Consumer or Landlord issue with water rates

Gatling

Marcusm wrote: »

Why would you have a data protection issue? A data controller must collect and use information 9(including its disclosure) in accordance with the purpose for which it is collected. You have collected the data in connection witht he letting of the property and you would be disclosing that data in a manner consistent with your responsibilities. I've had landlords provide my details to electricity and gas suppliers in the past; why do you think this is different? Mountain out of molehill.

Sorry no no landlord has the right to disclose a pps number or a families pps numbers to a utility company ,

Marcusm

Gatling wrote: »

Sorry no no landlord has the right to disclose a pps number or a families pps numbers to a utility company ,

A landlord has a duty to process information only for the purpose for which it is collected, in this case the operation of the rental property and associated issues, ie he cannot sell it or randomly scatter it around. Irish Water, in contrast to other utilities, is permitted under Social Welfare regulations to utilise PPS numbers in its operations. On this basis, I doubt that any issue would arise and certainly I would argue that the data controller (the landlord) has a defence to any argument that the PPS number could be disclosed. In any event, it is irrelevant, simply disclosing the name of the registered tenant will allow Irish Water to make contact and it can seek to collect the PPS number directly.

emeldc

Marcusm wrote: »

A landlord has a duty to process information only for the purpose for which it is collected, in this case the operation of the rental property and associated issues, ie he cannot sell it or randomly scatter it around. Irish Water, in contrast to other utilities, is permitted under Social Welfare regulations to utilise PPS numbers in its operations. On this basis, I doubt that any issue would arise and certainly I would argue that the data controller (the landlord) has a defence to any argument that the PPS number could be disclosed. In any event, it is irrelevant, simply disclosing the name of the registered tenant will allow Irish Water to make contact and it can seek to collect the PPS number directly.

What you say sounds correct to me, yet Airtricity refuse to deal with LL's when registering or de registering tenants stating data protections rules. Strangely enough ESB or B/Gas have no problem with it.

delahuntv

I had a chat with IW yestserday and asked them just so that I can be certain.

Advice is that you get the tenant to register the same way they register with other utilities.

Where the tenant registers and give pps number, the tenant will get their allowance and will be responsible for the bill. If the tenant moves out and there is a balance, IW will make efforts to ensure the tenant pays. If the tenant does not pay it is NOT transferred to the LL.

However is the tenant does NOT register, then the LL is responsible.

The EXACT same as ESB or gas. If you allow your tenant to live without registering for ESB, Gas, Water, then you are responsible in all cases.

If you get the tenant to register for ESB, Gas & water, the tenant assumes full responsibility.

The LL can register the tenant, but as LL may not have or have permission to give pps number, then tenant will not have the allowances - therefore it is up to the tenant to register in order to minimise their bill.

If you have a good tenant, you won't have an issue, if you have a bad tenant, then a water bill is probably the least of your worries.

Probably best to have a clause in the agreement that LL can provide pps numbers to utility services. BTW - currently IW will not be asking for deposit from tenants (unlike ESB, Bord Gas, Airtricity or energia) or insisting on DD payments in lieu of deposit.

emeldc

delahuntv wrote: »

I had a chat with IW yestserday and asked them just so that I can be certain.

Advice is that you get the tenant to register the same way they register with other utilities.

Where the tenant registers and give pps number, the tenant will get their allowance and will be responsible for the bill. If the tenant moves out and there is a balance, IW will make efforts to ensure the tenant pays. If the tenant does not pay it is NOT transferred to the LL.

However is the tenant does NOT register, then the LL is responsible.

The EXACT same as ESB or gas. If you allow your tenant to live without registering for ESB, Gas, Water, then you are responsible in all cases.

If you get the tenant to register for ESB, Gas & water, the tenant assumes full responsibility.

The LL can register the tenant, but as LL may not have or have permission to give pps number, then tenant will not have the allowances - therefore it is up to the tenant to register in order to minimise their bill.

If you have a good tenant, you won't have an issue, if you have a bad tenant, then a water bill is probably the least of your worries.

Probably best to have a clause in the agreement that LL can provide pps numbers to utility services. BTW - currently IW will not be asking for deposit from tenants (unlike ESB, Bord Gas, Airtricity or energia) or insisting on DD payments in lieu of deposit.

Im sorry but they are wrong in that respect. I can deregister myself from my property with a final reading. If the new tenant doesn't register they'll be cut off. ESB or Gas can't chase the landlord because there is no contract.

Gatling

Odd they publicly stated that landlords won't be held responsible for non payments from tenants ,

Still under any circumstances will i allow my landlord to give my or my kids pps numbers to a utility company that i didn't ask for

UCDVet

Similar question, but from the opposite perspective: Does anyone know who is liable for the water charges in the case of a broken/leaking pipe/dripping sink/running toilet in the case of a landlord/tenant?

For example - I rent. I don't own the apartment, nor the sink/toilet/facets/pipes in the wall. I register with IW, so I'm meant to pay the water bill. Let's say I come home from work and realize the toilet that was flushed at 7am never stopped refilling with water, because it is defective in some way. Now, I'd call up the landlord and he'd be obliged to fix it. Based on past experiences this would probably take 2-3 weeks. Assume that I don't have a shut-off value for the toilet, so short of turning off all of the water to the apartment, I can't reasonably do anything.

Under this new Irish Water scheme - who is liable for the water wasted? The amount could be quite significant - but it would be pretty impossible for me to measure how much water. When I register with IW, as a tenant, am I taking full responsibility for all water that goes through the meter?

A gas leak is quite serious and exceptionally rare. I've seen on the tele a phone number to call 24/7 and they'll fix it. Presumably, I'd do that, and problem solved.
An appliance that caused a problem - well, I'd just unplug it. If my washing machine wouldn't stop washing, I'd unplug it and no more wasted electricity.

But with a water problem, it seems like my hands are tied with regards to fixing the problem - since the landlord is meant to do it and I can't disconnect individual things from the water line....but I have to pay for the water.

delahuntv

emeldc wrote: »

Im sorry but they are wrong in that respect. I can deregister myself from my property with a final reading. If the new tenant doesn't register they'll be cut off. ESB or Gas can't chase the landlord because there is no contract.

Then get yourself good tenants - as I said, if you have tenants that won't register, then water will be a small issue compared to other potential issues that bad tenants cause.

As a landlord you can't just shrug your shoulders and do nothing, its your property, they are your tenants, you have to take some responsibility for how your tenants act. If you don't like it, sell up and stop whinging about what ifs.

Gatling

delahuntv wrote: »

Then get yourself good tenants - as I said, if you have tenants that won't register, then water will be a small issue compared to other potential issues that bad tenants cause.

As a landlord you can't just shrug your shoulders and do nothing, its your property, they are your tenants, you have to take some responsibility for how your tenants act. If you don't like it, sell up and stop whinging about what ifs.

So people who don't sign up to IW are bad tenants really .

emeldc

delahuntv wrote: »

Then get yourself good tenants - as I said, if you have tenants that won't register, then water will be a small issue compared to other potential issues that bad tenants cause.

As a landlord you can't just shrug your shoulders and do nothing, its your property, they are your tenants, you have to take some responsibility for how your tenants act. If you don't like it, sell up and stop whinging about what ifs.

WTF are you talking about. Why would I take any responsibility for my tenants utility bills. They would never pay for anything ffs. I think you're just winding me up now.
And by the way i have great tenants but maybe they wont sign up as a form of protest, who knows.

shruikan2553

delahuntv wrote: »

Then get yourself good tenants - as I said, if you have tenants that won't register, then water will be a small issue compared to other potential issues that bad tenants cause.

As a landlord you can't just shrug your shoulders and do nothing, its your property, they are your tenants, you have to take some responsibility for how your tenants act. If you don't like it, sell up and stop whinging about what ifs.

You can for nearly every other bills the tenant might have.

Gatling

Maybe landlords should encourage us tenants to sign up to services of there choices or else

Big Davey

Gatling wrote: »

You cannot do that under any law concerning data protection and privacy

Its already been stated publicly that landlords will not be held responsible for tenants not paying
,

At this rate you could possibly end up with several costly legal actions

Where exactly was it stated publicly that landlords will not be held responsible for tenants not paying ?
The letter I recieved seems to me to state if the tenant dies not pay then I will have to pay for them.

Gatling

Big Davey wrote: »

Where exactly was it stated publicly that landlords will not be held responsible for tenants not paying ?
The letter I recieved seems to me to state if the tenant dies not pay then I will have to pay for them.

IW stated it several times already including on 2 tv programs

Big Davey

Gatling wrote: »

IW stated it several times already including on 2 tv programs

Ok I have not seen it but I will take your word for it it's good news for me. What in your opinion would be the best tactic for a landlord to take ? Ignore letters from IW ? I will not give my Tenants PPS numbers as that would be illegal. And am not interested in bullying or trying to get my tenants to sign up to something that has nothing to do with me.

Gatling

Big Davey wrote: »

Ok I have not seen it but I will take your word for it it's good news for me. What in your opinion would be the best tactic for a landlord to take ? Ignore letters from IW ? I will not give my Tenants PPS numbers as that would be illegal. And am not interested in bullying or trying to get my tenants to sign up to something that has nothing to do with me.

My landlord is ignoring it he's 4 apartments and his one so that's 5 he's supposed to hand over details on,
all rented to families he won't hand over pps to them .
My gripe is lack of information in how we're going to be billed .

I've his landlord pack along with ours sitting in a drawer .

Some landlords are saying they will force tenants to sign new leases or be evicted if tenants don't hand over pps numbers which is wrong .

Other's are saying the PTRB will hand over the pps numbers to IW can't see that happening either .

Big Davey

Gatling wrote: »

My landlord is ignoring it he's 4 apartments and his one so that's 5 he's supposed to hand over details on,
all rented to families he won't hand over pps to them .
My gripe is lack of information in how we're going to be billed .

I've his landlord pack along with ours sitting in a drawer .

Some landlords are saying they will force tenants to sign new leases or be evicted if tenants don't hand over pps numbers which is wrong .

Other's are saying the PTRB will hand over the pps numbers to IW can't see that happening either .

I agree with everything you have said. IW can take it up with the people using the water not me just like gas or electricity etc then can turn the water down or off I read somewhere I think.
I won't be threatening anybody with eviction and certainly won't be giving PPS numbers out.
I don't technically own the property till my final payment to the bank so IW can take it up with the bank or the tenants things are hard enough for landlords nowadays with non paying tenants and the lack of any real support by courts or the system in general.