Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

tayto lover

efb wrote: »

I don't read it as any praise for Wenger

If I accuse him of changing our defensive set-up for the worse I'm hardly going to praise him for it.

TUBBY

efb wrote: »

Not Mata

we tried to sign him too.....

efb

TUBBY wrote: »

we tried to sign him too.....

Really?

efb

Where do I do that- I just said I thibk Giroud is attractive. I don't say it about many players

efb

And yes I would. Plenty here say it about sportspeople I don't see any issue with it- post gone

gosplan

tayto lover wrote: »

So why did he change from big strong defenders to weak timid ones?

IMO he lost it in project youth. That dogged tough experienced spine was replaced by youth team players.

At that time, he lost the backbone of Arsenal and we've never found it again.

No-one's been teaching players how to defend or guiding the young defenders through their formative years for a decade nearly.

Being a young player like Cole and taking the field alongside Seaman, Adams, Campbell, Lauren is very different from being Bellerin the other night.

I think just about the time Wenger started believing his own hype, the Premiership became a lot tougher. Unfortunately he had put in place his plans to build a defence on Silvestre, Cygan and Djourou.

When you lose something like that you can't just find it again.

But best solution is to buy the most expensive 25-28 year old defenders you can find and build it back up over the next 5 years.

More than anywhere else, Wenger needs to stop trying to develop defenders and buy them as te finished product.

wonga77

Carragher on Mert the last day against Stoke

"You're in a game away at Stoke in a tough venue - let your players around you know you're not going to accept what's going on. This is your captain on the day. We talk about leadership, character - like Wenger always talks about after the game. He's abandoned ship, he's left them on their own and that is not acceptable for a player of that quality and experience. He's abandoned ship. It's just not acceptable."

Harsh but true, you could apply that to a few of our players this year

wandatowell

Can't wait for when an English or Liverpool player has a nightmare of a game and we'll see if Carragher will be as scathing.

He's not wrong but I doubt he'd be as harsh a tone on one of his own.

Ed Winchester

wandatowell wrote: »

Can't wait for when an English or Liverpool player has a nightmare of a game and we'll see if Carragher will be as scathing.

He's not wrong but I doubt he'd be as harsh a tone on one of his own.

To be fair, he ripped into Liverpool after a recent defeat. Crystal Palace i think it was.

Ken Shamrock

gosplan wrote: »

Whatever.

Show a little respect to the rest of us ffs.

We ALL took the other meaning from your post.

Yeah, cause we're apologists.

Respect? He did nothing wrong? You and a few others had a go at him to deflect from the actual point, everyone in here knows how good wenger was and we all loved him for it nobody has ever said anything different.

gosplan wrote: »

Wow Bob, you've outdone yourself.

Fair play.

Meanwhile, everyone on planet earth sees that the most important thing right now is taking this fragile little run of victories and building on it.

That is not the same thing as resting our best goalscorer and only real box to box midfielder against a team in 2nd when we've just scraped our first win in three against a really poor team.

Additionally, the thing that's really obvious to everyone here is that if Sanchez was rested and the game goalless, you'd be leading the Wenger out charge.

I'm all for debate but your posts are nonsensical and show very little understanding of football.

Respect is a two way street, practice what you preach and all that.

The_Kew_Tour

What have ye made of Welbeck so far this season?

Good enough for ye?

Ken Shamrock

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What have ye made of Welbeck so far this season?

Good enough for ye?

Nah not for me personally. Not as a lone striker. Great workrate decent speed good stamina works for the team passing is good, positioning is ok decent in the air, cannot finis for sh1t!! We need a finsher, a goal scorer not another worker or assister we have sanchez walcott ozil and giroud for that we need goals and Welbeck can't give them to us. Just my opinion.

RedemptionZ

Assuming a reasonable budget was given what defenders would people like to see Arsenal bring in? I see a few names being thrown around but a whole new back 4 is needed imo(Kos is good enough but allowing for injuries)

K4t

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Nah not for me personally. Not as a lone striker. Great workrate decent speed good stamina works for the team passing is good, positioning is ok decent in the air, cannot finis for sh1t!! We need a finsher, a goal scorer not another worker or assister we have sanchez walcott ozil and giroud for that we need goals and Welbeck can't give them to us. Just my opinion.

It's not as if he's missed a load of chances, he's been feeding off mostly scraps and been let down by what most people are now realising is a poorly performing midfield. He has 6 goals and 2 assists, which while admittedly isn't brilliant, it's not bad for a young striker still settling in to a new club. At least give him until after Christmas before making a final judgement.

For what it's worth, if Welbeck had been on the pitch from the start against Stoke, I don't see Arsenal being 3-0 down at half time. It wasn't a coincidence that him coming on at half time changed the shape of the game.

kevinroche3333

Wenger In? Wenger Out?

Worth a read: http://www.7amkickoff.com/2014/footballistically-speaking-call-him-sir/

Ed Winchester

kevinroche3333 wrote: »

Wenger In? Wenger Out?

Worth a read: http://www.7amkickoff.com/2014/footballistically-speaking-call-him-sir/

Excellent piece.

I think I'm being pretty much vindicated with what I said before the season. Hopefully I'm still proven to be wrong but it's not looking likely.

One thing I know I won't be shown to be wrong about though, last season we could've got van Gaal in. That can't happen now. He's showing why I wanted him, and now I don't know who we could get in. Look at what he did tonight while his team was apparently getting destroyed.

Ed Winchester

Deleted User wrote: »

I think I'm being pretty much vindicated with what I said before the season. Hopefully I'm still proven to be wrong but it's not looking likely.

One thing I know I won't be shown to be wrong about though, last season we could've got van Gaal in. That can't happen now. He's showing why I wanted him, and now I don't know who we could get in. Look at what he did tonight while his team was apparently getting destroyed.

They're five points ahead of us. Not walking away with the league.

AND he spent about 200million last summer.

Ed Winchester

Ed Winchester wrote: »

They're five points ahead of us. Not walking away with the league.

5 wins in a row. Di Maria, RvP, Rooney, Falcao, Mata. It's not too bad like.

AND he spent about 200million last summer.

Which summer? Him? Or the club? Or the club he was at before? Or are you being a little bit silly?

Ed Winchester

Deleted User wrote: »

5 wins in a row. Di Maria, RvP, Rooney, Falcao, Mata. It's not too bad like.


Which summer? Him? Or the club? Or the club he was at before? Or are you being a little bit silly?

They're on a good run. They were also on an abysmal run not too long ago.

Last summer. United spent about 200 million. Do you not remember?? Any club who outlays that kind of money in one window should be top of the league IMO.

Ed Winchester

Ed Winchester wrote: »

They're on a good run. They were also on an abysmal run not too long ago.

Last summer. United spent about 200 million. Do you not remember?? Any club who outlays that kind of money in one window should be top of the league IMO.

Put a year after the "summer" bit. :P

Yeah they didn't start great, that was after a year of Moyes and even worse injuries in defense than we had. Along with 2-3 years of not having a midfield. United aren't in the title hunt but they'll push on nicely this year and are gonna finish 3rd as things are.

Ed Winchester

Deleted User wrote: »

Put a year after the "summer" bit. :P

Yeah they didn't start great, that was after a year of Moyes and even worse injuries in defense than we had. Along with 2-3 years of not having a midfield. United aren't in the title hunt but they'll push on nicely this year and are gonna finish 3rd as things are.

Should LVG not have them in the title hunt after that kind of spending?

gosplan

Deleted User wrote: »

Put a year after the "summer" bit. :P

Yeah they didn't start great, that was after a year of Moyes and even worse injuries in defense than we had. Along with 2-3 years of not having a midfield. United aren't in the title hunt but they'll push on nicely this year and are gonna finish 3rd as things are.

Interesting point on arseblog yesterday.

How much do you trust our board?

If we had signed Moyes, would they have sacked him? Would they have thrown 200 million into it?

gosplan

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Respect? He did nothing wrong? You and a few others had a go at him to deflect from the actual point, everyone in here knows how good wenger was and we all loved him for it nobody has ever said anything different.



Respect is a two way street, practice what you preach and all that.

Great, someone else describing our reasons for posting.

Why are some people actively trying to get into arguments?

'You're deflecting, you're deflecting'

You'll find I've given my thoughts on his point.

Ed Winchester

Ed Winchester wrote: »

Should LVG not have them in the title hunt after that kind of spending?

What kind of spending? I'm still wondering what the 200 million is referring to.

gosplan wrote: »

Interesting point on arseblog yesterday.

How much do you trust our board?

If we had signed Moyes, would they have sacked him? Would they have thrown 200 million into it?

Arguments are fun. And no, I don't support the board.

Ed Winchester

Deleted User wrote: »

What kind of spending? I'm still wondering what the 200 million is referring to.

Arguments are fun. And no, I don't support the board.

Rojo, Herrera, Shaw, Di Maria, Blind. Maybe its not 200mill but its the best part of it.

That kind of spending. Do you always need everything spelled out for you or are you just being difficult for the craic?

bad2dabone

Van gaal is showing absolutely nothing so far that makes me jealous of his management.

Ken Shamrock

K4t wrote: »

It's not as if he's missed a load of chances, he's been feeding off mostly scraps and been let down by what most people are now realising is a poorly performing midfield. He has 6 goals and 2 assists, which while admittedly isn't brilliant, it's not bad for a young striker still settling in to a new club. At least give him until after Christmas before making a final judgement.

For what it's worth, if Welbeck had been on the pitch from the start against Stoke, I don't see Arsenal being 3-0 down at half time. It wasn't a coincidence that him coming on at half time changed the shape of the game.

Really!? Do you even watch Arsenal matches? (Not in a condescending way just generally want to know) he has missed a bucket full of chances...at least 1 or 2 great chances every game. His finishing is dismal. He's got 3 goals in 12 PL games. That for a striker at Arsenal is simply not good enough, I'll give him till after xmas hell i'll give him until the summer, i was asked my opinion of him right now and I gave it.

It's all speculation really nobody knows what way a game would have panned out had this or that happened. Of course him coming on for a RB changed the shape of the game. He offers something different up front but evidently it's not goals.

Nemeses2050

Some one praising Van gaal and United's battling qualities...

United were muck last night and Southampton failed to take their chances like we did...they got lucky with their 1st goal same as against....Even Van Gaal and commentators/Man U supporters on Beep admitted united were lucky to be even in the game...

As far as Van Gaal is concerned I haven't seen his team storming the league, if anything United have struggled in so many games, it's the quality of some their players (traitor RVP, Maria which is carrying them thru).... the other side is always greener....

Jeez I know We're struggling and I accept Wenger has to take a lot of blame for not buying cover and all that tactical nous and Sh**e, but I don't really get this hyperbole of Wenger this Wenger that ... without him we wouldn't be in this position...He's changed Arsenal for good and the reason he tried to develop players is he had to sell his star players and he couldn't afford to buy finished products because of stadium constraints, how hard is it to fathom that ?...And he did develop great players only for them not reciprocating the kind of loyalty Wenger showed towards them...

PS: As someone pointed yesterday We're only 7 points worse off than previous season which was our best start in ages...

Ken Shamrock

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

Some one praising Van gaal and United's battling qualities...

United were muck last night and Southampton failed to take their chances like we did...they got lucky with their 1st goal same as against....Even Van Gaal and commentators/Man U supporters on Beep admitted united were lucky to be even in the game...

As far as Van Gaal is concerned I haven't seen his team storming the league, if anything United have struggled in so many games, it's the quality of some their players (traitor RVP, Maria which is carrying them thru).... the other side is always greener....

Jeez I know We're struggling and I accept Wenger has to take a lot of blame for not buying cover and all that tactical nous and Sh**e, but I don't really get this hyperbole of Wenger this Wenger that ... without him we wouldn't be in this position...He's changed Arsenal for good and the reason he tried to develop players is he had to sell his star players and he couldn't afford to buy finished products because of stadium constraints, how hard is it to fathom that ?...And he did develop great players only for them not reciprocating the kind of loyalty Wenger showed towards them...

PS: As someone pointed yesterday We're only 7 points worse off than previous season which was our best start in ages...

Em what? How does someone praising LVG turn into Wenger this and Wenger that? Nobody mentioned Wenger other than you? We are all aware of his past...

Think the point Button is making is that LVG has come in and took over a far inferior team to ours and now has them in 3rd place after beating us and doing better than us and will more than likely finish higher than us.

Colonialboy

bad2dabone wrote: »

Van gaal is showing absolutely nothing so far that makes me jealous of his management.

I disagree I think Van Gaal did one thing i liked.
Utd were terrible , nothing to fear there and Southampton should have won the game.
but Van Gaal wasnt afraid to make a change. 36th minute at 1-1 he took off a defender who he felt wasnt up to it...
Maybe if Arsene had made a change on Saturday on the 36th minute insted of hiding in the dugout we wouldnt have been down 3-0 at half time.

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Em what? How does someone praising LVG turn into Wenger this and Wenger that? Nobody mentioned Wenger other than you? We are all aware of his past...

Think the point Button is making is that LVG has come in and took over a far inferior team to ours and now has them in 3rd place after beating us and doing better than us and will more than likely finish higher than us.

Expand please !

Nemeses2050

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Em what? How does someone praising LVG turn into Wenger this and Wenger that? Nobody mentioned Wenger other than you? We are all aware of his past...

Think the point Button is making is that LVG has come in and took over a far inferior team to ours and now has them in 3rd place after beating us and doing better than us and will more than likely finish higher than us.

The last 10-20-30-4--50 pages all have been Wenger this, Wenger that. I'm not a blind Wenger supporter but the abuse he is getting even on this forum is embarrassing...

Inferior team? yeah right......more than 200 million spent and you call it inferior...Gary Neville thought United have been playing like a Pub team and they got away with murder...I'll rest my case.

Nemeses2050

Colonialboy wrote: »

I disagree I think Van Gaal did one thing i liked.
Utd were terrible , nothing to fear there and Southampton should have won the game.
but Van Gaal wasnt afraid to make a change. 36th minute at 1-1 he took off a defender who he felt wasnt up to it...
Maybe if Arsene had made a change on Saturday on the 36th minute insted of hiding in the dugout we wouldnt have been down 3-0 at half time.

He did took Bellerin off at half time...United got lucky that Southampton didn't punish them as we were punished and then United got a gift of a goal.

Colonialboy

I still think the season is there to salvage.
Its been happening for a few years and Ive spoken of it before, all the teams in the PL have upped the ante.
All the clubs have invested in the same areas sports science, coaches, facilities, sports psychologists, more foreign players, more foreign coaches... better tea ladies.... to some degree everyone is doing the same thing but still looking for a unique tweak to gain advantage. Just look at how well Swansea, Southampton and West ham are doing.

Maybe the top 4-6 havent gotten worse ... maybe the bottom 14-16 have gotten better, better organised, better coached and better at exposing weaknesses in the top 4 and able to sutain high tempo for a whole match and even a whole season.

I think there will be alot more upsets this year, I hope Arsenal can string a few results together and they will be back in the hunt.

gosplan

Deleted User wrote: »

Arguments are fun.

they're not though.

Discussions can be educational, thought provoking and enlightening.

I learn a lot from reading what you and Tatyo write.

Where it falls apart though is where people just argue.

One side says Wenger is the most successful manager in our history and completely ignore his shortcomings.

The other says says he's an idiot and ignore his strengths.

And it goes round and round. Now somebody's said that Man U are vastly inferior, despite possibly saying recently that that Giroud and Welbeck are not good strikers. You could discuss this but there's no point. Ultimately a lot of people here people are viewing this as 'Wenger in' vrs 'Wenger out' and will just argue it all day long. Rationality and logic does not come into it.

To be honest, I work with teenagers a lot and much of this stuff is about their level of discussion.

Colonialboy

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

He did took Bellerin off at half time...United got lucky that Southampton didn't punish them as we were punished and then United got a gift of a goal.

Thats the f'ing point.. Van Gaal had the balls todo it before HT.. he did it at 1-1 when he saw things deteriorating... Wenger waited until HT and it was too late it was 3-0 .!!!!!!

gosplan

Colonialboy wrote: »

I still think the season is there to salvage.
Its been happening for a few years and Ive spoken of it before, all the teams in the PL have upped the ante.
All the clubs have invested in the same areas sports science, coaches, facilities, sports psychologists, more foreign players, more foreign coaches... better tea ladies.... to some degree everyone is doing the same thing but still looking for a unique tweak to gain advantage. Just look at how well Swansea, Southampton and West ham are doing.

Maybe the top 4-6 havent gotten worse ... maybe the bottom 14-16 have gotten better, better organised, better coached and better at exposing weaknesses in the top 4 and able to sutain high tempo for a whole match and even a whole season.

I think there will be alot more upsets this year, I hope Arsenal can string a few results together and they will be back in the hunt.

I fully agree.

I think what happened this season was that Wenger assumed

1: the solidity of last year is my starting point
2: didn't use Verm much last season and got a lot out of a consistant back four so might be OK at the back

Then he set about changing the attack and bringing in Sanchez

And then it turned out his assumptions were wrong because the entire focal point of his team last time around Kos - Arteta - Rambo - Ozil - Giroud were all fooked or playing rubbish.

Wenger being Wenger though, his solution is to persist with these players.

it woudl be a mistake to think that this isn't Wenger's fault for taking the risk.

it would also be a mistake to think that these players can't come back stronger

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

Expand please !

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

The last 10-20-30-4--50 pages all have been Wenger this, Wenger that. I'm not a blind Wenger supporter but the abuse he is getting even on this forum is embarrassing...

Inferior team? yeah right......more than 200 million spent and you call it inferior...Gary Neville thought United have been playing like a Pub team and they got away with murder...I'll rest my case.

Inferior team when he took over, the 200mill was spent when LVG was the manager not before. What did Moyes leave them with? Do you think Utd had a better squad than us in May?

You can't just say Utd have been playing sh1te i rest my case. Utd are ahead of us in the table and beat us at the Emirates what case are you resting?

Ken Shamrock

gosplan wrote: »

they're not though.

Discussions can be educational, thought provoking and enlightening.

I learn a lot from reading what you and Tatyo write.

Where it falls apart though is where people just argue.

One side says Wenger is the most successful manager in our history and completely ignore his shortcomings.

The other says says he's an idiot and ignore his strengths.

And it goes round and round. Now somebody's said that Man U are vastly inferior, despite possibly saying recently that that Giroud and Welbeck are not good strikers. You could discuss this but there's no point. Ultimately a lot of people here people are viewing this as 'Wenger in' vrs 'Wenger out' and will just argue it all day long. Rationality and logic does not come into it.

To be honest, I work with teenagers a lot and much of this stuff is about their level of discussion.

There's that respect you were talking about. There is no doubt that teenagers use this forum? You seem to be the only one looking to start argument here. Having indirect digs at me is pointless and is only going to provoke me.

Instead of dismissing what I say while putting words in my mouth why can't we just have a discussion? Do you think Utd had a better squad than Arsenal in May? If so why?

greendom

I certainly wouldn't have called the United Squad in May far inferior to ours It was worse no doubt but to call it far worse is over-egging the pudding.

Certainly not 200 million worse any way!

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't have called the United Squad in May far inferior to ours It was worse no doubt but to call it far worse is over-egging the pudding.

Certainly not 200 million worse any way!

Ok maybe he didn't take over a FAR inferior team but it was inferior none the less, why so petty? You knew the point I was making.

Nemeses2050

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Inferior team when he took over, the 200mill was spent when LVG was the manager not before. What did Moyes leave them with? Do you think Utd had a better squad than us in May?

You can't just say Utd have been playing sh1te i rest my case. Utd are ahead of us in the table and beat us at the Emirates what case are you resting?

United have been playing ****e and Van Gaal hasn't got clue to how to set up his team... I haven't got time to go thru every United game but if you listened to Ex-United players and their supporters they all agree.

"Manchester United play in such a way that they had no will or desire to attack and play football. They played like a lower-league side trying to close out a cup tie against a big team. How Manchester United are sitting in third place in the Premier League is beyond me"!

"It was a really enjoyable game. Have I seen Southampton play better? Yes. Did they dominate and deserve to win? Yes. Manchester United got out of jail with two individual pieces of brilliance from Robin van Persie."

"Neville was highly critical of United's performance on Sky Sports, saying they "got away with murder", and that this Sunday's game against Liverpool would be like watching "the Dog and Duck against the Red Lion".
"It was awful at times, it really was," Neville said. "United's passing was laughable, and when Van Gaal watches it back I'm sure they'll feel the same. United got away with murder tonight."

These are quotes of Ex-united players and commentators from BBC and et al...


sorry folks for turning this into a United debate....

greendom

Anyway United had a very soft opening set of fixtures and now seem to have luck as their main tactical strategy. That can't carry them through the season so let's see where we all are come May (apologies for the Wengerism but it definitely applies)

Ken Shamrock

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

United have been playing ****e and Van Gaal hasn't got clue to how to set up his team... I haven't got time to go thru every United game but if you listened to Ex-United players and their supporters they all agree.

"Manchester United play in such a way that they had no will or desire to attack and play football. They played like a lower-league side trying to close out a cup tie against a big team. How Manchester United are sitting in third place in the Premier League is beyond me"!

"It was a really enjoyable game. Have I seen Southampton play better? Yes. Did they dominate and deserve to win? Yes. Manchester United got out of jail with two individual pieces of brilliance from Robin van Persie."

"Neville was highly critical of United's performance on Sky Sports, saying they "got away with murder", and that this Sunday's game against Liverpool would be like watching "the Dog and Duck against the Red Lion".
"It was awful at times, it really was," Neville said. "United's passing was laughable, and when Van Gaal watches it back I'm sure they'll feel the same. United got away with murder tonight."

These are quotes of Ex-united players and commentators from BBC and et al...


sorry folks for turning this into a United debate....

Look I don't like LVG or his methods, I'm certainly not a UTD fan, I'm not going to disagree with any of those quotes, the fact of the matter is LVG is doing a better job than 17 other PL managers right now. (Technically speaking)

I have a feeling UTD will finish third this year and no matter what methods are used by LVG he will get the praise and UTD will do better than us. I hope I'm wrong, I don't like Mourinho either or Pellegrini I don't want one of them to take over Arsenal and spend 200m in a summer I hate that sh1t but yet there they are winning leagues while we sit in 4th.

Dayum

It doesn't matter how United are playing - they beat Arsenal and they will most probably beat Liverpool at the weekend - two supposed rivals for the four CL spots. They're sitting comfortably in 3rd and LVG will undoubtedly go back into the transfer window looking for more recruits.

Arsenal need to get their skates on and FAST.

ugsparky

I've read back through a few posts here and it's obvious that a lot of us Arsenal supporters are hurting at the moment. It's a shame because reading between the lines, at the very core of all the arguments/comments/bitching to a man we all want our club to do well and play good attacking football whilst defending as if their lives depended on it.

Stoke was everything that is good and bad about us - I felt sorry for the away supporters - but disgusted that some of the rent a gobs abused Arsene. Respect should be shown and standards maintained.

In all of this I'm confused. We had a model that was successful. It was based on a solid goalkeeper - a rock of a centre half partnered by a more mobile partner - a strong defensive midfielder who could move forward or back partnered by a sitting midfielder - a pivotal centre forward. A key player was our number 10 or a third attacking midfielder. Surely the templates for success would be our Premiership winning teams or our Invincibles. The Arsenal of today bears no resemblance to these teams - but I honestly believe there were players available who could have integrated into this structure.

We have never replaced Adams, Keown, Vieira, Bergkamp, Pires, Ljungberg, Henry. I know financial constraints prevented us from splashing the cash, but we have bought a lot of £10 - £15 million pound players that would have added up to the sum of a Goetze, Reus, Khedira, Alonso, Cahill, Kompany, Jagielka etc. The number of players we allowed slip through the net is alarming. We forever seem to be buying the players that the bigger clubs don't want.

I know we'll never see a Bergkamp or an Henry again, but my point is their style of play, their structure within the team seems to have been emulated with Ozil and Sanchez. Why then are we not doing the same in Midfield and at Centre Back ?

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

Anyway United had a very soft opening set of fixtures and now seem to have luck as their main tactical strategy. That can't carry them through the season so let's see where we all are come May (apologies for the Wengerism but it definitely applies)

No doubt it will be interesting to see how it all pans out. Luck is part of UTD's make up!

Nemeses2050

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Look I don't like LVG or his methods, I'm certainly not a UTD fan, I'm not going to disagree with any of those quotes, the fact of the matter is LVG is doing a better job than 17 other PL managers right now. (Technically speaking)

I have a feeling UTD will finish third this year and no matter what methods are used by LVG he will get the praise and UTD will do better than us. I hope I'm wrong, I don't like Mourinho either or Pellegrini I don't want one of them to take over Arsenal and spend 200m in a summer I hate that sh1t but yet there they are winning leagues while we sit in 4th.

I agree you're not United supporter and we all want Arsenal to do well...

but sometimes people comparing achievements of 10 games/half a season/a season to a Man who dedicated his career to one club riles me...that's why I brought LVG into the arguement and to be honest I don't think LVG has been great... this is a general observation

I just think once we get our majority of first 11 from last season we'll go on a run...we're not getting the rub of the green and as they say when you're down nothing goes in your favour.

Ken Shamrock

ugsparky wrote: »

I've read back through a few posts here and it's obvious that a lot of us Arsenal supporters are hurting at the moment. It's a shame because reading between the lines, at the very core of all the arguments/comments/bitching to a man we all want our club to do well and play good attacking football whilst defending as if their lives depended on it.

Stoke was everything that is good and bad about us - I felt sorry for the away supporters - but disgusted that some of the rent a gobs abused Arsene. Respect should be shown and standards maintained.

In all of this I'm confused. We had a model that was successful. It was based on a solid goalkeeper - a rock of a centre half partnered by a more mobile partner - a strong defensive midfielder who could move forward or back partnered by a sitting midfielder - a pivotal centre forward. A key player was our number 10 or a third attacking midfielder. Surely the templates for success would be our Premiership winning teams or our Invincibles. The Arsenal of today bears no resemblance to these teams - but I honestly believe there were players available who could have integrated into this structure.

We have never replaced Adams, Keown, Vieira, Bergkamp, Pires, Ljungberg, Henry. I know financial constraints prevented us from splashing the cash, but we have bought a lot of £10 - £15 million pound players that would have added up to the sum of a Goetze, Reus, Khedira, Alonso, Cahill, Kompany, Jagielka etc. The number of players we allowed slip through the net is alarming. We forever seem to be buying the players that the bigger clubs don't want.

I know we'll never see a Bergkamp or an Henry again, but my point is their style of play, their structure within the team seems to have been emulated with Ozil and Sanchez. Why then are we not doing the same in Midfield and at Centre Back ?

This gets lost in the mix. We all want the same thing. Excellent post.