Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Central Bank to limit amount banks lend for home purchase
Options
Comments
-
ps, i'm on 30k, but took 20 years to get there.
Perhaps its time to realise that you dont earn enough to ever consider owning. Not trying to be a smart arse but not everybody will be able to buy their own house.
thats why schemes like social housing exist. New guidlines or not im afraid your jsut not a good bet to be able to own a house.0 -
Perhaps its time to realise that you dont earn enough to ever consider owning. Not trying to be a smart arse but not everybody will be able to buy their own house.
thats why schemes like social housing exist. New guidlines or not im afraid your jsut not a good bet to be able to own a house.
Unfortunately, I'd say a single man making 30k would be very low priority in the social housing scheme.0 -
It's very easy to buy a house. Just have the money.
It shouldn't be easy getting HUGE amounts of credit to buy a house though.
Fair enough - different question though.
For the record I think it should be easy to buy a house, it should be a priority of government to ensure housing is affordable, and I would vote for any party that made reducing house prices a priority.
You'd have to ask yourself why we are constantly fed the lie that rising house prices are a 'good thing' when they actually only benefit a small number of well-connected people.
There a sort of pernicious idea - that is all over this thread - that somehow a house is something you 'earn' through years of self-sacrifice, and if you can't afford one you have failed in some way. That is then used to excuse the fact that in this country a basic human right has become a racket that enriches the usual suspects and impoverishes the nation.0 -
The propsed new rules are a good thing.
There is no reason somebody cannot afford to save a 20% deposit if they want to buy and have the financial might to do so.
The average college graduate is what 22 years old ? Assuming a single person who wants to buy saving 20% over 8 to 13 years meaning buying at 30 - 35 is hardly the msot pressing of asks.
Granted the moving of goalposts for those in the 30 - 35 age bracket now who had a plan and were saving based on that are the ones that lose out here, but given there are exceptions to the rule I think people should hold their opinion until they see how things pan out.
Ultimatly people need to have forsight about their own financial future. I dont feel sorry for people caught twixt and between as a result of these changes. These will no doubt be the same peole on here in 35 - 40 years time complaining about not being able to live in retirement because of changes / cessation of the government pension.
Its your life, dont rely on the status quo remaining. Life plans shoudl be done well in advance not on a whim and with 2 - 3 years of planning. That goes for house buying too, plan and save.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »For the record I think it should be easy to buy a house.
in this country a basic human right has become a racket that enriches the usual suspects and impoverishes the nation.
Owning a home isnt a basic human right. Having a roof over your head is and nobody on here argues against that.
Your thought process is flawed becasue your a vested interest. Somebody who cant afford to buy and has the hump becasue you feel you should be able to.
Sorry tough sh1t. I made a lot of sacrafices to buy including missing out on sun holidays, working lots of overtime, driving 1 15 year old car, doing overtime, delaying having a family to save, etc etc so I could buy.
That was my perogative because I wanted to own a house and didnt want to rent / live in social housing. I paid more for my house in 2005 than its now worth, I never one looked for sympathy or a bailout as a result of that and I sure as hell have no sympathy now for somebody who cant buy because they fundamentally cannot afford it.
Thats the reality of life. The sooner the spoilt celtic tiger cubs get a jolt of reality the better.0 -
Advertisement
-
The propsed new rules are a good thing.
There is no reason somebody cannot afford to save a 20% deposit if they want to buy and have the financial might to do so.
The average college graduate is what 22 years old ? Assuming a single person who wants to buy saving 20% over 8 to 13 years meaning buying at 30 - 35 is hardly the msot pressing of asks.
Granted the moving of goalposts for those in the 30 - 35 age bracket now who had a plan and were saving based on that are the ones that lose out here, but given there are exceptions to the rule I think people should hold their opinion until they see how things pan out.
Ultimatly people need to have forsight about their own financial future. I dont feel sorry for people caught twixt and between as a result of these changes. These will no doubt be the same peole on here in 35 - 40 years time complaining about not being able to live in retirement because of changes / cessation of the government pension.
Its your life, dont rely on the status quo remaining. Life plans shoudl be done well in advance not on a whim and with 2 - 3 years of planning. That goes for house buying too, plan and save.
Do you think people who have 10% deposit, but not 20% one didn't plan, think and save for years? Not that I want to be sorry for them, of course, but there could be different circumstances in people's lives.0 -
The propsed new rules are a good thing.
There is no reason somebody cannot afford to save a 20% deposit if they want to buy and have the financial might to do so.
The average college graduate is what 22 years old ? Assuming a single person who wants to buy saving 20% over 8 to 13 years meaning buying at 30 - 35 is hardly the msot pressing of asks.
Granted the moving of goalposts for those in the 30 - 35 age bracket now who had a plan and were saving based on that are the ones that lose out here, but given there are exceptions to the rule I think people should hold their opinion until they see how things pan out.
Ultimatly people need to have forsight about their own financial future. I dont feel sorry for people caught twixt and between as a result of these changes. These will no doubt be the same peole on here in 35 - 40 years time complaining about not being able to live in retirement because of changes / cessation of the government pension.
Its your life, dont rely on the status quo remaining. Life plans shoudl be done well in advance not on a whim and with 2 - 3 years of planning. That goes for house buying too, plan and save.
Completely agree with all of the above.
As a FTB i also agree with the CB's recommendation and the reduction in volatility it will bring to house prices over the medium to long term as much as i might be slightly shafted by needing a house in the short term.0 -
Do you think people who have 10% deposit, but not 20% one didn't plan, think and save for years? Not that I want to be sorry for them, of course, but there could be different circumstances in people's lives.
No i dont think that. I think somebody who has been "saving for years" and only has 10% cannot really afford to own probably based on their circumstances.
when you say years its hard to give an exact answer. If somebody for example has only saved 10% over 10 years so say 30k for a 300k house then sorry i have no sympathy.
thats 3k a year or probably 230 a month owing to interest gains. Somebody in that situation quite frankly cannot afford to own with that small a level of disposable / savable income and if they can afford to own it would be in a house of lower value which is fine but people dont seem to accept that.
i could have bought a 5 bed in a leafy south dublin suburb with the amount of money the bank was throwing at me at the time. I however did not I bought a modest 3 bed semi d in a nice area for about half the price because I realised what was affordable and took the responsibility on myself. Many others did not and as a result of others financial illetracy then CB are looking to step in and protect people from themselves.
That can only be a good thing. After all common sense isnt all that common.
if you mean years and in 2-3. Then thats short term thinking and that person having to save another 10% in 2-3 years well i dont see the problem with that (besides which somebody in that scenario is i would suggest likely to get an exemption anyway)0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Fair enough - different question though.
For the record I think it should be easy to buy a house, it should be a priority of government to ensure housing is affordable, and I would vote for any party that made reducing house prices a priority.
You'd have to ask yourself why we are constantly fed the lie that rising house prices are a 'good thing' when they actually only benefit a small number of well-connected people.
There a sort of pernicious idea - that is all over this thread - that somehow a house is something you 'earn' through years of self-sacrifice, and if you can't afford one you have failed in some way. That is then used to excuse the fact that in this country a basic human right has become a racket that enriches the usual suspects and impoverishes the nation.
Inflation in general is seen as progress for an economy. It encourages people to spend their money now rather than save for later. Deflation hurts the economy.
Of course we shouldn't be encouraging speculation prices and credit bubbles which inflate the price out of kilter with the rest of the economy, but trying to force the price to decrease will create a situation where the sellers will hold out which will tighten supply and drive the price up.
The other issue is that house proud people middle aged and above are the voters that keep the politicians in power. They don't want public policy devaluing their property. This is why the government have let the reigns go during the boom and only catered for the working poor and unemployed in the social housing area.
The real problem to tackle is the public's perception of housing which is incredibly difficult. It's part of the life plan that everyone has, go to school, go to college, get a job, buy a car, find a spouse, buy a house, have kids, retire. Each of these milestones represents how successful you are, which is why we're so obsessed with all of them, the best school results, the best salary, the fastest car, the hottest wife and the ubiquitous demi-D in a leafy Dublin suburb.
The kind of societal shift in other places in Europe has required the widespread demolition of the war and subsequent rebuild to refocus people's housing need and won't be achieved in Ireland. The house will always be the status symbol for middle class Ireland and that will keep the price high.0 -
Your thought process is flawed becasue your a vested interest. Somebody who cant afford to buy and has the hump becasue you feel you should be able to.
Sorry tough sh1t. I made a lot of sacrafices to buy including missing out on sun holidays, working lots of overtime, driving 1 15 year old car, doing overtime, delaying having a family to save, etc etc so I could buy.
That was my perogative because I wanted to own a house and didnt want to rent / live in social housing. I paid more for my house in 2005 than its now worth, I never one looked for sympathy or a bailout as a result of that and I sure as hell have no sympathy now for somebody who cant buy because they fundamentally cannot afford it.
Thats the reality of life. The sooner the spoilt celtic tiger cubs get a jolt of reality the better.
That's fantastic.
Shame you don't know anything about me. If you had read the thread you would know I am a 40 something man happily living in a house I own with a very affordable tracker mortgage.
I guess the difference between me and you is that I don't feel so smug about it and believe that those not so fortunate are somehow morally inferior.0 -
Advertisement
-
Owning a home isnt a basic human right. Having a roof over your head is and nobody on here argues against that.
Your thought process is flawed becasue your a vested interest. Somebody who cant afford to buy and has the hump becasue you feel you should be able to.
Sorry tough sh1t. I made a lot of sacrafices to buy including missing out on sun holidays, working lots of overtime, driving 1 15 year old car, doing overtime, delaying having a family to save, etc etc so I could buy.
That was my perogative because I wanted to own a house and didnt want to rent / live in social housing. I paid more for my house in 2005 than its now worth, I never one looked for sympathy or a bailout as a result of that and I sure as hell have no sympathy now for somebody who cant buy because they fundamentally cannot afford it.
Thats the reality of life. The sooner the spoilt celtic tiger cubs get a jolt of reality the better.
BTW, has it occurred to you - even for one moment - that it doesn't have to be like that? That with a sensible housing policy in this country it wouldn't be necessary to save for 15 years and hook yourself up to a 30 year mortgage just to buy a house?
Of course you aren't entitled to live in any house you choose. But have you not noticed how a group of well-connected people (landowners, developers, bankers) got very, very wealthy during the celtic tiger? Does it not occur to you that their accumulated wealth is money taken from the hands of Irish workers?
The system is bent, and this 'reform' only makes it worse.0 -
The average college graduate is what 22 years old ? Assuming a single person who wants to buy saving 20% over 8 to 13 years meaning buying at 30 - 35 is hardly the msot pressing of asks.
So what you are saying is that as soon as you are out of college (and paying off your loans of course) you are saving serious money from your graduate salary.
And continuing for 13 years - until you are 35. At which point you can own your own home and start a family (if that's still biologically possible of course)
Like I said, you obviously seem to think getting to own a home should be some sort of herculean test designed to separate the worthy (people like you) from the unworthy (those losers who haven't saved enough)
I would like the government to make housing cheaper in order to allow normal working people to own a home without jumping through these hoops. And there are ways to do that.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »BTW, has it occurred to you - even for one moment - that it doesn't have to be like that? That with a sensible housing policy in this country it wouldn't be necessary to save for 15 years and hook yourself up to a 30 year mortgage just to buy a house?
Of course you aren't entitled to live in any house you choose. But have you not noticed how a group of well-connected people (landowners, developers, bankers) got very, very wealthy during the celtic tiger? Does it not occur to you that their accumulated wealth is money taken from the hands of Irish workers?
The system is bent, and this 'reform' only makes it worse.
The reform is to reign in the banks' lending policies, which is what a central bank as regulator for the financial industry is supposed to do. They even mention in the consulatation document that it is not their intention or desire to control house prices. The only way to bring the cost down is increase supply and/or reduce demand. As I mentioned in my last post, the demand won't be decreasing because of Irish attitudes to home ownership, but we can increase supply which is where the government haven't done anything yet to encourage.
You have mentioned previously some examples, such as CGT on NPPR in order to effect this increased supply, but as an economist on the radio pointed out the other day, there isn't a minister for housing, even after the property industry is ultimately what caused the problems in the economy. This has led to the kind of lack of joined-up thinking from the government in relation to housing.0 -
I think it is important for the Central Bank to get a wide range of views from consumers on the discusion paper - not just from the Banks and other big institutions.
From Page 25 of the discussion paper
Section 6: Making submissions
The Central Bank invites all stakeholders to provide comments on the draft regulations which form part of this Consultation Document and on the questions raised in this Consultation Paper. Please make your submissions electronically by email to realestate@ centralbank.ie
Responses should be submitted no later than 8th December 2014.
NB:
Please note that it is the policy of the Central Bank to publish all responses to its consultations and such responses will be made available on our website.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »BTW, has it occurred to you - even for one moment - that it doesn't have to be like that? That with a sensible housing policy in this country it wouldn't be necessary to save for 15 years and hook yourself up to a 30 year mortgage just to buy a house?
.
yeah that works great in Cuba doesnt in ......0 -
Deleted User wrote: »So what you are saying is that as soon as you are out of college (and paying off your loans of course) you are saving serious money from your graduate salary.
And continuing for 13 years - until you are 35. At which point you can own your own home and start a family (if that's still biologically possible of course)
Like I said, you obviously seem to think getting to own a home should be some sort of herculean test designed to separate the worthy (people like you) from the unworthy (those losers who haven't saved enough)
I would like the government to make housing cheaper in order to allow normal working people to own a home without jumping through these hoops. And there are ways to do that.
That's exactly what I did, plus you don't need to be saving silly money. I travelled the world and still managed to have a 6 figure deposit when the time came. I didn't have the typical Irish mentality of I must have it NOW. Plus people are moving around a lot during the first 10 years of their career between different cities and countries, so it doesn't make a lot of sense purchasing a house and then 18 months later having to sell it because a good career opportunity came up or having to turn down the career opportunity because you can't sell the house.
And there is absolutely nothing stopping you from starting a family in a house or apartment that you don't own. That silly mentality has to gotten rid of.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I would like the government to make housing cheaper in order to allow normal working people to own a home without jumping through these hoops. And there are ways to do that.
out of curiosity give me an example of a person or family you deem to be normal working people,
ages, salarys etc.0 -
out of curiosity give me an example of a person or family you deem to be normal working people,
ages, salarys etc.
well wikipedia has average gross monthly income (for working people) of €2,700, or €2,160 net.
That is just over 30,000 a year, which based on the new rulings mean that they can afford somewhere for about 135,000 contributing 20,000 that they have saved up themselves.
Not sure what you would get in Dublin for that. And on that salary, I am guessing it would take at least 5 years, and realistically a lot more, to save 20k. That's assuming of course no 'bumps' along the way.0 -
And there is absolutely nothing stopping you from starting a family in a house or apartment that you don't own. That silly mentality has to gotten rid of.
Do you have children?
In a sense it is a 'silly' mentality, but as we have done nothing to secure the rights of long term renters, it is a logical one.
"Sorry son, we're going to have to move to a smaller house away from your friends, because the landlord wants an extra €500 a month and we can't afford it"
I wouldn't want to be in that situation. Maybe you think it's just "tough sh1t" or something, to quote our friend D3PO0 -
Owning a home isnt a basic human right. Having a roof over your head is and nobody on here argues against that.
Your thought process is flawed becasue your a vested interest. Somebody who cant afford to buy and has the hump becasue you feel you should be able to.
Sorry tough sh1t. I made a lot of sacrafices to buy including missing out on sun holidays, working lots of overtime, driving 1 15 year old car, doing overtime, delaying having a family to save, etc etc so I could buy.
That was my perogative because I wanted to own a house and didnt want to rent / live in social housing. I paid more for my house in 2005 than its now worth, I never one looked for sympathy or a bailout as a result of that and I sure as hell have no sympathy now for somebody who cant buy because they fundamentally cannot afford it.
Thats the reality of life. The sooner the spoilt celtic tiger cubs get a jolt of reality the better.
But house prices are high because repossessions are not happening, and the govt and other vested interests are trying to pump up prices for their own self-interest, at a cost to the people who weren't greedy during the boom.
It's not fair, and such is life, but tough sh1t if someone is in negative equity and has had a harsh last 6 years, and tough sh1t to the people not paying their mortgages and blaming the banks for giving them too much money. Tough sh!t to the people in arrears who have restructured their loans and will be still paying it off in their 70's.
I'd rather see these people lose their homes and p1ss off to somewhere they can afford than have them looking down on younger folk and justifying to them why they can't buy.0 -
Advertisement
-
Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »The real problem to tackle is the public's perception of housing which is incredibly difficult. It's part of the life plan that everyone has, go to school, go to college, get a job, buy a car, find a spouse, buy a house, have kids, retire. Each of these milestones represents how successful you are, which is why we're so obsessed with all of them, the best school results, the best salary, the fastest car, the hottest wife and the ubiquitous demi-D in a leafy Dublin suburb.
I don't want a car, not everyone is an Irish sheep0 -
Deleted User wrote: »well wikipedia has average gross monthly income (for working people) of €2,700, or €2,160 net.
That is just over 30,000 a year, which based on the new rulings mean that they can afford somewhere for about 135,000 contributing 20,000 that they have saved up themselves.
Not sure what you would get in Dublin for that. And on that salary, I am guessing it would take at least 5 years, and realistically a lot more, to save 20k. That's assuming of course no 'bumps' along the way.
If you are a single buyer there are 40 apartments on myhome in the Dublin area priced at 100k or less.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Do you have children?
In a sense it is a 'silly' mentality, but as we have done nothing to secure the rights of long term renters, it is a logical one.
"Sorry son, we're going to have to move to a smaller house away from your friends, because the landlord wants an extra €500 a month and we can't afford it"
I wouldn't want to be in that situation. Maybe you think it's just "tough sh1t" or something, to quote our friend D3PO
I do have children.
I bought a house last year because the timing was right. Living in a great city, money was earning feck all interest in the bank, interest rates were very low and I was able to fix for 20 years for not much more than what I was paying in rent, plan on having more children so a bigger place was welcome and I am happily in a career position where I won't be moving for a long time.0 -
-
Deleted User wrote: »well wikipedia has average gross monthly income (for working people) of €2,700, or €2,160 net.
That is just over 30,000 a year, which based on the new rulings mean that they can afford somewhere for about 135,000 contributing 20,000 that they have saved up themselves.
Not sure what you would get in Dublin for that. And on that salary, I am guessing it would take at least 5 years, and realistically a lot more, to save 20k. That's assuming of course no 'bumps' along the way.
So to be clear what your saying is that all persons on 2160 net a month should be able to afford their own house ?
What kind of mortgage do you think soembody on that salary should be able to command ?
with the new rules 135k could buy that average joe a 1 bed apartment in dublin, so that meets your requirment of the average worker being able to afford their own home......
oh what now what if that person meets somebody and wants to start a family. Well then that single 30k earner most likely becomes 2 30k earners so their buying power doubles and now they can afford a house for 270k and have a lot of options ....
oh wait hang on let me guess everyone should be able to own a 3 or 4 bedroom 2 bath semi D in the right postcode with a large garden .........0 -
So to be clear what your saying is that all persons on 2160 net a month should be able to afford their own house ?
What kind of mortgage do you think soembody on that salary should be able to command ?
with the new rules 135k could buy that average joe a 1 bed apartment in dublin, so that meets your requirment of the average worker being able to afford their own home......
oh what now what if that person meets somebody and wants to start a family. Well then that single 30k earner most likely becomes 2 30k earners so their buying power doubles and now they can afford a house for 270k and have a lot of options ....
oh wait hang on let me guess everyone should be able to own a 3 or 4 bedroom 2 bath semi D in the right postcode with a large garden .........
Isnt it only a third of the second income?0 -
Potatoeman wrote: »Isnt it only a third of the second income?
think its actually 1x so perhaps for the point of illustration I've gone OTT but I think my point is understood.0 -
think its actually 1x so perhaps for the point of illustration I've gone OTT but I think my point is understood.
Well x3.5 and x1. So a couple would not have that much more buying power.
I dont know why they are not going on salary multiples instead of deposits. If they let NE owners trade up is it not a double standard?0 -
That's exactly what I did, plus you don't need to be saving silly money. I travelled the world and still managed to have a 6 figure deposit when the time came. I didn't have the typical Irish mentality of I must have it NOW. Plus people are moving around a lot during the first 10 years of their career between different cities and countries, so it doesn't make a lot of sense purchasing a house and then 18 months later having to sell it because a good career opportunity came up or having to turn down the career opportunity because you can't sell the house.
And there is absolutely nothing stopping you from starting a family in a house or apartment that you don't own. That silly mentality has to gotten rid of.
6 figure deposit?? How many years were you saving and do you have a pretty good salary the whole time? Did you have to pay rent during this time? Is that a couples saving? At over a grand a month roughly saving, its pretty hard to see how you managed that without some other factors coming into play because even those above normal salary couldnt do that0 -
Advertisement
-
Potatoeman wrote: »Well x3.5 and x1. So a couple would not have that much more buying power.
I dont know why they are not going on salary multiples instead of deposits. If they let NE owners trade up is it not a double standard?
yes it is a double standard on paper, but realistically how many NE owners trade up or have done so far this year ? figures suggest hardly anybody.
I also think the numbers still in NE would be low enough now (outside of those how took 100% mortgages or who are in default in some way) neither group really in a position to trade up its fair to say .
most people with a deposit and paying interest and capital on their mortgage even at the peak would be out of NE although their house may still be worth less than they paid for it.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement