Prime Time on state of Dublin City Center tomorrow night

FreudianSlippers

Bambi wrote: »

Is there a treatment centre on O'Connell street? Are there beds in methadone clinics? All news to me :eek:


Maybe they could move a few clinics out to raheny or sutton if you really don't want them around tourists.

Everything thing you've posted said that you don't want the issue dealt with just swept somewhere that you and the tourists wont have to see it

There is a drug treatment centre on Upper OCS, just not exactly sure where. There are also at least 3 on streets directly adjacent to OCS.

Dyr

conorhal wrote: »

That was point 1. of my previous post (and point 3).

There is an issue with the concentration of services though. If they were spread out and moved to within the comunities they served then you wouldn't have the critical mass of junkies taking over areas like the boardwalk that makes for an unplesant atmosphere or the critical mass of dealers that make for a dangerous one.

Are drug treatment services concentrated in the city centre? Can you name these services and where they are?

Which communities do you think these centres "serve"? I'm not aware of any communities of heroin addicts in dublin

Do you mean working class areas? Plenty of them smack bang in the city centre horse, so the clinics look like they're in the right place.

GinnyR

And just how is moving the methadone clinics etc into the most deprived areas such as Dolphins Barn actually going to help anyone? Unless of course the idea is to further ostracise certain parts of the community. An awful lot of NIMBYism going on here.

Dyr

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

There is a drug treatment centre on Upper OCS, just not exactly sure where. There are also at least 3 on streets directly adjacent to OCS.

You mean the ACET? It's not a drug treatment centre, its an AIDS education service last I heard. Maybe you could ask them to move closer to the community they serve by relocating to the top of georges street. Sure is'nt one lazy stereotype as good as another? :P

littlemac1980

Read the article - I don't have time (unfortunately) to read al the posts, here so apologies if I'm repeating something, or even indirectly supporting a troll... just my view here.

I came across this passage:

"People working with drug addicts say that a multi disciplinary approach is needed to tackling addiction and helping people who are crying out for help. It's not just a policing issue, its not just a health issue, it's not just an education issue.

Certainly, looking at Dublin in broad daylight over the past few days, there are people in need of help."

This is the principle factor and cause of what's wrong with Dublin City Centre, and the Country as a whole, in relation to these issues.

There are plenty of people that need help - They are the good, hard-working, upstanding members of Irish Society. Not the crack-heads and scum-bags with no regard for anybody but themselves, and no morals nor guilt to prevent them from destroying the lives of anybody who gets in their way or stands-up to them.

This is what's wrong with the Country... Education, Rehabilitation, Reintegration are great buzz-words used by charities and politicians alike to generate donations and votes.

We're way passed that as a nation. Clean up the streets for the hard working honest people. Then worry about what might be done to reduce the recurrence of the scum.

Dyr

GinnyR wrote: »

And just how is moving the methadone clinics etc into the most deprived areas such as Dolphins Barn actually going to help anyone? Unless of course the idea is to further ostracize certain parts of the community. An awful lot of NIMBYism going on here.

People see this problem in NIMBY terms and nothing else. You want to address the issue then you start treating addiction as a medical problem and not a criminal one. Provide addicts with a source of heroin that does'nt involve them putting large wads of cash into gangsters pockets while treating their addiction



The "Heroin legalized!!11!" headlines would scare too many gardai and grannies though.

FreudianSlippers

Bambi wrote: »

You mean the ACET? It's not a drug treatment centre, its an AIDS education service last I heard. Maybe you could ask them to move closer to the community they serve by relocating to the top of georges street. Sure is'nt one lazy stereotype as good as another? :P

Not really. They deal with a significant number of addicts who have aids through needle sharing.

But sure, ignore the fact that there are 3 others adjacent.

dmcg90

Last Sunday, I spent about 3 hours shopping in Henry St in the afternoon and I was appalled at the behaviour going on in it.

Clearly out of it people trying to pick pocket, peeing in the street (up beside Lifestyle Sports), full on rows in the middle of the street.

Go to London and have a look at Oxford St, Regents St, etc. At no point have I ever seen anything like that there.

Something very clearly has to be done if you compare our City Center to anywhere else in the world. It's not as simple as moving a clinic or putting a few in jail but I'm really shocked at the lack of Gardai presence in these areas and the little that is done to curb this. Put simply, if the Gardai are there, their behaviour gets better. For the sake of our tourism industry and the safety of anyone in the City Center, there needs to be an increase presence at the very least to build a foundation to make it better.

corner of hells

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Not really. They deal with a significant number of addicts who have aids through needle sharing.

But sure, ignore the fact that there are 3 others adjacent.

Are you thinking about homeless hostels , theres one in Marlborough street , theres a migrant centre close by and a hostel ,I think still on a the quays.Theres another hostel on Frederick street but I think its higher threshold.
As far as I know no hostels doubles as a drug treatment centre.

Kermit.de.frog

littlemac1980 wrote: »

Read the article - I don't have time (unfortunately) to read al the posts, here so apologies if I'm repeating something, or even indirectly supporting a troll... just my view here.

I came across this passage:

"People working with drug addicts say that a multi disciplinary approach is needed to tackling addiction and helping people who are crying out for help. It's not just a policing issue, its not just a health issue, it's not just an education issue.

Certainly, looking at Dublin in broad daylight over the past few days, there are people in need of help."

This is the principle factor and cause of what's wrong with Dublin City Centre, and the Country as a whole, in relation to these issues.

There are plenty of people that need help - They are the good, hard-working, upstanding members of Irish Society. Not the crack-heads and scum-bags with no regard for anybody but themselves, and no morals nor guilt to prevent them from destroying the lives of anybody who gets in their way or stands-up to them.

This is what's wrong with the Country... Education, Rehabilitation, Reintegration are great buzz-words used by charities and politicians alike to generate donations and votes.

We're way passed that as a nation. Clean up the streets for the hard working honest people. Then worry about what might be done to reduce the recurrence of the scum.

While waiting for the bus out this evening two junkies on Amiens Street got on completely free of charge by simply waving their little card. Same thing, different people, every day.

The workers and law abiding people like me and everyone else of course have to pay.

It's things like that do get to people. You have to wonder is it right what is going on.

It's not right.

tayto lover

Lack of Garda seems to be a problem all over the country and not just in Dublin.
There has been no garda recruitment since 2007 according to a garda i spoke to outside Croke Park recently.
The money to pay for recruitment of garda, nurses etc seems to have been diverted to pay off debts in Europe.
Shure the people of this country don't seem to matter much to the Govt.
Looking good in Europe does.

Thoie

I don't feel threatened in Dublin City centre (despite there being more than 3 attempts on my handbag/belongings over the years), but it's certainly not attractive. I generally avoid it like the plague.

In most cities somewhere like the boardwalk would be a nice place to stroll peacefully along the water's edge, without getting in the way of busier people who are trying to get from A to B. There's no peace on the boardwalk, as on the few occasions I've used it you spend your time watching your belongings, avoiding other people's arguments/fights, and trying not notice people taking drugs.

As someone else mentioned, you can't sit outside on a sunny day having a coffee and a nice catchup with friends without being regularly hassled for money/cigarettes. You can't wait for bus/tram without being asked for money or cigarettes. Most of the time when you give a polite no, they move on, but they're very unpredictable, and sometimes don't like being told no.

Had a situation where some little 5 foot nothing scumbag came up, asked for money, and when I said "Sorry, no", he got right in my face and started roaring, and raised his fist. While a little unusual, it's not completely rare. Again, I'm not easily intimidated, but he could just as easily have produced a knife or a syringe as his fist.

The whole atmosphere is just depressing, unwelcoming and unpleasant, and that's what DCC needs to try and change. Tarting up a few dilapidated buildings here and there isn't sufficient on its own.

littlemac1980

But it's not a policing problem - or an enforcement problem.

The problem is that the media, and interest groups (charities who receive funding and donations - and use them to pay their own wages) insist that the scumbags have to be rehabilitated and educated. It's non-sense, and its out of control.

No-one has the balls to deal with the problem head on and punish these people, and lock them up in a room and stop feeding them methadone and stop treating them like children and stop treating them better than the hard working honest citizens of the Country.

The prison system would be a lot cheaper to run if there were at least 6 scumbags in each room, and one toilet and no playstation, and no TV and no Gym and no Library, and no Visitors and no Drugs and then these scumbags might finally begin to understand that there are consequences for their choices and actions, and the rest of us can actually get on with living in a Country not infested with knackers, scumbags, and junkies.

SpaceTime

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I think this is exactly the problem: basically isolating the Northside as a lost cause ****hole where nobody should go.

Having eaten, btw, in Guilbaud's on multiple occasions; I think Chapter One is a better restaurant. How does this fit in with your concept of keeping everyone away from the Northside?

There's equally a big chuck of Dublin 8 that's really quite dodgy too.

The Northside bad vs Southside good dichotomy is a major problem with how people view the city. Some of its nicest and most upmarket parts are actually north of the river : Clontarf, Malahide, Griffith Avenue through Drumcondra and Glasnevin are amongst the most pleasant parts of the entire city.

Meanwhile, south of the river you've a fairly large selection of dives to pick from which I'm not going to name for fear of insulting residents but you know exactly where I mean.

Thoie

littlemac1980 wrote: »

The prison system would be a lot cheaper to run if there were at least 6 scumbags in each room, and one toilet and no playstation, and no TV and no Gym and no Library, and no Visitors and no Drugs and then these scumbags might finally begin to understand that there are consequences for their choices and actions, and the rest of us can actually get on with living in a Country not infested with knackers, scumbags, and junkies.

I'm fairly hardcore, and would go straight to putting them in front of a firing squad, but if we must be civilised and lock them up, I'd leave them with the gym and library in the hopes that they may have improved themselves somewhat while they're in there.

Highflyer13

The corner of Westmorland street onto the Quays seems to be a notorious junkie hangout. I think its a Londis shop there? They are so visible and they obviously have nothing to be fearful of.

Our city centre is tiny but seems to be overrun by vermin who pester and harass tourists and working folk going about their daily business.

Giruilla

Highflyer13 wrote: »

The corner of Westmorland street onto the Quays seems to be a notorious junkie hangout. I think its a Londis shop there? They are so visible and they obviously have nothing to be fearful of.

Our city centre is tiny but seems to be overrun by vermin who pester and harass tourists and working folk going about their daily business.

Must be for the phone boxes.

Dublin could be one of the nicest cities in Europe if the filth was taken out of the city centre. The abundance of council housing everywhere in the inner city is a disgrace.

smellmepower

littlemac1980 wrote: »

But it's not a policing problem - or an enforcement problem.

The problem is that the media, and interest groups (charities who receive funding and donations - and use them to pay their own wages) insist that the scumbags have to be rehabilitated and educated. It's non-sense, and its out of control.

No-one has the balls to deal with the problem head on and punish these people, and lock them up in a room and stop feeding them methadone and stop treating them like children and stop treating them better than the hard working honest citizens of the Country.

The prison system would be a lot cheaper to run if there were at least 6 scumbags in each room, and one toilet and no playstation, and no TV and no Gym and no Library, and no Visitors and no Drugs and then these scumbags might finally begin to understand that there are consequences for their choices and actions, and the rest of us can actually get on with living in a Country not infested with knackers, scumbags, and junkies.

Ridiculous stuff. We have been punishing addicts for decades. Treating a combined medical, mental health and social problem as a crime and it has gotten us nowhere. Your moronic suggestions would just make things worse.

I agree with the ending of open ended methadone prescribing, but that can only be done when there are fit for purpose detox facilities available. The reason facilities like this are never delivered is because of people like yourself, (whom politicians have to placate) who just want the problem to go away not solved, and have no clue of the actual complexities of the situation.

drumswan

littlemac1980 wrote: »

But it's not a policing problem - or an enforcement problem.

Crime is not a policing problem, I see.

Overflow

TiltedBrain wrote: »

How are other cities in the world managing to keep the junkies away?

What are these other cities you speak of ?

Here in Norway, where there is one of lowest crime rates, low poverty and unemployment rates, you still find loads of junkies and homeless people in every city.

littlemac1980

smellmepower wrote: »

The reason facilities like this are never delivered is because of people like yourself, (whom politicians have to placate) who just want the problem to go away not solved, and have no clue of the actual complexities of the situation.

Typical non-sense.

Forget the complexities - it's spin, deal with the problem. Punish the criminals and consider so-called social complexities when the streets are clear of the scum and good people can once again enjoy the cities.

littlemac1980

smellmepower wrote: »

Ridiculous stuff. We have been punishing addicts for decades. Treating a combined medical, mental health and social problem as a crime and it has gotten us nowhere. Your moronic suggestions would just make things worse.

You suggest I'm a moron. Yet you fail to realise that this country currently treats every crime as a combined medical, mental health and social problem. It's basic stuff. :rolleyes: I'm suggesting we start treating criminals as crimimals and not potential candidates for social rehabilitation. The nicey nicey approach, which has been employed for the last 40 odd years isn't working. The Country is infested with scum as a result of what you're advocating which in fact has been the approach for so long. :rolleyes:

littlemac1980

drumswan wrote: »

Crime is not a policing problem, I see.

Boom! :rolleyes:

GinnyR

Giruilla wrote: »

Must be for the phone boxes.

Dublin could be one of the nicest cities in Europe if the filth was taken out of the city centre. The abundance of council housing everywhere in the inner city is a disgrace.

What utter b*llocks. Sure just move the problem out of sight & create ghetto areas like the outskirts of Paris. The issues around social deprivation & drugs etc needs a holistic approach.

hfallada

Highflyer13 wrote: »

The corner of Westmorland street onto the Quays seems to be a notorious junkie hangout. I think its a Londis shop there? They are so visible and they obviously have nothing to be fearful of.

Our city centre is tiny but seems to be overrun by vermin who pester and harass tourists and working folk going about their daily business.

The phone boxes were removed on from that on corner and the garda have been forcing people to move on. If you have been in the city for the last 4 months you would have seen that

desertcircus

littlemac1980 wrote: »

You suggest I'm a moron. Yet you fail to realise that this country currently treats every crime as a combined medical, mental health and social problem. It's basic stuff. :rolleyes: I'm suggesting we start treating criminals as crimimals and not potential candidates for social rehabilitation. The nicey nicey approach, which has been employed for the last 40 odd years isn't working. The Country is infested with scum as a result of what you're advocating which in fact has been the approach for so long. :rolleyes:

Oh, for crying out loud.

I'm sick of the vicious, brainless hatred that comes steaming off any public forum whenever the subject of heroin addicts and the unemployed comes up in Ireland. "Scum", "vermin", "infested": every word a nail in the coffin of the poster's sense of empathy. Never any discussion of evidence, or support for their brutalist policies, just a savagely ignorant refusal to accept that addicts may need to be treated with something other than a truncheon. Is there any evidence whatsoever that zero-tolerance policing and inhumane prison conditions are better at rehabilitation, or better at reducing crime, or better at literally any of the most basic purposes of a justice system? I don't know, because in all the myriad threads littered with sociopaths screaming about scum, I've never once seen one of them provide any - just a stream of invective that reveals how far their own humanity has receded as they deny the humanity of the addicts they despise. "Infested with scum" indeed. Let's just lock the vermin up even though we have absolutely no evidence that it'll do a damn thing.

Dublin city isn't perfect. One thing I'm immensely proud of, though, is the fact that Dublin doesn't hide its warts. It's telling that London is used as a comparison: a city with social problems so deep and severe that whole swathes of it rioted for days on end just a couple of years ago, a city so devoid of soul that people born and raised there have been priced out by oligarchs and hedge fund traders. Should we be more like the centre of Turin, where everything is flawless and perfectly clean, and the ethnic minorities are more or less completely invisible unless you head outside the centre (in four days, I saw six nonwhite faces who weren't tourists in the centre of Turin)? Is the infamy of Las Ramblas in Barcelona or the Sacre Coeur in Paris really any better than the dodgy characters who float around Dublin's core?

Every city has flaws and problems; I'm proud that Dublin hasn't hidden its flaws.

Ole Rodrigo

To all those who advocate a ' tough ' solution to the problem - have you considered what type of society we would be, if we tolerated treating people that way? I wouldn't want to live here.

moxin

Today around 4pm I was walking on that "alleyway" riddled with outdoor seating for r'nts between the quays and Jervis st, Italian quarter i think? I observed a gentleman in a dirty tracksuit who looked quite rough with slurred voice asking diners for something. He didn't seem the violent type, just asking diners politely. As I passed him, I overheard him asking for the cake on the plate belonging to a diner! Couldn't believe me ears and as I looked behind me as I passed by, the diner gave him the cake and he actually ate it. Perhaps just hungry? No problem with that. A - he wasn't threatening and B - he probably was hungry.

Contrast this with..
I also passed the corner of Westmorland street onto the Quays today around 2pm, its a definite hangabout for dodgy looking folk. One youngish fella in a tracksuit with dyed blond hair just stood there in the middle of the footpath staring with an angry face at people directly as they passed. Intimidating, immediately I went into "don't flook with me" mode in case he did something to me. What I object to is being forced in that mode in my own city from people who choose to get high on whatever and choose to intimidate the rest of us. Oh and on my crosstown trek, not a single foot Garda was in sight.

carlmango11

desertcircus wrote: »

Every city has flaws and problems; I'm proud that Dublin hasn't hidden its flaws.

:rolleyes:

The problem:

• Our current approach to treatment doesn't work.
• The centre of our capital city is overrun with addicts.

We should:

• Try a new approach.
• Move treatment centres outside the city centre.

The addicts won't die if all of a sudden their treatment centre moves a kilometre away.

And for what it's worth, I personally don't buy the whole "they just need better facilities" stuff. Getting off of drugs is just too difficult. Sure, some will manage to break free but many, many won't.

desertcircus

carlmango11 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

The problem:

• Our current approach to treatment doesn't work.
• The centre of our capital city is overrun with addicts.

We should:

• Try a new approach.
• Move treatment centres outside the city centre.

The addicts won't die if all of a sudden their treatment centre moves a kilometre away.

And for what it's worth, I personally don't buy the whole "they just need better facilities" stuff. Getting off of drugs is just too difficult. Sure, some will manage to break free but many, many won't.

Two claims: one, that our current approach isn't working, and two, that the city centre is overrun with addicts. I'd class the second of those as wild hyperbole, and I don't see any actual evidence for the first. Are numbers of addicts up or down? Are they all on the same treatment system?

Why do people keep advocating policies while making precisely zero effort to analyse whether they're needed or whether they'll work?