Stand up for yourself

Pippy1976

It struck me in work that there are two types of people:

The first type people listen to and take seriously when they say something and take their word at face value,

The second type say something and get spoken back to and undermined and questioned.

I fall into the second category and it's really beginning to bug me, mostly being treated this way by people who are younger than me in the work place.

It's driving me demented. Not even sure if this is an After Hours topic but wondered how you guys / girls find it in the workplace. There are just those people who can say what they mean and are taken seriously, no questions.

uch

Shut Up and Sit back Down.

FTA69

The next time someone treats you like that, lash out with extreme and unrestrained violence. The rest of the herd will then fall back into line.

A Clockwork Orange -

Donkey Oaty

Pippy1976 wrote: »

It struck me in work that there are two types of people:

The first type people listen to and take seriously when they say something and take their word at face value,

The second type say something and get spoken back to and undermined and questioned.

What happens if the second types are having a discussion amongst themselves? Do they treat each other as first types?

Nib

That's all very well, OP. But this picture says otherwise.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqi-oI3ZnJwidtmgrgbxxzJqYwfxrBdWjpDOleWze66PVVmwVw2g

Earthhorse

I'm in the same boat as you OP, except it's senior people who think they don't need to listen to me. Think it's time to find a new job...

Deathwish4

Pippy1976 wrote: »

The first type people listen to and take seriously when they say something and take their word at face value.

Men

Pippy1976 wrote: »

The second type say something and get spoken back to and undermined and questioned.

Women

Pippy1976

Deathwish4 wrote: »

Men


Women

Not where I'm coming from... women are worse. Throwing their weight around (literally!! hehe) thinking a bit of seniority (role-wise) gives them automatic rights to talk down to people.

kiffer

Deathwish4 wrote: »

Men


Women

I'm not sure it's just that... I find that I am often ignored, I think it's a tone of voice thing.
Not loudness exactly but forcefulness, sureness.
Any hesitance and many people just tune you out.

Pippy1976

kiffer wrote: »

I'm not sure it's just that... I find that I am often ignored, I think it's a tone of voice thing.
Not loudness exactly but forcefulness, sureness.
Any hesitance and many people just tune you out.

This is it exactly. I approach someone knowing EXACTLY what I need to say. But I'm answered in a tone of voice which says 'you're an idiot. you don't understand what you're saying'.

Which in turn makes me toddle on my merry way RAGING with myself for not being able to retort with X, Y, Z that I'd meant to say. Kicking myself, I am. Kicking myself!

PizzamanIRL

Deathwish4 wrote: »

Men


Women

Do you have a death wish or something?

kiffer

That said...
Sometimes I'm very sure of myself and whether I'm telling some story or outrageous lie people* nod along and listen and believe it. I had one friend believing that Polar Bears aren't actually bears but a form of Giant Weasel.

*often the same people who the day before when I was feeling low just totally ignored the fact I was talking and spoke over me, or ignored what I said.

Pippy1976

kiffer wrote: »

That said...
Sometimes I'm very sure of myself and whether I'm telling some story or outrageous lie people* nod along and listen and believe it. I had one friend believing that Polar Bears aren't actually bears but a form of Giant Weasel.

*often the same people who the day before when I was feeling low just totally ignored the fact I was talking and spoke over me, or ignored what I said.

I'd say that's more of a 'talent' of your 'friends' for acting dumb than you being assertive.

KomradeBishop

It's not a personality type of the person being spoken back to that is the problem, it's the personality type of the person speaking back: What you describe is condescension, and people that do it to knock others down, are díckheads.

If you work somewhere, where that is quite common, it can become quite a poisonous environment, that - if there is no way to resolve it (after making a good effort at being assertive and such, to try and resolve it), leaving you to put up with it - might be better in the long run to get away from it, if it impacts your self esteem.

anncoates

It's doesn't mean you're inherently that type of person. There's not a lot you can do if, for example, senior colleagues are arrogant and condescending except find another job

kiffer

Pippy1976 wrote: »

This is it exactly. I approach someone knowing EXACTLY what I need to say. But I'm answered in a tone of voice which says 'you're an idiot. you don't understand what you're saying'.

Which in turn makes me toddle on my merry way RAGING with myself for not being able to retort with X, Y, Z that I'd meant to say. Kicking myself, I am. Kicking myself!

Do you apologise a lot? Or lead with stuff like, "I'm sorry to bother you but [information/idea/whatever]"

Pippy1976

kiffer wrote: »

Do you apologise a lot? Or lead with stuff like, "I'm sorry to bother you but [information/idea/whatever]"

Hmmm, sometimes, if it's clear I'm interrupting or they're extremely busy.

Good point - today I did open with the line 'I know you've been really busy today but...'

It was met with an exasperated tone and an extremely narky response. So I wandered off because I just couldn't be listening to another person talking down to me.

KomradeBishop

Pippy1976 wrote: »

Hmmm, sometimes, if it's clear I'm interrupting or they're extremely busy.

Good point - today I did open with the line 'I know you've been really busy today but...'

It was met with an exasperated tone and an extremely narky response. So I wandered off because I just couldn't be listening to another person talking down to me.

Ya, if that's the type of response you get regularly from that person, they're an arsehole.

Pippy1976

anncoates wrote: »

It's doesn't mean you're inherently that type of person. There's not a lot you can do if, for example, senior colleagues are arrogant and condescending except find another job

Not all of the people who do it are senior.

Which leads me to believe that I'm the one with the problem in that I need to BE more assertive.

Although, what if someone speaks back in an unsavoury tone in front of a gang of colleagues making you look foolish. What should be the default response there, short of punching them in the face?

Pippy1976

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Ya, if that's the type of response you get regularly from that person, they're an arsehole.

Yeah it's the same person quite often but others too, occasionally.

kiffer

Pippy1976 wrote: »

Hmmm, sometimes, if it's clear I'm interrupting or they're extremely busy.

Good point - today I did open with the line 'I know you've been really busy today but...'

It was met with an exasperated tone and an extremely narky response. So I wandered off because I just couldn't be listening to another person talking down to me.

ah... yeah, don't do that.

KomradeBishop

Pippy1976 wrote: »

Not all of the people who do it are senior.

Which leads me to believe that I'm the one with the problem in that I need to BE more assertive.

Although, what if someone speaks back in an unsavoury tone in front of a gang of colleagues making you look foolish. What should be the default response there, short of punching them in the face?

It depends on the workplace, and how competent management is at resolving things like that - might be good to take this to Personal Issues, as people there probably have well measured advice.

You could try resolve it by initially being more assertive (but remember it's a problem with them, not a problem with you), and if that fails then could try management (but...worth seeking advice on this), and if that fails, probably best to find another work place (yet again with disclaimer: seek more advice ).

If it's making you feel as strongly as it seems to be, then it's definitely an unhealthy environment, and none of it is your fault by the sounds of it.

Pippy1976

KomradeBishop wrote: »

It depends on the workplace, and how competent management is at resolving things like that - might be good to take this to Personal Issues, as people there probably have well measured advice.

You could try resolve it by initially being more assertive (but remember it's a problem with them, not a problem with you), and if that fails then could try management (but...worth seeking advice on this), and if that fails, probably best to find another work place (yet again with disclaimer: seek more advice ).

If it's making you feel as strongly as it seems to be, then it's definitely an unhealthy environment, and none of it is your fault by the sounds of it.

iiiinteresting. thank you.

If there hadn't been other people around today I would've pulled her up on it (in a nice way).

I think the advice here is: seek advice!!

coola boola!!!!

anncoates

Pippy1976 wrote: »

Although, what if someone speaks back in an unsavoury tone in front of a gang of colleagues making you look foolish. What should be the default response there, short of punching them in the face?

That's not down to any lack of assertiveness on your part, rather them being unprofessional twats.

Pippy1976

anncoates wrote: »

That's not down to any lack of assertiveness on your part, rather them being unprofessional twats.

Also interesting!

I want to add too that this isn't necessarily a Personal Issues topic. Just wanted to hear other people's experiences of the same thing.

Fair enough it's easy to call them a twat but how do you make sure they don't continue to talk to you like you're an idiot?

What did you guys do?

Try a more assertive style of speaking OP. One thing I've always watched out for is a tendency to smile too much. It can look a bit submissive. I've also just overcome a tendency to ask people too nicely ("would you mind doing x?") instead of just saying "Can you get X done before 3?". I accept sometimes it sounds like I'm giving people a choice instead of an instruction and that's down to me.

If I feel I'm not being listened to, I wait until an opportunity arises and say something like "if I have your attention, I'd like to say XYZ before we go further" this makes it very obvious and too impolite for other people to speak over me or interrupt.

I think people who think they're the 2nd type you refer to are the easier going and easier to get along with types OP, but just because you may have less to say doesn't mean what you do say is less important, and bearing that in mind helps a lot.

Red Pepper

If these 1st type people are getting "uppity", simply ask them into a meeting room and ask one simple question "Do you have a problem working with me?". They will of course say No (if they are Irish) and they will treat you different from that day on. Don't make it into a conversation. Just pause and reply "OK" and walk out. It works.

AnonoBoy

Do you have a squeaky voice?

Nobody believes anything that's said in a squeaky voice.

Remember Orville The Duck - nobody ever believed that he even wished he could fly.

TheBeardedLady

I've never had this problem, tbh. I'm a teacher, so I'm automatically the boss (but I don't feel comfortable assuming "teacher" mode and prefer to be on the same level with someone instead of talking AT them, which many teachers seem to do) and I don't have to work with any colleagues except my boss, who lets us do my own thing. I'd have quite a low, booming kinda voice and I think that helps me generally as it makes me sound more assertive and perhaps confident than I really am sometimes, particularly at work dealing with my adults students who'd often have very high-up positions in their jobs. If I feel someone is patronising me, I don't deal with them.

I'd be conscious of your body language. Do you fidget a lot and touch your arms/hair/face and kind of bend yourself over instead of standing tall? Making a conscious effort to stand with your hands on your hips (as opposed to pulling at your hair, for example) and legs spread a bit instead of crossed and awkward seems to work. As others said, don't apologise for no reason (but be polite) and try to focus on what they're saying instead of worrying about how you're coming across. Basically act. I'm a different person at work to what I am in my private life but it works for me.

Tail Docker

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I've never had this problem, tbh. I'm a teacher, so I'm automatically the boss (but I don't feel comfortable assuming "teacher" mode and prefer to be on the same level with someone instead of talking AT them, which many teachers seem to do) and I don't have to work with any colleagues except my boss, who lets us do my own thing. I'd have quite a low, booming kinda voice and I think that helps me generally as it makes me sound more assertive and perhaps confident than I really am sometimes, particularly at work dealing with my adults students who'd often have very high-up positions in their jobs. If I feel someone is patronising me, I don't deal with them.

I'd be conscious of your body language. Do you fidget a lot and touch your arms/hair/face and kind of bend yourself over instead of standing tall? Making a conscious effort to stand with your hands on your hips (as opposed to pulling at your hair, for example) and legs spread a bit instead of crossed and awkward seems to work. As others said, don't apologise for no reason (but be polite) and try to focus on what they're saying instead of worrying about how you're coming across. Basically act. I'm a different person at work to what I am in my private life but it works for me.

Very true, always hard to ignore. Tends to grab my attention.

TheBeardedLady

Tail Docker wrote: »

Very true, always hard to ignore. Tends to grab my attention.

Ooooh youuuuu! Get outta here, ye scamp!

beano345

I let it go once or twice....then unleash an awful dose of truth,had to do it just recently poor fcuker got an awful dismantling,but at the end of the day its his problem....respect it costs you nothing.

Frito

Pippy1976 wrote: »

Not all of the people who do it are senior.

Which leads me to believe that I'm the one with the problem in that I need to BE more assertive.

Although, what if someone speaks back in an unsavoury tone in front of a gang of colleagues making you look foolish. What should be the default response there, short of punching them in the face?

If possible then I think such behaviour should be challenged, but never make it about you, it's always their problem.

So for instance, rather than saying "I don't appreciate the tone you're taking with me" I would say "I'm going to stop you there because you're being rude, and that is not the way to behave with your colleagues". Even though they've been rude to you, you've not made the situation about you but referred the problem back to them.

Tail Docker

Frito wrote: »

If possible then I think such behaviour should be challenged, but never make it about you, it's always their problem.

So for instance, rather than saying "I don't appreciate the tone you're taking with me" I would say "I'm going to stop you there because you're being rude, and that is not the way to behave with your colleagues". Even though they've been rude to you, you've not made the situation about you but referred the problem back to them.

I both hate and admire people who can do this. I tend to just call rude people a cnut and wander off. I wish to subscribe to your newsletter..

KomradeBishop

If assertiveness is an issue, I think there are assertiveness classes that can be taken as well, to help teach the skills and build confidence there - don't know what kind of quality they are though.

Frito

Tail Docker wrote: »

I both hate and admire people who can do this. I tend to just call rude people a cnut and wander off. I wish to subscribe to your newsletter..

Maybe I'm a bit of a pessimist, but I think sometimes the worse thing you can do with professional bullies who like an audience is to let slip that what they're doing intimidates you, or undermines you. If you can correct them without drawing attention to how it makes you feel then all the better in those situations.