Central Bank to limit amount banks lend for home purchase

RecordStraight

daheff wrote: »

The most serious consequence of this latest piece of meddling by the CB is that we'll see more and more property owned by investment funds (rather than landlords).

Investment funds will have the cash to buy up chunks of real estate (like they do in other countries). so as long as rents keep increasing, the yield will be higher for them so they will look to invest more. Over time this will mean that the average person will be priced out of the market more & more (at least of the popular places to live)- dont believe me? look at Germany /france/italy etc. People rent more there than here....why? Not because they want to, but because they cant afford to buy in the areas where they want to. As people in Germany/France/Italy are more open to renting to live in areas they want to (better rental laws etc), they are prepared to rent in the areas where they want to live.

If rental yields increase, rental properties will be built to meet the demand.

Jeremyr

RoboRat wrote: »

Good for you and fair play, but your situation doesn't reflect the scenario that a lot of people are feeling. If I didn't buy in 2006 I could probably buy for cash outright, if I stopped paying my mortgage after the sh1t hit the fan in 2008, I would would be out of insolvency and have around 100k too.

The facts are that a lot of people bought houses in the years preceding the boom when they were at their highest and are still in NE or about parity to what they owe... these new regulations completely screw us over.

Well no offense but the excuse that grown adults who blame the banks for their own reckless borrowing is obsurd to say the least

No one put them at gunpoint and marched them into the nearest bank and made them take out 110% mortgages for crazy priced houses


People still need to think for themselves and do the math eg i earn 3k per month my mortgage is 1.5k per month for the next 30 years , what happens if i lose my job etc


Temptations and offerings are everywhere around you ,you still have to think for yourself at the end of the day especially if you an Adult taking out a 20+year loan


My generation did not cause this mess so i for one feel no sympathy for people in NE afterall it was them who put us in this position in the first place and screwed the whole country up

mrmitty

gaius c wrote: »

Most ridiculous strawman on the thread and that takes some doing..

".

What's rediculouus about wanting all people to be treated equally?

And btw, I'm all for a min deposit requirement, only difference between you and me is that I'm sick and tired of the cute hoorisim Irish style and all the screwups that inevitably follow, you on the other hand seem to be okay with it as long as it suites you.


If the banks are going to require a deposit, let it be an across the board number for everyone.

RecordStraight

mrmitty wrote: »

What's rediculouus about wanting all people to be treated equally?

And btw, I'm all for a min deposit requirement, only difference between you and me is that I'm sick and tired of the cute hoorisim Irish style and all the screwups that inevitably follow, you on the other hand seem to be okay with it as long as it suites you.


If the banks are going to require a deposit, let it be an across the board number for everyone.

Agreed, should have been 20% across the board. But vested interests - including, astonishingly, the government - lobbied their balls off to prevent this.

audi12

Jeremyr wrote: »

Well no offense but the excuse that grown adults who blame the banks for their own reckless borrowing is obsurd to say the least

No one put them at gunpoint and marched them into the nearest bank and made them take out 110% mortgages for crazy priced houses


People still need to think for themselves and do the math eg i earn 3k per month my mortgage is 1.5k per month for the next 30 years , what happens if i lose my job etc


Temptations and offerings are everywhere around you ,you still have to think for yourself at the end of the day especially if you an Adult taking out a 20+year loan


My generation did not cause this mess so i for one feel no sympathy for people in NE afterall it was them who put us in this position in the first place and screwed the whole country up

You cant say that you must stick to the old reliable blame the banks for everything it is Ireland after all whinge and moan about everything and blame someone else

Jeremyr

audi12 wrote: »

You cant say that you must stick to the old reliable blame the banks for everything it is Ireland after all whinge and moan about everything and blame someone else

de banks !! de banks !! :rolleyes:

jaffa20

Does anyone know if the 3.5 times salary also a rule for first time buyers?

The_Conductor

jaffa20 wrote: »

Does anyone know if the 3.5 times salary also a rule for first time buyers?

Just out of curiousity- why would you imagine it isn't?

Jeremyr

The_Conductor wrote: »

Just out of curiousity- why would you imagine it isn't?

He must have thought it's still 2006

karenalot

TrishSimon wrote: »

His name is not on my mortgage its all under my name and I have only ever paid the mortgage from my money and my bank account as its only small € 601.88 pm in fact but seen as he is married to me he is now classed as a non FTB also if he applied on his own he would only get € 115K as his salary is approx 33K which is not enough to buy a house.

TrishSimon wrote: »

I pay rent on a property plus a mortgage as stated on a small property so in fact we can afford a mortgage on a house worth 230K !! We pay rent € 1100, I pay mortgage 601.88 and we also save approx 1100.00 per month so yes we can afford to pay a mortgage.

You said you are in D24. There are 3 x bed houses in Sundale and Ard Mor, Tallaght for 110k. Would these be an option? (I don't know anything about the area)
If you have a deposit of 20k you would need a 90k mortgage which could be paid down fairly quickly if you are currently putting away 2,200 a month between rent and savings (not including your rented apt)

Tobyglen

Something is going to have to be done about the rents. I'm paying 20% more in rent than I was 2 years ago due to Landlords taking advantage of the shortage of accommodation In Dublin.

2 Things need to happen;

1. Large scale building to satisfy the huge demand for housing in Dublin. My friend viewed 16 places before he got a room, Over 100 applicants for a room in some places. Madness.

2. Legislation to give good tenants more rights to curtail these large yearly increases in rent.

TrishSimon

karenalot wrote: »

You said you are in D24. There are 3 x bed houses in Sundale and Ard Mor, Tallaght for 110k. Would these be an option? (I don't know anything about the area)
If you have a deposit of 20k you would need a 90k mortgage which could be paid down fairly quickly if you are currently putting away 2,200 a month between rent and savings (not including your rented apt)

I am from Tallaght and live and own in Tallaght so I know all the areas and there is a reason why those houses are that price its because its West Tallaght and people can call me a snob but I would not live in those areas they are beside Jobstown, Kilnarden, Brookfield etc...I am from the opposite end of Tallaght and I feel more comfortable living there just as some of my friends from West Tallaght prefer to live up there as that is where they were born and bred so those areas are not an option for us.
I am meeting with a mortgage broker in a week or so to go through some options.

audi12

Shows how retarded and greedy some of the last generation were that this is the current state of play.

jaffa20

The_Conductor wrote: »

Just out of curiousity- why would you imagine it isn't?

Jeremyr wrote: »

He must have thought it's still 2006

I was just wondering as they have different % rules for first times buyers versus other buyers. I'd have no idea about rules in 2006.

If these new rules bring down prices/prevent further boom prices then that is a good thing. There would be no need to borrow more than 3.5 times your salary to afford a home hopefully!

Balmed Out

audi12 wrote: »

Shows how retarded and greedy some of the last generation were that this is the current state of play.

As someone who chose not to buy during the boom and of that generation I think your being a bit unfair.
Its difficult to understand with hindsight but most acquaintances of mine thought I was "retarded and greedy" not to buy at the time. Most people didn't feel prices would stop going up or that at least they would rise and then plateau, consequently there was an awful lot of pressure to buy now before everything became unaffordable for you. People thought I was being wishful in thinking prices would come down and expected too much for too little.

audi12

You just proved my point most people were mad to buy at any price you would think that ireland was the first country to have a crash happens time and time again its not like no one could see it coming.

A lot of irish people are like sheep cant be bothered to think for themselves listening to their neighbors who are no more educated on money or investing than themselves

RecordStraight

Balmed Out wrote: »

As someone who chose not to buy during the boom and of that generation I think your being a bit unfair.
Its difficult to understand with hindsight but most acquaintances of mine thought I was "retarded and greedy" not to buy at the time. Most people didn't feel prices would stop going up or that at least they would rise and then plateau, consequently there was an awful lot of pressure to buy now before everything became unaffordable for you. People thought I was being wishful in thinking prices would come down and expected too much for too little.

I doubt it. I imagine they pitied you as a mere renter!

dearg lady

audi12 wrote: »

You just proved my point most people were mad to buy at any price you would think that ireland was the first country to have a crash happens time and time again its not like no one could see it coming.

A lot of irish people are like sheep cant be bothered to think for themselves listening to their neighbors who are no more educated on money or investing than themselves

People made silly decisions yes, but most people aren't experts, calling them greedy and retarded is a bit much.

audi12

dearg lady wrote: »

People made silly decisions yes, but most people aren't experts, calling them greedy and retarded is a bit much.

A lot of people were greedy you must agree with that and not just the banks like people like some people love to point out over and over

RecordStraight

dearg lady wrote: »

People made silly decisions yes, but most people aren't experts, calling them greedy and retarded is a bit much.

The thing is that you don't need to be an expert - and of course many 'experts' got it wrong. What you need is common sense, and to know that seeking objective advice is essential.

Examples of common sense:

1. Prices cannot rise indefinitely beyond what people can pay.
2. If the rules change to allow you to borrow more, then the people you are competing with for the same property can borrow more too. Net result: you just end up with more debt for the same property.
3. If an 'expert' or 'economist' is working for someone who makes money from buying and selling property (e.g. a bank, an estate agent, a newspaper) then they are not giving objective advice.
4. Lower property prices are better for our national competitiveness.
5. Lower property prices mean we can spend more of our money on entertainment, holidays, eating out, etc. etc.
6. The government is trying to drive property prices up for the last 3 years because NAMA owns loads of property still, and the banks are still massively exposed to property.

...and so on and so forth. You don't need to be an expert to know and understand any of these points. If you are about to borrow hundreds of thousands of euro and have to pay it back with interest for the next 30 years, be damned sure you do some serious research first. I think most people spend more time researching their next phone or their wedding dress than they do before they commit to spending hundreds of thousands of euro for a property (plus the interest on the loan, which will usually be at least as much again).

dearg lady

audi12 wrote: »

A lot of people were greedy you must agree with that and not just the banks like people like some people love to point out over and over

Some people were, certainly, I would think the majority just wanted a place to live. I don't think it's a point that either of us can prove, it's just opinion. I suppose I feel a little bit of sympathy goes a long way

dearg lady

RecordStraight wrote: »

The thing is that you don't need to be an expert - and of course many 'experts' got it wrong. What you need is common sense, and to know that seeking objective advice is essential.

Examples of common sense:

1. Prices cannot rise indefinitely beyond what people can pay.
2. If the rules change to allow you to borrow more, then the people you are competing with for the same property can borrow more too. Net result: you just end up with more debt for the same property.
3. If an 'expert' or 'economist' is working for someone who makes money from buying and selling property (e.g. a bank, an estate agent, a newspaper) then they are not giving objective advice.
4. Lower property prices are better for our national competitiveness.
5. Lower property prices mean we can spend more of our money on entertainment, holidays, eating out, etc. etc.
6. The government is trying to drive property prices up for the last 3 years because NAMA owns loads of property still, and the banks are still massively exposed to property.

...and so on and so forth. You don't need to be an expert to know and understand any of these points. If you are about to borrow hundreds of thousands of euro and have to pay it back with interest for the next 30 years, be damned sure you do some serious research first. I think most people spend more time researching their next phone or their wedding dress than they do before they commit to spending hundreds of thousands of euro for a property (plus the interest on the loan, which will usually be at least as much again).

Yes, you're dead right, many so called experts got i wrong. I completely agree people didn't do research, rushed in, didn't think it through etc. I just think calling the majority of buyers during that particular period greedy and retarded is a bit harsh

audi12

dearg lady wrote: »

Some people were, certainly, I would think the majority just wanted a place to live. I don't think it's a point that either of us can prove, it's just opinion. I suppose I feel a little bit of sympathy goes a long way

Im not saying we shouldent feel sorry for some people but not everyone if you made a bad decesion you should have to pay the price not expect the tax payer to pay a Mortgage you freely decided to take on.

When everyone is saying buy you should hold off and when the sheep are saying dont buy you should be looking at houses with a view to buying

MayBea

molloyjh wrote: »

...Now the deposit for that house is €79k. Where the hell is anyone meant to get that kind of money from, especially off the back of a major recession?...

This is a rhetorical question, it puzzles me too. Yet every second property purchaser in Ireland is an all-cash buyer.

dearg lady

audi12 wrote: »

Im not saying we shouldent feel sorry for some people but not everyone if you made a bad decesion you should have to pay the price not expect the tax payer to pay a Mortgage you freely decided to take on.

When everyone is saying buy you should hold off and when the sheep are saying dont buy you should be looking at houses with a view to buying

I think (although stand to be corrected!) that most people ARE paying their mortgages, I'm not sure what mortgages taxpayers are paying?

audi12

dearg lady wrote: »

I think (although stand to be corrected!) that most people ARE paying their mortgages, I'm not sure what mortgages taxpayers are paying?

Maybe you missed all the cowards going bankrupt heading off to England

dearg lady

audi12 wrote: »

Maybe you missed all the cowards going bankrupt heading off to England

What sort of numbers of people are we talking here?

audi12

dearg lady wrote: »

What sort of numbers of people are we talking here?

Dont know I know I hear them on the radio acting as if they are hereos do talking about everyone should do it makes me sick.. I have lived on nothing after going back to college with loans scraping by well worth it easy to give up for some people

NotCominBack

Why cant we all just love each other and get along?

RecordStraight

MayBea wrote: »

This is a rhetorical question, it puzzles me too. Yet every second property purchaser in Ireland is an all-cash buyer.

If you want to buy a property, you need to save some money. This is known - or at least it was until the bubble.

Imagine a person earning 2500 per month after tax - not far off the average industrial wage. There's no reason why this person could not save 800-1000 per month if they are not going for expensive holidays or spending a couple of hundred euros on booze every weekend.

Hardly anyone has bought since 2007 - 8 years ago now. 8*12*800 = 76,800. This does not include any interest on savings. A couple who saved like this since 2007 will have over 150,000 plus interest in the bank.

However, most people want to spend their money on the latest phone, the Vegas trip, the new car, the boozy weekends, the expensive wedding, etc. etc., and then complain when they aren't handed the property of their dreams when they hit 30. Those clowns are in competition with with sensible couples with 150k in the bank already.