just happened to read that last night. It says,

"You must not leave infants or young children on their own in a motor vehicle, even if you are away for a short time. The children may face a number of hazards, such as:
- a fire breaking out,
- difficulty in breathing on a warm day (if all windows are closed), and
- being trapped in electric windows, which could result in serious injury or death."

Jawgap

The Cool wrote: »

It actually is against the law to leave a child unattended in a car.
I've been reading through the Rules of the Road preparing for my driving test this week so I just happened to read that last night. It says,

"You must not leave infants or young children on their own in a motor vehicle, even if you are away for a short time. The children may face a number of hazards, such as:
- a fire breaking out,
- difficulty in breathing on a warm day (if all windows are closed), and
- being trapped in electric windows, which could result in serious injury or death."

The RotR is not law.

Yes, if one of mine broke the electric windows on my car they'd be at severe risk of injury or death - even though they're teenagers

A2LUE42

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

I was left alone in a car as a child many a time. Never for hours on end, never in blistering heat but now and again for two or three minutes at a time while the mammy popped into the post office or the local shop or down the street to pay a parking ticket. As far as I know I survived all these occasions. Children, even as young as two or three don't tend to spontaneously combust if left briefly unattended.

Children don't tend to combust when left alone in a car, that is true, But cars themselves have been known to on the odd occasion. I can't imagine dealing with that scenario and would do whatever possible to prevent it happening, no matter how remote the possibility.

There is also the possibility of the parent getting delayed in some way.

connundrum

My job involves looking after security and car park management systems for shopping centers and retail parks.

We deal with unattended children in cars on a regular basis. Not daily, but often. Most of the time, the parent will return to the child in less than 10 minutes, with no issue or scene created. On several occasions we've had to call the Gardai when the parent was no where to be found after 20 odd minutes.

Our procedure would be for one of our staff to stay with the car until such a time as the parent is found. I would generously say that on at least 80% of occasions where one of our staff tries to suggest that the parent shouldn't be leaving a child/children in the car alone - our staff is told to fuck off, sometimes politely, most times not.

On a couple of occasions last summer (during the good weather) our staff (on the instruction of the Gardai) had to break the window of a car when the parent was no where to be found and the Gardai advised us that they would not be able to attend quickly.

The longest we've had a parent away from a child locked in a car was approx 50 minutes. I think the child was approx 2-3 years old.

Sweet Rose

This brings me back to when seat belts weren't compulsory. We used to visit my family in Dublin a lot and drive down from Donegal. Our elderly aunt used to come with us too, so that was 6 of us in the back. We used to take turns lying on the floor. I vaguely remember lying on the floor, seeing a hole in the bottom of the car and watching the road for a while!

cloud493

Back in the day my dad would leave me in the car for hours on end, one time it was from about 1 in the afternoon till 8 at night. He'd park up outside a certain house, go to the shop across the road and get me a drink and a bag of sweets, tell me he wouldn't be long and go into the house. I never even thought of it as a bad thing till I was a bit older. Well that and the fact it came out he was having sexual relations with the woman in the house, but again, foresight etc.*

*And the fact he locked the ****ing doors for those hours. And being a young lad trapped in a car with no access to a bathroom :mad:

WellThen?

I can't believe all the talk of cars catching fire and blowing up here. I mean if that's what you're worried about how do you bring them anywhere.

Flippyfloppy

WellThen? wrote: »

I can't believe all the talk of cars catching fire and blowing up here. I mean if that's what you're worried about how do you bring them anywhere.

I can't believe the attitudes being taken by some towards others who are obviously more responsible parents!!

Sweet Rose

cloud493 wrote: »

Back in the day my dad would leave me in the car for hours on end, one time it was from about 1 in the afternoon till 8 at night. He'd park up outside a certain house, go to the shop across the road and get me a drink and a bag of sweets, tell me he wouldn't be long and go into the house. I never even thought of it as a bad thing till I was a bit older. Well that and the fact it came out he was having sexual relations with the woman in the house, but again, foresight etc.*

*And the fact he locked the ****ing doors for those hours. And being a young lad trapped in a car with no access to a bathroom :mad:

You poor cuttie! That's just negligence. Your Dad inside swinging from the chandeliers and you soiled in the car!

galah

just leave your car in gear, that should get rid of the worry of your child messing with the handbrake and sending the car rolling :P

(and no, wouldnt leave kids in car unless i can see the car and know i'll only be a minute)

A2LUE42

WellThen? wrote: »

I can't believe all the talk of cars catching fire and blowing up here. I mean if that's what you're worried about how do you bring them anywhere.

If you had ever seen the results of a car fire you might have a different viewpoint.

Tarzana

leck wrote: »

Last week a car pulled in beside me in a parking lot. There was a little girl, 2-3 years old, strapped into the back seat. The driver, probably her father, got out, locked the car and walked away. I think he was going into a nearby leisure centre. He might have only been going in for five minutes or an hour. I was leaving the car park at the time.

Is there a law against leaving a child alone like that? I thought of calling after him but figured he'd tell me to mind my own business.

Not sure if there's a law but apparently this is quite common. I know it seems like I'm excusing it, but I reckon this could happen to many a person in a scatter-brained or distracted moment. It's recognised as such as thing that there are guidelines out there to help remind people that there's a child in the back seat.

Interesting article on the subject:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28214266

leck

Tarzana wrote: »

Not sure if there's a law but apparently this is quite common. I know it seems like I'm excusing it, but I reckon this could happen to many a person in a scatter-brained or distracted moment. It's recognised as such as thing that there are guidelines out there to help remind people that there's a child in the back seat.

Interesting article on the subject:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28214266

My sister did suggest that maybe the man forgot he had a child in the back of the car. He certainly seemed very nonchalant as he strolled away. He was puffing away on a cigarette, which I presume he would have to put out if he was going into the leisure centre.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I think leaving the child in the car for a couple of seconds is fine. But can't understand how parents would be okay with any longer. I have my cousins two year old a good bit, and it's such a hassle getting her out of the carseat, then keeping her distracted so she's not crying for stuff in the shop while I'm paying for petrol, and then getting her back into her seat and strapped up.

My heart is in my mouth anytime I leave her in the car, although I'm never very long and could always see the car.

I would never leave a baby in the car though, for the sake of getting them out and back in it'd be worth it for peace of mind, they're too little to understand you'll be back in a second.

FunLover18

The main issue I have with leaving a child unattended in a car is the fact that it gives said child unrestricted access to the car horn.

IvyTheTerrible

A child died over here not so long ago, the mum picked the child up from the minder, put her in the car and then went back into the minder's house for a chat about all the problems in her life (she had been drinking). 30 minutes later, the child had died of heat stroke. The mum was charged with negligence.
Small children or babies can't tolerate heat as well as adults, and it gets very hot in cars in the sun. They shouldn't ever be left for even a few minutes on a warm day.

Jawgap

Should kids be

- allowed to play contact sports? (given the risk of head and eye injuries)

- non-contact sports? (given the risk of soft-tissue injuries)

- encouraged to get fit? (given the potential risk of SADS)

- play outside? (given the risk of being hit by a car, for example)

- stay at home? (statistically the most dangerous place for kids)


The child in question was probably as safe as it was every likely to be - risk of the car spontaneously combusting and / or a freak heatwave occuring included.

In fact, the most dangerous aspects of her day were probably the drive to and from the leisure centre and the probability that her child seat was not properly secured (most aren't).

.......and as for suggestions the State or any agency of the State should somehow have got involved - well that's laughable - the State has been (and continues to be) responsible for the death of children in it's 'care' - it's not exactly improving any child's prospects by getting the State involved.

Akrasia

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I could understand leaving a baby alone for a minute or two while popping in to pay for petrol or whatever, but aren't toddlers who lover to push buttons and stuff liable to letting off the hand break?

Only if the hand brake is not pulled up properly. It takes strength to release the hand brake on any normally functioning car and toddlers are puny weaklings who can barely hold a pint of milk without dropping it.

Also, any toddler should be strapped into his/her 5 point harness which can usually contain them for the few moments it takes to buy a stamp at the local shop

I'm imagining the 'call social services' brigade going to the supermarket with a bunch of kids.

1. Bring the trolley back to the car, strap all the children into their seats while you load the shopping into the boot (using newly evolved octopus arms to simultanously strap multiple children in to avoid having any loose infants capable of mass destruction)

2. Unstrap all the children from their seats (again, octopus arms) and bring them with you to the trolley bay which is a 45 second walk away from the car to return the shopping trolley

3. strap all the children back into the car (octopus)

All because 'only an idiot would leave a child unattended in a car for any length of time'

Is there a risk that the child could break free from his car seat and somehow hotwire the car and joyride down the M1 motorway? Yes, definitely. Children these days are all hooligans dressed in babygrows, but there is also a risk every time you take your children out of the car to bring them amongst the general public and traffic. (Bonnie and clyde might be doing their grocery shopping, or some granny in a lime green 1990 nissan micra might forget which gear reverse is, and plow straight through the shop window killing everyone inside.

anncoates

I see the parental perfection cavalry has arrived. Did somebody send a bat signal to the parenting forum?

munchkin_utd

folks, since when was the irish climate so warm that kids have the risk of being cooked alive in a car ?

last time I paid attention, on a good day its cloudy and not raining.
On a bad day, cloudy and raining (on a sliding scale of wetness), and a really bad day just adds wind to it (on a sliding scale of breezy to storm force gales).

any cases of kids dying come from countries which have less cloud, more sun and higher temperatures.

anyhow, only ever left my 2 unattended in the car in a (sunless) basement car park when the 2 were conked for their morning nap and the choice was cart them asleep in the trolley or wake them and not be able to get the few things for dinner with a double dose of grumpy infant screaming wildly as if you chopped off both their arms and legs.
No harm done, and both were still asleep when I was back and had to be lifted into the house still asleep a half hour later.

Tell me how

Maybe the child was like Stewie Griffin and when the father asked him to come with him "Stewie" screamed at him and told him to "Begone and leave me with a few minutes peace you infernal buffoon"

Neyite

munchkin_utd wrote: »

folks, since when was the irish climate so warm that kids have the risk of being cooked alive in a car ?

last time I paid attention, on a good day its cloudy and not raining.
On a bad day, cloudy and raining (on a sliding scale of wetness), and a really bad day just adds wind to it (on a sliding scale of breezy to storm force gales).

any cases of kids dying come from countries which have less cloud, more sun and higher temperatures.

anyhow, only ever left my 2 unattended in the car in a (sunless) basement car park when the 2 were conked for their morning nap and the choice was cart them asleep in the trolley or wake them and not be able to get the few things for dinner with a double dose of grumpy infant screaming wildly as if you chopped off both their arms and legs.
No harm done, and both were still asleep when I was back and had to be lifted into the house still asleep a half hour later.

We had a pretty decent summer just there. While it wasnt a boiler, there were some warm days and the inside of a car can get hot pretty quickly if the air con is switched off. One day I was parked up waiting for my partner to finish work, toddler in the back, in tshirt and shorts, outside it was about 19 degrees. In the space of 10 mins with the windows fully down I was starting to get a bit warm, toddler incased in the seat with foam surrounds was actually sweating, hair damp, back of t-shirt damp. I put the engine back on and it cooled down again, but it did make me stop and think.

And I'll strap him in the car and return the trolley to the bay, or leave him there while I nip in and pay for fuel, but for going in to pay for fuel, then say, pick up a few bits and pieces, get a sandwich made and queue, you could easily be longer away from the car than you meant to be. So my personal rule is if I'm getting more than just fuel, I'll take him in to the shop.

My biggest fear is choking - you wont hear them over the music if this happened, one newspaper article described a woman strapping her toddler in and giving her a biscuit for the journey. On arrival 30 mins later the toddler had choked to death, the mother couldnt hear her struggle in the back. Even if you had no radio on, if you had the window down the traffic noise would cover it After that, food was banned in our car - even for the fact that you may not easily pull over in a safe spot if your child began to choke.

Son Of A Vidic

leck wrote: »

Is there a law against leaving a child alone like that?

There probably should be.

There probably should also be a law against jumping to conclusions and overreacting. Especially when an accuser has no knowledge or facts to base their assumptions on.

IK09

Judgement Day wrote: »

This sort of post is so witty but ignores the basic point that parents should try to reduce the potential risks to their small children. We aren't like birds, some of which can rear up to three broods in a year.

WTF are you on about man. What does a bird rearing 3 "broods" a year have to do with anything. WTF is a brood?

Judgement Day

IK09 wrote: »

WTF are you on about man. What does a bird rearing 3 "broods" a year have to do with anything. WTF is a brood?

Instead of being offensive why not google the information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brood

The_Captain

I leave my kids in the car all the time.

Come at me, bros

Thoie

IK09 wrote: »

WTF are you on about man. What does a bird rearing 3 "broods" a year have to do with anything. WTF is a brood?

He was trying to chastise me by saying we're not birds, and if I kill off the first lot through neglect, I couldn't have another few broods in the space of a few months.

Judgement Day

Thoie wrote: »

He was trying to chastise me by saying we're not birds, and if I kill off the first lot through neglect, I couldn't have another few broods in the space of a few months.

FYP

IK09

Judgement Day wrote: »

Instead of being offensive why not google the information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brood

No offense was intended. I suppose it is better than calling them spawn.

sbsquarepants

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

Children, even as young as two or three don't tend to spontaneously combust if left briefly unattended.

Kids no. But cars sometimes do - I know 2 people who's cars burst into flames for no apparent reason. One was a total junker but one was a 2 or 3 year old ford galaxy. It happens, it's really not a risk worth taking.

Wailin

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Parents should be obliged to at least leave the window slightly open & have a water bowl in the car.

It's a child, not a fcuking dog.

Wailin

Wailin wrote: »

It's a child, not a fcuking dog.

think thats the joke

Wailin

bluewolf wrote: »

think thats the joke

:rolleyes: Dear floor, open up and swallow me......lol

indigo twist

I'd leave him if it was going to be no more than two minutes maximum, BUT only if the car was clearly in my view for the whole time. E.g. getting petrol and paying with cash.

If I couldn't see the car, I wouldn't do it ... I'm not so much worried about the car spontaneously exploding (surely there's a far bigger risk of crashing every time you leave the house in a car!), but cars are broken into all the time, particularly in the general area where I live - I'm not worried that the thief would WANT to steal my baby but they mightn't even cop on that he was there! Not worth the risk.

To be honest - I'm not driving at the moment - but when I had a car, it was generally easier just to pick him up and bring him with me anyways, wherever I was going - at least then I didn't have to worry about getting delayed in the queue or whatever.