Prime Time on state of Dublin City Center tomorrow night

Giruilla

reprazant wrote: »

I am ignoring your reasoning as to the rising of rents in Dublin as it is so hilarious wrong, I am not sure where to start. Obviously a large social housing element in D4 where the rents are rising as well.

You are agreeing with my point.

Dyr

littlemac1980 wrote: »

I'm with Peter - we don't want to, nor do we have to accept the situation.

So I'll ask again horse, who's the "we" here? Are you royalty?

alastair

Giruilla wrote: »

You are agreeing with my point.

I think irony is a bit lost on you.

Peter Anthony

drumswan wrote: »

Conspiracy theories forum is that way -->

Do you live in the city?

I used to a few months back but the City Centre is a 3rd World place with Monaco prices. And its gradually getting worse, I thought it was bad in 2013 but 2014 takes the biscuit.

Would anyone shouting down the critics feel safe letting their Mother or younger sister walk down Talbot St, O Connell St, Abbey St, Dame St etc alone?? It's actually as bad in daytime but when darkness falls its a different danger around.

If you would feel safe doing so, then more power to you, 90% of people would be wary and that isnt good enough for the main thoroughfares of the capital city.

Dyr

Peter Anthony wrote: »

Would anyone shouting down the critics feel safe letting their Mother or younger sister walk down Talbot St, O Connell St, Abbey St, Dame St etc alone?? It's actually as bad in daytime but when darkness falls its a different danger around.

If you would feel safe doing so, than power to you, 90% of people would be wary and that isnt good enough for the main thoroughfares of the capital city.

90% you say? Did you do that survey?

It's weird but I keep seeing lots of women walking down these streets, night and day. Kinda blows the arse out of the statistic horse.

Maybe I don't actually live in the alternate dublin some people do.

alastair

Peter Anthony wrote: »

In darkness? Really.

They have streetlights now.

Peter Anthony wrote: »

Fair play if so, sadly many people know from experience it is not safe for vulnerable people.

Except that they are, the odd exception allowed for.

GinnyR

Peter Anthony wrote: »

I used to a few months back but the City Centre is a 3rd World place with Monaco prices. And its gradually getting worse, I thought it was bad in 2013 but 2014 takes the biscuit.

Would anyone shouting down the critics feel safe letting their Mother or younger sister walk down Talbot St, O Connell St, Abbey St, Dame St etc alone?? It's actually as bad in daytime but when darkness falls its a different danger around.

If you would feel safe doing so, then more power to you, 90% of people would be wary and that isnt good enough for the main thoroughfares of the capital city.

I think most people (women especially) feel an increased risk walking anywhere in the dark/night time. However (personally speaking) I have walked through various parts of Dublins inner city at night & not felt overly afraid. As with all towns & cities you just need to be a little street wise & keep your wits about you.

titchy

When you have people with 50 or 60 previous convictions walking free there is clearly something seriously wrong.
If I were a Guard I think I'de feel like I was pissing against the wind bringing the same people in front of a judge 60 times (probably for committing very similar crimes)! Thats the road to mind numbing, ground hog day, depression I'de imagine:(

tricky D

Mod note: if you have a problem with moderation feel free to send a PM but keep it off thread. Likewise if you have a problem with a post, use the report post function.

As for the rights and wrongs of each side of the argument, no side has any monopoly on those as there are various valid personal opinions and experiences on both sides. Please keep that in mind when discussing (and disagreeing) the topic and keep it civil. Tx.

FreudianSlippers

mikekerry wrote: »

joe costello - "we are reviewing the situation"!
if only joe's situation could be reviewed, a man who does not have a single clue to his name

How does that man dress himself in the morning? He can barely string a sentence together and looks/speaks like he just took a handful of horse tranquillisers. Seriously, the intellect of our elected representatives is a joke.

no money honey

The last time I was on Abbey street with 2 minutes of walking the street, feral children raided the Super Valu while down the street others were launching rocks across the street at passers by. Around rush hour time so many workers were going home, a man in a suit up the street from me was hit in the face with a rock and knocked down. A few people helped him he looked like he needed hospital treatment and was lucky not to be blinded. He hurried off down a by street.

All the while beside the youngsters throwing rocks, were a large group which appeared to be the parents in a pub across the street pissed drunk looking on laughing and congratulating the kids. This is what your dealing with everyday.

I have rarely been back their since only on and off the Luas. An absolute kip of a street if there was ever one.

fleet_admiral

Where is the supervalu on Abbey street? Do you mean Talbot street?

Idbatterim

have read the first page or two, Dublin city economically and from a tourism perspective, in addition to what we spend there generates tens of billions annually, what is the problem with spending a few million more on policing? We can afford to and do waste billions here every year...

Giruilla

alastair wrote: »

I think irony is a bit lost on you.

You don't understand irony or why I said he was agreeing with me.

alastair

Giruilla wrote: »

You don't understand irony or why I said he was agreeing with me.

Spell it out then, because by my reading, you're missing the point entirely.

no money honey

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Where is the supervalu on Abbey street? Do you mean Talbot street?

It's possibly a Londis, I tried looking on google maps there but strangely abbey street doesnt show up fully. Its when walking down from O Connell St, one of the main shops on the left hand side.

carlmango11

Jumboman wrote: »

Anybody caught with illegal drugs should be locked up for a couple of years minimum. That would sort out the problem fairly quickly.

Well that's just a moronic suggestion.

no money honey

If everyone on illegal drugs was locked up for a few years we'd need to build 20 prisons.

This banana republic doesn't even know how to house normal citizens nevermind thousands of additional criminals.

LXFlyer

reprazant wrote: »

When you said 'Now nobody wants to live in the inner city', it implies that at some stage everyone wanted to live there. Which has never happened. If anything, there is far more people living in the inner city now not in social housing then even before.

I am ignoring your reasoning as to the rising of rents in Dublin as it is so hilarious wrong, I am not sure where to start. Obviously a large social housing element in D4 where the rents are rising as well.

There already is quite a bit of social housing in D4 - in Donnybrook (believe it or not), Ringsend and Irishtown.

reprazant

lxflyer wrote: »

There already is quite a bit of social housing in D4 - in Donnybrook (believe it or not), Ringsend and Irishtown.

There is Ringsend, a block of flats in Irishtown and the Beech Hill estate by the bus station in Donnybrook. Only a tiny fraction of D4 and nothing to do with the rising of the rents in D4 as, other than Irishtown, most people renting around there don't want to live in Ringsend or Beech Hill.

littlemac1980

Interestingly, though I suppose unsurprisingly, a short search here shows that this debate/discussion is largely (albeit more contemporary) repetition of earlier discussions on this forum.

For example here's 3 such threads from 2012:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76787840#post76787840

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056628031

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056549141

I'm sure there are probably many many more such similar topics. Has anything changed?

woysworld

I was in Capel Street this afternoon about 4.30. I saw a guy hunched down in the entrance of The Spar shop shooting up....

Totally Tropical

I've been to cities all over the world Liverpool Manchester Melbourne and New York and the only place i was ever attacked on the street in was Dublin.I think Dublin is a very poorly policed city and it's full of thugs who have free reign to do as they want.Whether people agree or disagree i don't care but large parts of Dublin city centre are not pleasant or desirable places to spend time in

GinnyR

Totally Tropical wrote: »

I've been to cities all over the world Liverpool Manchester Melbourne and New York and the only place i was ever attacked on the street in was Dublin.I think Dublin is a very poorly policed city and it's full of thugs who have free reign to do as they want.Whether people agree or disagree i don't care but large parts of Dublin city centre are not pleasant or desirable places to spend time in

Coincidence maybe? I've been hassled in Barcelona (had my bag snatched) & saw some God awful sights of junkies in Birmingham, wolverhanpton & Liverpool. By comparison dublin has always been relatively hassle free.

Totally Tropical

GinnyR wrote: »

Coincidence maybe? I've been hassled in Barcelona (had my bag snatched) & saw some God awful sights of junkies in Birmingham, wolverhanpton & Liverpool. By comparison dublin has always been relatively hassle free.

Well i just offered my opinion based on my own experiences take it or leave it.Liverpool city centre for example is not taken over by thugs and drug addicts to the extent that Dublin city centre is.It's much better policed as well.

FreudianSlippers

GinnyR wrote: »

Coincidence maybe? I've been hassled in Barcelona (had my bag snatched) & saw some God awful sights of junkies in Birmingham, wolverhanpton & Liverpool. By comparison dublin has always been relatively hassle free.

Maybe coincidence the opposite direction?

Esel

woysworld wrote: »

I was in Capel Street this afternoon about 4.30. I saw a guy hunched down in the entrance of The Spar shop shooting up....

and... what?

You saw a small slice of life in the raw, on the street. Behind closed doors is where shit really happens. If it looks bad in the open, imagine how bad it is back there - behind that closed door.

There are very many closed doors, and they are everywhere - not just in the city, and not just where you might think. That closed door might be next door, or just up the road.

Tonight, I was asked for spare change outside a shop I stopped at. The guy stood in the rain. I said no, and walked on in. When I came back out, he said 'See you.. ' or something like that. I replied 'See you, pal... ' (or something like that). Now, he didn't threaten me; it was probably his regular station. If it works for him, good luck to him. I just hope that no one else was suffering behind his home door.

tl/dr Give money to Simon, or the SVdeP etc. Giving to a 'beggar' on the street might make you feel happy/good, but realise that you are enabling, not helping.

mfceiling

Took the kids in to temple bar to Milano's last thursday night for a treat.

Walking down there was depressing - beggars everywhere, fairly aggressive too. Got down to Milano's and found it was closed for renovations. No problem we'll go somewhere else. Nice little band busking and playing some good music. Youngest one stops to look at them. Literallty seconds later a gurrier threw a beer bottle at them and missed my youngest by inches - hit the drummer on the shoulder. The drummer shouts "What the hell man"....the reply "ah f*ck off, ye're nothing but a bunch of w*nkers"...walks off laughing to himself.

I work in town a lot on shop and office fit outs....there are a huge amount of junkies, homeless and beggars who roam about intimidating ordinary people going about their business. We've had tools stolen by junkies, a gurrier smashed a load of glass panels outside a job one morning, watched junkies shoot up outside the job then throw the needles on the ground like sweet wrappers.

Can't blame the garda - they are under resourced and when they do arrest these idiots, they are back on the street the next day (well done to the judges who listen to the sob stories).

I wonder what image the tourists that visit, paint when they get home?

alastair

mfceiling wrote: »

I wonder what image the tourists that visit, paint when they get home?

As a snapshot of what tourists actually think about Temple Bar, Tripadvisor is a good indicator:

http://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attraction_Review-g186605-d188821-Reviews-Temple_Bar-Dublin_County_Dublin.html

Strangely, despite awareness of the price-gouging, and tourist-trappery of the place, it's remarkably well received (no accounting for tastes), with little comment on anti-social activity.

Jumboman

carlmango11 wrote: »

Well that's just a moronic suggestion.

How is it ? china does it and they dont have a drug problem anything like we have.

If you tolerate drug dealing the problem is only going to get bigger and bigger.

alastair

Jumboman wrote: »

How is it ? china does it and they dont have a drug problem anything like we have.

If you tolerate drug dealing the problem is only going to get bigger and bigger.

Ah the dictatorship solution. Meth use is rocketing in China btw.

Jumboman

alastair wrote: »

Ah the dictatorship solution. Meth use is rocketing in China btw.

No the liberal justice system needs to be over overhauled.

People with 50 plus convictions should not be walking the streets.

GinnyR

I'd agree the justice system needs improvement & tightening up. People cannot continually just pass through the system. But, help needs to be given to those in need to help break the cycle & drug/alcohol addiction needs to be seen as the medical issue it is.

alastair

Jumboman wrote: »

People with 50 plus convictions should not be walking the streets.

Agreed. But that's rather far from this:

Anybody caught with illegal drugs should be locked up for a couple of years minimum

...which, like the poster said, is a moronic suggestion.

dmcg90

Passers-by and tourists were left shocked yesterday evening as a man was assaulted in broad daylight on Dublin’s Henry Street.
The assault, which took place outside on the popular shopping street, was captured on video by 4FM radio presenter, Mike Hogan who tweeted about the incident yesterday evening.

Mike took the footage from the nearby H&M store and said that there were tourists, shoppers and children around the attack which lasted for under a minute.
According to The Irish Independent, Mike said: “I’ve come to expect things like this in Dublin city centre..it’s become pretty dangerous, especially on the north side.”
Mike was upstairs in H&M when the fight broke out and the man was attacked. Passers-by intervened to try and break up the attack.
Warning – this video contains footage that some viewers may find offensive.

http://www.her.ie/news/shocking-scenes-as-man-assaulted-in-broad-daylight-on-dublins-henry-street/

littlemac1980

dmcg90 wrote: »

http://www.her.ie/news/shocking-scenes-as-man-assaulted-in-broad-daylight-on-dublins-henry-street/

Terrible incident of violence in broad daylight on a busy street in our Capital city but tragically all too typical these days.

That guy is really ruining the image of all the fine upstanding citizens who meander around the towns and choose to wear their tracksuit pants tucked into their socks.

January

Already posted in another thread which I've closed and nobody had anything constructive to say there either. Move along.

Kermit.de.frog

This is happening every day in the city center. The same salt of the earth Dubliners on this thread will remain, just like our wonderful mayor, with their heads in the sand. It's all a mirage and Dublin is perfectly fine up there with London, Paris and New York.

This is what you get with stupid planning and a broken justice system.

littlemac1980

I sure hope the Gardai can identify the assailant and he is arrested soon. I imagine there are plenty CCTV cameras in that area, with all the shops around. It might not be possible to get a clear view of his face from that video, but there are bound to be other angles from shop cameras.

Kermit.de.frog

The fact you even have to ask about whether the gardai can identify a little gouger attacking someone for almost 60 seconds on one of the main shopping streets tells you all you need to know about policing in Dublin.

alastair

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The fact you even have to ask about whether the gardai can identify a little gouger attacking someone for almost 60 seconds on one of the main shopping streets tells you all you need to know about policing in Dublin.

The 'little gouger' was obviously fighting with someone he knows. Someone who gets up and walks away. The cops aren't likely to make this a priority after the fact, now, are they?

The biggest crime would be that track suit. Biggest danger to passers-by was to their retinas.

reprazant

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The fact you even have to ask about whether the gardai can identify a little gouger attacking someone for almost 60 seconds on one of the main shopping streets tells you all you need to know about policing in Dublin.

Henry St is a big street. Do you want guards every 20 meters along it? Do you want that on every major street? Do you think that is even vaguely realistic?

Also, about 30 seconds after he asked someone to call the guards, it was over. Just how quickly do you think guards can possibly respond to a call?

Kermit.de.frog

There should be cameras every 20 meters like in properly policed cities in Europe.

Jumboman

reprazant wrote: »

. Do you want guards every 20 meters along it? Do you want that on every major street? Do you think that is even vaguely realistic?

Well when the queen of england came to Ireland a garda was never more than a few feet away in the city centre.

So it is not impossible to have atleast 2 gardas on every major street in Dublin day and night. That is not too much to ask.

Esel

Jumboman wrote: »

Well when the queen of england came to Ireland a garda was never more than a few feet away in the city centre.

So it is not impossible to have atleast 2 gardas on every major street in Dublin day and night. That is not too much to ask.

FFS...

SpaceTime

There is a noticible lack of visible policing in all Irish cities compared to almost anywhere else I've ever been.

Dublin basically needs three things

1. More high impact policing that's visible.
2. Deal with the drugs issues much more effectively. They've been out of control since thr 1980s.
3. Incentivise more shops to come into O'Connell Street and find out why they're not there... It's basically been turned into a giant bus stop with crumby shops other than easons and Cleary's which are relics of another era really. That has to be reversed.

Henry Street needs to be extended into O'Connell St and not seen as a separate and distinct area.

Dublin suffers from being quite mentally divided though too.

You've shipping and activity around Grafton Street then you've a different shopping district around Henry St and nobody's made an attempt to link them.

Then Temple Bar kind of grew up as yet another distinct thing that's kind of unconnected with thr adjacent areas and the IFSC and Smithfield are cut off entirely by long runs of totally shopless and kind of scary quays that have huge volumes of traffic on them.

The Henry St - Grafton St connection needs to be made by rejuvenation of O'Connell St and the quays need their shop fronts alive again to ensure the docklands are reintegrated into the city.

I find the whole way Dublin developed in the 1970s to now is like the disjointed cul de sacs we built in the suburbs. Nobody thought about the city as a city instead they just concentrated on whatever narrow project they were focused on.

Cork for example actually meshes together far better because the city centre is constrained by geography and possibly because it didn't die as a city centre like Dublin did.

You're looking really at a legacy of American style suburbanisation and a city that basically died in the late 20th century and that is only being rediscovered now.

Dubliners need to start seeing Dublin City Centre as an interconnected big town really and not as umpteen little subdivided areas. It's not really big enough to have city boroughs in the city centre. The entire area that's within walking distance from O'Connell Bridge needs to be treated as one unit. That's not how Dubliners think though and they've a notion that it's all divided up by Northside vs Southside and postal district numbers.

One very positive thing would have been to give the whole city centre the Dublin 1 code and make the next ring around that Dublin 2.

FreudianSlippers

My view has, for a good while now, been that we need a root and branch reform of our policing model. We should have a federal police similar to the Bundespolizei but with some functions of FBI (i.e. internal investigations of the Gardaí) - these police should be armed and the system of distribution across the country should remain.

The Gardaí should be more like the Landespolizei; effectively each county has its own police force that deals with local issues, but is standardised nationally.

The Garda Reserve should be transformed into a volunteer municipal police force with statutory powers and limited police-type functions.

SpaceTime

If you create urban wastelands without shops and actuvity which is what Dublin City Council and its predecessor "the Corpo" did over the decades, they'll attract crime and antisocial behaviour.

Areas of Dublin City Centre were allowed to decay while others were colonised by 9-to-5 offices without any notion of mixed development.

I mean there are areas of offices in Georgian Dublin where you'd literally struggle to get a sandwich due to lack of mixed development plans.

Irish cities all had that pattern of hollowing out.

Make Dublin City centre at attractive place to live and reduce the rates on businesses in areas that are devoid of retail and it will change rapidly.

I mean there's no reason why you couldn't offer a huge rate reduction incentive for larger format retail on O'Connell St or incentivise non-fast food restaurant development etc

The quays should all have a massive rate drop for shops too. Dublin could potentially be much more or a thriving retail hub than it is.

Corralling all the big retail into two streets just causes rents to go up and variety to go down as the quirkier stuff can't afford to compete with chains with access to huge financing.

I remember having to explain to a Spanish person that in Ireland the city centre isn't actually always the most desirable location to live. In Spain the most exclusive areas are usually slap bang in the centre of most towns and cities. An apartment on the main square usually is very sought after. Where as if you told someone in Ireland you were moving to O'Connell St they'd think you were bonkers. We seem to aspire to the suburban mansion ideal.

Fundamentally, I don't think many Irish people actually understand cities or what they can be and that's why Dublin in particular has so many issues.

We haven't really created fantastic urban spaces since the Georgian and Victorian eras

IrishAlice

SpaceTime wrote: »

In Spain the most exclusive areas are usually slap bang in the centre of most towns and cities.

Any of the big cities I've been in across Europe and Canada are like this.

Whenever I speak to people and tell them I don't like Dublin they always assume that it's because I don't like big cities but that's not the case at all.

I lived in Dublin about 8 years ago and used to walk down O'Connell St to catch a bus late at night on my own and never gave it a second thought. I never felt intimidated.

Now I'd be hard set to walk down it at 6 in the evening and the last time I did I saw a bunch of about 12 travellers beating the heads off each other and a female guard barely more than 5'2 running towards them to try intervene with no sign of any other guards around.

I see the change in the city and if anything it's getting worse each time I'm in there.

alastair

IrishAlice wrote: »

Any of the big cities I've been in across Europe and Canada are like this.

Whenever I speak to people and tell them I don't like Dublin they always assume that it's because I don't like big cities but that's not the case at all.

I lived in Dublin about 8 years ago and used to walk down O'Connell St to catch a bus late at night on my own and never gave it a second thought. I never felt intimidated.

Now I'd be hard set to walk down it at 6 in the evening and the last time I did I saw a bunch of about 12 travellers beating the heads off each other and a female guard barely more than 5'2 running towards them to try intervene with no sign of any other guards around.

I see the change in the city and if anything it's getting worse each time I'm in there.

I was living in the inner city 8 years ago, and 15 years ago, and still am. O'Connell street is no different than it's ever been over those years.