Irish Water application pack

delahuntv

Ludo wrote: »

Oh dear...one excellent post above from you and then you resort to the favorite word on boards.ie..."brigade".

.

but unfortunately there is always a group of people who make up stories to put the fear into people, whether its water charges, pylons, MMR vaccines, nuclear energy or even Garth Brooks concerts!.

Its a brigade because its always several groups involved. - They never allow for proper debate and anyone not agreeing with their view is not permitted. They use emotional wording and those who won't or are not able to verify what is being said, get riled up and convince themselves everything is true.

SF were famous for it in NI - they still do it, but nowhere in the same vein as they used to do it in Northern Ireland. At the same time, the loyalists and Paisley were as culpable and hence you had fierce sectarianism until most of the changed their tune.

You also have those who have genuine arguments against issues, but they get drowned out by the aggressive nature of the anti-brigade who are more interested in power than in the actual issues at hand (notice how its always the same groups of people that are against everything and anything).

There are advantages and disadvantages to charging for water separately instead of it being paid from general taxation - but many of the louder arguments just don't add up - yet for a lot of people, these are the arguments they keep putting forward.

Mumha

delahuntv wrote: »

Boards members and employees are quite different.

Employees are not retired council planners - any staff member that transferred over did not get any lump sum or retirement payment. They simply had their employment terms continued, but with a different name on the payslip.

Same system would be for any private company taking over any other private company.

But as usual the anti brigade will say things like this because they know most people won't check it. (happens with most anti groups from windfarms to pylons to fracking etc etc - they thrive on fear knowing most things won't be challenged by supporters who are hoodwinked)

Unfortunately it has become circular over the last number of years. You're spot on about how fear is being used to create discontent. I was at an event recently where a handful were driving on pensioners through the use of fear and it was soul destroying to see. As it turned out, those holding the meeting were able to answer the claptrap and lies, but you could see how every utterance was being used against them.

Because of what FF/Banks/Developers did to the economy, anyone with any old spiel will be "trusted" over those in authority, regardless of how baseless the arguments are. Hard to know how this can be reversed.

Ludo

delahuntv wrote: »

but unfortunately there is always a group of people who make up stories to put the fear into people, whether its water charges, pylons, MMR vaccines, nuclear energy or even Garth Brooks concerts!.

Its a brigade because its always several groups involved. - They never allow for proper debate and anyone not agreeing with their view is not permitted. They use emotional wording and those who won't or are not able to verify what is being said, get riled up and convince themselves everything is true.

SF were famous for it in NI - they still do it, but nowhere in the same vein as they used to do it in Northern Ireland. At the same time, the loyalists and Paisley were as culpable and hence you had fierce sectarianism until most of the changed their tune.

You also have those who have genuine arguments against issues, but they get drowned out by the aggressive nature of the anti-brigade who are more interested in power than in the actual issues at hand (notice how its always the same groups of people that are against everything and anything).

There are advantages and disadvantages to charging for water separately instead of it being paid from general taxation - but many of the louder arguments just don't add up - yet for a lot of people, these are the arguments they keep putting forward.

But you are using it in a normal polite debate here and therefore lumping everyone who disagrees with water charges into a "brigade" including i.e. everyone who disagrees with you on this thread. At least that is what it ALWAYS comes across as even if that is not what you meant.
It has nothing to do with fear or any of the other things you mention above. It is simply a cheap put down which is used in an attempt to stifle debate by hoping people won't speak against your opinion for fear of being associated with this "brigade" which is always referred to in a derogatory tone.

Look..sorry if this is not what you meant but the use of that word is a real pet hate of mine. I'm not trying to insult you or anything. Your previous post was one of the best I have seen on the subject. It just drives me nuts when people use it on boards...usually along the lines of "in before the pc brigade come along" etc etc.

rob316

Some fella gone on hunger strike now until the 25th over the charges. Bit extreme I'd have thought.

MrFrisp

rob316 wrote: »

Some fella gone on hunger strike now until the 25th over the charges. Bit extreme I'd have thought.

A step way too far.

He'll gain nothing from it.. Does he think they will scrap the water charges because he's gone on hunger strike?

Fair dues for putting in an effort, but it's not the right way to go about it.
.

Ninjah Tigah

At least wait until you see the budget before burning the application. As for hunger striking, I betcha he'll be staying alive on water. If his point is to demonstrate how vital it is, then he shouldn't be drinking water at all.

rob316

I'm delighted to see someone take a stand especially a young person but he should think of his health, its just not worth it. He plans to go 11 days without food, it's a step too far.

There was guy who did the same over the property tax outside leinster house and they walked over him, he just gave up in the end.

There is a bigger backlash to this though as it effects everyone, whether you live in owned, rented or council property.

rob316

Ninjah Tigah wrote: »

At least wait until you see the budget before burning the application. As for hunger striking, I betcha he'll be staying alive on water. If his point is to demonstrate how vital it is, then he shouldn't be drinking water at all.

~Really that's a stupid comment

V.W.L 11

the budget will be to sway all those who have returned their packs,or just point blank wont fill them out!the government is dangling the carrot at the electorate again!they'll introduce measures to get compliance,once that and the election are sorted withdraw the lot! :rolleyes:

Ninjah Tigah

rob316 wrote: »

~Really that's a stupid comment

The point was the irony that he'd self-harm when he's protesting about the government harming his purchasing power and therefore himself. Sorry, probably should have said that at the end of the comment. :P

the beer revolu

Unless a hunger striker is, if necessary, willing to die it really is just a big bluff and stunt.

The way hunger strikes have always worked is on the idea of "I will not eat anything until my demands are met - even if that means dying. "

This one is just some guy saying "I'm angry so I'm not going to eat for 11 days."

I think calling this a hunger strike is disrespectful to those who have suffered and died for civil liberty, justice and freedom around the world throughout history.

Let's call it a publicity stunt involving not eating for a while.

Dbu

rob316 wrote: »

Some fella gone on hunger strike now until the 25th over the charges. Bit extreme I'd have thought.

Thats the most idiotic thing i have heard in a long time.
Does the guy work?

Ludo

Dbu wrote: »

Thats the most idiotic thing i have heard in a long time.

Agreed.

Dbu wrote: »

Does the guy work?

Does that matter? Are only people with jobs allowed protest about things or have an opinion?

54kroc

Ludo wrote: »

Agreed.



Does that matter? Are only people with jobs allowed protest about things or have an opinion?

Everyone is allowed an opinion, but I wonder if he put as much activity into finding or keeping a job would he be in a better position than he is now.

Dbu

Ludo wrote: »

Agreed.



Does that matter? Are only people with jobs allowed protest about things or have an opinion?

No I was just wondering, how did he get so much time of work..:cool:

evilivor

Dbu wrote: »

No I was just wondering, how did he get so much time of work..:cool:

Perhaps he's working remotely using the City's free wifi?

pwurple

A few days of not eating can't be called a hunger strike, that's a diet ffs!

Swear to god, the media are hungry for scraps if they keep covering this nonsense.

rob316

If he doesn't last till the 25th and gives in he will look like a clown and make the anti-water movement look weak. He has really put himself out there for the cause.

j8wk2feszrnpao

11 days without food is not a diet.

ABajaninCork

So....

With the advent of the water rates, does this mean people will give up the asinine idea of running their taps in the winter in a vain attempt to stop their pipes from freezing? Or will they spend a few quid, get a grant and actually insulate their houses and lag their pipes properly?

Mumha

ABajaninCork wrote: »

So....

With the advent of the water rates, does this mean people will give up the asinine idea of running their taps in the winter in a vain attempt to stop their pipes from freezing? Or will they spend a few quid, get a grant and actually insulate their houses and lag their pipes properly?

Reported for making sense....

Ludo

ABajaninCork wrote: »

So....

With the advent of the water rates, does this mean people will give up the asinine idea of running their taps in the winter in a vain attempt to stop their pipes from freezing? Or will they spend a few quid, get a grant and actually insulate their houses and lag their pipes properly?

Pity that letting them run a tiny amount does actually prevent pipes from bursting so not in vain at all and it also makes freezing less likely in EXTREME cold snaps. It does work. And all the insulation and lagging wont help if the freezing happens outside the house because some cowboy builder didn't bury the water pipes below the frost line depth.
But in fairness it would want to be 2010 type cold for this to necessary..not a normal -5 or -6C.

ABajaninCork

Ludo wrote: »

Pity that letting them run a tiny amount does actually prevent pipes from bursting so not in vain at all and it also makes freezing less likely in EXTREME cold snaps. It does work. And all the insulation and lagging wont help if the freezing happens outside the house because some cowboy builder didn't bury the water pipes below the frost line depth.
But in fairness it would want to be 2010 type cold for this to necessary..not a normal -5 or -6C.

That is true. And would apply to quite a lot of modern builds I would imagine. But I've seen this nonsense in older homes too...

V.W.L 11

are people more encouraged or discouraged to sign up since the budget?

iainBB

V.W.L 11 wrote: »

are people more encouraged or discouraged to sign up since the budget?

I think it's a sign that the protest and non payment is working. The attempt at the short term relief for some people.

V.W.L 11

iainBB wrote: »

I think it's a sign that the protest and non payment is working. The attempt at the short term relief for some people.

I agree,between now and the next budget will tell a lot though,non payment,more protests etc!we all know they will "buy" the general election of 2016 by introducing more measures regarding water charges.if re-elected,abolish all discounts and the status quo will resumes until the following G.E of 2021,what a country we live in :rolleyes:

Ruu

As this thread appears to be little about Cork City anymore, closing off. There are a few threads on Irish Water listed below for further discussion.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057249879
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057195993