Prime Time on state of Dublin City Center tomorrow night

alastair

Peter Anthony wrote: »

drumswan and Alastair the Fine Gael member still with their head in the sand. Sad really, they've ruined this thread with their bias.

What 'bias' would that be? The bias of actual crime stats at odds with the rhetoric? The actual experience of living in the city centre for years, as opposed to fantasists who don't?

I thought it was explained to you already that I've never voted FG, let alone been a member, but if fantasy is your bag...

alastair

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

There is a serious flaw in your logic though. Firstly, those are reported crime figures - the fact that one of the complaints is a lack of Gardaí on the street would result in fewer crimes detected/reported. Secondly, incidents like the fistfight above and the aggressive begging, etc. would not necessarily be reported.

No flaw in my logic at all. The crime stats are always reported crime stats, so if they go up or down, it's still an accurate reflection of whether things are on the up or down. There's no difference in policing numbers between this year and last - exactly the same baseline.

alastair

Peter Anthony wrote: »

Didnt you know? Crimes don't count if they aren't in Fine Gaels released figures or if Alastair didn't see them.

All I'll say is Alastair must be one very lucky man, but I think its more likely he rarely sets foot in Dublin City centre, and is posting from his pad in Rathmines that Daddy paid for.

The figures are from the CSO. Nothing to do with FG.

I'm loving the continued stream of fantasy though. It's an alternative to the facts, I guess.

FreudianSlippers

alastair wrote: »

And what crime would that be? Were you beaten up? Did you give him/her a ciggy?

A crime contrary to section 6 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994.

Depending on the situation it could also be assault contrary to section 2 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 which doesn't require actual application of force.

Jumboman

alastair wrote: »

And what crime would that be? Were you beaten up? Did you give him/her a ciggy?

Here's the situation...


Scumbag - Have you got a cigarette ?

Me - No Sorry I don't smoke.

Scumbag- I'll smash your f**king face in.

The Scumbag then looks at me very aggressively like hes going to hit me.
I quickly cross onto the other side of the road. If I had not done so things would of got nasty.

---

Can you not see a crime was committed here ? If someone said the same thing to a politician you can be sure they would be arrested.

littlemac1980

Jumboman wrote: »

Here's the situation...


Scumbag - Have you got a cigarette ?

Me - No Sorry I don't smoke.

Scumbag- I'll smash your f**king face in.

The Scumbag then looks at me very aggressively like hes going to hit me.
I quickly cross onto the other side of the road. If I had not done so things would of got nasty.

---

Can you not see a crime was committed here ? If someone said the same thing to a politician you can be sure they would be arrested.

Sound likes a text-book incident of assault.

keane2097

alastair wrote: »

And what crime would that be? Were you beaten up? Did you give him/her a ciggy?

This is a very strange attitude to take to an unpleasant event tbf.

drumswan

Of course threatening someone with violence in a public place, or anywhere for that matter, is a crime.

Peter Anthony

alastair wrote: »

And what crime would that be? Were you beaten up? Did you give him/her a ciggy?

lol

This should be the end of anyone taking your trolling seriously. Disgraceful post.

Peter Anthony

alastair wrote: »

What 'bias' would that be? The bias of actual crime stats at odds with the rhetoric? The actual experience of living in the city centre for years, as opposed to fantasists who don't?

I thought it was explained to you already that I've never voted FG, let alone been a member, but if fantasy is your bag...

Don't try to muddy the waters, you were banned from the Politics forum due to your trolling posts re Fine Gael, and now your back here doing it.

You must have one sad life son.

tricky D

Peter Anthony given a break from the forum again for multiple reasons: personal attacks, ignoring mod instructions, on-thread troll calling...

I remind posters to remember to be aware of adhering to the charter. Tx.

Kermit.de.frog

It's not hard to see why the city center is the way it is when you have posters here who have such shoddy and low standards for their own city.

The city center, particularly the northside, is not ok. People need to get that in to their heads and also remember that it is not good enough that some places are "ok". That is not good enough either.

We have a delinquent police force incapable of policing the city center properly, a total disaster of a justice system and to top it all off every junkie scumbag and dealer from across Leinster is presented with a proverbial red carpet to come in and do what they like in large parts of the center of our capital city.

I'm embarrassed of Dublin city center and everyone else with any standards as to what a European capital city should aspire to be should be embarrassed as well.

miamee

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's not hard to see why the city center is the way it is when you have posters here who have such shoddy and low standards for their own city.

The city center, particularly the northside, is not ok. People need to get that in to their heads and also remember that it is not good enough that some places are "ok". That is not good enough either.

We have a delinquent police force incapable of policing the city center properly, a total disaster of a justice system and to top it all off every junkie scumbag and dealer from across Leinster is presented with a proverbial red carpet to come in and do what they like in large parts of the center of our capital city.

I'm embarrassed of Dublin city center and everyone else with any standards as to what a European capital city should aspire to be should be embarrassed as well.

I agree with almost everything you've said here Kermit. It's 'grand' or 'ok' or 'you weren't hit were you, sure what's the problem' are not good enough.

Dublin is and can be a great city but there are large anti-social elements that need to be cleared up. Just because some people may perceive it not to have gotten worse over time does not make it acceptable; it should be getting better.

The one thing I don't agree with is this. I haven't gotten to the stage of being embarrassed by Dublin. I still feel like it has more good than bad but there are definitely things that have to be worked on, improved and fixed. The day I feel truly embarrassed by the city will be the day I decide to move back to suburbia.

griffdaddy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's not hard to see why the city center is the way it is when you have posters here who have such shoddy and low standards for their own city.

The city center, particularly the northside, is not ok. People need to get that in to their heads and also remember that it is not good enough that some places are "ok". That is not good enough either.

We have a delinquent police force incapable of policing the city center properly, a total disaster of a justice system and to top it all off every junkie scumbag and dealer from across Leinster is presented with a proverbial red carpet to come in and do what they like in large parts of the center of our capital city.

I'm embarrassed of Dublin city center and everyone else with any standards as to what a European capital city should aspire to be should be embarrassed as well.

Which of the European cities set the standard, in your opinion?

drumswan

miamee wrote: »

IDublin is and can be a great city but there are large anti-social elements that need to be cleared up. Just because some people may perceive it not to have gotten worse over time does not make it acceptable; it should be getting better.

But crime rates are falling, visitor numbers are climbing, inward investment is rising, employment is rising... People seem to be only interested in their own biased perceptions and not fact.

Anyone who actually visits the city centre (other than in their imagination, which I suspect is the case with many here) will see that there are less undesirables around the boardwalk/Abbey st area over the last number of months. Amazed that no-one has mentioned this.

miamee

drumswan wrote: »

But crime rates are falling, visitor numbers are climbing, inward investment is rising, employment is rising... People seem to be only interested in their own biased perceptions and not fact.

Anyone who actually visits the city centre (other than in their imagination, which I suspect is the case with many here) will see that there are less undesirables around the boardwalk/Abbey st area over the last number of months. Amazed that no-one has mentioned this.

I'm delighted that the crime rates are falling but they need to continue to do so, or are you saying that the current level of crime is acceptable in some way?
I live and work in the city centre, anything I have said is based on my daily experience, not my imagination.

ebbsy

Any time I walk down O'Connell Street all I see are scumbags,junkies, and more scumbags.

And that is at any time of the day.

Kermit.de.frog

griffdaddy wrote: »

Which of the European cities set the standard, in your opinion?

London, Paris and Edinburgh are 3 cities that Dublin can learn a lot from.

It's not about the threat in Dublin. It is about perceived threat.


Is Dublin for an average tourist perceived as a threatening place, a menacing place? This happens due to several factors - 1. The urban decay, 2. the presence of so many undesirables, 3. The lack of police. The weather does not help either because it is often dull but we can not change that.

What has to change in Dublin in my opinion is better policing and improving the streetscapes and urban environment which is absolutely atrocious compared to most EU capitals I have been to with with the exception of Rome probably.

Dublin does not present a good atmosphere for tourists. I know because tourists have told me when I have asked for honest opinions. People do not feel safe in the north inner city which makes up a huge chunk of the center.

They may well be safe but the perception is that this is a ropey city and tourists are not comfortable around O'Connell St. And it is the perception that is most damaging.

Bottom line Dublin City Council, the Gardai and other agencies have to up their game big time and look after our city better.

drumswan

ebbsy wrote: »

Any time I walk down O'Connell Street all I see are scumbags,junkies, and more scumbags.

And that is at any time of the day.

Thats ALL you see? You seem to be afflicted with some sort of weird malady so.

:rolleyes:

drumswan

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's not about the threat in Dublin. It is about perceived threat.


Is Dublin for an average tourist perceived as a threatening place, a menacing place? This happens due to several factors - 1. The urban decay, 2. the presence of so many undesirables, 3. The lack of police. The weather does not help either because it is often dull but we can not change that.

What has to change in Dublin in my opinion is better policing and improving the streetscapes and urban environment which is absolutely atrocious compared to most EU capitals I have been to with with the exception of Rome probably.

Dublin does not present a good atmosphere for tourists.

As usual, you are talking absolute bollocks

http://www.failteireland.ie/FailteIreland/media/WebsiteStructure/Documents/3_Research_Insights/4_Visitor_Insights/FA%C2%A1ilte-Ireland-holiday-maker-study-Dublin-City-2013.pdf?ext=.pdf

devildriver

ebbsy wrote: »

Any time I walk down O'Connell Street all I see are scumbags,junkies, and more scumbags.

And that is at any time of the day.

I visited Dublin a few months ago for the first time in a long time and it's got noticeably worse for the amount of scummers around the place daytime and nighttime.

I moved out of Dublin in 2005 having spent 7 years there and it could just be the rose-tinted glasses of memory but to me it seems a lot worse than it was. Maybe it's a side-effect of the recession /austerity / whatever of the last few years, I don't know.

griffdaddy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

London, Paris and Edinburgh are 3 cities that Dublin can learn a lot from.

It's not about the threat in Dublin. It is about perceived threat.


Is Dublin for an average tourist perceived as a threatening place, a menacing place? This happens due to several factors - 1. The urban decay, 2. the presence of so many undesirables, 3. The lack of police. The weather does not help either because it is often dull but we can not change that.

What has to change in Dublin in my opinion is better policing and improving the streetscapes and urban environment which is absolutely atrocious compared to most EU capitals I have been to with with the exception of Rome probably.

Dublin does not present a good atmosphere for tourists. I know because tourists have told me when I have asked for honest opinions. People do not feel safe in the north inner city which makes up a huge chunk of the center.

They may well be safe but the perception is that this is a ropey city and tourists are not comfortable around O'Connell St. And it is the perception that is most damaging.

Bottom line Dublin City Council, the Gardai and other agencies have to up their game big time and look after our city better.

London and Paris are probably two of the most dangerous cities in Western Europe (and having said that neither are particularly dangerous). I've never been to Edinburgh before so can't comment on that. You seem to think that visitors who come here have never been in an urban an environment before. They know what beggars are. The know what junkies are. They have them at home too. The huge amount of repeat tourism and jam-packed hotels in Dublin completely contradict what you're saying. Think of all the issues they have in many cities that we don't have as well. There's no major race related crime here. Walk around some of the banlieus in Paris as a white person and see how long it takes to get your head kicked in. Try and get through one of the myriad street protests in Athens to get to your hotel and see how far you get. Every major urban environment has problems, with the exception of the Swiss cities possibly, and they're boring as fcuk by all accounts.

littlemac1980

devildriver wrote: »

I visited Dublin a few months ago for the first time in a long time and it's got noticeably worse for the amount of scummers around the place daytime and nighttime.

I moved out of Dublin in 2005 having spent 7 years there and it could just be the rose-tinted glasses of memory but to me it seems a lot worse than it was. Maybe it's a side-effect of the recession /austerity / whatever of the last few years, I don't know.

I think its a side effect of those people who have their heads in the sand, and say - if it's not a problem I've encountered - then it's not my problem - and therefore its not a problem at all.

There are also plenty of people with their eyes open to the reality of the situation, but unfortunately nothing is being done to actually tackle the issues.

As long as people continue to ignore the problems, or alternatively accept as normal a city wherein incidents of violent crime are acceptable then its very difficult to change anything.

Without a serious change in attitude from those who choose to ignore the problems and the consequences of such for the honest, hard-working innocent people, then there will continue to be incidents such as:

People getting viciously stabbed in unprovoked attacks while walking home at night through the city - As happened that poor unfortunate Dublin Footballer.

People being viciously assaulted in unprovoked attacks on buses as happened the foreign couple.

People who are subjected to violent and terrifying assaults while trying to make a living as happened to the workers in that shop on O'Connell street which was set upon by the group of violent thugs.

Just because some people choose to accept it as normal doesn't make it normal, and it doesn't make it OK.

There's no shame in criticising our cities or our Country when necessary.

Giruilla

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's not hard to see why the city center is the way it is when you have posters here who have such shoddy and low standards for their own city.

This post exactly. It's why theres not really much point engaging with certain posters on here.

Some people get so used to living a certain way in scares the sh*t out of them when someone strives for something better.

drumswan

littlemac1980 wrote: »

People getting viciously stabbed in unprovoked attacks while walking home at night through the city - As happened that poor unfortunate Dublin Footballer.

People being viciously assaulted in unprovoked attacks on buses as happened the foreign couple.

People who are subjected to violent and terrifying assaults while trying to make a living as happened to the workers in that shop on O'Connell street which was set upon by the group of violent thugs.

Just because some people choose to accept it as normal doesn't make it normal, and it doesn't make it OK.

There's no shame in criticising our cities or our Country when necessary.

Wait, wait, are you saying we should be working to eliminate violent crime entirely from Dublin? That we shouldnt be looking to be relatively safe, but instead carry out some grand utopian social experiment to eliminate violence from human nature in this particular city, even though this has not been achieved anywhere else, and we in fact have lower crime rates that most other capitals?

What planet are some of you people from?

This conversation is bordering on the absurd now. The Walter Mitty, Think-Of-The-Children brigade on here would be comical if they didnt get a vote equal to the rest of us.

alastair

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's not hard to see why the city center is the way it is when you have posters here who have such shoddy and low standards for their own city.

The city center, particularly the northside, is not ok. People need to get that in to their heads and also remember that it is not good enough that some places are "ok". That is not good enough either.

We have a delinquent police force incapable of policing the city center properly, a total disaster of a justice system and to top it all off every junkie scumbag and dealer from across Leinster is presented with a proverbial red carpet to come in and do what they like in large parts of the center of our capital city.

I'm embarrassed of Dublin city center and everyone else with any standards as to what a European capital city should aspire to be should be embarrassed as well.

I'm embarrassed for your rather unique perspective on the city, the police, and your attitude to addiction services. That you're not actually familiar with the day-to-day reality of the city centre (including the notorious 'northside' inner city) explains some of it, but there's so much just seriously at odds with the bleeding obvious, even to an occasional visitor into the city centre.

alastair

miamee wrote: »

Dublin is and can be a great city but there are large anti-social elements that need to be cleared up.

How does that work exactly? We're talking about Dubliners here - your fellow citizens, even if they're addicts or wear a tracksuit or whatever. Where are you 'clearing them' to, and for what exactly?

alastair

miamee wrote: »

I'm delighted that the crime rates are falling but they need to continue to do so, or are you saying that the current level of crime is acceptable in some way?

Did you see anyone claim that any level of crime was acceptable? The claim was that crime was at an elevated crisis level, as evident in the crime rate figures. Neither of which is actually the case.

alastair

littlemac1980 wrote: »

I think its a side effect of those people who have their heads in the sand, and say - if it's not a problem I've encountered - then it's not my problem - and therefore its not a problem at all.
...
As long as people continue to ignore the problems, or alternatively accept as normal a city wherein incidents of violent crime are acceptable then its very difficult to change anything.
...

There's no shame in criticising our cities or our Country when necessary.

There is however ample shame in falsely ascribing straw man claims on posters, and in misrepresenting the actual prevalence of crime in the city.

alastair

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

London, Paris and Edinburgh are 3 cities that Dublin can learn a lot from.

Oh noes! Junkies ruining the ambience of tourist-central Edinburgh!
http://www.scotsman.com/news/armed-siege-sparks-anger-over-royal-mile-drug-use-1-2934681?plckOnPage=2

“There’s an old red phone box on the street that they also use to ring their dealers and top up their methadone, and there’s a nearby close they use for shooting up or 
whatever.

“This is supposed to be one of the city’s main tourists attractions yet we’re dishing out drugs to junkies on it.”