Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

byrneg28

Quazzie wrote: »

He has been good for the club because for a short period he helped us maintain the achieve some of the success we have achieved in the past. He hasn't done anything the club hasn't done before in the past, although some seem to think the club started when sky started showing games.

He has been good for the club, bur he is past being good. I don't believe he will ever win another title at the club so I believe he should step down and let some other manager help us make the step up.

I thanked that post because it pointed out that we are a club steeped in history, which Wenger has added to greatly, but he no longer is.

Okay fair enough I agree with some but I think some of these are quite sweeping statements.

' He hasn't done anything the club hasn't done before in the past' I won't re-iterate what I've said a million times before but I understand your viewpoint, your argument is purely qualitative statistics, a number of trophies to be precise.

You live in the here and now, you can't think of the bigger picture. So my children and my children's children can watch Arsenal compete at the highest level. Wenger has won 8 Trophies in 18 years managing Arsenal, before Roman Abrhamovic took over Chelsea, Chelsea had won 9 in 98 years.

Yes he's lost it a bit in some aspects of his football management, but what he has done for this club going forward is something no one has done before. Maybe Chapman, is the only one close but even at that I don't think he has changed it like Wenger has.

As you made the argument to what you also called 'inaccurate facts' - a poster made the point Chapman won 3 in 9 years, you then said yes but it was 7 trophies in total with the team that Chapman built.

Well if thats the way you look at it. Allow me to say every trophy that is won when Wenger leaves as a manager. Can be counted for Wenger winning that trophy, simply for the legacy he has built going forward.

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

I was agreeing with Yippeee

Quazzie

byrneg28 wrote: »

Okay fair enough I agree with some but I think some of these are quite sweeping statements.

' He hasn't done anything the club hasn't done before in the past' I won't re-iterate what I've said a million times before but I understand your viewpoint, your argument is purely qualitative statistics, a number of trophies to be precise.

You live in the here and now, you can't think of the bigger picture. So my children and my children's children can watch Arsenal compete at the highest level. Wenger has won 8 Trophies in 18 years managing Arsenal, before Roman Abrhamovic took over Chelsea, Chelsea had won 9 in 98 years.

Yes he's lost it a bit in some aspects of his football management, but what he has done for this club going forward is something no one has done before. Maybe Chapman, is the only one close but even at that I don't think he has changed it like Wenger has.

As you made the argument to what you also called 'inaccurate facts' - a poster made the point Chapman won 3 in 9 years, you then said yes but it was 7 trophies in total with the team that Chapman built.

Well if thats the way you look at it. Allow me to say every trophy that is won when Wenger leaves as a manager. Can be counted for Wenger winning that trophy, simply for the legacy he has built going forward.

I fear I've been lumped in with some others who think that Wenger was never any good for the club, or some who will undermine his achievements to peddle a campaign to get him out. That is certainly not the case for me. I fully appreciate everything that Arsene has done for the club, and I don't underestimate how revolutionary he has been, both for the club, and for the league in total. He came in and made all around us to have to change to suit. That's excellent, and in my opinion irrefutable, where I took some umbrage above was that some were making out that we were small club before his arrival and that his level of success in terms of silverware is unprecedented. I just don't think people should make some statements as "facts" when they are very wrong at worse or debatable at best.

I do believe that Wenger has been great for the club, and his work in the first years when we enjoyed great success, has been equally matched by his ability to keep us consistent during the building of the statement. I don't think anyone can deny he has been a success in both those periods of his time in charge here. I certainly won't be denying him that credit.

I do also believe he is leaving behind a legacy with his great work, one that will last longer than many will admit, simply due to the level of financial control the club is run under, which means we can continue to grow for years to come.

However I also believe that he is starting to tarnish his legacy now, and if he stepped aside at the end of last year. He would have left on success, and everyone would have been singing his praises to a job well done. I think he hasn't got it in him to make the step back up to where he was before, and I think his decision to stay will be what will make people question his whole time here and even make it seem less successful.

Ken Shamrock

byrneg28 wrote: »

Okay fair enough I agree with some but I think some of these are quite sweeping statements.

' He hasn't done anything the club hasn't done before in the past' I won't re-iterate what I've said a million times before but I understand your viewpoint, your argument is purely qualitative statistics, a number of trophies to be precise.

You live in the here and now, you can't think of the bigger picture. So my children and my children's children can watch Arsenal compete at the highest level. Wenger has won 8 Trophies in 18 years managing Arsenal, before Roman Abrhamovic took over Chelsea, Chelsea had won 9 in 98 years.

Yes he's lost it a bit in some aspects of his football management, but what he has done for this club going forward is something no one has done before. Maybe Chapman, is the only one close but even at that I don't think he has changed it like Wenger has.

As you made the argument to what you also called 'inaccurate facts' - a poster made the point Chapman won 3 in 9 years, you then said yes but it was 7 trophies in total with the team that Chapman built.

Well if thats the way you look at it. Allow me to say every trophy that is won when Wenger leaves as a manager. Can be counted for Wenger winning that trophy, simply for the legacy he has built going forward.

:eek: Come on now.

byrneg28

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

:eek: Come on now.

byrneg28 wrote: »

Okay fair enough I agree with some but I think some of these are quite sweeping statements.

' He hasn't done anything the club hasn't done before in the past' I won't re-iterate what I've said a million times before but I understand your viewpoint, your argument is purely qualitative statistics, a number of trophies to be precise.

You live in the here and now, you can't think of the bigger picture. So my children and my children's children can watch Arsenal compete at the highest level. Wenger has won 8 Trophies in 18 years managing Arsenal, before Roman Abrhamovic took over Chelsea, Chelsea had won 9 in 98 years.

Yes he's lost it a bit in some aspects of his football management, but what he has done for this club going forward is something no one has done before. Maybe Chapman, is the only one close but even at that I don't think he has changed it like Wenger has.

As you made the argument to what you also called 'inaccurate facts' - a poster made the point Chapman won 3 in 9 years, you then said yes but it was 7 trophies in total with the team that Chapman built.

Well if thats the way you look at it. Allow me to say every trophy that is won when Wenger leaves as a manager. Can be counted for Wenger winning that trophy, simply for the legacy he has built going forward.

I didn't mean it literally. Come on now Bob

Ken Shamrock

Quazzie wrote: »

I fear I've been lumped in with some others who think that Wenger was never any good for the club, or some who will undermine his achievements to peddle a campaign to get him out. That is certainly not the case for me. I fully appreciate everything that Arsene has done for the club, and I don't underestimate how revolutionary he has been, both for the club, and for the league in total. He came in and made all around us to have to change to suit. That's excellent, and in my opinion irrefutable, where I took some umbrage above was that some were making out that we were small club before his arrival and that his level of success in terms of silverware is unprecedented. I just don't think people should make some statements as "facts" when they are very wrong at worse or debatable at best.

I do believe that Wenger has been great for the club, and his work in the first years when we enjoyed great success, has been equally matched by his ability to keep us consistent during the building of the statement. I don't think anyone can deny he has been a success in both those periods of his time in charge here. I certainly won't be denying him that credit.

I do also believe he is leaving behind a legacy with his great work, one that will last longer than many will admit, simply due to the level of financial control the club is run under, which means we can continue to grow for years to come.

However I also believe that he is starting to tarnish his legacy now, and if he stepped aside at the end of last year. He would have left on success, and everyone would have been singing his praises to a job well done. I think he hasn't got it in him to make the step back up to where he was before, and I think his decision to stay will be what will make people question his whole time here and even make it seem less successful.

Nobody in here thinks that way. Nobody.

Irish Aris

Quazzie wrote: »

I didn't realised the club was only established in 1966.


Also the answer is 3, which coincidentally is the same as Wenger will manage if he stays to manage us for 30 years.

I love how you pick only whatever suits your "Wenger Out" argument.

Between 1950 and 1995 we won 4 league titles and 3 FA cups. Would you call this a domination?

The only time that we dominated English football was in the 30's.
Since then it was very inconsistent. Some very good years, some very average year?

So what? Is Wenger the 2nd/3rd most successful manager in Arsenal history?

But to dismiss him as a complete failure. . . I can take anyone that holds that opinion seriously.

And no, I am not interested to see Wenger for another 13 years as the manager of Arsenal. I don't think I will anyway.

Quazzie

Irish Aris wrote: »

I love how you pick only whatever suits your "Wenger Out" argument.

Between 1950 and 1995 we won 4 league titles and 3 FA cups. Would you call this a domination?

The only time that we dominated English football was in the 30's.
Since then it was very inconsistent. Some very good years, some very average year?

So what? Is Wenger the 2nd/3rd most successful manager in Arsenal history?

But to dismiss him as a complete failure. . . I can take anyone that holds that opinion seriously.

And no, I am not interested to see Wenger for another 13 years as the manager of Arsenal. I don't think I will anyway.

When did I say Wenger was a complete failure?

Don't put words in my mouth.

byrneg28

Quazzie wrote: »

I fear I've been lumped in with some others who think that Wenger was never any good for the club, or some who will undermine his achievements to peddle a campaign to get him out. That is certainly not the case for me. I fully appreciate everything that Arsene has done for the club, and I don't underestimate how revolutionary he has been, both for the club, and for the league in total. He came in and made all around us to have to change to suit. That's excellent, and in my opinion irrefutable, where I took some umbrage above was that some were making out that we were small club before his arrival and that his level of success in terms of silverware is unprecedented. I just don't think people should make some statements as "facts" when they are very wrong at worse or debatable at best.

I do believe that Wenger has been great for the club, and his work in the first years when we enjoyed great success, has been equally matched by his ability to keep us consistent during the building of the statement. I don't think anyone can deny he has been a success in both those periods of his time in charge here. I certainly won't be denying him that credit.

I do also believe he is leaving behind a legacy with his great work, one that will last longer than many will admit, simply due to the level of financial control the club is run under, which means we can continue to grow for years to come.

However I also believe that he is starting to tarnish his legacy now, and if he stepped aside at the end of last year. He would have left on success, and everyone would have been singing his praises to a job well done. I think he hasn't got it in him to make the step back up to where he was before, and I think his decision to stay will be what will make people question his whole time here and even make it seem less successful.

I personally like your posts man and I almost always agree with you in the past but I'm just confused right now. I don't know how you can say what I labelled in bold when just previously you said

Quazzie wrote: »

He hasn't done anything the club hasn't done before in the past

Kind of comes across as Wenger's reign has been mediocre. I know you probably don't mean that but it's just the way it comes across

Quazzie

byrneg28 wrote: »

I personally like your posts man and I almost always agree with you in the past but I'm just confused right now. I don't know how you can say what I labelled in bold when just previously you said



Kind of comes across as Wenger's reign has been mediocre. I know you probably don't mean that but it's just the way it comes across

No. He has (nearly) achieved what the club has achieved before. My statement was to remind some others that Herbert Chapman was just as revolutionary, in a time when his revolution changed the world of football, not just English football. So while Wenger has achieved great success, other managers have achieved greater success at Arsenal in the past.

I will however retract my statement because no one has achieved an unbeaten season.

Irish Aris

Quazzie wrote: »

When did I say Wenger was a complete failure?

Don't put words in my mouth.

Apologies Quazzie, I took it a step too far, didn't see your last post.

Colonialboy

Interesting discussion on the history of Arsenal, its easy to spot the people who havent followed Arsenal thru the 70,80s, and 90s before Wengers arrival.

Arsenal were and always have been a massive club.
Anyone (and that includes Wenger) who thinks Wenger invented Arsenals current stature is delusional.

One could argue that the Premiership has become LESS competitive .
in the last 20 years of the old First Division ... 13 different teams shared 1st and 2nd spots. Whereas the PL has only had 7 teams sharing 1st and 2nd in the same time frame.

So to win the old FIRST DIVISION was much harder than the PL , because there were more teams truly competing for that title.

And all the discussion about Wengers great contribution and how successfull he was seems to be forgetting the contribution made by the players who played under Wenger .... the Arsenal greats Bergkamp,Henry,Pires,Viera, etc.... did Wenger make them or did they make Wenger , or maybe it was bit of both, just like did Wenger make Arsenal FC or did Arsenal FC make Wenger, probably a both of both there too?

efb

Officially Chapmam only won 2 titles

Quazzie

efb wrote: »

Officially Chapmam only won 2 titles

Technically true as he died before he got to complete his third title which was won by the caretaker coach who took over. The team went on to win two more titles though.

Chapman was just as revolutionary as Wenger though, which was the point i was making and in terms of league domination he was there to set us up for our greatest period of success.

dinorebel

Good thing we won going by this thread today.

flyingoutside

Quazzie wrote: »

No. He has (nearly) achieved what the club has achieved before. My statement was to remind some others that Herbert Chapman was just as revolutionary, in a time when his revolution changed the world of football, not just English football. So while Wenger has achieved great success, other managers have achieved greater success at Arsenal in the past.

I will however retract my statement because no one has achieved an unbeaten season.

To be fair only Chapman maybe (depending on your preference) achieved greater success. Wouldn't put anyone else up there with them.

Also while yes arsenal were always a big team i think when Wenger took over he took us to the next step. Sure when he took over players were still going for chips and pints after training, let alone a few alcoholics thrown in too. I dread to think what would of happened to us at that time without Wenger. And while yes i would of course like more trophies and the race for fourth can be heart breaking the consistency over the Wenger years has been great. I'd much rather be fighting for fourth than having seasons like Utd had last year or liverpool a two years ago.

byrneg28

Do we still want Klopp, or have our trigger happy Boardsies changed their tune?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/30/eintracht-frankfurt-borussia-dortmund-bundesliga-match-report :pac:

tayto lover

dinorebel wrote: »

Good thing we won going by this thread today.

The last few pages have nothing to do with last Sat's win in fairness.
They're about the history of the club. A proud history with many great managers and players doing their bit.
I saw all these guys in person and knew a few to talk to --
http://www.arsenal.com/history/the-seventies/arsenal-clinch-their-first-double

Mr Blobby

byrneg28 wrote: »

Do we still want Klopp, or have our trigger happy Boardsies changed their tune?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/30/eintracht-frankfurt-borussia-dortmund-bundesliga-match-report :pac:

Its probably best not commenting the BVB situation unless you actually watch/follow them.

Otherwise you get a lot of people commenting on things they know little about..

..Not that its stopped them before.

Ken Shamrock

Oooh, things seem to be getting quite personal in here, a few jimmies have been rustled.

Mr Blobby

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Oooh, things seem to be getting quite personal in here, a few jimmies have been rustled.

jonneymendoza

Irish Aris wrote: »

I love how you pick only whatever suits your "Wenger Out" argument.

Between 1950 and 1995 we won 4 league titles and 3 FA cups. Would you call this a domination?

The only time that we dominated English football was in the 30's.
Since then it was very inconsistent. Some very good years, some very average year?

So what? Is Wenger the 2nd/3rd most successful manager in Arsenal history?

But to dismiss him as a complete failure. . . I can take anyone that holds that opinion seriously.

And no, I am not interested to see Wenger for another 13 years as the manager of Arsenal. I don't think I will anyway.

no one is saying he is a complete failure!

people want him to leave now due to being a failure in the past 5+ years!

jonneymendoza

dinorebel wrote: »

Good thing we won going by this thread today.

umm no it just shows we aint fickle fans that all of a sudden one win means wenger is the next pep guadiola and now arsenal will win the treble..

byrneg28

jonneymendoza wrote: »

umm no it just shows we aint fickle fans that all of a sudden one win means wenger is the next pep guadiola and now arsenal will win the treble..

Is it not quite the opposite, where one loss means this place goes into meltdown?

Mr Blobby

byrneg28 wrote: »

Is it not quite the opposite, where one loss means this place goes into meltdown?

Meltdowns an understatement for this place after a loss :pac:

byrneg28

Mr Blobby wrote: »

Its probably best not commenting the BVB situation unless you actually watch/follow them.

Otherwise you get a lot of people commenting on things they know little about..

..Not that its stopped them before.

I would ask you to give some insights, but I guess that would go against the Arsenal thread, so I'll do my own research..

greendom

jonneymendoza wrote: »

no one is saying he is a complete failure!

people want him to leave now due to being a failure in the past 5+ years!

How has he been a failure in the last 5 years?

Nemeses2050

Joel Campbell linked to Swansea City...

"Garry Monk declines to comment on reports linking him with a move for Arsenal striker Joel Campbell.
The Swansea boss says he has "one or two" names on his wanted list for January but will not speculate on names". - BBCSPORT

byrneg28

Former Arsenal striker Thierry Henry has left New York Red Bulls after four-and-a-half years with the MLS club. - BBC Sport

Ken Shamrock

Mr Blobby wrote: »

Meltdowns an understatement for this place after a loss :pac:

The Meltdowns don't come after a loss they come after our worst start to the league in what? 50-60-70 years? Losing to the likes of Swansea constantly drawing games we should be winning etc etc.

jonneymendoza

byrneg28 wrote: »

Is it not quite the opposite, where one loss means this place goes into meltdown?

so we have lost once only this season?:pac::pac:

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

The Meltdowns don't come after a loss they come after our worst start to the league in what? 50-60-70 years? Losing to the likes of Swansea constantly drawing games we should be winning etc etc.

Back that up please - not saying its wrong, but I'd like to see the proof ?

byrneg28

greendom wrote: »

Back that up please - not saying its wrong, but I'd like to see the proof ?

It's our worst league start in 32 years to be precise 1982 - Bob just using it as a sensationalist point, he doesn't actually mean it was 50/60 years, he just means it was a very long time

extra gravy

Henry announces he's leaving the bulls then changes his cover on Facebook:



Hmm

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

Back that up please - not saying its wrong, but I'd like to see the proof ?

byrneg28 wrote: »

It's our worst league start in 32 years to be precise 1982 - Bob just using it as a sensationalist point, he doesn't actually mean it was 50/60 years, he just means it was a very long time

I genuinely didn't know the exact number of years i just knew it was a very long time, worst in PL history whatever way you look at it.

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

I genuinely didn't know the exact number of years i just knew it was a very long time, worst in PL history whatever way you look at it.

In 94- 95 we had less points after 13 games

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/league-table.html?season=1994-1995&timelineView=played&matchNo=13&tableView=CURRENT_STANDINGS

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

In 94- 95 we had less points after 13 games

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/league-table.html?season=1994-1995&timelineView=played&matchNo=13&tableView=CURRENT_STANDINGS

I think the stat was after 12 games, you'd swear i made the stat up? It was all over the place Sky Sports and all running with it.

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

I think the stat was after 12 games, you'd swear i made the stat up? It was all over the place Sky Sports and all running with it.

fair enough, but now we've played 13 games and that record no longer stands. We had a worse record after 13 matches in George Graham's last season at the club....

wonder whether that will give hope to anybody ?

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

fair enough, but now we've played 13 games and that record no longer stands. We had a worse record after 13 matches in George Graham's last season at the club....

wonder whether that will give hope to anybody ?

No it really makes no odds, it's a terrible start to the season.

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

No it really makes no odds, it's a terrible start to the season.

true - not as terrible as you were making out though :pac:

Hyzepher

Arsenal were always considered a big club but it had little to do with results. Sure we have had periods of success along the way - generally very concentrated periods - put other clubs (prior to AW) could always trump us one way or another.

The media however always considered us one of the top clubs in England and the odd trophy along the way seemed to keep that notion going.

The success in the 30s was great but we never really had a period of dominance like LFC or ManU.

But we were always fairly consistent - especially in the cups.

I have heard some journalists over the weekend comment on AW's legacy saying that no other BIG club would allow a manager survive such a lack of success and that although AW has been good for the club they were rubbishing any notion of AW actually contributing to Arsenal's big club status - stating that the club was doing fine before he came.

Regardless of what you think of AW now, with all that's happened in the last few years, I think all Arsenal supporters would agree that the club would be in a worse state if AW never existed.

The real question is whether any other manager would have done a better job from 2005 'til now with the obvious restraints laid on my the club etc.

In the last 10 years since Arsenal last won the league only 3 clubs have won it.
In the last 10 years since Arsenal last won the league no club other than Arsenal has remained in the top 4.
In the last 10 years since Arsenal last won the league no other club has retained their manager
In the last 10 years since Arsenal last won the league no other club in the top tier has built a new stadium

If Chelsea win it this year it will have been 5 years since their last.
It took Man City 34 years to win one recently
Liverpool's last win was 1990


The point is that even with all this negativity and gloom and the worst start in a billion years, Arsenal fans have a lot to be thankful for. Yes we struggle to complete with the big spenders of the last few years but those days are over.

Have a look at those stats again - imagine what we can do now the financial restraints begin to loosen!

flyingoutside

extra gravy wrote: »

Henry announces he's leaving the bulls then changes his cover on Facebook:


Hmm

Just seen this quote from L'equipe talking about arsenal winning the champions league.

"This is my club and, as a player, I was not able to give them the Champions League."

What a legend

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

true - not as terrible as you were making out though :pac:

October 24th 2 wins 5 draws and a loss that's 11 points from 8 games... now we're looking at 20 from 13 which is obviously a big improvement. But 19 points dropped, i'm not making it out to be anything more than it is, a terrible terrible start.

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

fair enough, but now we've played 13 games and that record no longer stands. We had a worse record after 13 matches in George Graham's last season at the club....

wonder whether that will give hope to anybody ?

Wonder is that bit prophetic?

tayto lover

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

October 24th 2 wins 5 draws and a loss that's 11 points from 8 games... now we're looking at 20 from 13 which is obviously a big improvement. But 19 points dropped, i'm not making it out to be anything more than it is, a terrible terrible start.

For me it's not the losses or the league position at all.
It's the poor performances.
If they played well and lost i'd be happy usually but some of our performances in the last 2 seasons in particular have been very poor.

Soups123

This place is hard reading at the minute, those not supporting Wenger are being called out for stats, proof and in mass being accused of not appreciating what Arsene has done for this club. Demand whatever stats and proof you need but aside from all that our team is performing poorly at a very worrying level. Injuries aside the same issues are being repeated year on year be it transfer, tactics, fitness and player confidence. As for the holding up the building of a stadium as a defence, of course it is and it excuses Arsenal not winning the PL/CL in that time, it doesn’t excuse the lack of trophy accumulation from cups though or the shockingly poor record against big teams or the continuous closing of windows without key areas being strengthened.

Those on the ‘would like to see change’ side, would like to see that, have we reached new level of frustrations? Of Course, has that resulted in more exaggerated posts? Of course it has, I think the era you began to follow Arsenal plays a part, those who think he transformed the club are right, those who think he is bigger than the club are wrong. I think those that came on mid Arsene era are confused by what they support I support Arsenal and only Arsenal not Arsene and not individual players. Coaches,managers and players come and go this club has been huge before and will be after and as fans we should all want to see that at whatever expense

Its hot topic at the minute and it should be discussed but each side trying to convince the other that they are on the wrong side of thinking just won’t happen, so don’t take it personal when people disagree or challenge your point because when things come good the fan base unit again

Wenger has forever got my respect, that will remain when all is said and done he can stay or go whichever of the two it is as long as we aresuccessful

Ken Shamrock

That too, I mean the majority of the time we've lost over the last few years even in the big games with obvious exceptions we've played well. But this year in some of the games the whole team just looks uninterested, it's quite disheartening.

byrneg28

Hyzepher wrote: »

Arsenal were always considered a big club but it had little to do with results. Sure we have had periods of success along the way - generally very concentrated periods - put other clubs (prior to AW) could always trump us one way or another.

The media however always considered us one of the top clubs in England and the odd trophy along the way seemed to keep that notion going.

The success in the 30s was great but we never really had a period of dominance like LFC or ManU.

But we were always fairly consistent - especially in the cups.

I have heard some journalists over the weekend comment on AW's legacy saying that no other BIG club would allow a manager survive such a lack of success and that although AW has been good for the club they were rubbishing any notion of AW actually contributing to Arsenal's big club status - stating that the club was doing fine before he came.

Regardless of what you think of AW now, with all that's happened in the last few years, I think all Arsenal supporters would agree that the club would be in a worse state if AW never existed.

The real question is whether any other manager would have done a better job from 2005 'til now with the obvious restraints laid on my the club etc.

In the last 10 years since Arsenal last won the league only 3 clubs have won it.
In the last 10 years since Arsenal last won the league no club other than Arsenal has remained in the top 4.
In the last 10 years since Arsenal last won the league no other club has retained their manager
In the last 10 years since Arsenal last won the league no other club in the top tier has built a new stadium

If Chelsea win it this year it will have been 5 years since their last.
It took Man City 34 years to win one recently
Liverpool's last win was 1990


The point is that even with all this negativity and gloom and the worst start in a billion years, Arsenal fans have a lot to be thankful for. Yes we struggle to complete with the big spenders of the last few years but those days are over.

Have a look at those stats again - imagine what we can do now the financial restraints begin to loosen!

Also add to the fact, consistently losing our best players.

Liverpool lost Suarez - seriously underperforming

Dortmund - lost Gotze and Lewandowski (i'm not allowed comment on the bundesliga because I don't watch it, but from what I can gather bottom of the league after 13 is underperforming)

Spurs lost Bale - not performing


While we lost Henry, Fabregas, Nasri, v.Persie, we've still performed admirably

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

Wonder is that bit prophetic?

as I say - it may give hope to some...

Ken Shamrock

Soups123 wrote: »

This place is hard reading at the minute, those not supportingWenger are being called out for stats, proof and in mass being accused of notappreciating what Arsene has done for this club. Demand whatever stats and proof you need butaside from all that our team is performing poorly at a very worryinglevel. Injuries aside the same issuesare being repeated year on year be it transfer, tactics, fitness and playerconfidence. As for the holding up thebuilding of a stadium as a defence, of course it is and it excuses Arsenal notwinning the PL/CL in that time, it doesn’t excuse the lack of trophyaccumulation from cups though or the shockingly poor record against big teamsor the continuous closing of windows without key areas being strengthened.

Those on the ‘would like to see change’ side, would like tosee that, have we reached new level of frustrations? Of Course, has thatresulted in more exaggerated posts? Of course it has, I think the era you beganto follow Arsenal plays a part, those who think he transformed the club areright, those who think he is bigger than the club are wrong. I think those that came on mid Arsene era areconfused by what they support I support Arsenal and only Arsenal not Arsene andnot individual players. Coaches,managers and players come and go this club has been huge before and will beafter and as fans we should all want to see that at whatever expense.

Its hot topic at the minute and it should be discussed buteach side trying to convince the other that they are on the wrong side ofthinking just won’t happen, so don’t take it personal when people disagree orchallenge your point because when things come good the fan base unit again.



Wenger has forever got my respect, that will remain when allis said and done he can stay or go whichever of the two it is as long as we aresuccessful

To be fair Soups it was quite difficult to read that post :pac: