Prime Time on state of Dublin City Center tomorrow night

alastair

Jumboman wrote: »

How is it ? china does it and they dont have a drug problem anything like we have.

If you tolerate drug dealing the problem is only going to get bigger and bigger.

Ah the dictatorship solution. Meth use is rocketing in China btw.

Jumboman

alastair wrote: »

Ah the dictatorship solution. Meth use is rocketing in China btw.

No the liberal justice system needs to be over overhauled.

People with 50 plus convictions should not be walking the streets.

GinnyR

I'd agree the justice system needs improvement & tightening up. People cannot continually just pass through the system. But, help needs to be given to those in need to help break the cycle & drug/alcohol addiction needs to be seen as the medical issue it is.

alastair

Jumboman wrote: »

People with 50 plus convictions should not be walking the streets.

Agreed. But that's rather far from this:

Anybody caught with illegal drugs should be locked up for a couple of years minimum

...which, like the poster said, is a moronic suggestion.

dmcg90

Passers-by and tourists were left shocked yesterday evening as a man was assaulted in broad daylight on Dublin’s Henry Street.
The assault, which took place outside on the popular shopping street, was captured on video by 4FM radio presenter, Mike Hogan who tweeted about the incident yesterday evening.

Mike took the footage from the nearby H&M store and said that there were tourists, shoppers and children around the attack which lasted for under a minute.
According to The Irish Independent, Mike said: “I’ve come to expect things like this in Dublin city centre..it’s become pretty dangerous, especially on the north side.”
Mike was upstairs in H&M when the fight broke out and the man was attacked. Passers-by intervened to try and break up the attack.
Warning – this video contains footage that some viewers may find offensive.

http://www.her.ie/news/shocking-scenes-as-man-assaulted-in-broad-daylight-on-dublins-henry-street/

littlemac1980

dmcg90 wrote: »

http://www.her.ie/news/shocking-scenes-as-man-assaulted-in-broad-daylight-on-dublins-henry-street/

Terrible incident of violence in broad daylight on a busy street in our Capital city but tragically all too typical these days.

That guy is really ruining the image of all the fine upstanding citizens who meander around the towns and choose to wear their tracksuit pants tucked into their socks.

January

Already posted in another thread which I've closed and nobody had anything constructive to say there either. Move along.

Kermit.de.frog

This is happening every day in the city center. The same salt of the earth Dubliners on this thread will remain, just like our wonderful mayor, with their heads in the sand. It's all a mirage and Dublin is perfectly fine up there with London, Paris and New York.

This is what you get with stupid planning and a broken justice system.

littlemac1980

I sure hope the Gardai can identify the assailant and he is arrested soon. I imagine there are plenty CCTV cameras in that area, with all the shops around. It might not be possible to get a clear view of his face from that video, but there are bound to be other angles from shop cameras.

Kermit.de.frog

The fact you even have to ask about whether the gardai can identify a little gouger attacking someone for almost 60 seconds on one of the main shopping streets tells you all you need to know about policing in Dublin.

alastair

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The fact you even have to ask about whether the gardai can identify a little gouger attacking someone for almost 60 seconds on one of the main shopping streets tells you all you need to know about policing in Dublin.

The 'little gouger' was obviously fighting with someone he knows. Someone who gets up and walks away. The cops aren't likely to make this a priority after the fact, now, are they?

The biggest crime would be that track suit. Biggest danger to passers-by was to their retinas.

reprazant

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The fact you even have to ask about whether the gardai can identify a little gouger attacking someone for almost 60 seconds on one of the main shopping streets tells you all you need to know about policing in Dublin.

Henry St is a big street. Do you want guards every 20 meters along it? Do you want that on every major street? Do you think that is even vaguely realistic?

Also, about 30 seconds after he asked someone to call the guards, it was over. Just how quickly do you think guards can possibly respond to a call?

Kermit.de.frog

There should be cameras every 20 meters like in properly policed cities in Europe.

Jumboman

reprazant wrote: »

. Do you want guards every 20 meters along it? Do you want that on every major street? Do you think that is even vaguely realistic?

Well when the queen of england came to Ireland a garda was never more than a few feet away in the city centre.

So it is not impossible to have atleast 2 gardas on every major street in Dublin day and night. That is not too much to ask.

Esel

Jumboman wrote: »

Well when the queen of england came to Ireland a garda was never more than a few feet away in the city centre.

So it is not impossible to have atleast 2 gardas on every major street in Dublin day and night. That is not too much to ask.

FFS...

SpaceTime

There is a noticible lack of visible policing in all Irish cities compared to almost anywhere else I've ever been.

Dublin basically needs three things

1. More high impact policing that's visible.
2. Deal with the drugs issues much more effectively. They've been out of control since thr 1980s.
3. Incentivise more shops to come into O'Connell Street and find out why they're not there... It's basically been turned into a giant bus stop with crumby shops other than easons and Cleary's which are relics of another era really. That has to be reversed.

Henry Street needs to be extended into O'Connell St and not seen as a separate and distinct area.

Dublin suffers from being quite mentally divided though too.

You've shipping and activity around Grafton Street then you've a different shopping district around Henry St and nobody's made an attempt to link them.

Then Temple Bar kind of grew up as yet another distinct thing that's kind of unconnected with thr adjacent areas and the IFSC and Smithfield are cut off entirely by long runs of totally shopless and kind of scary quays that have huge volumes of traffic on them.

The Henry St - Grafton St connection needs to be made by rejuvenation of O'Connell St and the quays need their shop fronts alive again to ensure the docklands are reintegrated into the city.

I find the whole way Dublin developed in the 1970s to now is like the disjointed cul de sacs we built in the suburbs. Nobody thought about the city as a city instead they just concentrated on whatever narrow project they were focused on.

Cork for example actually meshes together far better because the city centre is constrained by geography and possibly because it didn't die as a city centre like Dublin did.

You're looking really at a legacy of American style suburbanisation and a city that basically died in the late 20th century and that is only being rediscovered now.

Dubliners need to start seeing Dublin City Centre as an interconnected big town really and not as umpteen little subdivided areas. It's not really big enough to have city boroughs in the city centre. The entire area that's within walking distance from O'Connell Bridge needs to be treated as one unit. That's not how Dubliners think though and they've a notion that it's all divided up by Northside vs Southside and postal district numbers.

One very positive thing would have been to give the whole city centre the Dublin 1 code and make the next ring around that Dublin 2.

FreudianSlippers

My view has, for a good while now, been that we need a root and branch reform of our policing model. We should have a federal police similar to the Bundespolizei but with some functions of FBI (i.e. internal investigations of the Gardaí) - these police should be armed and the system of distribution across the country should remain.

The Gardaí should be more like the Landespolizei; effectively each county has its own police force that deals with local issues, but is standardised nationally.

The Garda Reserve should be transformed into a volunteer municipal police force with statutory powers and limited police-type functions.

SpaceTime

If you create urban wastelands without shops and actuvity which is what Dublin City Council and its predecessor "the Corpo" did over the decades, they'll attract crime and antisocial behaviour.

Areas of Dublin City Centre were allowed to decay while others were colonised by 9-to-5 offices without any notion of mixed development.

I mean there are areas of offices in Georgian Dublin where you'd literally struggle to get a sandwich due to lack of mixed development plans.

Irish cities all had that pattern of hollowing out.

Make Dublin City centre at attractive place to live and reduce the rates on businesses in areas that are devoid of retail and it will change rapidly.

I mean there's no reason why you couldn't offer a huge rate reduction incentive for larger format retail on O'Connell St or incentivise non-fast food restaurant development etc

The quays should all have a massive rate drop for shops too. Dublin could potentially be much more or a thriving retail hub than it is.

Corralling all the big retail into two streets just causes rents to go up and variety to go down as the quirkier stuff can't afford to compete with chains with access to huge financing.

I remember having to explain to a Spanish person that in Ireland the city centre isn't actually always the most desirable location to live. In Spain the most exclusive areas are usually slap bang in the centre of most towns and cities. An apartment on the main square usually is very sought after. Where as if you told someone in Ireland you were moving to O'Connell St they'd think you were bonkers. We seem to aspire to the suburban mansion ideal.

Fundamentally, I don't think many Irish people actually understand cities or what they can be and that's why Dublin in particular has so many issues.

We haven't really created fantastic urban spaces since the Georgian and Victorian eras

IrishAlice

SpaceTime wrote: »

In Spain the most exclusive areas are usually slap bang in the centre of most towns and cities.

Any of the big cities I've been in across Europe and Canada are like this.

Whenever I speak to people and tell them I don't like Dublin they always assume that it's because I don't like big cities but that's not the case at all.

I lived in Dublin about 8 years ago and used to walk down O'Connell St to catch a bus late at night on my own and never gave it a second thought. I never felt intimidated.

Now I'd be hard set to walk down it at 6 in the evening and the last time I did I saw a bunch of about 12 travellers beating the heads off each other and a female guard barely more than 5'2 running towards them to try intervene with no sign of any other guards around.

I see the change in the city and if anything it's getting worse each time I'm in there.

alastair

IrishAlice wrote: »

Any of the big cities I've been in across Europe and Canada are like this.

Whenever I speak to people and tell them I don't like Dublin they always assume that it's because I don't like big cities but that's not the case at all.

I lived in Dublin about 8 years ago and used to walk down O'Connell St to catch a bus late at night on my own and never gave it a second thought. I never felt intimidated.

Now I'd be hard set to walk down it at 6 in the evening and the last time I did I saw a bunch of about 12 travellers beating the heads off each other and a female guard barely more than 5'2 running towards them to try intervene with no sign of any other guards around.

I see the change in the city and if anything it's getting worse each time I'm in there.

I was living in the inner city 8 years ago, and 15 years ago, and still am. O'Connell street is no different than it's ever been over those years.

IrishAlice

alastair wrote: »

I was living in the inner city 8 years ago, and 15 years ago, and still am. O'Connell street is no different than it's ever been over those years.

From what I've seen it's getting progressively worse. Maybe you just don't notice because it's been a gradual change and you've lived there all along.

Kiltennel

Jumboman wrote: »

Well when the queen of england came to Ireland a garda was never more than a few feet away in the city centre.

So it is not impossible to have atleast 2 gardas on every major street in Dublin day and night. That is not too much to ask.

You do realise the Garda operation for the Queen cost €60 million in overtime? Not impossible, but extremely costly. I think a much more efficient solution would be to have Garda cars parked in known "hotspots" where they can quickly reach surrounding areas while having the surrounding areas heavily watched by CCTV. If a crime is spotted in one area and the criminal can be effectively tracked with CCTV, this would reduce the number of Gardai required on the actual streets as they can quickly respond to the crime by car while there'll be indisputable evidence available to help achieve a conviction in court.

ProudDUB

There is no point in having more Guards on the beat, if they have zero powers of arrest or detention. Or if nothing worthwhile happens when people are arrested. Pick up a newspaper and you'll see countless stories of so and so being charged for mugging a tourist, or stabbing someone or whatever. It is a safe bet, that that person has dozens of convictions for the very same thing, yet they are back on the streets 24 hrs later, with nowt but a slap on the wrist.

Jumboman

Kiltennel wrote: »

You do realise the Garda operation for the Queen cost €60 million in overtime? Not impossible, but extremely costly. I think a much more efficient solution would be to have Garda cars parked in known "hotspots" where they can quickly reach surrounding areas while having the surrounding areas heavily watched by CCTV. If a crime is spotted in one area and the criminal can be effectively tracked with CCTV, this would reduce the number of Gardai required on the actual streets as they can quickly respond to the crime by car while there'll be indisputable evidence available to help achieve a conviction in court.

Thats not what I'm proposing I'm saying there should be atleast 2 gardas on every major street in the city centre not hundreds like when the queen was here.

If there was a constant garda presence on O'Connell street incidents like this would not happen were a gang of Scumbags attack a shop for over 20 minutes and there is not a garda in sight.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/outrage-after-racist-attack-in-heart-of-the-capital-30189997.html

Ole Rodrigo

SpaceTime wrote: »

Dubliners need to start seeing Dublin City Centre as an interconnected big town really and not as umpteen little subdivided areas. It's not really big enough to have city boroughs in the city centre. The entire area that's within walking distance from O'Connell Bridge needs to be treated as one unit. That's not how Dubliners think though and they've a notion that it's all divided up by Northside vs Southside and postal district numbers.

One very positive thing would have been to give the whole city centre the Dublin 1 code and make the next ring around that Dublin 2.

Have to say its usually folks from outside Dublin that make an issue of Northside/ Southside, in my experience.

I agree that the city center should be one area and subject to the same budget allocation.

TheNog

Jumboman wrote: »

Thats not what I'm proposing I'm saying there should be atleast 2 gardas on every major street in the city centre not hundreds like when the queen was here.

If there was a constant garda presence on O'Connell street incidents like this would not happen were a gang of Scumbags attack a shop for over 20 minutes and there is not a garda in sight.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/outrage-after-racist-attack-in-heart-of-the-capital-30189997.html

There is simply not Gardai working at any particular time that would make your idea work. Right now Garda numbers are actually below 13,000 of which the last commissioner stated he could not guarantee a proper/effective policing service below that number.

In the Indo article one eye witness stated no Gardai came for about 15 minutes. Unless this is backed up by CCTV it is most likely not correct. Witness testimony can be seriously flawed if relying on memory only. From experience it would probably have been more like 5-10 minute wait.

littlemac1980

This article is a few weeks old now, but still relevant. It echo much of the discussion here.

http://www.herald.ie/opinion/jonny-wont-be-the-last-victim-of-violence-on-dublins-streets-30609739.html

Here are some extracts:

24 SEPTEMBER 2014 02:30 PM

ThE knifing of Dublin footballer Jonny Cooper highlights once again the dark, dangerous underbelly of our capital city.

...

Sadly and shamefully, Jonny (right) won't be the last innocent citizen to be viciously attacked and robbed in the city centre.

...

Crimes against a person, such as serious assaults, muggings, and thefts, along with drug offences and anti-social behaviour have long since reached crisis levels.

The latest CSO crime figures released for the year to June confirmed this. There has been an alarming increase in nearly all categories of crime against the person and, tellingly, theft and robberies were also up.

...

Parts of the inner city, day and night, have become no-go areas for many people. Fear of mugging and assault is rampant.

...

It is simply intolerable that innocent people can no longer walk the streets of our capital without fearing for their safety, even for their very lives.

littlemac1980

This is another recent story which relates to an incident on a Bus from July - but was just very recently aired on Crime-call.

The story is shocking. The footage within the article, though only short, is even more shocking.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/gardai-hunting-man-relation-vicious-4472222

Some extracts here:

...

The attacks happened on board the No 40 near Old Kilmainham Village at around 10.15pm on July 23 with the video going viral.

She added: "We didn't know the man who attacked us.

"He was a random guy. 
He sat down beside us and we could smell alcohol from him and so we tried to move.

"But he began shouting abuse at us saying that he'd kill my friend.

"Then he started attacking my friend, he was constantly kicking and attacking him for about five minutes.

"It was all getting very ugly and I got very scared so I told him I was going to call the Gardai if he didn't stop.

"Then I started recording him attacking my friend so that we would have proof.

"I moved away from them and when the guy saw that I was recording him he came at me and started hitting me.

"He hit me in the face so many times, I put my hands up towards my face to try and protect myself.

...

The woman said: "This attack has really affected my opinion of Ireland, especially in relation to my personal security.

"When we were waiting at the hospital, there were other people who had been attacked. "Has this become just a normal thing?

She told the Herald: "We are very disappointed. We are good citizens; we work honestly, pay our taxes and contribute to the society, for what?

alastair

littlemac1980 wrote: »

This article is a few weeks old now, but still relevant. It echo much of the discussion here.

http://www.herald.ie/opinion/jonny-wont-be-the-last-victim-of-violence-on-dublins-streets-30609739.html

Here are some extracts:

Fairly typical tabloid hyperbole.

There's no no-go areas in the city.

The 'alarming increase' in the annual crime figures they reference is a shocking fall of 6.1% for Attempts or threats to murder, assaults, harassments and related offences, and a fall of 1.4% in Burglary and related offences. Public order offences are down by 14.8%. Admittedly, Theft and related offences are up - but by 2.5%. Hardly alarming stuff.

Innocent people continue to walk the streets of the city - day and night, and, for the most part, without any fear for their safety.

January

alastair wrote: »

Fairly typical tabloid hyperbole.

There's no no-go areas in the city.

The 'alarming increase' in the annual crime figures they reference is a shocking fall of 6.1% for Attempts or threats to murder, assaults, harassments and related offences, and a fall of 1.4% in Burglary and related offences. Public order offences are down by 14.8%. Admittedly, Theft and related offences are up - but by 2.5%. Hardly alarming stuff.

Innocent people continue to walk the streets of the city - day and night, and, for the most part, without any fear for their safety.

Want to give us a source for these figures?