Windows 10

_Kaiser_ · 05-07-2015 1:02pm

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

I've updated my laptop with Windows 8.1 Pro to 10 (build 10130), by default it was on Slow ring but yesterday I changed this to Fast ring. No updates since then.

I've read about some users having issues getting updates through WU on 10130 but I've had other Defender updates etc install fine, should I just hang on a few days or is there something I should be checking?

Even at this build I'm finding it pretty good.

They've released 10162 (pretty solid overall) in ISO format so you can always download this and upgrade/install manually

wheresmybeaver · 05-07-2015 1:40pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

They've released 10162 (pretty solid overall) in ISO format so you can always download this and upgrade/install manually

Thanks but I'd rather avoid a fresh start as the VAIO laptop I'm using has some tricky driver / function key install procedures.

I think I'll leave it a few days and see if the update becomes available through WU. Otherwise running stable (so far) so I'm in no rush.

Bayberry · 05-07-2015 3:17pm

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

I've updated my laptop with Windows 8.1 Pro to 10 (build 10130), by default it was on Slow ring but yesterday I changed this to Fast ring. No updates since then.

When you switch from Slow to Fast there's a warning that it may take up to 24 hours for upates to show up.

ED E · 05-07-2015 3:44pm

CatInABox wrote: »

It's as solid as the last two. Three builds in four days, they're really hammering it into shape for launch now.

Coffee machines in Redmond running at full tilt for this one.

Did something to my 08R2 rig since I last booted my W10 vms to cause them to BSOD, but I've no idea what

Jhcx · 05-07-2015 5:59pm

Anyone else having issues with the system failing to restart. Ive been having an issue since day one on the laptop that when i click a restart or the system reboots itself.upon reloading it crashes and is unable to find the system. telling me the realtek module and click any key to boot from storage but that fails to work and a manual power down is needed has no problem loading from normal just not on restarts. noticed the desktop today also failed to respond to a restart requiring me to manually power it down and start again.

ED E · 06-07-2015 5:02pm

Jhcx wrote: »

Anyone else having issues with the system failing to restart. Ive been having an issue since day one on the laptop that when i click a restart or the system reboots itself.upon reloading it crashes and is unable to find the system. telling me the realtek module and click any key to boot from storage but that fails to work and a manual power down is needed has no problem loading from normal just not on restarts. noticed the desktop today also failed to respond to a restart requiring me to manually power it down and start again.

Havent seen that. But mine are in VM container so no real hardware interaction.

Mark Wilson reports that the first RTM candidate for Windows 10 has been spotted: build 10176. Leaks and sources have suggested the company intends to finalize the operating system later this week, perhaps as early as July 9th. This would give Microsoft almost three weeks to distribute it to retailers and devicemakers before the July 29th launch date. "While the RTM process has been a significant milestone for previous releases of Windows, it’s more of a minor one for Windows 10. Microsoft is moving Windows 10 to a 'Windows as a service' model that means the operating system is regularly updated."

Here we go!

wheresmybeaver · 07-07-2015 2:53pm

Ok so I got updated to 10162 last night, it took a few days after changing to fast ring for it to get going from 10130.

Have to say it's working really well, it has even fixed some issues from my old Windows 8.1 install in relation to the Wifi adapter taking sometimes up to 15 seconds to reconnect after resuming from sleep and a power saving display issue that wouldn't go away until rebooting. I had only planned on installing the Insider preview to see if my laptop was too old to move to 10 (the update from 7 to 8 was a major pain) but looks like it's staying.

I didn't not like the Start menu in 8.1 but this implementation is a definite improvement, and it makes huge sense to run Windows Store apps in a window. That is the name of the OS after all.

Edge is good but I'm missing the ability to pin websites to the taskbar and my Tracking Protection adblock list. Hopefully these will show up in updates in the next few months.

Roll on RTM

_Kaiser_ · 07-07-2015 10:01pm

Running 10162 here on an old DELL E6410 while I wait on my new machine to arrive and it's pretty solid and runs very well even on older hardware like this, but unless 10176 fixes a lot more issues and UI quirks, I don't think it's ready for the big time (RTM) yet myself.

The Windows Update layout mentioned above is one thing, but the new Settings app really highlights (in a bad way) how even more jumbled this OS is in terms of UIX than Win 8.x is/was... we now have Win 10 interfaces, Win 8.x holdovers and Win 7/Vista/XP legacies like Control Panel and pretty much all the system level settings (Admin Tools, System, Dev Manager etc)

To be honest, as someone who has been playing with Windows since the days of DOS and 3.1, if they don't do something here (and I don't mean dumbing it down/removing those links) I can see it turning into another 8.. why for example Win Update is now a seperate (poorer IMO) app that they removed from Control Panel, but virtually all other settings can be accessed in at least 2 interfaces is beyond me.

They've done a lot of nice things though (but the Start Menu hasn't grown on me with all the wasted tiles space - even more an issue on a smaller screen - so I've gone back to using Start10 Beta), and it's cool how I can now directly stream to my LG TV by just right-clicking the media file, but as someone who knows a fair bit about Windows, being thrown back and forth between interfaces is NOT cool and this was probably the biggest complaint about 8.x.. although at least there you could turn off virtually all of the Metro/Modern UI with a 3rd party tool like the aforementioned Start 8/10...

.. Incidentally, anyone know how to change/remove that "Hero" wallpaper from the user login screen? (not to be confused with the lock screen)

Slutmonkey57b · 08-07-2015 12:57am

Have to agree. When I look at every *new* idea they've put into windows since 7, in absolutely every case, it's a worse experience, badly thought out and badly implemented.

There is literally nothing that this OS does which makes me think "oh that makes my life better". It's either a step back into the 80's or it's a confused half baked mess.

DX12 only exists because of Mantle, so I can't even give them credit for that.

Sad times, and I worry for the future of the company. The only bright spot I can see is that enterprises have only recently moved to 7 and there no way they're going to roll this out to anyone. Maybe in another 10 years there'll be a version of windows which will make a useful upgrade. This certainly isn't it.

CatInABox · 08-07-2015 9:32am

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Have to agree. When I look at every *new* idea they've put into windows since 7, in absolutely every case, it's a worse experience, badly thought out and badly implemented.

There is literally nothing that this OS does which makes me think "oh that makes my life better". It's either a step back into the 80's or it's a confused half baked mess.

DX12 only exists because of Mantle, so I can't even give them credit for that.

Sad times, and I worry for the future of the company. The only bright spot I can see is that enterprises have only recently moved to 7 and there no way they're going to roll this out to anyone. Maybe in another 10 years there'll be a version of windows which will make a useful upgrade. This certainly isn't it.

You don't like the right click start menu? The lowered system requirements, and the faster boot times? Syncing your settings? Expanded keyboard shortcuts? Virtual desktops? File transfer improvements? The new task manager? Improved sandboxing?

I understand that there are things about it that you don't like, but to say that there's nothing improved is a vast, vast overstatement. Personally, I'm loving the new features. I can also acknowledge that there are parts of the OS that need improvement.

_Kaiser_ · 08-07-2015 10:05am

What worries me as well to be honest is that while the plan is to actively keep developing/improving the OS after RTM, that's all well and good to IT savvy people who will understand and appreciate it.
You average punter in the street will install it, see more confusing changes (and I've gotten lost in the new Settings app myself), say "feck this, it's worse than Win 8" and roll back.

If that happens, getting them to try it again is a much harder job. In truth - though it's too late now - while there is a lot to like about the changes that have been implemented, I'd rather they took an extra 6 months to further refine things and make it consistent before they release it to RTM over the planned strategy.

obezyana · 08-07-2015 10:31am

Anyone have an activation issue with 10162? I updated last night and now its giving an activation error.

CatInABox · 08-07-2015 10:40am

obezyana wrote: »

Anyone have an activation issue with 10162? I updated last night and now its giving an activation error.

Yeah, they're working on the activation process apparently. It was meant to be fixed in a few days, but I'd guess that it'll be the next build before it's fixed.

obezyana · 08-07-2015 10:49am

CatInABox wrote: »

Yeah, they're working on the activation process apparently. It was meant to be fixed in a few days, but I'd guess that it'll be the next build before it's fixed.

Ah right cool, glad i asked before i went problem solving.

Slutmonkey57b · 08-07-2015 11:42am

CatInABox wrote: »

You don't like the right click start menu? The lowered system requirements, and the faster boot times? Syncing your settings? Expanded keyboard shortcuts? Virtual desktops? File transfer improvements? The new task manager? Improved sandboxing?

I understand that there are things about it that you don't like, but to say that there's nothing improved is a vast, vast overstatement. Personally, I'm loving the new features. I can also acknowledge that there are parts of the OS that need improvement.

1. The previous start menu was perfectly functional and there's nothing about the new one which allows me to work smarter, faster or more effectively.

2. The lowered system requirements are offset by the performance bugs and incompatibilities. And they're still only fixing the massive problems and inefficiencies introduced by vista.

3. Start times are not significantly reduced on my system (legacy bios) and a much better improvement comes from the use of an ssd anyway.

4. Syncing what settings? Who has a windows phone? Or tablet? They've got vanishingly small market share. Useful to 2% of the market.

5. More keyboard shortcuts: Microsoft's own research for changes to explorer in win 8 showed that most people use shortcuts for copy and paste, and not much else.

5b. More useful would be ensuring that people don't have to do 3 actions to achieve something where previously they did 1 (the win update example is just one of many).

6. Virtual desktops aren't even much in use for Linux nerds never mind normal desktop windows users. What's more useful: virtual desktops or a window design which actually allows you to see clearly which is the active window? The latter.

7. Something which could and should have been done 10 years ago. Also available using third party tools. And given the choice between that and replacing NTFS, what would you rather they spent their time on?

8. Improved Sandbox hasn't stopped the bluescreen phenomenon.

I don't deny they've changed things. At best, the changes they've made are an improvement to minor annoyances, like file copy. The rest of the time, they're worse or irrelevant to 90-95% of users.

jumbobreakfast · 08-07-2015 12:17pm

This article is making me a bit apprehensive about upgrading on the 29th:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/07/windows_10_for_windows_8_and_7_users/

I'll probably upgrade anyway as I need to do a reinstall of windows but it looks like I'll have to deal with some bad design choices and bugs.

obezyana · 08-07-2015 12:51pm

I personally feel Windows 10 is the best they have done. I love using it. The boot time is quick, the start menu is nice and easy to personalise, Edge is quick and responsive. There is loads more improvements that i feel will get better come the release date and any subsequent release thereafter. Microsoft have finally developed a system that i think will work without serious issues and its very user friendly. I don't miss my injured Mac as much since iv installed 10. Don't get me wrong I still think Mac is superior, its more like i don't cry out in anger anymore anytime i use Windows.

5uspect · 08-07-2015 1:23pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

6. Virtual desktops aren't even much in use for Linux nerds never mind normal desktop windows users. What's more useful: virtual desktops or a window design which actually allows you to see clearly which is the active window? The latter.

While I agree with most of your points here, I take offense at the idea that virtual desktops aren't much use

. They're incredibly useful when you've got a few workflows going on at the same time.

_Kaiser_ · 08-07-2015 2:20pm

obezyana wrote: »

Anyone have an activation issue with 10162? I updated last night and now its giving an activation error.

Did you try the product key they list on the ISO site? Had a similar error and that sorted it out.

obezyana · 08-07-2015 2:24pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Did you try the product key they list on the ISO site? Had a similar error and that sorted it out.

No I didnt try that. Ill give it a go and see if it works. Everything is still working as normal only the watermark is on the bottom right of the screen and in the settings its saying its not activated. Ill try your option and get back and let you know.

Slutmonkey57b · 08-07-2015 2:27pm

5uspect wrote: »

While I agree with most of your points here, I take offense at the idea that virtual desktops aren't much use . They're incredibly useful when you've got a few workflows going on at the same time.

Well i said they weren't *in* use much. Multiple monitors is a much, much, much better solution in any case.

obezyana · 08-07-2015 2:37pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Did you try the product key they list on the ISO site? Had a similar error and that sorted it out.

Just sorted this, thanks your advice worked a treat

_Kaiser_ · 08-07-2015 2:53pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

1. The previous start menu was perfectly functional and there's nothing about the new one which allows me to work smarter, faster or more effectively.

2. The lowered system requirements are offset by the performance bugs and incompatibilities. And they're still only fixing the massive problems and inefficiencies introduced by vista.

3. Start times are not significantly reduced on my system (legacy bios) and a much better improvement comes from the use of an ssd anyway.

4. Syncing what settings? Who has a windows phone? Or tablet? They've got vanishingly small market share. Useful to 2% of the market.

5. More keyboard shortcuts: Microsoft's own research for changes to explorer in win 8 showed that most people use shortcuts for copy and paste, and not much else.

5b. More useful would be ensuring that people don't have to do 3 actions to achieve something where previously they did 1 (the win update example is just one of many).

6. Virtual desktops aren't even much in use for Linux nerds never mind normal desktop windows users. What's more useful: virtual desktops or a window design which actually allows you to see clearly which is the active window? The latter.

7. Something which could and should have been done 10 years ago. Also available using third party tools. And given the choice between that and replacing NTFS, what would you rather they spent their time on?

8. Improved Sandbox hasn't stopped the bluescreen phenomenon.

I don't deny they've changed things. At best, the changes they've made are an improvement to minor annoyances, like file copy. The rest of the time, they're worse or irrelevant to 90-95% of users.

1. Agreed.. They've yet to improve on the Win 7 start menu (which is why I use a 3rd party utility to restore it)

2/3. Lowered system requirements are nice, but agree that an SSD will make a big improvement even to WIn 7 systems

4. I think this refers to syncing in the cloud, like how Chrome restores all your bookmarks/add-ons etc when you sign in. It'll be interesting to see if Win 10 on Win Phone makes any significant difference to that platform's take up though.

5. Relying on keyboard shortcuts to make up for the shortcomings in the UI (as they did in Win 8) is a mistake. It's a handy benefit to users, not a primary feature

5b. Agreed.. why they removed Win Update from CP but left everything else is beyond me

6. Have to agree. Virtual Desktops is something 99% of users don't need (or will even know they have). Virtual machines however is more useful but we have that in Hyper-V

7. ?? Don't leave me in suspense :P

8. Don't think blue screens will ever go away. The stupid dumbing-down that they introduced in Win 8 with sad smileys is annoying, as is the fact that the default choice is STILL for Windows to auto-reboot on an error! VERY useful when you're trying to capture the details of the problem :rolleyes:

and my own...

9. What's the compelling reason to upgrade? A Win 7 machine is still supported to 2020, will run just as well with the right hardware and will run all the same programs. Apps? I'm sorry but I'm not convinced on their utility outside of a smartphone or tablet over a proper x86 application. If you're running Win 8.1 there's even less of a NEED to upgrade IMO

10. I'm recycling this one from my earlier post

but the lack of consistency in the UI is very off-putting and indeed frustrating the more I use it. Win 8.1 was criticized for having the Metro UI dumped on top of it, but Win 10 seems to be making the same mistake

Bayberry · 08-07-2015 3:10pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

4. I think this refers to syncing in the cloud, like how Chrome restores all your bookmarks/add-ons etc when you sign in. It'll be interesting to see if Win 10 on Win Phone makes any significant difference to that platform's take up though.

It's not just for Windows Phones - you can set up your iPhone or Android phone to synch you photos to OneDrive automatically, and OneNote is also available for all platforms, and obviously you can synch you mail and calendar on both phone and desktop - communicating this concept to non-technical users will be extremely important, though. There's a new Phone Companion App that's supposed to do that, but I can't see it through the eyes on a non-technical user, so I'm not sure how well it will work.

Bayberry · 08-07-2015 3:26pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

9. What's the compelling reason to upgrade? A Win 7 machine is still supported to 2020, will run just as well with the right hardware and will run all the same programs. Apps? I'm sorry but I'm not convinced on their utility outside of a smartphone or tablet over a proper x86 application. If you're running Win 8.1 there's even less of a NEED to upgrade IMO

It's 2015 - it's not "Desktop/Laptop or Tablet/Phone", it's "Desktop/Laptop AND Tablet/Phone". Windows 10 just makes a better companion to your Tablet or Phone than any previous version of Windows. Ordinary users will lap that functionality up - if they know about it. And that's really key - will ordinary users pick up on that capability "organically" an spread the word from friend to friend, the way they did with facebook, or smartphones, or will it continue to be something that they only see references to in ads on TV, and the occasional "soft tech" puff piece that turns up in the weekend supplements?

Slutmonkey57b · 08-07-2015 3:28pm

Bayberry wrote: »

It's not just for Windows Phones - you can set up your iPhone or Android phone to synch you photos to OneDrive automatically, and OneNote is also available for all platforms, and obviously you can synch you mail and calendar on both phone and desktop - communicating this concept to non-technical users will be extremely important, though. There's a new Phone Companion App that's supposed to do that, but I can't see it through the eyes on a non-technical user, so I'm not sure how well it will work.

Sync in one drive and one note isn't win10 specific though, it relied on support in other platform specific apps.

Very useful, but nothing to do with win 10 itself.

Slutmonkey57b · 08-07-2015 3:32pm

Bayberry wrote: »

It's 2015 - it's not "Desktop/Laptop or Tablet/Phone", it's "Desktop/Laptop AND Tablet/Phone". Windows 10 just makes a better companion to your Tablet or Phone than any previous version of Windows. Ordinary users will lap that functionality up - if they know about it. And that's really key - will ordinary users pick up on that capability "organically" an spread the word from friend to friend, the way they did with facebook, or smartphones, or will it continue to be something that they only see references to in ads on TV, and the occasional "soft tech" puff piece that turns up in the weekend supplements?

Ordinary users don't have windows phone mobiles. Is anything in the windows 10 launch going to persuade them to drop android, or iPhone? Type twitter into the search bar in the windows 10 store and what do you get? The official app and a lot of spammy adware. That's what they'll see, and tell people about.

Bayberry · 08-07-2015 3:37pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Sync in one drive and one note isn't win10 specific though, it relied on support in other platform specific apps.

Very useful, but nothing to do with win 10 itself.

I disagree - while the functionality has been available for earlier versions, it's now key to what Windows 10 is trying to be. "Cloud First" is a core part of Win10s purpose.

Bayberry · 08-07-2015 3:45pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Ordinary users don't have windows phone mobiles. Is anything in the windows 10 launch going to persuade them to drop android, or iPhone?

They don't need to - the Phone Companion app works with Android and iPhone too - the question is whether ordinary users will adopt it or not. It'll be a no-brainer for Windows Phone users, but I don't know how Android and iPhone users will react. (There's also the question of how it works with a "family" PC shared between 4 or 5 people each with their own phones, but that's already an issue for e-mail, and people have worked it out).

CatInABox · 08-07-2015 4:37pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

1. The previous start menu was perfectly functional and there's nothing about the new one which allows me to work smarter, faster or more effectively.

2. The lowered system requirements are offset by the performance bugs and incompatibilities. And they're still only fixing the massive problems and inefficiencies introduced by vista.

3. Start times are not significantly reduced on my system (legacy bios) and a much better improvement comes from the use of an ssd anyway.

4. Syncing what settings? Who has a windows phone? Or tablet? They've got vanishingly small market share. Useful to 2% of the market.

5. More keyboard shortcuts: Microsoft's own research for changes to explorer in win 8 showed that most people use shortcuts for copy and paste, and not much else.

5b. More useful would be ensuring that people don't have to do 3 actions to achieve something where previously they did 1 (the win update example is just one of many).

6. Virtual desktops aren't even much in use for Linux nerds never mind normal desktop windows users. What's more useful: virtual desktops or a window design which actually allows you to see clearly which is the active window? The latter.

7. Something which could and should have been done 10 years ago. Also available using third party tools. And given the choice between that and replacing NTFS, what would you rather they spent their time on?

8. Improved Sandbox hasn't stopped the bluescreen phenomenon.

I don't deny they've changed things. At best, the changes they've made are an improvement to minor annoyances, like file copy. The rest of the time, they're worse or irrelevant to 90-95% of users.

1. Nothing worse about it either to be honest. The fact that it require more customisation on the part of the user is probably my main complaint about it.

2. Performance bugs? Like what? What type of incompatibilities, because everything I've got still works just fine with it. What inefficiencies with Vista weren't fixed by the time Windows 7 came out?

3. Not significantly, but it still improved. Adding an SSD is of course going to do wonders for any computer, but that's irrelevant really, as it's the same for every OS, not just Windows

4. The settings sync is not just for phones, but also for desktops as well, so if you add your account to another computer, your settings (theme, passwords, etc) will follow you. For me, that's incredibly handy.

5. Whether people use them or not, it's still an improvement for people who do.

5b. Fair enough, but if you want, you can create a shortcut to Windows Update on the start menu.

6. Perhaps not for a normal desktop user, but it's useful for me. I've also never had a problem with know which window is active.

7. Yes, they could have done it ten years ago rather than three years ago, but it's better late than never. Also, I'd prefer if they did both, to be honest.

8. You're never going to eliminate computer crashes completely, and moving from Windows XP to 7 to 8 to 10 has resulted in a dramatic reduction in the amount of crashes for me. Anecdotal, I know, but then I'd say the same of most of your complaints.

Windows 10

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